How much criticism should Macc be getting for whiffing on Watson?

[UnitedWhofans]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Woody shmuddy. He's a dope, and has that famously stupid power structure, but in terms of player personnel he lets the GM do what the GM wants (as past and present GMs have shown and acknowledged). He only sticks his unnecessary 2 cents in when it's time to hire a HC or GM.

Maccagnan is the GM. He doesn't answer to Bowles no matter what conspiracy theory some have conjured up in their heads. I'm quite sure Macc solicits input from everyone around him, like every GM, but ultimately the decision is his to make. Just like it was no secret Bowles didn't want the roster he went to battle with this year and it was clear he didn't want to cut certain players, yet Maccagnan did it anyway. 

Enough about the greatness of the situation in Houston. Houston sucks. Everyone overrates Houston's situation this year because of Watson's unexpected success: success others didn't have before him, and success that's absent after him. Their OL has 5 legitimately terrible blockers, none of whom do anything well except let blockers into the backfield. This bad joke of an OL, and the 2nd-team defense they've been fielding this year, has removed the ability to really rest and rely on the ground game to take pressure off a young QB. It's not a good situation for a veteran, let alone for a rookie, just because you heard 2 of their WRs' names called in your fantasy draft. This was a bottom-3 passing attack until Watson got there and it's resembling that again now that Watson's gone.

But again, if you want to call into question a comparatively substandard makeup of the Jets' team, that blame lies with the GM. You can't have it both ways by saying the team he put together is crap, so therefore you think he's justified in passing up on a QB to stick with his 2 busts and Josh McCown. 

The "Macc's done some good and some bad" sentiment is a ludicrous one because the way this binary outcome choice is laid out there suggests that he's right roughly as often as he's wrong. He's nowhere near batting .500 since coming here. In free agency I'm not sure that he's batting even .100 and it isn't all that much better in the draft (which "success" is itself inflated by taking safer, low ceiling players in round 1 because they supposedly had a higher floor.)

He's a novice in competition with professionals. An incompetent whose incompetence is only masked by the fact that other similar (and even a few worse) incompetents are employed by other teams. So at best he's the proverbial King of the Dipsh*ts. That's not good enough to get us to a superbowl, though. Not ever.

So I ask you again? Why doesnt the media who blasted John Idzik not blasting this guy?

[jetrider]

11 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So I ask you again? Why doesnt the media who blasted John Idzik not blasting this guy?

Because nobody but Sperm believes Sperm's outlandish nonsense.

[Jetscode1]

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Woody shmuddy. He's a dope, and has that famously stupid power structure, but in terms of player personnel he lets the GM do what the GM wants (as past and present GMs have shown and acknowledged). He only sticks his unnecessary 2 cents in when it's time to hire a HC or GM.

Maccagnan is the GM. He doesn't answer to Bowles no matter what conspiracy theory some have conjured up in their heads. I'm quite sure Macc solicits input from everyone around him, like every GM, but ultimately the decision is his to make. Just like it was no secret Bowles didn't want the roster he went to battle with this year and it was clear he didn't want to cut certain players, yet Maccagnan did it anyway. 

Enough about the greatness of the situation in Houston. Houston sucks. Everyone overrates Houston's situation this year because of Watson's unexpected success: success others didn't have before him, and success that's absent after him. Their OL has 5 legitimately terrible blockers, none of whom do anything well except let blockers into the backfield. This bad joke of an OL, and the 2nd-team defense they've been fielding this year, has removed the ability to really rest and rely on the ground game to take pressure off a young QB. It's not a good situation for a veteran, let alone for a rookie, just because you heard 2 of their WRs' names called in your fantasy draft. This was a bottom-3 passing attack until Watson got there and it's resembling that again now that Watson's gone.

But again, if you want to call into question a comparatively substandard makeup of the Jets' team, that blame lies with the GM. You can't have it both ways by saying the team he put together is crap, so therefore you think he's justified in passing up on a QB to stick with his 2 busts and Josh McCown. 

The "Macc's done some good and some bad" sentiment is a ludicrous one because the way this binary outcome choice is laid out there suggests that he's right roughly as often as he's wrong. He's nowhere near batting .500 since coming here. In free agency I'm not sure that he's batting even .100 and it isn't all that much better in the draft (which "success" is itself inflated by taking safer, low ceiling players in round 1 because they supposedly had a higher floor.)

