UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 59 minutes ago, gEYno said: You will literally say anything to defend Mac, huh? Defend him for what? Something that we have no idea about. In two years if Watson is going to the Bowl and Macc didn’t find a QB, then by all means I will attack. Until then I will reserve judgement, something that a lot of Jets fans should learn how to do. Otherwise a top rookie QB will never blossom here because fans will want him out the door the minute he makes a blunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 35 minutes ago, bitonti said: Watson did not start all 7 seven games. Savage started the opener and they got smoked by Jacksonville. in the 6 games Watson has started they are 3-3 the losses were @ NE (33-36), vs KC (34-42) and @ SEA (38-42) In those losses this pure rookie put up 4 TD plus against 3 of the best teams in the league. The only reason a Jets fan would prefer Adams to Watson is because they haven't bothered to learn about Watson. If he hasd won any of those 3 games, I would have been impressed. Bill O’Brien did not trust him to close the game with a 3rd and 4, knowing that his defense is hanging on by the skin of their teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Defend him for what? Something that we have no idea about. In two years if Watson is going to the Bowl and Macc didn’t find a QB, then by all means I will attack. Until then I will reserve judgement, something that a lot of Jets fans should learn how to do. Otherwise a top rookie QB will never blossom here because fans will want him out the door the minute he makes a blunder It's year 3 and Mac has no QB and he just took a SS over one with potential. The only way this doesn't look bad is if Watson is terrible. Thus far, he's far from it. You keep talking about Watson being in a better situation in Houston. That's true. But, again... Year 3. The reason the NYJ situation is bad is because of Mac. He's to blame. Lastly, as for running a QB out of town too soon, name the player that fans have done this with. Seriously, fans like you keep saying this, but then never bring the goods with a relevant example of a player that the fans ran out of town and then they became a good player. So, let's hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, gEYno said: It's year 3 and Mac has no QB and he just took a SS over one with potential. The only way this doesn't look bad is if Watson is terrible. Thus far, he's far from it. You keep talking about Watson being in a better situation in Houston. That's true. But, again... Year 3. The reason the NYJ situation is bad is because of Mac. He's to blame. I agree that this should have been done earlier but I blame Woody partly for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: If he hasd won any of those 3 games, I would have been impressed. Bill O’Brien did not trust him to close the game with a 3rd and 4, knowing that his defense is hanging on by the skin of their teeth You know that QBs only play offense, right? They aren't the main line of defense against other teams scoring 40 ppg. I actually think we need to check in on this right now. Do you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: I agree that this should have been done earlier but I blame Woody partly for that Who cares? You have no evidence to support this, so, again, it's just you making things up to support your predetermined conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I noticed you ignored the opportunity to support your claim about Jets fans running players out of town to soon. I just wanted to point that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, gEYno said: Who cares? You have no evidence to support this, so, again, it's just you making things up to support your predetermined conclusion. My evidence is based in past history. It might not be right but it is an estimated guess. Just like you estimating that Watson would have done better here 6 minutes ago, gEYno said: You know that QBs only play offense, right? They aren't the main line of defense against other teams scoring 40 ppg. I actually think we need to check in on this right now. Do you know that? But you said the QBs are the most valuable player on the team. Here’s where we get to brass tacks. How valuable are they if Deshaun Watson can ply like bonkers and the Texans are 3-3 in his starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: But you said the QBs are the most valuable player on the team. Here’s where we get to brass tacks. How valuable are they if Deshaun Watson can ply like bonkers and the Texans are 3-4 Because it's not the NBA, and one player can be the most important without being able to singlehandedly win games for you. Its also not MLB where a pitcher's performance directly effects the other teams offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: My evidence is based in past history. It might not be right but it is an estimated guess. Just like you estimating that Watson would have done better here Past history contradicts you. Woody Johnson's Jets have brought in Brett Favre, traded up for Mark Sanchez, and acquired Tim Tebow. Woody wants a QB, because QBs sell tickets and merchandise and get headlines. So, no. Also, I've not once suggested that Watson