How bad are Bowles & Rogers?

[Bocajetfan]

Was willing to give Bowles the opportunity to show he has grown into the position. He has shown nothing his clock management is poor, the ability to adjust in game is nonexistent. If there is someone on staff that Mac is comfortable with as an interim he needs to be cut loose ASAP. Worse case at the final whistle of the last game a press release needs to be issued. Black Monday is too late.

[BigO]

On 10/26/2017 at 10:41 PM, kevinc855 said:

Dolphins also were making some great plays down the stretch. Some weeks you have it some weeks you dont. I think Bowles can be a little stubborn sometimes but the jets are relevant still in late October in a year everyone had them winning 2 games tops. I’m not saying retain or fire him, let’s see how the season plays out. 

The use of the word relevant in your post is irrelevant. So they’ve won 3 thus far, 2 of which they should easily have lost. And the remainder of the schedule becomes increasingly difficult. As the season progresses, teams play harder.  Jets are 3-4 and are lucky not to be 1-6.  At best they end up at 5-11 and screw up any chance at getting a top 5 pick.  The relevance here is, these 3-5 wins, are totally irrelevant. 

[jack48]

On 10/26/2017 at 10:41 PM, kevinc855 said:

Dolphins also were making some great plays down the stretch. Some weeks you have it some weeks you dont. I think Bowles can be a little stubborn sometimes but the jets are relevant still in late October in a year everyone had them winning 2 games tops. I’m not saying retain or fire him, let’s see how the season plays out. 

 

They have not yet begun to lose!  Relevant? I disagree.

[jack48]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:20 AM, dbatesman said:

The Jets did it to Miami the year before.

McCown is starting to show his Fitz. Starting to throw tht one really stupid pick a game 

[Larz]

On 10/26/2017 at 10:36 PM, Smashmouth said:

 the league has video now 

everybody knows what everybody else is running

there are no magical exotic formations 

buddy ryan started tinkering with the 46 defense in the 60's, perfected it in the 80s and you still see teams run it today

that argument drives me nuts, lol

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, BigO said:

The use of the word relevant in your post is irrelevant. So they’ve won 3 thus far, 2 of which they should easily have lost. And the remainder of the schedule becomes increasingly difficult. As the season progresses, teams play harder.  Jets are 3-4 and are lucky not to be 1-6.  At best they end up at 5-11 and screw up any chance at getting a top 5 pick.  The relevance here is, these 3-5 wins, are totally irrelevant. 

Many would argue the jets should of won 5 games actually. They have been in every game they played this year only losing to one team by double digits. That’s called being relevant 

[jetgreen13]

1 hour ago, kevinc855 said:

Many would argue the jets should of won 5 games actually. They have been in every game they played this year only losing to one team by double digits. That’s called being relevant 

sure, if you're allowed count yourself over & over..

 

[kevinc855]

12 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

sure, if you're allowed count yourself over & over..

 

Do you self hating jet fans even watch the games anymore?? Did you see the dolphins or pats game? How did we not come close to winning those? The blindness in the tank crowd for any objective insight boggles my mind. 

[jetgreen13]

11 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Do you self hating jet fans even watch the games anymore?? Did you see the dolphins or pats game? How did we not come close to winning those? The blindness in the tank crowd for any objective insight boggles my mind. 

...look, if you want to believe the jets, if not for some random dumb luck would be 5-2, more power to you.. you won't have to worry about me trying to convince you otherwise.. 

 

[JetFaninMI]

On 10/26/2017 at 10:39 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

I think the players not being very good might have something to do with it.

So they were good enough to put up 28 points yet not finish the game? Up 28-14 and still playing the same defensive gameplan when they started to comeback? Newsflash: The Dolphins adjusted to what the Jets were doing on the defensive side of the ball and Bowles as he always does did not counter as he always does. This is his major flaw and it is evident EVERY week. Until he learns to make in game adjustments the result will be the same. Tired of watching this team lose late in games because Bowles can't  or is too stubborn to deviate from or make adjustments to his game plan.