He's a novice in competition with professionals. An incompetent whose incompetence is only masked by the fact that other similar (and even a few worse) incompetents are employed by other teams. So at best he's the proverbial King of the Dipsh*ts. That's not good enough to get us to a superbowl, though. Not ever.

Macc made a decision as the GM that you disagreed with.  I'm shocked.  We we still do not know why.  As far as justified in passing up a QB.  Although I liked Watson, I've also seen QBs like Ponder, Gabbert and Locker get picked way too soon.  So, not just any QB is a smart pick.  You still haven't answered the mail on this...does Watson enjoy the same success with Jets this year as he had with Houston.  If no, why not?  If yes, then truly in your opinion Macc missed the next Jets savior. 

As far as the rest.  Macc has done some good and some bad.  My take anyway.  You have obviously made some observations and conclusions about the GM that I have not reached.  I guess since you've concluded that we are never getting to the Super Bowl with him you should probably pitch in to purchase a billboard in London to show Woody your displeasure?  

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, jetrider said:

Because nobody but Sperm believes Sperm's outlandish nonsense.

Listen I'm  for some reason classified as a Macc homer and yet I think he's made some questionable decisions and that if he doesn't get a long term answer at QB this offseason, he should be fired. So I think I am pretty fair in judgement. 

[NoBowles]

9 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Because nobody but Sperm believes Sperm's outlandish nonsense.

Amazingly, he does have his groupie followers

[joewilly12]

Until Macc finds a decent QB the mocking and ridicule will continue. 

[jetrider]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Listen I'm  for some reason classified as a Macc homer and yet I think he's made some questionable decisions and that if he doesn't get a long term answer at QB this offseason, he should be fired. So I think I am pretty fair in judgement. 

If we draft one - hypothetically Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, etc. - we need to go all-in and build a team and system around him. From day one.

In the hands of Todd Bowlesh!t you can count on another clueless QB competition that semi-bakes each guy. Garbage in, garbage out. 

The same clueless fans will blame Macc. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Until Macc finds a decent QB the mocking and ridicule will continue. 

The mocking for drafting Hackenberg. It's too early to mock this decision

[joewilly12]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The mocking for drafting Hackenberg. It's too early to mock this decision

COME ON MAN 

2 years never seen the field during the regular season, I think its quite obvious. 

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

COME ON MAN 

2 years never seen the field during the regular season, I think its quite obvious. 

No that mocking is fair. The mocking that isnt is for not drafting Watson when we've only had 7 games of Watson.

MAcc should be mocked for Hackenberg just like McDermott should be mocked for putting Nathan Peterson in a game and he wasnt ready for it

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No that mocking is fair. The mocking that isnt is for not drafting Watson when we've only had 7 games of Watson.

MAcc should be mocked for Hackenberg just like McDermott should be mocked for putting Nathan Peterson in a game and he wasnt ready for it

Watson in 7 games and in his first year has surpassed anything Hackenberg has done or will do. 

He was on the board when Macc selected Adams. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Watson in 7 games and in his first year has surpassed anything Hackenberg has done or will do. 

I dont care. I need to see Watson play for a couple years before you can completely eviscerate. For all I know, he could break his leg next year and never play again

[RESNewYork]

11 minutes ago, jetrider said:

If we draft one - hypothetically Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, etc. - we need to go all-in and build a team and system around him. From day one.

In the hands of Todd Bowlesh!t you can count on another clueless QB competition that semi-bakes each guy. Garbage in, garbage out. 

The same clueless fans will blame Macc. 

This is a weird statement. 

First, the QBs on the roster for this coaching staff has been Fitz, Petty, Geno, Hack, and McCown with Mac being responsible for that. 

Second, Fitz and McCown have now had career years under these coaches. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I dont care. I need to see Watson play for a couple years before you can completely eviscerate. For all I know, he could break his leg next year and never play again

As we speak current time I'm talking, not light years down the road. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

As we speak current time I'm talking, not light years down the road. 

I know. Down the road is when you can eviscerate him.

[CrazyCarl40]

17 hours ago, jetrider said:

Because nobody but Sperm believes Sperm's outlandish nonsense.

Yes, no one believes one of the best poster on this board and everyone believes you, who searches our old posts to negative rep. Here is one to negative rep in real time.