would do better here. I guess we can add that to the list of things you've made up in this thread alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, gEYno said: Past history contradicts you. Woody Johnson's Jets have brought in Brett Favre, traded up for Mark Sanchez, and acquired Tim Tebow. Woody wants a QB, because QBs sell tickets and merchandise and get headlines. So, no. Also, I've not once suggested that Watson would do better here. I guess we can add that to the list of things you've made up in this thread alone. I never said you said Watson would do better here. Better than Houston? Heck no? In terms of Woody, I wasn't talking about the QB. I was talking about the rebuild. This should have been done 3 years ago, but Woody likes to win to keep out of the back pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: And I keep going back to this. If it’s the most valuable position, why are the Texans 3-4, if Watson has played well. Remember QB is the most vital position what a horesh*t assessment that is dude. Horsesh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadFan Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: And I keep going back to this. If it’s the most valuable position, why are the Texans 3-4, if Watson has played well. Remember QB is the most vital position You're an up and down poster in my opinion. Sometimes you offer something intelligent and insightful. Other times you post some preposterous drivel. The above falls into the latter category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, RoadFan said: You're an up and down poster in my opinion. Sometimes you offer something intelligent and insightful. Other times you post some preposterous drivel. The above falls into the latter category. It probably is, but people keep harping on Watson this and Watson that when his team has won the same amount of games as the Jets. He's been awesome and I know he's not the reason for why his team has a losing record. But it seems to me that his value right now has been in style points and stats. IF he can start to win some of those games, then it changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 13 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: It probably is, but people keep harping on Watson this and Watson that when his team has won the same amount of games as the Jets. He's been awesome and I know he's not the reason for why his team has a losing record. But it seems to me that his value right now has been in style points and stats. IF he can start to win some of those games, then it changes You should consider a different sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The Houston defense which was iron clad before is utter trash this year. They also have probably the most overrated head coaches in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Schroy Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Pointdexter said: There are no Deshaun Watsons in the upcoming draft. This was the best QB in college football the last 2 seasons. This was the guy that ripped mighty Alabama's defense a new one....twice, when it counted the most. The Jets haven't had their own franchise QB in 3 decades. Hack is garbage and everyone knew and still knows it. So DW was right there, staring back at us at #6, a golden opportunity for a true franchise QB of our own, to a team who so desperately needs one. And we draft safety. And, no this isn't hindsight. Most fans who also follow cfb was screaming for this guy. The upside was way too good if it payed off. And we draft safety. Now we choose btw Rosen who emotionally/mentally may be fragile. Or Darnold who has a ton to prove in a sophomore slump. Or Lamar Jackson who looks as uncomfortable in the pocket as any QB I've seen. So shouldn't Macc be held accountable for going safety when even most fans would have got it right with franchise QB??? This miss is as big as trading up for Dewayne Robertson. True but at least Dewayne announced, "I will not be blocked", so at least he had that going for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 If they passed on Watson because they didn’t think he was as good as Darnold or Rosen, it’d be bad, but defensible. The fact that they passed on Watson because they thought Hackenberg could win the Jets QB job is terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 All this proves is nobody can predict the future Look at any draft that is at least 3 years old It's a lol train for the whole league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, T0mShane said: If they passed on Watson because they didn’t think he was as good as Darnold or Rosen, it’d be bad, but defensible. The fact that they passed on Watson because they thought Hackenberg could win the Jets QB job is terminal. The plan is much more complicated than that checkers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadFan Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 54 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: It probably is, but people keep harping on Watson this and Watson that when his team has won the same amount of games as the Jets. He's been awesome and I know he's not the reason for why his team has a losing record. But it seems to me that his value right now has been in style points