[RESNewYork]

50 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

So they were good enough to put up 28 points yet not finish the game? Up 28-14 and still playing the same defensive gameplan when they started to comeback? Newsflash: The Dolphins adjusted to what the Jets were doing on the defensive side of the ball and Bowles as he always does did not counter as he always does. This is his major flaw and it is evident EVERY week. Until he learns to make in game adjustments the result will be the same. Tired of watching this team lose late in games because Bowles can't  or is too stubborn to deviate from or make adjustments to his game plan.

I'm curious how fans know that the Dolphins coaches adjusted and the Jets coaches didn't. Are fans watching film and recognizing how the game plan is changing? Where is this evidence you speak of every week? Or is it simply a statement fans like to make because the Dolphins came back to win. Does that mean that every team that loses the lead late did not make adjustments?

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, JetFaninMI said:

So they were good enough to put up 28 points yet not finish the game? Up 28-14 and still playing the same defensive gameplan when they started to comeback? Newsflash: The Dolphins adjusted to what the Jets were doing on the defensive side of the ball and Bowles as he always does did not counter as he always does. This is his major flaw and it is evident EVERY week. Until he learns to make in game adjustments the result will be the same. Tired of watching this team lose late in games because Bowles can't  or is too stubborn to deviate from or make adjustments to his game plan.

Def wouldn’t have grasped these concepts without framing them as a newsflash. 

[Integrity28]

On 10/26/2017 at 10:39 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

I think the players not being very good might have something to do with it.

But Kacey & Bo-Bo should also be expected to call the good plays.

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, Larz said:

everybody knows what everybody else is running

there are no magical exotic formations 

buddy ryan started tinkering with the 46 defense in the 60's, perfected it in the 80s and you still see teams run it today

that argument drives me nuts, lol

youre missing the point. Every team runs variations of schemes that are already known that's 100 % correct but to know what a team is running exactly when you face them you have to look at video. Any team can adapt to what a team is doing successfully by making changes in how they attack a defense by looking at video so when the scheme you are running is no longer getting it done, that's when a guy like Todd Bowles can't adapt or simply won't adapt or is dreadfully slow to adapt. How many times did The Jets secondary have to be burned by the deep pass last year before Bowles made some changes ? There are exotic formations, and new ones will surface. Rex ran some nice ones and fooled offenses for a while, once figured out ...(see AFCCG vs the Steelers) his defense got steamrolled with the same personnel. So if you are trying to Imply that teams don't adapt to what others are running exotic or not is ridiculous. Makes no difference if teams have been running these schemes for 2 years or 50 years you still at some point have to recognize what teams are doing in situations not just base schemes

[Philc1]

Thread should be renamed “How bad is Macagnan?”

[Philc1]

49 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

But Kacey & Bo-Bo should also be expected to call the good plays.

Macagnan has used almost all his high draft picks and spent hundreds of millions in free agency and we can’t contain Matt friggin Moore

 

 

Mike Macagnan is THE REAL PROBLEM 

[JetFaninMI]

13 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

I'm curious how fans know that the Dolphins coaches adjusted and the Jets coaches didn't. Are fans watching film and recognizing how the game plan is changing? Where is this evidence you speak of every week? Or is it simply a statement fans like to make because the Dolphins came back to win. Does that mean that every team that loses the lead late did not make adjustments?

LOL. Do you watch the games? Do you have any idea what goes on during a game? Its a fluid situation. Any coach with an understanding of the game can figure out what is working offensively AND defensively. The good ones can adjust their game plan accordingly. The bad ones can't. Maybe that's why there is such a high turnover rate among HC'S.

[JetFaninMI]

12 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Def wouldn’t have grasped these concepts without framing them as a newsflash. 

NOW THATS FUNNY.

[T0mShane]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Macagnan has used almost all his high draft picks and spent hundreds of millions in free agency and we can’t contain Matt friggin Moore

 

 

Mike Macagnan is THE REAL PROBLEM 

Matt Moore has elite traits

[varjet]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Thread should be renamed “How bad is Macagnan?”

They both worked together to build this team over the last three years.

Although the 2015 win now order was a set back, there is enough wrong here to indicate that some change needs to be made.  

Coaching has not been great, but it has flashed.  I think offensively the bigger problem is talent, and I don’t see those coaches contributing to the talent selection.  The prior offensive staff caused some damage, which is presumably on Bowles.

one would assume Bowles was involved in which defensive players to pick. 

