UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Fantasy Island said: Oh yes he did. Smith was a horrible pick. Hated it that night , hate it still. you might have but experts did not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 58 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said: Why are we STILL going on about this? There was NO expert (and when I say expert, I mean REAL experts, not the ones that sit on team websites and say I KNEW HE WOULD BE GREAT) that had him picked higher than right around where he went. Mac was not picking a QB at 6. IF he could have brokered a deal to move down, then maybe. Now, if Mac whiffs on a QB next year.....the doors will be WIDE open for his departure. Yeah, it always makes sense to not draft a QB five spots too high and take a safety instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 We have at least one serious Macc fanboi in this thread. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: If Bill O'Brien had any trust in Watson, they would be 4-3 right now If Watson hadn't thrown a pick 6, they would be 4-3 right now Oh, one play is what you're basing his entire worth as a franchise QB on. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Gastineau Lives said: Yeah, it always makes sense to not draft a QB five spots too high and take a safety instead. Yes a safety that was valued in the top 5 by experts. I keep coming back to this, if QBs and edge rushers are more valuable, then why aren't they ranked higher by draftniks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Yes a safety that was valued in the top 5 by experts. I keep coming back to this, if QBs and edge rushers are more valuable, then why aren't they ranked higher by draftniks? So, safeties are more valuable than edge rushers and QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Gastineau Lives said: Oh, one play is what you're basing his entire worth as a franchise QB on. Got it. And you're basing his worth on 7 games. haha. Tell that to the Redskins and RGIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Gastineau Lives said: So, safeties are more valuable than edge rushers and QBs. If they are not more valuable, why are they ranked in the top ten by experts? I'm waiting for the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: And you're basing his worth on 7 games. haha. Tell that to the Redskins and RGIII RGIII is not Deshaun Watson. Tell me how they are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: If they are not more valuable, why are they ranked in the top ten by experts? I'm waiting for the answer I'm sorry. I need to stop talking to you now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Gastineau Lives said: RGIII is not Deshaun Watson. Tell me how they are similar. In terms of style probably not. But both splashed on the scene in their first year. We need to wait and see if Watson is the real deal before declaring blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Gastineau Lives said: I'm sorry. I need to stop talking to you now. If you can't give me an answer, then I must be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Warfish said: We have at least one serious Macc fanboi in this thread. Wow. If I was a serious Macc fanboy, then I would try to defend him for taking Hackenberg. I can't do that. That was a horrible pick. And if he bombs out of a QB next year, then I would give him the axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 41 minutes ago, NoBowles said: This is a very tricky question.... First off, how much credit does he get for not taking Paxton Lynch? Does he get credit yet for Paxton Lynch? Does he get credit at all for it since supposedly it was Bowles who did not want him? Or does Bowles get the credit? Or is it too early to write off Lynch? ( I think so) Had they taken Lynch with their 1st rounder last year, would it have been realistic to take a high 1st round QB after taking a 1st round QB the year before who was considered a dev project? Many Jets fans were pounding the table for Lynch... If Bowles gets credit for not taking Lynch, was he also behind not taking Watson? Its really hard to look at these things in a vacuum like many want to do. I take a QB every year til we get one that can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said: Oh yes he did. Smith was a horrible pick. Hated it that night , hate it still. Wow, you still hate the Smith pick. That's a bold statement. Do you still hate the Milliner pick? What about the Hack pick? Your expert insight is appreciated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said: I take a QB every year til we get one that can play. That is a fair statement. The question is when? After spending a second round pick on a QB the year before, do you gamble with a first? Only if you really believe that he is the guy. I would rather kind of do what Washington did. Draft 2 QBs in the same draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said: Wow, you still hate the Smith pick. That's a bold statement. Do you still hate the Milliner pick? What about the Hack pick? Your expert insight is appreciated.... Yes, they were all horrible. When a fan can pick better than a GM, then that GM has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: That is a fair statement. The question is when? After spending a second round pick on a QB the year before, do you gamble with a first? Only if you really believe that he is the guy. Yes in the first. Somehow there is a belief that you can bring QB's along slowly. Not true, it is a win now league. The new CBA doesn't break the bank anymore for misses in the first round and yet the mindset still remains that it does. The days of a JaMarcus Russell are gone. Keep buying the lottery tickets until one hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Fantasy Island said: Yes in the first. Somehow there is a belief that you can bring QB's along slowly. Not true, it is a win now league. The new CBA doesn't break the bank anymore for misses in the first round and yet the mindset still remains that it does. The days of a JaMarcus Russell are gone. Keep buying the lottery tickets until one hits. I think that the fear is if you keep wasting firsts on a QB until you hit one, you will end up being the Colts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 47 minutes ago, gEYno said: This is correct. So, basically, we should probably get rid of the two guys who are responsible for, after 3 seasons, Josh McCown being the best QB on the roster by far, and bring in 2 other guys who may actually value the position correctly. This is exactly my feeling. Pointing all the blame at Mac, or Bowles is a fun exercise, but there is more than enough evidence that they both have their hands in the current mess. I don't think you can fire one without the other personally, it doesn't make sense. I would not give them another year to try to find their QB, but if you do, I think you keep both and have their fates tied together. The mess with Tanyy/Rex/Idzik was not something that makes sense and moves orgs in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 49 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: that's just it, mccags won't find a watson b/c he's too afraid of taking a lynch. that's why we end up with petty/hack/mccown/fitzpatrick. i'd rather have tanny make the picks, at least we have a SHOT of getting a good qb. Well, if you believe Schefter, it was