and stats. IF he can start to win some of those games, then it changes As others mentioned, Bill O'Brien robbed Watson of an opportunity for two signature road wins, Foxboro and Seattle. B.O'B is such a chickensh*t. Every time he goes against his old boss, Belicheat, he either cowers away or totally lays down with a nauseating level of reverence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: I never said you said Watson would do better here. Better than Houston? Heck no? In terms of Woody, I wasn't talking about the QB. I was talking about the rebuild. This should have been done 3 years ago, but Woody likes to win to keep out of the back pages. I noticed you still haven't named the player the Jets ran out of town too soon. I'm looking forward to your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 hours ago, gEYno said: It's year 3 and Mac has no QB and he just took a SS over one with potential. The only way this doesn't look bad is if Watson is terrible. Thus far, he's far from it. You keep talking about Watson being in a better situation in Houston. That's true. But, again... Year 3. The reason the NYJ situation is bad is because of Mac. He's to blame. Lastly, as for running a QB out of town too soon, name the player that fans have done this with. Seriously, fans like you keep saying this, but then never bring the goods with a relevant example of a player that the fans ran out of town and then they became a good player. So, let's hear it. Cool so tell me where Macc has whiffed. Here is who the Jets have actually been in a position to draft since he's been here: 2017 10 Patrick Mahomes QB Texas Tech Patrick Mahomes 12 Deshaun Watson QB Clemson Deshaun Watson 2 52 DeShone Kizer QB Notre Dame DeShone Kizer 3 87 Davis Webb QB California Davis Webb 3 104 C.J. Beathard QB Iowa C.J. Beathard 4 135 Joshua Dobbs QB Tennessee Joshua Dobbs 5 171 Nathan Peterman QB Pittsburgh Nathan Peterman 6 215 Brad Kaaya QB Miami (Fla.) Brad Kaaya 7 253 Chad Kelly QB Mississippi Chad Kelly 2016 Paxton Lynch QB Memphis Denver Broncos 3 91 Jacoby Brissett QB North Carolina State New England Patriots 3 93 Cody Kessler QB USC Cleveland Browns 4 100 Connor Cook QB Michigan State Oakland Raiders 4 135 Dak Prescott QB Mississippi State Dallas Cowboys 4 139 Cardale Jones QB Ohio State Buffalo Bills 5 162 Kevin Hogan QB Stanford Kansas City Chiefs 6 187 Nate Sudfeld QB Indiana Washington Redskins 6 191 Jake Rudock QB Michigan Detroit Lions 6 201 Brandon Allen QB Arkansas Jacksonville Jaguars 6 207 Jeff Driskel QB Louisiana Tech San Francisco 49ers 7 223 Brandon Doughty QB Western Kentucky Miami Dolphins 2015 3 75 Garrett Grayson QB Colorado State New Orleans Saints 3 89 Sean Mannion QB Oregon State St. Louis Rams 4 103 Bryce Petty QB Baylor New York Jets 5 147 Brett Hundley QB UCLA Green Bay Packers 7 250 Trevor Siemian QB Northwestern Denver Broncos Dak looks like the real deal but he was passed by 32 teams 3 times... Watson is putting up video game #'s but he was within reach of almost every team and the Texans, fresh off 45 disastrous QB decisions in a row, seem to have lucked out. So 2 guys out of 26 so far are worth a sh-t... We're to believe this is the irrefutable evidence exhibiting Macc is incapable of drafting a QB, right? Or is this the part where you tell me he should have traded up for Wentz... while not taking into account that's exactly what he tried to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Pac said: Cool so tell me who Macc has whiffed. Here is who the Jets have actually been in a position to draft since he's been here: 2017 10 Patrick Mahomes QB Texas Tech Patrick Mahomes 12 Deshaun Watson QB Clemson Deshaun Watson 2 52 DeShone Kizer QB Notre Dame DeShone Kizer 3 87 Davis Webb QB California Davis Webb 3 104 C.J. Beathard QB Iowa C.J. Beathard 4 135 Joshua Dobbs QB Tennessee Joshua Dobbs 5 171 Nathan Peterman QB Pittsburgh Nathan Peterman 6 215 Brad Kaaya QB Miami (Fla.) Brad Kaaya 7 253 Chad Kelly QB Mississippi Chad Kelly 2016 Paxton Lynch QB Memphis Denver Broncos 3 91 Jacoby Brissett QB North Carolina State New England Patriots 3 93 Cody Kessler QB USC Cleveland Browns 4 100 Connor Cook QB Michigan State Oakland Raiders 4 135 Dak Prescott QB Mississippi State Dallas Cowboys 4 139 Cardale Jones QB Ohio State Buffalo Bills 5 162 Kevin Hogan QB Stanford Kansas City Chiefs 6 187 Nate Sudfeld QB Indiana Washington Redskins 6 191 Jake Rudock QB Michigan Detroit Lions 6 201 Brandon Allen QB Arkansas Jacksonville Jaguars 6 207 Jeff Driskel QB Louisiana Tech San Francisco 49ers 7 223 Brandon Doughty QB Western Kentucky Miami Dolphins 2015 3 75 Garrett Grayson QB Colorado State New Orleans Saints 3 89 Sean Mannion QB Oregon State St. Louis Rams 4 103 Bryce Petty QB Baylor New York Jets 5 147 Brett Hundley QB UCLA Green Bay Packers 7 250 Trevor Siemian QB Northwestern Denver Broncos Dak looks like the real deal but he was passed by 32 teams 3 times... Watson is putting up video game #'s but he was within reach of almost every team and the Texans, fresh off 45 disastrous QB decisions in a row, seem to have lucked out. So 2 guys out of 26 so far are worth a sh-t... We're to believe this is the irrefutable evidence exhibiting Macc is incapable of drafting a QB, right? Or is this the part where you tell me he should