How much criticism should Macc be getting for whiffing on Watson?

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

YOu obviously want to be 0-16

 

[Spoot-Face]

29 minutes ago, Pac said:

The Fitz decision was a disaster...  he tried getting rid of him but no one else would take him..  that was 12 million btw.

Wait a minute...

Are you saying that Macc tried getting rid of a player--who was not even under contract for 2016--by hoping that some other team would sign him, and when no one did, was like, "Well shucks, I tried, but I gotta sign ol' Beardy McGee now or else he's gonna be put down, and I better guarantee that 12 million, just to be safe".

[HighPitch]

8 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No. Because changing could lead to worse results. At some point there will come a time when Maccagnan work would be so low that there is no risk in switching. We are not at that point yet. We may be at that point next year

Whofan......i swear to god......this isnt a personal attack, but you irritate me constantly with your grass is greener narritives.

i just felt my bowels shift, a pain followed and i blew chunky brown liquid all over my toilet. I had to clean it with the brush thing cus 2 flushes wouldnt.

your like the guy who made it onto one of the titanic lifeboats and proceed to explain to the others that its not " that bad" and its a beautiful clear night to be on the water

[RSJ]

You guys would have been unbearable in 2004 if the Jets passed on Michael Vick.

[Pac]

5 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Wait a minute...

Are you saying that Macc tried getting rid of a player--who was not even under contract for 2016--by hoping that some other team would sign him, and when no one did, was like, "Well shucks, I tried, but I gotta sign ol' Beardy McGee now or else he's gonna be put down, and I better guarantee that 12 million, just to be safe".

No.  I'm saying he clearly viewed him as an integral player and demonstrated his commitment to him by dangling him out for anyone to sign and offering him a 1 year contract when he finally did come back.

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, RSJ said:

You guys would have been unbearable in 2004 if the Jets passed on Michael Vick.

They were unbearable for a year when they passed on Paxton Lynch.

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, Pac said:

No.  I'm saying he clearly viewed him as an integral player and demonstrated his commitment to him by dangling him out for anyone to sign and offering him a 1 year contract when he finally did come back.

I take it this is sarcasm, and that you mean that Macc didn't view Fitz as long-term solution, and was happily gonna let Fitz walk if he wanted. Okay, fine, but it turns out, though, that no one else saw Fitz as a viable enough option as a starting QB either, and Macc ended up guaranteeing $12 million to a player that--as I assume you're positioning--he didn't even believe in, and for what ended up being some of the worst QB play we've seen in recent years.

That move flat out stunk and failed, and hindsight or not, it's a fair indictment on Macc's resume. And it's even more compounded by the fact that Macc has failed to be able to bring in any young QB that's been able to compete with these old, average-at-best, single-year-contract, hold-the-fort QBs that he's bringing in.

[Spoot-Face]

19 minutes ago, HighPitch said:

Whofan......i swear to god......this isnt a personal attack, but you irritate me constantly with your grass is greener narritives.

i just felt my bowels shift, a pain followed and i blew chunky brown liquid all over my toilet. I had to clean it with the brush thing cus 2 flushes wouldnt.

your like the guy who made it onto one of the titanic lifeboats and proceed to explain to the others that its not " that bad" and its a beautiful clear night to be on the water

April 15th, 1912, sometime after midnight, somewhere in the North Atlantic:

UnitedWhoFans stands on the deck of the Titanic. He looks over to his wife and smirks.

"And you said I looked silly when I packed my flood pants, but who's cuffs are bone-dry now? Everything's coming up WhoFans!"

[Spoot-Face]

23 minutes ago, Pac said:

They were unbearable for a year when they passed on Paxton Lynch.

To be fair, we're always quite unbearable. It's because we the fans are just an extension of this unbearable franchise.

[Pac]

8 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I take it this is sarcasm, and that you mean that Macc didn't view Fitz as long-term solution, and was happily gonna let Fitz walk if he wanted. Okay, fine, but it turns out, though, that no one else saw Fitz as a viable enough option as a starting QB either, and Macc ended up guaranteeing $12 million to a player that--as I assume you're positioning--he didn't even believe in, and for what ended up being some of the worst QB play we've seen in recent years.

