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How does not starting Petty hurt the Jets?


RESNewYork
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I know I'm going to get slammed for starting this thread. I see the same arguments over and over and over in every thread but I can't wrap my head around it.  There is so much vitriol about fake fans, real fans, slamming and supporting the coaches and front office. 

How does not starting Petty hurt the Jets short term, long term? Is there really a scenario where the Jets don't bring in another QB prospect next year or free agent starter?

I'm going to throw this in here as well. Wouldn't a coach on the hot seat play the best QB to get a victory? 

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At some point you need to see what the young QB's can do. Now that the Oline has stabilized some and Petty and Hack have had a good 10 weeks of practice in Morton's system its time to make the move. I commend McCown for what he's done so far IMO he's the anti-Fitz a good guy who is competetive but all about team. I would definitely offer him a job as asst OC or asst QB coach for next year as he's been the perfect role model for our young QB's unlike the douchebag divisive rubik's cube solving Shaman Fitz. 

Also now that Chris Johnson has seen how this team has unified and been competent , I don't see how Bowles or Mcags are on the hot seat . At this point we're playing with house money let teh chips fly with the young guys.

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8 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

At some point you need to see what the young QB's can do. Now that the Oline has stabilized some and Petty and Hack have had a good 10 weeks of practice in Morton's system its time to make the move. I commend McCown for what he's done so far IMO he's the anti-Fitz a good guy who is competetive but all about team. I would definitely offer him a job as asst OC or asst QB coach for next year as he's been the perfect role model for our young QB's unlike the douchebag divisive rubik's cube solving Shaman Fitz. 

Also now that Chris Johnson has seen how this team has unified and been competent , I don't see how Bowles or Mcags are on the hot seat . At this point we're playing with house money let teh chips fly with the young guys.

Let's forget the winning culture argument for now. So if you were the head coach, just lost to the Patriots. You come in Monday, get in front of the team, and tell them we are starting Petty this week. We are playing with house money. I know it's week 6, we're 3 and 3, but now is the time to make a switch because we need to find out what Petty can do. 

Now I'm not saying that's how you would say it but you can see that's how it is going to come off. 

We're not at practice, in the locker room, but all the player quotes about McCown laud his leadership. Probably a good trait for a young team.

In the end, it doesn't hurt to not start Petty. Maybe we find out later this year, maybe we find out next season. He is not a complete unknown. And it will probably not affect the Jet's plan to bring in a prospect or free agent next season.

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

Let's forget the winning culture argument for now. So if you were the head coach, just lost to the Patriots. You come in Monday, get in front of the team, and tell them we are starting Petty this week. We are playing with house money. I know it's week 6, we're 3 and 3, but now is the time to make a switch because we need to find out what Petty can do. 

Now I'm not saying that's how you would say it but you can see that's how it is going to come off. 

We're not at practice, in the locker room, but all the player quotes about McCown laud his leadership. Probably a good trait for a young team.

In the end, it doesn't hurt to not start Petty. Maybe we find out later this year, maybe we find out next season. He is not a complete unknown. And it will probably not affect the Jet's plan to bring in a prospect or free agent next season.

With last year's team that would have been a big issue as there were clear factions on the team spearheaded by the starting QB and Vets. This year there are a ton of young players and first year Vets who seem to be buying in to the team concept. Plus the Qb seems to be a guy who will not let type of decision divide a team. A lot of these guys know they are building a future with this team and evaluation needs to be done to answer some pertinent questions.

Bowles has proven he's regained control of the team , the Oline seems to have solidified from the swinging gate it was in PS, IMO now is the time to start making these type of moves.  

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41 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

I know I'm going to get slammed for starting this thread. I see the same arguments over and over and over in every thread but I can't wrap my head around it.  There is so much vitriol about fake fans, real fans, slamming and supporting the coaches and front office. 

How does not starting Petty hurt the Jets short term, long term? Is there really a scenario where the Jets don't bring in another QB prospect next year or free agent starter?

I'm going to throw this in here as well. Wouldn't a coach on the hot seat play the best QB to get a victory? 

you won't get slammed.  the thing is most fans want to see petty or hack in simply because they want to know if either is going to start next season or if the jets have to draft a good qb prospect.  imo they have to start petty at some point.  that will probably sometime after they got 6 or 7 losses.  these guys all want a reason to keep playing hard and winning will keep them together.

