Short Term Pain, Long Term Gain

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

When is this fanbase going to understand the Jets are not rebuilding?   This team plays 4 young players.  4.  And none of them play a premium position.  This isn't a rebuild.  There is nothing to build on other than safeties who look ok but yet, the defense is still absolutely terrible despite all the resources dumped into it.  If this was an actual rebuild, than what they'd be building on is Leo/Lee/Adams and that would suck because WTF? 

 

 

It's the worst kind of sucking.  We're not sucking enough to get a top pick, and we're not sucking with young players getting tons of snaps. 

It's as if no one is on the same page on what direction the franchise is going in.  Funny how that's been the case since, oh, I dunno, when Parcells retired?

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the worst kind of sucking.  We're not sucking enough to get a top pick, and we're not sucking with young players getting tons of snaps. 

It's as if no one is on the same page on what direction the franchise is going in.  Funny how that's been the case since, oh, I dunno, when Parcells retired?

The majority of the team are young players. Only McCown and Forte are really old players. 

I already had this discussion with JiF. 

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, mkajet01 said:

It's petty time give him few games if he stinks then play hack if he's bad also then get rid of both of them & find a qb. McCown playing, serves no purpose, did u see robbie Anderson flip helmet in frustration being open downfield & McCown not throwing to him? McCown can't stretch field, did u see passes he was throwing follie floaters! He's lucky he didn't throw more interceptions

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 

Petty is absolute trash 

[ChuckkieB]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the worst kind of sucking.  We're not sucking enough to get a top pick, and we're not sucking with young players getting tons of snaps. 

It's as if no one is on the same page on what direction the franchise is going in.  Funny how that's been the case since, oh, I dunno, when Parcells retired?

You nailed it.  This is exactly what's currently happening.  There doesn't seem to be a concrete plan in place or smart people making decisions in the front office and on the field.  If Petty was starting instead of McCown, I guarantee that the Jets would be 1-6 at best. 

[UnitedWhofans]

7 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

You nailed it.  This is exactly what's currently happening.  There doesn't seem to be a concrete plan in place or smart people making decisions in the front office and on the field.  If Petty was starting instead of McCown, I guarantee that the Jets would be 1-6 at best. 

I want somebody to tell me outside of McCown and Forte, what old players are on this team?

[section314]

8 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

You nailed it.  This is exactly what's currently happening.  There doesn't seem to be a concrete plan in place or smart people making decisions in the front office and on the field.  If Petty was starting instead of McCown, I guarantee that the Jets would be 1-6 at best. 

In reality, would that be worse?

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, section314 said:

In reality, would that be worse?

On paper, no. In the living reality, **** yeah

[ChuckkieB]

Just now, section314 said:

In reality, would that be worse?

Absolutely.  McCown has actually played very well this year, way better than anyone expected. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

In reality, would that be worse?

For the future of the franchise, of course not.  Losing with a young QB, and getting a nice draft pick out of the deal, would have been the 2nd best possible situation behind WINNING with the young QB. 

Instead, we'll end up with the 5th-6th pick, with the majority of the season watching a 38-year old under center.  It's no-mans lands.

The Colts, Browns, 49ers and Giants are in far better situations than we are at the moment. 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

For the future of the franchise, of course not.  Losing with a young QB, and getting a nice draft pick out of the deal, would have been the 2nd best possible situation behind WINNING with the young QB. 

Instead, we'll end up with the 5th-6th pick, with the majority of the season watching a 38-year old under center.  It's no-mans lands.

The Colts, Browns, 49ers and Giants are in far better situations than we are at the moment. 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

When is this fanbase going to understand the Jets are not rebuilding?   This team plays 4 young players.  4.  And none of them play a premium position.  This isn't a rebuild.  There is nothing to build on other than safeties who look ok but yet, the defense is still absolutely terrible despite all the resources dumped into it.  If this was an actual rebuild, than what they'd be building on is Leo/Lee/Adams and that would suck because WTF? 

 

 

4 young players? you got that on just the oline.  the offense has asj, anderson, winters, shell/qvale as starters.  the defense hase maye, adams, leo, jenkins.  and on specials there's edwards and stewart.  that's 11 or 12.   i see your point.  they need to play stewart more as a receiver and get hansen involved.  on defense they could go with burriss or coleman.  and , of course, they could sit mccown and start petty or hack.

