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### Jets \ Dolphins Game Thread ###

Maxman

By Maxman
in NY Jets Forum

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flgreen

flgreen

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It is a mirage.  Here is the truth:

Quarters
Att Comp Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int 1st 1st% 20+ Sck Rate
1st Quarter 35 27 77.1 258 7.4 30 1 0 13 37.1 4 4 106.6
2nd Quarter 55 40 72.7 454 8.3 69 3 2 19 34.5 6 7 100.1
3rd Quarter 46 33 71.7 256 5.6 21 1 1 15 32.6 1 3 83.2
4th Quarter 52 33 63.5 381 7.3 44 2 3 16 30.8 6 5 74.3
Overtime 6 3 50 25 4.2 13 0 0 1 16.7 0 0 61.1

Notice his stats get progressively worse as the game goes on.  By the 4th quarter, he is horrible.  We saw that today even more so and today's stats aren't included.

 

I'm not a stats guy at all, but that is really interesting 

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kdels62

kdels62

Posted
Posted
Just now, jeremy2020 said:

Sweet, 4 starters in 3 years with no QB! This is the best rebuild ever.

Every starter except Mo and Powell and Winters was acquired by Macc. There are legit spots to upgrade via FA and we have $80 million to do that. There are legit spots to upgrade early in a draft we have 3 picks to do that. And with all that we had 14 point leads against the Pats and the Dolphins, teams that are older with less cap space and less draft capital. 

It might not work out (because football isn’t linear) but we’re in a pretty good spot (In theory).

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flgreen

flgreen

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It is a mirage.  Here is the truth:

Quarters
Att Comp Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int 1st 1st% 20+ Sck Rate
1st Quarter 35 27 77.1 258 7.4 30 1 0 13 37.1 4 4 106.6
2nd Quarter 55 40 72.7 454 8.3 69 3 2 19 34.5 6 7 100.1
3rd Quarter 46 33 71.7 256 5.6 21 1 1 15 32.6 1 3 83.2
4th Quarter 52 33 63.5 381 7.3 44 2 3 16 30.8 6 5 74.3
Overtime 6 3 50 25 4.2 13 0 0 1 16.7 0 0 61.1

Notice his stats get progressively worse as the game goes on.  By the 4th quarter, he is horrible.  We saw that today even more so and today's stats aren't included.

 

I'm not a stats guy at all, but that is really interesting 

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Warfish

Warfish

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

It’s incredible how the jets always get the over the hill players to have their best season here. It’s frustrating 

The Jets fear taking a chance on younger QB's.  Perhaps it's institutional fear, given how many bust draft pick QB's we've had.  Who knows.

What we don't know today, due to the wonky relations in our organization, is this:  Is it Macc afraid to play (or make Bowles play) the kids, or is Bowles refusing the play the QB's Macc gets for him?

Because it's obvious old men can only get you so far.  

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flgreen

flgreen

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It is a mirage.  Here is the truth:

Quarters
Att Comp Pct Yds Avg Lng TD Int 1st 1st% 20+ Sck Rate
1st Quarter 35 27 77.1 258 7.4 30 1 0 13 37.1 4 4 106.6
2nd Quarter 55 40 72.7 454 8.3 69 3 2 19 34.5 6 7 100.1
3rd Quarter 46 33 71.7 256 5.6 21 1 1 15 32.6 1 3 83.2
4th Quarter 52 33 63.5 381 7.3 44 2 3 16 30.8 6 5 74.3
Overtime 6 3 50 25 4.2 13 0 0 1 16.7 0 0 61.1

Notice his stats get progressively worse as the game goes on.  By the 4th quarter, he is horrible.  We saw that today even more so and today's stats aren't included.

 

I'm not a stats guy at all, but that is really interesting 

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Rangers9

Rangers9

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

Hand Petty a 3-6 team, what will his next injury be?