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20 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

With last year's team that would have been a big issue as there were clear factions on the team spearheaded by the starting QB and Vets. This year there are a ton of young players and first year Vets who seem to be buying in to the team concept. Plus the Qb seems to be a guy who will not let type of decision divide a team. A lot of these guys know they are building a future with this team and evaluation needs to be done to answer some pertinent questions.

Bowles has proven he's regained control of the team , the Oline seems to have solidified from the swinging gate it was in PS, IMO now is the time to start making these type of moves.  

Fair point for fans of the team. But I don't think inside that locker room, they are preaching we're building something. The message from the player quotes is we're going to surprise. No one knows the team we have in here. They believe they're a winning team. They don't believe this is a re-build year. I would imagine a QB change would abruptly change that message.

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12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

In my opinion Hackenberg is a bust from what we've seen. So that leaves Petty an unproven untried rookie. McCown well he's serviceable but 38 not in the future plans. 

Lets see what Petty has so we going into the off season we either need to start over at the QB position or not.......

Your certainly not alone.  On the other hand I don't think I can say for certain what Hack can be, we've seen him in limited PS action behind a line that was in flux and yet again he's learning a new offense. I really would like to see him get an extended shot even more so than Petty , bottom line the only thing that matters is what the Jets brain trust think. 

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When the Jets are mathematically eliminated, you'll start to see Petty and Hack out there.  I suspect Petty's last chance at being on a NFL roster depends on how well he performs, b/c last year he couldn't even master the huddle, snap counts and signal calling.  The NFL is not a patient league for prospects that are that far off.

Hack is basically where Petty was last year.  On a trend that doesn't look promising at all, but which might turn around by some miracle.  Still he has another year or so before he really starts fighting for a job.

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If Bowles walked in and announced Petty was starting he'd get slammed by a large portion of the fan base, the local media, national media, and most importantly the team.  Even if McCown was playing poorly, which he isn't, there is no justification for benching him when the team is 3-3.  Unless you think this was supposed to be a SB contending roster.

This debate is starting to venture into the absurd.  Petty will play if and when the Jets are out of playoff contention.  Period. 

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

Fair point for fans of the team. But I don't think inside that locker room, they are preaching we're building something. The message from the player quotes is we're going to surprise. No one knows the team we have in here. They believe they're a winning team. They don't believe this is a re-build year. I would imagine a QB change would abruptly change that message.

Oh i agree they want to win, but most of them are young and can see a potential brighter future here unlike past incarnations of the Jets.

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Just now, Pac said:

If Bowles walked in and announced Petty was starting he'd get slammed by a large portion of the fan base, the local media, national media, and most importantly the team.  Even if McCown was playing poorly, which he isn't, there is no justification for benching him when the team is 3-3.  Unless you think this was supposed to be a SB contending roster.

This debate is starting to venture into the absurd.  Petty will play if and when the Jets are out of playoff contention.  Period. 

The Jets have a less than 2 percent chance at the playoffs. That was before the loss to the Pats. It’s now likely lower. They’re already out of contention. 

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13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

In my opinion Hackenberg is a bust from what we've seen. So that leaves Petty an unproven untried rookie. McCown well he's serviceable but 38 not in the future plans. 

Lets see what Petty has so we going into the off season we either need to start over at the QB position or not.......

 

13 minutes ago, rangerous said:

you won't get slammed.  the thing is most fans want to see petty or hack in simply because they want to know if either is going to start next season or if the jets have to draft a good qb prospect.  imo they have to start petty at some point.  that will probably sometime after they got 6 or 7 losses.  these guys all want a reason to keep playing hard and winning will keep them together.

Well good since I didn't start this thread to start an argument. I'm just trying to understand the motivation to the decisions made.

I don't see how starting Petty changes the off season. I feel it's pretty much guaranteed we are going to bring in a free agent or draft a prospect. 

Petty is not a rookie. If petty was starter material, above average QB, he would be playing. Because that would put him above McCown and into the starting role. I don't see how Bowles would not put in a better QB since winning games is most important. So you want to argue Bowles doesn't know anything about QB's. Well he has Jeremy Bates on the staff. a "QB guru" I'm sure if there was a consensus that Petty was a better QB than McCown he would be starting. And if he is not better than McCown, no matter what happens this season, we are going to bring in another QB

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2 minutes ago, Pac said:

If Bowles walked in and announced Petty was starting he'd get slammed by a large portion of the fan base, the local media, national media, and most importantly the team.  Even if McCown was playing poorly, which he isn't, there is no justification for benching him when the team is 3-3.  Unless you think this was supposed to be a SB contending roster.