[jetrider]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No that mocking is fair. The mocking that isnt is for not drafting Watson when we've only had 7 games of Watson

Plus Bowles didn't want Watson at #6, their BPA was Adams. Defensive guru Bowles has two young QBs stuffed in a freezer with no QB on the field to call his own. McCown was the default Todd Bowles lazy-man's solution done before the draft. 

[joewilly12]

17 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes, no one believes one of the best poster on this board and everyone believes you, who searches our old posts to negative rep. Here is one to negative rep in real time.

Carl calm down man life is too short buddy. 

[jetrider]

17 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes, no one believes one of the best poster on this board and everyone believes you, who searches our old posts to negative rep. Here is one to negative rep in real timen. 

I don't randomly negative rep posts like you do CrazyGirl40. I look for ones I disagree with ... FOOL.

[NoBowles]

17 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yes, no one believes one of the best poster on this board and everyone believes you, who searches our old posts to negative rep. Here is one to negative rep in real time. 

Best at what??

[Freemanm]

Jamal Adams was by far the BPA at #6. How much criticism would Mac be getting for taking Watson over him? Picking Maye, of course, is a different story, although he is the best second round pick we've made in a long time, although that's not saying much at all

[CrazyCarl40]

52 minutes ago, jetrider said:

I don't randomly negative rep posts like you do CrazyGirl40. I look for ones I disagree with ... FOOL.

That’s why you went to a thread from two days ago and negative repped a joke post? Cool story. Just put me on block. 

[CrazyCarl40]

39 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Best at what??

I’m not going to give you his resume, but when it comes to insights, the cap, and ridiculously long posts that no one ever reads through, Sperm is great. His reputation here is almost unparalled. I, for one, can’t wait for him to undress all of you in posts later. 

[jetrider]

7 hours ago, Bugg said:

Disagree. A non-contact knee injury,  in practice no less, could happen to any QB, or really any player. Players who have long careers miss chunks of seasons all the time. You could not predict the exact injury would have happened if the Jets had picked him. If you could have, your talents are wasted here; come on by and we'll hit the gas station to buy lottery tickets on the way to Aqueduct.  This injury is simply a bump in the road.The decision to not pick Watson was atrocious and disasterously stupid. But entirely typical. 

You lecture JetsCode1 about predicting the future and then predict the future yourself. 

You Macc-haters all have one thing in common: a mental block for logic. 

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I’m not going to give you his resume, but when it comes to insights, the cap, and ridiculously long posts that no one ever reads through, Sperm is great. His reputation here is almost unparalled. I, for one, can’t wait for him to undress all of you in posts later. 

Of course Sperm is great, if not for Sperm, our species would not exist.....

As for your leader and master, I am glad you enjoy him and all his ridiculous agenda driven drivel, good for you. 

[CrazyCarl40]

5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Of course Sperm is great, if not for Sperm, our species would not exist.....

As for your leader and master, I am glad you enjoy him and all his ridiculous agenda driven drivel, good for you. 

And what iteration of screen name is this for you? 

[NoBowles]

42 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

And what iteration of screen name is this for you? 

I used to be CrazyCarl39, this is my second iteration. I wanted 40 but you already had it.

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

You lecture JetsCode1 about predicting the future and then predict the future yourself. 

You Macc-haters all have one thing in common: a mental block for logic. 

Injuries happen. Many football players have recovered from this kind of knee injury. Deshaun Watson is also a  very good hard-working football player. His next contract could be huge; he is going to be very motivated.  He would be in the gym anyway and will rehab from this injury. It is not a stretch at all that he will make a full recovery, in fact it's what everyone expects since the day this happened. If anyone is jumping to unfounded conclusions, it's anyone here who thinks this injury means Watson's career is over.

And if logic is your lodestar, NOBODY should pick a safety in the first round, and NEVER should do so over a great QB. Logic? With Maccganan's failure to grasp the relative value among positions, spare me. The Jets, despite 3 years of your beloved genius, do not have a shutdown corner, nor an edge pass rusher, nor a franchise QB, nor a beast LT, nor an even solid RB. This roster today is no better than it was the day he was hired, and in some ways worse. Logic? Really...