have traded up for Wentz... while not taking into account that's exactly what he tried to do. He drafted Hackenberg in round two and paid Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown a combined $50 million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, T0mShane said: He drafted Hackenberg in round two and paid Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown a combined $50 million dollars. Hackenbergs story isn't over yet... The Fitz decision was a disaster... he tried getting rid of him but no one else would take him.. that was 12 million btw. McCown has been a nice pick up as a veteran mentor on a 1 year deal for the paltry sum of 6 Mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 7 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: MAybe so, but they are being upset because they want to be upset. They can't not exist without being unhappy. 2 DRAFT DAYS RUNNING- I'm upset because I knew from kids who had gone to some camps at PSU Hackenberg was a disaster. And because Watson or Mahomes HAD TO BE THE PICK. A FRICKIN' SAFETY? I am not a scout, but there was no great decisions to make in either case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: It probably is, but people keep harping on Watson this and Watson that when his team has won the same amount of games as the Jets. He's been awesome and I know he's not the reason for why his team has a losing record. But it seems to me that his value right now has been in style points and stats. IF he can start to win some of those games, then it changes Touchdowns, passing yards, overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 43 minutes ago, gEYno said: I noticed you still haven't named the player the Jets ran out of town too soon. I'm looking forward to your response. Danny Woodhead, Marcus Williams etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bugg said: Touchdowns, passing yards, overrated. In this NFL passing yards are overrated by a mile. A bad QB can throw for 200 yards in a game. As for TDs, they are not but when they could easily come via the run, say at the one yard line why count them as a magnificent feat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, NoBowles said: My main point is in very, very few NFL scenarios does the HC not have a major say on the personnel choices. Final say should always go to the GM, but there is a reason why HC's are in the draft room, and at the combine. I also think it would be irresponsible for a GM to be acting without working very closely to his HC in every scenario. I think to absolve Bowls of the roster is unfair, just as its unfair to absolve Mac. I think they both have their hand in this roster. You can argue and debate percentages for each one of them, but I would be shocked if Mac has setup this roster in a vacuum without a ton of input from Bowles. This is why I think in 99% of scenarios in the NFL, the HC and the GM should be tied together at the hip. And from what I have seen from the two combined, neither is good enough individually, and especially not together, to warrant keeping them both around. But, I think the absolute worst thing would be to fire one without firing the other. If that happened in a well run org, you would say that the owner is smart enough to understand how things worked the past 3 years and was intelligently able to decipher who the blame goes to, and make that decision. But there is no way in hell anyone in FP has the ability to do that IMO. Will say looks like a committee type decision. Oh, let's all get along. And Bowles was smiling ear to ear on draft day. A someone else has said, the 2016 offense was hot garbage and they spend 4 months forgetting how awful it was instead of taking a strong does of reality. And then proceeded to ignore the offense and QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 I mean the fact that geYno kept responding to me all day trying to push misery tells me all I need to know. He wouldn't be spending his time here doing this if he truly wanted to be happy. Responding to a schmuck that disagrees with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: In this NFL passing yards are overrated by a mile. A bad QB can throw for 200 yards in a game. As for TDs, they are not but when they could easily come via the run, say at the one yard line why count them as a magnificent feat If I didn't know Max had integrity (compared to..) would think you were some kind of post generating algorithm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bugg said: If I didn't know Max had integrity (compared to..) would think you were some kind of post generating algorithm. I'll take that as a compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 24 minutes ago, Pac said: Hackenbergs story isn't over yet... The Fitz decision was a disaster... he tried getting rid of him but no one else would take him.. that was 12 million btw. McCown has been a nice pick up as a veteran mentor on a 1 year deal for the paltry sum of 6 Mil. This is some sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, T0mShane said: This is some sh*t. The first part is. The second part is not. YOu obviously want to be 0-16 so whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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