This debate is starting to venture into the absurd.  Petty will play if and when the Jets are out of playoff contention.  Period. 

I just don't see that with this team. I think the team has bought in to what the coaches and FO are selling. If they rolled out Petty or Hack I feel the team goes along for the ride. 

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

 

Well good since I didn't start this thread to start an argument. I'm just trying to understand the motivation to the decisions made.

I don't see how starting Petty changes the off season. I feel it's pretty much guaranteed we are going to bring in a free agent or draft a prospect. 

Petty is not a rookie. If petty was starter material, above average QB, he would be playing. Because that would put him above McCown and into the starting role. I don't see how Bowles would not put in a better QB since winning games is most important. So you want to argue Bowles doesn't know anything about QB's. Well he has Jeremy Bates on the staff. a "QB guru" I'm sure if there was a consensus that Petty was a better QB than McCown he would be starting. And if he is not better than McCown, no matter what happens this season, we are going to bring in another QB

The difference is McCown is virtually another coach on the field, he's helped to transition the offensive role players and Oline into this new system. They needed this stabilization to start the year to build confidence and competence within this system. His job is done, and he's done a pretty good job of doing it . His skill set helped these players develop but his ceiling is limited , its time to see if we can raise the ceiling. It may not work , but the team will finally get a real analysis of where they stand at the position going forward. 

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10 minutes ago, Pac said:

If Bowles walked in and announced Petty was starting he'd get slammed by a large portion of the fan base, the local media, national media, and most importantly the team.  Even if McCown was playing poorly, which he isn't, there is no justification for benching him when the team is 3-3.  Unless you think this was supposed to be a SB contending roster.

This debate is starting to venture into the absurd.  Petty will play if and when the Jets are out of playoff contention.  Period. 

They've been out of playoff contention since they were 0-0.

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3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I just don't see that with this team. I think the team has bought in to what the coaches and FO are selling. If they rolled out Petty or Hack I feel the team goes along for the ride. 

Not a chance.  They've defied all the pundits predictions and other than the 2nd half against the Raiders have been in every game.  Benching McCown at this point is just plain stupid.  Not to mention it would put an obscene amount of pressure on Petty who realizes, like everyone else, that McCown has played well and is a great teammate.

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1 minute ago, Pac said:

Not a chance.  They've defied all the pundits predictions and other than the 2nd half against the Raiders have been in every game.  Benching McCown at this point is just plain stupid.  Not to mention it would put an obscene amount of pressure on Petty who realizes, like everyone else, that McCown has played well and is a great teammate.

It reminds of the situation where the Giants pulled a very popular Kurt Warner to see what Eli Manning could do.  Not saying either Petty or Hack are Eli but sometime the Jets have to find out and waiting till the last few games of the season is not enough time to fairly give it a real chance. 

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

It reminds of the situation where the Giants pulled a very popular Kurt Warner to see what Eli Manning could do.  Not saying either Petty or Hack are Eli but sometime the Jets have to find out and waiting till the last few games of the season is not enough time to fairly give it a real chance. 

You're usually more level-headed than this.  Did you just compare pulling an aging Warner to play the #1 pick in the draft, to pulling McCown for a guy who had 3 TDs, 7 picks, and a 60 QBR last year?

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32 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets have a less than 2 percent chance at the playoffs. That was before the loss to the Pats. It’s now likely lower. They’re already out of contention. 

Carl no wait Crazy Carl the NFL is wide open, on any given Sunday anything can happen haven't we seen more than a fair share of superstar injuries this season. its early Crazy Carl and with the way the Jets played this past Sunday they can beat any team in the NFL. 

You call yourself a Jets fan? 

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10 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're usually more level-headed than this.  Did you just compare pulling an aging Warner to play the #1 pick in the draft, to pulling McCown for a guy who had 3 TDs, 7 picks, and a 60 QBR last year?

Forget the #1 pick aspect of this , its the transition from an aging Vet with a young rebuilding team to a QB that team could potentially grow with . Had Eli bombed the Giants would have been crucified for pulling Warner , on the flipside the Jets will be lauded for moving on from McCown and again I have utmost respect for McCown , he's handled his job and role with so much more professionalism than Fitz . 

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9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Carl no wait Crazy Carl the NFL is wide open, on any given Sunday anything can happen haven't we seen more than a fair share of superstar injuries this season. its early Crazy Carl and with the way the Jets played this past Sunday they can beat any team in the NFL. 

You call yourself a Jets fan? 