That move flat out stunk and failed, and hindsight or not, it's a fair indictment on Macc's resume. And it's even more compounded by the fact that Macc has failed to be able to bring in any young QB that's been able to compete with these old, average-at-best, single-year-contract, hold-the-fort QBs that he's bringing in.

Go to the last page and answer the question that no one seems to want to answer.  Who are the good QB's Macc has passed on.  It's not a hard question.. 

You don't have to sell to me that Fitz was a disastrous decision.  I was screaming to not resign him then to bench him.  He was a complete disgrace.

Macc seemed to know as much with the low ball offer but he had to hear for 6 months the the Jets "needed Fitz back".  Was a tough spot but I'm happy he made it easy to get rid of him.

[Matt39]

27 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I take it this is sarcasm, and that you mean that Macc didn't view Fitz as long-term solution, and was happily gonna let Fitz walk if he wanted. Okay, fine, but it turns out, though, that no one else saw Fitz as a viable enough option as a starting QB either, and Macc ended up guaranteeing $12 million to a player that--as I assume you're positioning--he didn't even believe in, and for what ended up being some of the worst QB play we've seen in recent years.

That move flat out stunk and failed, and hindsight or not, it's a fair indictment on Macc's resume. And it's even more compounded by the fact that Macc has failed to be able to bring in any young QB that's been able to compete with these old, average-at-best, single-year-contract, hold-the-fort QBs that he's bringing in.

Bringing Fitz back on a one year deal to try and squeeze one last year out of the trio is pretty low on the list of Maccagnan's terrible decisions. Doubling down with the same guy in Mccown while two QB's were available at 6 to draft a safety is at the top.

[Spoot-Face]

6 minutes ago, Pac said:

Go to the last page and answer the question that no one seems to want to answer.  Who are the good QB's Macc has passed on.  It's not a hard question.. 

I'll be 100% honest and say I have no f*cking clue. I'm not a scout, nor do I watch a lot of college football. But I don't think that precludes me from being able to question Macc, a man who is paid to be able to answer that question.

Were Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg really the best options in 2015 and 2016? How about 2017 when he didn't draft anyone? Now, I'm not one of the guys that harp about how Watson clearly should have been the pick over Adams, because I didn't know who either of them were at the time, so I'm not gonna start with that argument now. But, the fact remains that through three drafts, Macc has drafted only 2 QBs, neither of whom seem ready or capable of being our guy. And, if the plan this year was for Hack to take emerge as the unequivocal starter, than we absolutely should slate Macc for passing on every QB in 2017, if all it took was a single offseason and preseason, after a red-shirt year, to see that Hack isn't the guy.

I don't know who Macc should've picked instead of Bryce and Hack, but it doesn't appear like Mike knows the answer to that question either. He knew coming in to this job that there was a serious question mark at the most important position in the game, and so far it appears he's missed on 2/2 chances, and he didn't even swing on the 3rd.

22 minutes ago, Pac said:

You don't have to sell to me that Fitz was a disastrous decision.  I was screaming to not resign him then to bench him.  He was a complete disgrace.

Awesome, we agree on this.

 

22 minutes ago, Pac said:

Macc seemed to know as much with the low ball offer but he had to hear for 6 months the the Jets "needed Fitz back".  Was a tough spot but I'm happy he made it easy to get rid of him.

True, Mac wasn't helped at all by Bowles anointing Fitz the starter before he was even under contract. That was a completely brain dead move which gave Fitz all the leverage. Perhaps $12 million guaranteed at one year was the absolute cheapest we could've gotten him. And, yes, I recognize that it could've been a lot worse a la the Tanny/Sanchez extension.

[Spoot-Face]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Bringing Fitz back on a one year deal to try and squeeze one last year out of the trio is pretty low on the list of Maccagnan's terrible decisions. Doubling down with the same guy in Mccown while two QB's were available at 6 to draft a safety is at the top.