[Sperm Edwards]

20 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

Macc made a decision as the GM that you disagreed with.  I'm shocked.  We we still do not know why.  As far as justified in passing up a QB.  Although I liked Watson, I've also seen QBs like Ponder, Gabbert and Locker get picked way too soon.  So, not just any QB is a smart pick.  You still haven't answered the mail on this...does Watson enjoy the same success with Jets this year as he had with Houston.  If no, why not?  If yes, then truly in your opinion Macc missed the next Jets savior. 

As far as the rest.  Macc has done some good and some bad.  My take anyway.  You have obviously made some observations and conclusions about the GM that I have not reached.  I guess since you've concluded that we are never getting to the Super Bowl with him you should probably pitch in to purchase a billboard in London to show Woody your displeasure?  

We'll never know what he would have done. Perhaps his numbers would have been lower but also perhaps we'd have won more games than Houston since every half-talented player on the their team's defense is injured and their OL is arguably even worse than ours (our GM learned from the masters lol). 

The criticism it isn't remotely all because of Watson; it's because in 3 seasons his only acquisition of a young franchise QB prospect was over-drafting long shot Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round.

Some good and some bad, lol. Without the context of how much was proportionally good and bad and the opportunities available, this could be said of literally any failure. 

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

And what iteration of screen name is this for you? 

Depends which meltdown-then-banning you're referring to, lol.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Bugg said:

Injuries happen. Many football players have recovered from this kind of knee injury. Deshaun Watson is also a  very good hard-working football player. His next contract could be huge; he is going to be very motivated.  He would be in the gym anyway and will rehab from this injury. It is not a stretch at all that he will make a full recovery, in fact it's what everyone expects since the day this happened. If anyone is jumping to unfounded conclusions, it's anyone here who thinks this injury means Watson's career is over.

And if logic is your lodestar, NOBODY should pick a safety in the first round, and NEVER should do so over a great QB. Logic? With Maccganan's failure to grasp the relative value among positions, spare me. The Jets, despite 3 years of your beloved genius, do not have a shutdown corner, nor an edge pass rusher, nor a franchise QB, nor a beast LT, nor an even solid RB. This roster today is no better than it was the day he was hired, and in some ways worse. Logic? Really...

They day he took over there was at least the hopeful optimism of the unknown. 

[Larz]

Let's give Watson the Jets trolls treatment....

"Yeah, QBs that give you a losing record and suffer serious knee injuries running around in shorts are rare finds, you can't sign a jag free agent to come in and do that"

[Fantasy Island]

22 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well since I think we would be in the same place with Petty, it really makes no difference to me.

And I keep going back to this. IF you want Macc to draft a QB, why do you think Petty should play?

Petty should have been playing all along so he could be evaluated.

[jetrider]

16 hours ago, Bugg said:

Injuries happen. Many football players have recovered from this kind of knee injury. Deshaun Watson is also a  very good hard-working football player. His next contract could be huge; he is going to be very motivated.  He would be in the gym anyway and will rehab from this injury. It is not a stretch at all that he will make a full recovery, in fact it's what everyone expects since the day this happened. If anyone is jumping to unfounded conclusions, it's anyone here who thinks this injury means Watson's career is over.

And if logic is your lodestar, NOBODY should pick a safety in the first round, and NEVER should do so over a great QB. Logic? With Maccganan's failure to grasp the relative value among positions, spare me. The Jets, despite 3 years of your beloved genius, do not have a shutdown corner, nor an edge pass rusher, nor a franchise QB, nor a beast LT, nor an even solid RB. This roster today is no better than it was the day he was hired, and in some ways worse. Logic? Really...

Watson can be another RGIII. Like you told JetsCode1, you cannot predict the future.

I agree with most of your roster criticisms. But your blame is misguided. Two points that you and the muppets don't get:

1. It's the HC's vision. Macc doesn't make moves by himself. Bowles is onboard with everything. It begins with the HC.

2. It's the coaching staff's job to get the most out of players and utilize them properly. If every student fails you gotta question the teacher. Only nerds who never played sports think building a winning team begins and ends with the GM's pen and handshake (Sperm Edwards, gEYno, CrazyGirl40, Fantasy Island, etc.) 

[Matt39]

I dont believe Adams has even come close to intercepting a pass this year. A hybrid safety/linebacker at 6 who doesnt have a nose for the football with a QB on the board is fireable.