I do think that Bowles would do better if there was a stronger presence in player selection and he coached what he was given.  

[Integrity28]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Macagnan has used almost all his high draft picks and spent hundreds of millions in free agency and we can’t contain Matt friggin Moore

 

 

Mike Macagnan is THE REAL PROBLEM 

All-caps doesn’t make your dummy posts less dummy.

They’re both mediocre on their best days. They’ve worked in tandem to build this mess. They can both be fired. I don’t need to get into hair-splitting with the JN Mensa elite here.

[RESNewYork]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

LOL. Do you watch the games? Do you have any idea what goes on during a game? Its a fluid situation. Any coach with an understanding of the game can figure out what is working offensively AND defensively. The good ones can adjust their game plan accordingly. The bad ones can't. Maybe that's why there is such a high turnover rate among HC'S.

I do watch the games. That' why I ask. Maybe you have a better eye than me but I can't tell watching on Sunday the changes in play calling, these adjustments fans talk about. I do have experience playing the game if that helps.

Fans like to day the Jets took their foot off the gas. Where is the evidence to that? Because they stopped scoring? Or Jets played prevent and that led to the other team scoring. 

Maybe you can pinpoint moments when this happened during the game. But it's probably more to do with execution than play calling and fans making assumptions

[varjet]

21 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

All-caps doesn’t make your dummy posts less dummy.

They’re both mediocre on their best days. They’ve worked in tandem to build this mess. They can both be fired. I don’t need to get into hair-splitting with the JN Mensa elite here.

I think stability is important, and unless an established winner shows up who would be very expensive, if you fire MaccBowles you are as likely to end up in the same place than an improved place.

This is why my suggestion is to bring in a Gettleman/Dorsey, who are proven winners, let Mac continue to scrounge the scrap heap, and make Bowles fire Rodgers and Caldwell replace them with someone more competent.  I think you also need someone who can look at what they have now more objectively.  

When the team is properly built and stable, then you hire an established coach for big money to take you over the line, if Bowles has not figured it out.  

Bowles is better this year, just not good enough.  I am not convinced Macc ha figured it out completely.  Wesley Johnson and Marcus Williams are the best examples of that, ignoring Adams.  

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Matt Moore has elite traits

Against the Jets. 

[JetFaninMI]

30 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

I do watch the games. That' why I ask. Maybe you have a better eye than me but I can't tell watching on Sunday the changes in play calling, these adjustments fans talk about. I do have experience playing the game if that helps.

Fans like to day the Jets took their foot off the gas. Where is the evidence to that? Because they stopped scoring? Or Jets played prevent and that led to the other team scoring. 

Maybe you can pinpoint moments when this happened during the game. But it's probably more to do with execution than play calling and fans making assumptions

Its not rocket science. The Dolphins were able to stop the Jets because they stopped what was working. With all the advancements in technology they have the ability to scrutinize game film right on the sidelines. They can see how the Jets are moving the ball and made adjustments to stop it. You see coaches using tablets on the sidelines right? What do you think they are doing? Watching youtube or posting on JN? When was the last time you watched Bowles or any Jet coach for that matter doing that? Execution is moot when the opposing side knows whats coming and has drawn up a scheme to stop it.

"Taking their foot off the gas" is running into a stacked line, not stretching the field as they were earlier in the game, and running a draw play on 3rd and long. Bowles thinks a 2 td lead is safe with 2 1/2 quarters left to play. His in game decision making relies too much on what he thinks his D can do and not what is happening on the field. You can't expect these guys to be on the field for the length of time they are and compete at a high level. They do not have the personnel for that as is evident when they break down late in games. The offense has to take pressure off the defense by eating up clock time with sustained drives and putting points on the board. They are not doing that as is evidenced by the final score. We all know this team was overachieving early in the season but they have been in games with a few exceptions. Bowles decisions have lost them games and it is plain to see on the field.

[RESNewYork]

14 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Its not rocket science. The Dolphins were able to stop the Jets because they stopped what was working. With all the advancements in technology they have the ability to scrutinize game film right on the sidelines. They can see how the Jets are moving the ball and made adjustments to stop it. You see coaches using tablets on the sidelines right? What do you think they are doing? Watching youtube or posting on JN? When was the last time you watched Bowles or any Jet coach for that matter doing that? Execution is moot when the opposing side knows whats coming and has drawn up a scheme to stop it.