Yeah, you're right, Fitz's 2nd contract alone is not the worst thing Macc has done, but when you put it in context with all his other QB moves, it still makes you cringe.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

Cool so tell me where Macc has whiffed.  Here is who the Jets have actually been in a position to draft since he's been here:

 

2017

10

Patrick Mahomes

QB

Texas Tech

Patrick Mahomes

	12	Deshaun Watson	QB	Clemson	Deshaun Watson
2	52	DeShone Kizer	QB	Notre Dame	DeShone Kizer
3	87	Davis Webb	QB	California	Davis Webb
3	104	C.J. Beathard	QB	Iowa	C.J. Beathard
4	135	Joshua Dobbs	QB	Tennessee	Joshua Dobbs
5	171	Nathan Peterman	QB	Pittsburgh	Nathan Peterman
6	215	Brad Kaaya	QB	Miami (Fla.)	Brad Kaaya
7	253	Chad Kelly	QB	Mississippi	Chad Kelly

 

2016

	Paxton Lynch	QB	Memphis	Denver Broncos
3	91	Jacoby Brissett	QB	North Carolina State	New England Patriots
3	93	Cody Kessler	QB	USC	Cleveland Browns
4	100	Connor Cook	QB	Michigan State	Oakland Raiders
4	135	Dak Prescott	QB	Mississippi State	Dallas Cowboys
4	139	Cardale Jones	QB	Ohio State	Buffalo Bills
5	162	Kevin Hogan	QB	Stanford	Kansas City Chiefs
6	187	Nate Sudfeld	QB	Indiana	Washington Redskins
6	191	Jake Rudock	QB	Michigan	Detroit Lions
6	201	Brandon Allen	QB	Arkansas	Jacksonville Jaguars
6	207	Jeff Driskel	QB	Louisiana Tech	San Francisco 49ers
7	223	Brandon Doughty	QB	Western Kentucky	Miami Dolphins

 

2015

3	75	Garrett Grayson	QB	Colorado State	New Orleans Saints
3	89	Sean Mannion	QB	Oregon State	St. Louis Rams
4	103	Bryce Petty	QB	Baylor	New York Jets
5	147	Brett Hundley	QB	UCLA	Green Bay Packers
7	250	Trevor Siemian	QB	Northwestern	Denver Broncos

 

Dak looks like the real deal but he was passed by 32 teams 3 times...  Watson is putting up video game #'s but he was within reach of almost every team and the Texans, fresh off 45 disastrous QB decisions in a row, seem to have lucked out.

So 2 guys out of 26 so far are worth a sh-t... We're to believe this is the irrefutable evidence exhibiting Macc is incapable of drafting a QB, right?  Or is this the part where you tell me he should have traded up for Wentz... while not taking into account that's exactly what he tried to do.

You didn't intend this, but your list actually makes passing on Watson even more egregious, considering the limited opportunities to get a guy with that kind of upside.  Instead we took a SS with limited upside for the locker room benefits.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

They were unbearable for a year when they passed on Paxton Lynch.

Which is probably still a mistake considering who we did pick.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

Hackenbergs story isn't over yet...

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaagagahhahagaga

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Danny Woodhead, Marcus Williams etc

Evidence supporting fan involvement in their departure?  Fans loved Woodhead and Marcus Williams was irrelevant, and still is, no?  You haven't suggested anyone the fans rallied against who went on to a great career, because, that person doesn't exist.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I mean the fact that geYno kept responding to me all day trying to push misery tells me all I need to know. He wouldn't be spending his time here doing this if he truly wanted to be happy. Responding to a schmuck that disagrees with him

Calling yourself a schmuck is maybe the only accurate thing you've said all  day, but definitely the only one with this post.  You're a dreadful armchair psychologist, give it a rest.

[kevinc855]

We shoulda really took Paxton Lynch ?

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, Bugg said:

If I didn't know Max had integrity (compared to..) would think you were some kind of post generating algorithm.  