[UnitedWhofans]

23 minutes ago, rangerous said:

4 young players? you got that on just the oline.  the offense has asj, anderson, winters, shell/qvale as starters.  the defense hase maye, adams, leo, jenkins.  and on specials there's edwards and stewart.  that's 11 or 12.   i see your point.  they need to play stewart more as a receiver and get hansen involved.  on defense they could go with burriss or coleman.  and , of course, they could sit mccown and start petty or hack.

We need to have a definition of what "young" means. To me it means 30 and under. 

[BurnleyJet]

6 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

We need to have a definition of what "young" means. To me it means 30 and under. 

Not it pro sports it isn't.

[Larz]

blown leads come from lack of a running game and pass rush

just add that to the list of needs, lol

[joewilly12]

6 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

Absolutely.  McCown has actually played very well this year, way better than anyone expected. 

Agree to disagree. He isn't winning anything here just keeping us interested. 

[the Claw]

We need to have a definition of what "young" means. To me it means 30 and under. 

Rather than young or old, how many years does a player need to play to be considered a “veteran?” 3+ years? 5+ years?

Young or old can vary by position. A 28 y/o RB can be considered old, while a 28 y/o CB can be in their prime.

By your definition, the Jets are a young team; however, that definition doesn’t really give you the full picture of young vs old team. As far as experience, this is a fairly veteran (using

[fusionCA]

7 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

We need to have a definition of what "young" means. To me it means 30 and under. 

you need some  help 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Great read #KRL

You always provide great insight into player performance and development (good articles) but I think this article takes the next step with some editorial passion, not trolling or green glasses but simple truth - nice work!

I think there are a few of us who have had the "sting" of losses removed and it feels fine...

Interested to hear your pick for QB next year

[RESNewYork]

36 minutes ago, the Claw said:

Rather than young or old, how many years does a player need to play to be considered a “veteran?” 3+ years? 5+ years?

Young or old can vary by position. A 28 y/o RB can be considered old, while a 28 y/o CB can be in their prime.

By your definition, the Jets are a young team; however, that definition doesn’t really give you the full picture of young vs old team. As far as experience, this is a fairly veteran (using

average age NFL roster. According to this, Jets are 6th youngest.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2017-edition/

 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Agree to disagree. He isn't winning anything here just keeping us interested. 

I haven’t been more disinterested in a team since they kept trotting Geno out there. There’s nothing to be gained from having McCown play QB. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, JiF said:

Starting Josh McCown, playing Forte 60% of the snaps, barely giving the ball to Powell and McGuire, throwing to Kearse/Kerley/ASJ and having a veteran led OL, is not my definition of turning the roster over to young players but I digress because your point, is rock solid.  There are only 2 players over 30 which is so good when you think about it.

But you don't subscribe to the narrow view of who's a veteran and who's not, shared by no other football fans in the country. A player who enters the league at 20-22 years old, is on his 2nd or 3rd NFL contract, and has been a starter for years? Nope, not a veteran. Because he wasn't in the military.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just re-reading the first half of the thread title:

Short Term Pain. This is short term pain that we have been experiencing. 

[Jetsbb]

"But this team needs a long term answer at QB and every loss (even though I don't root
for them) improves our draft position."

I don't get it the Browns and 49ers will pick a QB first 2 picks and wont trade out. Jets are out of the franchise QB market for the foreseeable future. Now only reason to root for loosing is so Bowles is fired which is unlikely with Rah Rah dork Christopher Johnson making the decision.

[BCJet]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

For the future of the franchise, of course not.  Losing with a young QB, and getting a nice draft pick out of the deal, would have been the 2nd best possible situation behind WINNING with the young QB. 

Instead, we'll end up with the 5th-6th pick, with the majority of the season watching a 38-year old under center.  It's no-mans lands.

The Colts, Browns, 49ers and Giants are in far better situations than we are at the moment. 

Insane take - the Giants have an aging roster, no offensive line, no RB, and are about to have to pay a diva WR who is a cancer in the locker room.

The browns are in a better spot then the jets?  No rebuttal necessary on that one.

Put Kirk Cousins on the Jets next year with 3 top 60 picks and see what this team looks like then.