I give Petty the month of December. It's his opportunity to win the job for next season. But if we lose the next 2 games maybe earlier. It's then up to him to play well. No excuses from his fans. Because this team isn't terrible. We played a good game one of our best until either because of Miami playing great or the Jets losing it in the 4th quarter we lost the game. Same for McCown who basically lost the game for the Jets. Look either we ran out of gas in the 4th quarter (it was 100 degrees on the field) or the team forgot they were supposed to be mad about the previous week. I'm going to the game next week and I'd love to go home happy. As for Miami it will be interesting to see if they can keep doing this. They did it last week vs the team we play next week. They had a good year last year under Gase and played over their heads. 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, usapaw said:

Really lame question dude. How can you prove anything when you can't get on the field until the season is a train wreck and everyone has quit on you? Last year he pulled all the starters and then put Petty in; nice.

It's only a lame question because you can't answer it and it proves your hypothesis is based on nothing but hope that two QBs who have never shown they can play, are actually good and just waiting for a good coach to come along and unleash their talent.  In other words, nothing more than wishful thinking.

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nycdan

nycdan

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I'm not a stats guy at all, but that is really interesting 

Here's another take.  Teams ranked by 4th quarter points scored per game.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/4th-quarter-points-per-game

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usapaw

usapaw

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, gEYno said:

It's only a lame question because you can't answer it and it proves your hypothesis is based on nothing but hope that two QBs who have never shown they can play, are actually good and just waiting for a good coach to come along and unleash their talent.  In other words, nothing more than wishful thinking.

He is a eight time loser Fitz was a close second. Your only argument is they don't play? Whatever sunshine.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, usapaw said:

He is a eight time loser Fitz was a close second. Your only argument is they don't play? Whatever sunshine.

So, your argument is the fact that they exist makes them better.  Sorry I don't traffic in hope and fantasy when evaluating players.

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Bugg

Bugg

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

FTR, LaGreca and Buttle keep saying “It’s not Todd Bowles out there throwing interceptions,” in case you’re wondering what  the position of Jets state-sponsored media is at 5:21 p.m. on October 21st, 2017.

Think they are both good guys. But they aren't rocking the boat and probably losing a really easy and well-paying gig. 

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usapaw

usapaw

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, gEYno said:

So, your argument is the fact that they exist makes them better.  Sorry I don't traffic in hope and fantasy when evaluating players.

So you think McCown is the answer then, correct?  Congratulations on your superior eval of Josh McCown. We should continue to play him  until there is absolutely no hope and the team has quit and then, and only then, throw in QB "X" and say "I told you so" . You are right, that is what the great teams do. There is, and always will be, next year.

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jetgreen13

jetgreen13

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Pac said:

Yes he's played well.

That's why the sharks in the media didn't even bother to ask Bowles in the PC if McCown is still the QB.  They realize the question right now is ridiculous.

or maybe the media has already seen this movie before?? 

maybe they know the only way bowles goes to petty before we are eliminated from the playoffs is if woody's brother tells him to, or else??

maybe you could explain to the board, how immediately benching a 38 year old JAG is ridiculous??

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maury77

maury77

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

It was a heartbreaking loss for sure. This team has more talent than you allude to but obviously not as much as is needed to be a winning team. They are playing alot of the young guys except for QB. This team is one of the youngest in the league. 

Our starting QB (who basically gave the game away with his late game INT) has tied the NFL record for QBs by being on 8 different rosters

Pro Football Focus last week rated our defense as #32 in the league. A few weeks prior, they rated our offensive line as bottom 5 in the league. PFF is not the bible, but you can't completely discount what they say. 

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Spoot-Face

Spoot-Face

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Here's another take.  Teams ranked by 4th quarter points scored per game.

And this is the team that put 17 unanswered points up on us in the 4th quarter.

Beautiful.

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ausman

ausman

Posted
Posted

The team shipped out all its veterans which means assumably that this is a rebuilding year.  I accept that starting McCown at the start of the season could be argued to be a wise move to give a young team some veteran leadership on the field.  But when that veteran starts making rookie mistakes — like taking inopportune sacks or throwing blind sideline passes deep inside his own territory in a tie game with seconds to play in regulation — is that veteran presence on the field an advantage any longer?  Time to start Petty, IMO.  Remember, it’s a rebuilding year.