Bowles who did not want Lynch, not Maccagnan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said: Yeah, it is....if you mean the constant bitching about Watson. It is beyond idiotic to think that a 3rd year GM, after taking a QB in the 2nd round the previous year, would take a QB that some had ranked right about where he went, and others had him pegged more as a 2-3 round guy. There were great concerns about his arm strength, a REAL issue in the Meadowlands, INT'S, ready through progressions. It is SIMPLE to sit on a website and say "I would have..." BS you would, not when your neck is on the line, and there were as many concerns about him as a prospect. He starts this season for us and we are 3-5, or worse? The next set of billboards would have been up calling for his termination. The big thing to be pissed at, in my opinion, is why Josh McCown keeps getting trotted out to play. It is unbelievable that Petty and Hack are not 1 and 2 for this whole season so you can see what you have, so you can go into the draft knowing you need starter-QB, a project, and what type of back-up you need. If you wanna be pissed about anything, that would be the best thing, because it is ridiculous. Yeah, imagine if we’d reached for Watson at 6. Boy, would our faces be red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, dbatesman said: Yeah, imagine if we’d reached for Watson at 6. Boy, would our faces be red Especially if he was on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Especially if he was on the bench Imagine what grade the experts would have given us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said: I take a QB every year til we get one that can play. This sounds great, and fans love to say things like this, but I just don't see it as reality. Not all QB's burst onto the scene and are legit on day 1. If the Giants did this, they may not have had Eli Manning to win 2 SB's. Even more so in this day and age where college offenses are so different than the NFL. Guys like Watson are the exception, not the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, NoBowles said: This sounds great, and fans love to say things like this, but I just don't see it as reality. Not all QB's burst onto the scene and are legit on day 1. If the Giants did this, they may not have had Eli Manning to win 2 SB's. Even more so in this day and age where college offenses are so different than the NFL. Guys like Watson are the exception, not the norm. I think this is correct, but there’s a big difference between trading up to take a guy first overall and taking a flier on a guy in the second. One of the most-cited reasons to take a QB in the second is that you’re not tied to the guy. And yet our last two GMs have spent a two on bum-ass QBs and then left vastly superior prospects on the board the very next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, dbatesman said: I think this is correct, but there’s a big difference between trading up to take a guy first overall and taking a flier on a guy in the second. One of the most-cited reasons to take a QB in the second is that you’re not tied to the guy. And yet our last two GMs have spent a two on bum-ass QBs and then left superior prospects on the board next year. Absolutely agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said: Yes and here it is again. Instead of looking at the positive of what we have, you jump to the negative. IT goes back to the wives. So, your take is that we should be happy that we got an average strong safety with limited upside, and ignore that we missed a potentially good QB. You're conflating seeking out the negative with sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, BigRy56 said: Watson was the third QB taken. He didn't whiff on him and if he would've taken Watson this place would have gone ballistic. He also would be on a team with significantly less talent. He's in a good situation in Houston - let's see if it lasts. Watson has already made him look bad. It's very possible Watson wouldn't look as good here. But, we've seen that Watson can play at a reasonably high level. We desperately need a QB. We got a SS that we don't yet know if he can play at a reasonably high level. QBs are about 10 fold more important than SSs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 56 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said: RGIII is not Deshaun Watson. Tell me how they are similar. ehhhmmmm... you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, gEYno said: Watson has already made him look bad. It's very possible Watson wouldn't look as good here. But, we've seen that Watson can play at a reasonably high level. We desperately need a QB. We got a SS that we don't yet know if he can play at a reasonably high level. QBs are about 10 fold more important than SSs. What if The Experts agree that the SS in question is the best player in the draft, smart guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 41 minutes ago, NoBowles said: This is exactly my feeling. Pointing all the blame at Mac, or Bowles is a fun exercise, but there is more than enough evidence that they both have their hands in the current mess. I don't think you can fire one without the other personally, it doesn't make sense. I would not give them another year to try to find their QB, but if you do, I think you keep both and have their fates tied together. The mess with Tanyy/Rex/Idzik was not something that makes sense and moves orgs in the right direction. To be clear, I don't blame either for everything. I blame each for the failures of their general job descriptions. In game buffoonery goes to Bowles, and there's been plenty of that. Quality of the roster goes to Mac, and the isn't much quality at all. Ultimately, I take the position I do here, because I think Bowles deserves plenty of criticism, but the level to which people blame him for this sh*t-show is just completely out of control, and often times, completely illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 42 minutes ago, dbatesman said: I think this is correct, but there’s a big difference between trading up to take a guy first overall and taking a flier on a guy in the second. One of the most-cited reasons to take a QB in the second is that you’re not tied to the guy. And yet our last two GMs have spent a two on bum-ass QBs and then left vastly superior prospects on the board the very next year. 40 minutes ago, NoBowles said: Absolutely agree Look at you two, getting along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, dbatesman said: What if The Experts agree that the SS in question is the best player in the draft, smart guy? Then, we blame the media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 49 minutes ago, dbatesman said: I think this is correct, but there’s a big difference between trading up to take a guy first overall and taking a flier on a guy in the second. One of the most-cited reasons to take a QB in the second is that you’re not tied to the guy. And yet our last two GMs have spent a two on bum-ass QBs and then left vastly superior prospects on the board the very next year. Taking Pryor in 2014 was one of the all time boners by the Jets, considering the roster and who was on the board. Hell, the Geno truthers probably could have been put to bed easily with Cooks or even Benjamin being on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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