[Stark]

22 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

We need to have a definition of what "young" means. To me it means 30 and under. 

To me young is 23-28

29-33 fringe of losing physical abilities for most players

34+ i would consider old, and you have to evaluate players on an individual basis at this point. Some can still play well, others play okay depending on roll.

 

 

[Beerfish]

23 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If you turned over the whole roster, including QB, you become the 2017 Cleveland Browns. Who wants to be that?

PLus Petty and HAckenberg had EVERY opportunity to seize the job in preseason

I think the bolded part is 100% not true in any way at all.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

I think the bolded part is 100% not true in any way at all.

Who got the most snaps in the preseason?

[Beerfish]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Who got the most snaps in the preseason?

Macown got almost all snaps for the early part of camp and just about all 1st team snap, petty got almost nothing, hack got in between.  Late in camp once the decisions had been made they fed the other guys more snaps.

The decision was made before camp, it was not an equal battle at all. 

McCown was treated like the incumbent from day one.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Macown got almost all snaps for the early part of camp and just about all 1st team snap, petty got almost nothing, hack got in between.  Late in camp once the decisions had been made they fed the other guys more snaps.

The decision was made before camp, it was not an equal battle at all. 

McCown was treated like the incumbent from day one.

Nope, otherwise he would not have seen a snap in the 4th game. McCown got one drive of game action. And yet he was the incumbent? Bullsh*t.

I am convinced that if either Petty or Hackenberg, stepped up, like Russell Wilson did, they would have been the starter. In fact if Petty hadn't gotten hurt, there would have been a serious debate

[MDL_JET]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think the bolded part is 100% not true in any way at all.

Hack had his shot and failed, pretty badly at that. Petty on the other, barely got a shot. 

[HighPitch]

On 10/23/2017 at 11:14 AM, JiF said:

You are correct, James Carpenter, Brian Winters, Brent Qvale and Wesley Johnson are all brand new to the NFL.  Once again, Whofans, thank you for dropping knowledge and setting sh*t straight around here.  Much respect. 

Yea all of a sudden whofan is the voice of reason wtf

[nycdan]

And Petty looked really good with the snaps he got.  He did get hurt, but I truly believe that the fix was already in and he was not in the running no matter what he did.  He never got a single snap with the first unit.  To me, the worst thing the Jets can do this year is skip over Petty in a few weeks to give Hack another undeserved shot.  Which means there is a very high probability that's exactly what they'll do.  

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

And Petty looked really good with the snaps he got.  He did get hurt, but I truly believe that the fix was already in and he was not in the running no matter what he did.  He never got a single snap with the first unit.  To me, the worst thing the Jets can do this year is skip over Petty in a few weeks to give Hack another undeserved shot.  Which means there is a very high probability that's exactly what they'll do.  

I think if Petty had not gotten hurt, the media and fan pressure would have gotten to them

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I think if Petty had not gotten hurt, the media and fan pressure would have gotten to them

Maybe.  I think Hack would have still gotten into the last preseason game before Petty.  One thing Bowles has not shown is any predilection to adapt to changing conditions.  He was quoted as saying they saw enough from Petty at the end of 2016 and they needed to give Hack more time in this preseason to evaluate both fairly.  Does that sound rational to anyone?  Certainly doesn't sound like a 'fair and open' competition.  Bowles seems to enjoy stonewalling the press and hasn't shown any awareness that fans matter or even exist, which is only fine if you are winning a lot of games.

Here's the true test.  If McCown sucks so bad in an upcoming that Bowles has to insert Petty (and I think he'd have to commit epic atrocities at that) and Petty comes in and is successful, will Bowles make the switch stick or will he go right back to McCown the following week.  If Petty gets in because McCown gets hurt, will Bowles acknowledge that Petty is the starter the following week or will he give his usual "we'll see" response about Petty vs. Hack.  

 

[August]

It wasn't even that long ago. McCown got the majority of the snaps in mini camp and training camp. Then in the preseason they decided to give Hackenberg every opportunity to impress the coaches and win the starting job, Petty's reps increased as well, Hackenberg looked awful against 1st team defenses, while Petty only played against 2/3 defenses and looked good. The plan was always for McCown to start with the hopes of Hackenberg showing enough to win the job.