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PS17

PS17

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Jetster said:

The Dolphins are the 2016 NY Jets. A bunch of free agent mercenaries that will come up short again in 2017. They are at the cap in spending, they have a fortune invested in Tannyhill & Suh. They came a bad pass, a sh*tload of penalties called against the Jets, from being swept by a group of youngsters led by a 38 year old QB & really not one super star on offense.

So, while I'm pissed they lost, not happy at all with Bowles pussyball coaching, these 2 teams aren't even in the same stratosphere when it comes to expectations. So you can gloat all you want that they lost it won't matter in the big picture. The Jets will end up in a position to draft a QB in 2018, they'll probably end up somewhere between 4-6 wins. You can't beat any team in the NFL with as pitiful a pass rush as the Jets showed in that 4th quarter. But they do play hard. I like some of the youngsters, it's the vets again like Skrine that need to go. Bowles leans WAY to much on vets, that I agree with but after these 2 losses, it's probably downhill from here & we're not far off of 8 losses, if we don't play Petty or Hack than? You gotta fire Bowles & give Morton the interim job.

Who is Tannyhill? 

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RevisIsland610

RevisIsland610

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Our starting QB (who basically gave the game away with his late game INT) has tied the NFL record for QBs by being on 8 different rosters

Pro Football Focus last week rated our defense as #32 in the league. A few weeks prior, they rated our offensive line as bottom 5 in the league. PFF is not the bible, but you can't completely discount what they say. 

My point was this team has some talent and is not as bad as people say. They have 3 wins and it could have just as easily been 5. They hung tough against new england and the got robbed by refs and they should have beat miami. Remember many experts were expecting this team to win one game and possibly go winless. This team is nowhere near that bad. 

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Spoot-Face

Spoot-Face

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Our starting QB (who basically gave the game away with his late game INT) has tied the NFL record for QBs by being on 8 different rosters

Pro Football Focus last week rated our defense as #32 in the league. A few weeks prior, they rated our offensive line as bottom 5 in the league. PFF is not the bible, but you can't completely discount what they say. 

PFF's stats are severely lacking in the "Leader of Men" category.

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southparkcpa

southparkcpa

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

My point was this team has some talent and is not as bad as people say. They have 3 wins and it could have just as easily been 5. They hung tough against new england and the got robbed by refs and they should have beat miami. Remember many experts were expecting this team to win one game and possibly go winless. This team is nowhere near that bad. 

That’s too easy.  Poorly coached, our journeyman QB has thrown picks where no reasonably seasoned QB would throw.  he should have been told....  NO passes.   We are what our record says we are....   with NO QB on the horizon. 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, usapaw said:

So you think McCown is the answer then, correct?  Congratulations on your superior eval of Josh McCown. We should continue to play him  until there is absolutely no hope and the team has quit and then, and only then, throw in QB "X" and say "I told you so" . You are right, that is what the great teams do. There is, and always will be, next year.

No - only in the dimmest of minds does acknowledging that Petty and Hack suck, mean you're pro-McCown.

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Spoot-Face

Spoot-Face

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

My point was this team has some talent and is not as bad as people say. They have 3 wins and it could have just as easily been 5. They hung tough against new england and the got robbed by refs and they should have beat miami. Remember many experts were expecting this team to win one game and possibly go winless. This team is nowhere near that bad. 

And it just as easily could have been 1. Our first game against Miami was the only game when our opponent had no business winning the game.

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bostonmajet

bostonmajet

Posted
Posted

There are three distinct questions about the game today:

1. Do the Jets have a core group, however small, to build a quality team around? I think the answer is yes, of course, some of the younger players are playing well. Will they make mistakes, even stupid mistakes, over the next few years, yes of course.

2. Is Mac the guy to rebuild this team? There are people arguing in both directions. IMO, the jury is still out. I don't personally care if neither Petty nor Hack work out; although I think he drafted Hack way too high, many people miss out on QBs even drafted in the 1st round (or at #1). Most of these gambles don't pay off. Still he has done some good and some bad.