I am a Jets fan. I’m also a realist. This team doesn’t have the talent on both sides of the ball to make the playoffs. It’s fairly obvious. There’s no running game, there’s no pass rush, and the QB play is far below average. What aspect of this team currently is playoff worthy?

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5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I am a Jets fan. I’m also a realist. This team doesn’t have the talent on both sides of the ball to make the playoffs. It’s fairly obvious. There’s no running game, there’s no pass rush, and the QB play is far below average. What aspect of this team currently is playoff worthy?

Powell and McGuire are a helluva running game. Agree no pass rush. McCown has been pretty decent. The NFL is wide open no team is separating themselves from the rest. 

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2 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

I know I'm going to get slammed for starting this thread. I see the same arguments over and over and over in every thread but I can't wrap my head around it.  There is so much vitriol about fake fans, real fans, slamming and supporting the coaches and front office. 

How does not starting Petty hurt the Jets short term, long term? Is there really a scenario where the Jets don't bring in another QB prospect next year or free agent starter?

I'm going to throw this in here as well. Wouldn't a coach on the hot seat play the best QB to get a victory? 

In theory, starting McCown over Hack or Petty "hurts" the development of Hack or Petty, because their is no crucible like that of live action.

In reality, the team sees Hack and Petty every day, they get reps in practice every day, and they are always being evaluated by our staff (whose evaluation skills can and should be questioned).

What it boils down to is fans want to see for themselves what Petty or Hack can do live.

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

In theory, starting McCown over Hack or Petty "hurts" the development of Hack or Petty, because their is no crucible like that of live action.

In reality, the team sees Hack and Petty every day, they get reps in practice every day, and they are always being evaluated by our staff (whose evaluation skills can and should be questioned).

What it boils down to is fans want to see for themselves what Petty or Hack can do live.

in reality, the team sees mccown get the lion's share of the snaps all week, every week since before the season started.. 

what it boils down to is bowles has decided mccown gives himself a better chance to keep his job, or find another one..

the future of the organization be damned..

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1 hour ago, Pac said:

Not a chance.  They've defied all the pundits predictions and other than the 2nd half against the Raiders have been in every game.  Benching McCown at this point is just plain stupid.  Not to mention it would put an obscene amount of pressure on Petty who realizes, like everyone else, that McCown has played well and is a great teammate.

What pressure? To play above average? They’re 3-3 and barely squeaked by the past couple weeks due to the QB play. This isn’t making a switch after they’re 5-1 or something. 

Either way, Bowles is sticking with Mccown. But if they lose the next two, he’ll start to feel the pressure to make a move. 

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18 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

in reality, the team sees mccown get the lion's share of the snaps all week, every week since before the season started.. 

what it boils down to is bowles has decided mccown gives himself a better chance to keep his job, or find another one..

the future of the organization be damned..

You really believe Bowles alone has decided that McCown is the best QB on the roster to win football games? With no input from anyone? 

Again when I wrote the original post, I asked how does this hurt the Jets future not starting Petty?

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44 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Because if you flash forward to the 2018 preseason and we never saw whether Petty was a keeper or not, we have to make an uninformed decision about him.  Are we keeping a guy who can't play?  Are we letting a guy go who might go on to be a quality QB somewhere else?  We know exactly what McCown is and we know he has no place on the 2018 roster.  So that is how not playing him hurts the team.  If we were legitimately in the playoff hunt, I get sticking with McCown.  Even at 3-3 if you think we are in the playoff hunt, you need to reevaluate your cognitive abilities.

Bryce Petty is signed for the 2018 season. The Jets are going to sign a free agent QB or draft a prospect this off season. Petty will have a chance to compete in the off season. The coaching staff will have the whole off season to make an informed decision about him. 

Like i said in the original post, if he was a starting QB right now, he would be starting over McCown. Not playing Petty will not change anything this off-season for the Jets and does not jeopardize the future of the team.

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2 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Can't you folks read the writing on the wall?  management simply doesn't believe Petty is starting QB material. This doesn't mean that he won't get the chance to start this year.... a 4 game loosing streak will put him in. Once he starts you'll realize that he's not "the guy "

This really seems to be the case. I think the staff is convinced that neither Petty or Hack is going to be the starter next year.

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14 minutes ago, Maxman said:

This really seems to be the case. I think the staff is convinced that neither Petty or Hack is going to be the starter next year.

Then management should be canned for keeping both on the roster....Petty especially.

Wading in the pool of 'well we'll see' if the information already exists that the solution at hand is a non-starter...in the NFL, is a loser.

Get someone in here that isn't a career 38 yo backup QB.

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