"Taking their foot off the gas" is running into a stacked line, not stretching the field as they were earlier in the game, and running a draw play on 3rd and long. Bowles thinks a 2 td lead is safe with 2 1/2 quarters left to play. His in game decision making relies too much on what he thinks his D can do and not what is happening on the field. You can't expect these guys to be on the field for the length of time they are and compete at a high level. They do not have the personnel for that as is evident when they break down late in games. The offense has to take pressure off the defense by eating up clock time with sustained drives and putting points on the board. They are not doing that as is evidenced by the final score. We all know this team was overachieving early in the season but they have been in games with a few exceptions. Bowles decisions have lost them games and it is plain to see on the field.

First, I'm glad you think so highly of yourself with your knowledge of the game to talk to me like I'm some idiot. I did play 4 years of college ball and I may not know as much about the game as you, but you can relax. Your youtube and JN statements are cute, and obviously made to prove your superior knowledge of the game.

It's a great argument. I should believe that Morton gets the credit for getting the Offense to play fast and move the ball early, but up 14, Bowles steps in and tells the offense to slow it down. Sure. That makes sense. Bowles is telling Moron, run into a stacked line.

I don't remember the play calling but I remember it was 3rd and 20 when they ran that draw. There are ton of plays to convert that. 

[JetFaninMI]

3 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

First, I'm glad you think so highly of yourself with your knowledge of the game to talk to me like I'm some idiot. I did play 4 years of college ball and I may not know as much about the game as you, but you can relax. Your youtube and JN statements are cute, and obviously made to prove your superior knowledge of the game.

First, I'm glad you think so highly of yourself with your knowledge of the game to talk to me like I'm some idiot. I did play 4 years of college ball and I may not know as much about the game as you, but you can relax. Your youtube and JN statements are cute, and obviously made to prove your superior knowledge of the game.

I don't remember the play calling but I remember it was 3rd and 20 when they ran that draw. There are ton of plays to convert that. 

First, I'm glad you think so highly of yourself with your knowledge of the game to talk to me like I'm some idiot. I did play 4 years of college ball and I may not know as much about the game as you, but you can relax. Your youtube and JN statements are cute, and obviously made to prove your superior knowledge of the game.

 I'm not belittling you. You asked me to explain and I did. If you disagree fine. You played the game? Then you don't need me to tell you whats going on and if you can't see it well thats on you.

[RESNewYork]

34 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

First, I'm glad you think so highly of yourself with your knowledge of the game to talk to me like I'm some idiot. I did play 4 years of college ball and I may not know as much about the game as you, but you can relax. Your youtube and JN statements are cute, and obviously made to prove your superior knowledge of the game.

 I'm not belittling you. You asked me to explain and I did. If you disagree fine. You played the game? Then you don't need me to tell you whats going on and if you can't see it well thats on you.

Point is I didn't see any change in play calling or philosophy to run clock and not try and get first downs. Fans equate ineffectiveness in execution to coaches trying to run clock when it's not true.  When you look at the play log, penalties and pass protection, or McCown holding the ball too long led to ineffective offense in the 4th. If you can't see that than that's on you. 

[JetFaninMI]

5 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Point is I didn't see any change in play calling or philosophy to run clock and not try and get first downs. Fans equate ineffectiveness in execution to coaches trying to run clock when it's not true.  When you look at the play log, penalties and pass protection, or McCown holding the ball too long led to ineffective offense in the 4th. If you can't see that than that's on you. 

LOL. Then we agree to disagree. I feel Bowles is inept as an HC and you see no problem with his coaching or game planning. Good luck with that.

[Mogglez]

I don't know, Kevin & UnitedWhoFans haven't told me how I should feel about them yet.

[JETSfaninNE]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:19 AM, jackhuntr said:

I think it's because we game plan and practice all week for the starting QB.

Poor coaching or poor study habits but playing against backups are supposed to be an advantage, not the other way around.  Its pretty obvious historically the Jets just aren't ready for situational football.