3. Is Bowles the guy to coach this team moving forward? I have been on the fence for a while. The team plays with heart; and it mostly gets better every week. The problem is that Bowles himself doesn't seem to be progressing. Sitting on a lead after loosing that way last week and with your opponent winning that way last week is inexcusable IMO. Here is the real question: is there a chance that either Petty or Hack can be the one? If the answer is yes (or possibly) they must play these guys now and see what we have. The crap about not wanting the team to get into the habit of losing and giving the young WRs a chance to grow is just ridiculous as we have been loosing and Bowles/McCown covet the vets. How much experience are these guys getting? Clearly Anderson was frustrated with McCown's play and he missed a wide open RB last week at the end of the game. In my mind it is time to move on from Bowles; let's give Morton a chance - the O, even with McCown is playing pretty well.

Clearly I am frustrated today. Not so much with the loss, but the way we lost. This isn't down to which players we have, but how we use them. Going conservative when in the lead and then sitting by hoping for the end of the game to eek out the win. You don't wait until the other team has 17 unanswered points to start making your move. Last week we did the same against the Pats. Clearly Bowles, with nothing to loose this year, hasn't grasped the concept of putting away a team. People bash BB for running up the score, but this is what you have to do in today's game. With QB protection, holding, and PI calls, a team can score 2 or 3 touchdowns in a quarter. 20 years ago, however aggravating, you could sit on a 2 TD lead. Today you can't. If something is working for you, you continue to put up points until there is less than 5 minutes in the game. Playing 3 quarters isn't enough against a mediocre team, let alone a good one.

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jeremy2020

jeremy2020

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Every starter except Mo and Powell and Winters was acquired by Macc. There are legit spots to upgrade via FA and we have $80 million to do that. There are legit spots to upgrade early in a draft we have 3 picks to do that. And with all that we had 14 point leads against the Pats and the Dolphins, teams that are older with less cap space and less draft capital. 

It might not work out (because football isn’t linear) but we’re in a pretty good spot (In theory).

The Earth being flat is a theory too. Just because they're starters on a bad team doesn't mean they're worth keeping. Just because mac purged the roster to put "his guys" on it doesn't mean they're starter quality either.

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
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Posted
3 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

There are three distinct questions about the game today:

1. Do the Jets have a core group, however small, to build a quality team around? I think the answer is yes, of course, some of the younger players are playing well. Will they make mistakes, even stupid mistakes, over the next few years, yes of course.

2. Is Mac the guy to rebuild this team? There are people arguing in both directions. IMO, the jury is still out. I don't personally care if neither Petty nor Hack work out; although I think he drafted Hack way too high, many people miss out on QBs even drafted in the 1st round (or at #1). Most of these gambles don't pay off. Still he has done some good and some bad.

3. Is Bowles the guy to coach this team moving forward? I have been on the fence for a while. The team plays with heart; and it mostly gets better every week. The problem is that Bowles himself doesn't seem to be progressing. Sitting on a lead after loosing that way last week and with your opponent winning that way last week is inexcusable IMO. Here is the real question: is there a chance that either Petty or Hack can be the one? If the answer is yes (or possibly) they must play these guys now and see what we have. The crap about not wanting the team to get into the habit of losing and giving the young WRs a chance to grow is just ridiculous as we have been loosing and Bowles/McCown covet the vets. How much experience are these guys getting? Clearly Anderson was frustrated with McCown's play and he missed a wide open RB last week at the end of the game. In my mind it is time to move on from Bowles; let's give Morton a chance - the O, even with McCown is playing pretty well.

Clearly I am frustrated today. Not so much with the loss, but the way we lost. This isn't down to which players we have, but how we use them. Going conservative when in the lead and then sitting by hoping for the end of the game to eek out the win. You don't wait until the other team has 17 unanswered points to start making your move. Last week we did the same against the Pats. Clearly Bowles, with nothing to loose this year, hasn't grasped the concept of putting away a team. People bash BB for running up the score, but this is what you have to do in today's game. With QB protection, holding, and PI calls, a team can score 2 or 3 touchdowns in a quarter. 20 years ago, however aggravating, you could sit on a 2 TD lead. Today you can't. If something is working for you, you continue to put up points until there is less than 5 minutes in the game. Playing 3 quarters isn't enough against a mediocre team, let alone a good one.

I don't have anything to add but this is a really good post.

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