You nailed it. Like a robot programmed to see the positives

[HighPitch]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

April 15th, 1912, sometime after midnight, somewhere in the North Atlantic:

UnitedWhoFans stands on the deck of the Titanic. He looks over to his wife and smirks.

"And you said I looked silly when I packed my flood pants, but who's cuffs are bone-dry now? Everything's coming up WhoFans!"

"boats sink sometimes hun, it happens. But it doesnt mean that other boats arent being welded up in shipyards all over the world as we speak. Its not the captains fault sir that we hit an iceberg, thats an act of god. Cant blame the captain. The crew is helping us off this boat and we can take a better trip in the future. No need to complain. Look, the woman with the baby over there is weeping, she obviously chooses to be miserable.... "

[Pac]

54 minutes ago, gEYno said:

You didn't intend this, but your list actually makes passing on Watson even more egregious, considering the limited opportunities to get a guy with that kind of upside.  Instead we took a SS with limited upside for the locker room benefits.

You didn't intend this, but you just told me that you blame Macc for not getting a QB in 3 years but the only one he "egregiously" passed on was drafted 6 months ago.

[Pac]

53 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaagagahhahagaga

Does it look promising?  Not particularly.

Is it over?  No.

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Spoot-Face said:

I'll be 100% honest and say I have no f*cking clue. I'm not a scout, nor do I watch a lot of college football. But I don't think that precludes me from being able to question Macc, a man who is paid to be able to answer that question.

 

You don't have to be a scout or watch college football to look at the list of players and see who is playing well.  There's no problem questioning Macc but the fiery rhetoric and pitchforks seem kind of silly when you actually see the facts.

[Spoot-Face]

3 minutes ago, Pac said:

Does it look promising?  Not particularly.

Is it over?  No.

I know you didn't intend this, but this sounds more like a threat than a promise of hope.

[Pac]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

I know you didn't intend this, but this sounds more like a threat than a promise of hope.

When backed into a corner I come out swinging Green Jets and Ham style..  If you got a problem go to the Firestone on Maple Ave in Billings Montana and come see me..  ask for Ric.

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

You don't have to be a scout or watch college football to look at the list of players and see who is playing well.  There's no problem questioning Macc but the fiery rhetoric and pitchforks seem kind of silly when you actually see the facts.

So, you're saying that in hindsight there was no one better for Macc to pick? Fair.

I'm so glad that Macc had the hindsight in the present to know that those QBs wouldn't be playing well in the future.

[Pac]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

So, you're saying that in hindsight there was no one better for Macc to pick? Fair.

I'm so glad that Macc had the hindsight in the present to know that those QBs wouldn't be playing well in the future.

You're better than this.  He had the foresight to know almost all of them wouldn't amount to anything.

I'm ok with a swing and a miss in the 4th round or mid 2nd.  Everyone screams he has to take a chance and draft QB's but then complains when the ones he's taken haven't panned out as of yet.  It's bizarro logic.

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

When backed into a corner I come out swinging Green Jets and Ham style..  If you got a problem go to the Firestone on Maple Ave in Billings Montana and come see me..  ask for Ric.

I've heard tell of this infamous "Green Jets and Ham", but I know not the origins of this joke.

 

[Pac]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

I've heard tell of this infamous "Green Jets and Ham", but I know not the origins of this joke.

 

It's a classic..  EY can tell you all about it.

 

[ZachEY]

16 minutes ago, Pac said:

You didn't intend this, but you just told me that you blame Macc for not getting a QB in 3 years but the only one he "egregiously" passed on was drafted 6 months ago.

He should have also given up more to get Wentz.  Considering he wasted most of those picks he didn't give up for Wentz anyway.  So, there were at least two.  He also could have gone for Dak over Hackenberg, but you mentioned those already.  He also may not have gotten a franchise QB, but after 3 years, he has Josh McCown and two guys worse than Josh McCown.  He's failed, spectacularly.

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, Pac said:

You're better than this.  He had the foresight to know almost all of them wouldn't amount to anything.

I'm ok with a swing and a miss in the 4th round or mid 2nd.  Everyone screams he has to take a chance and draft QB's but then complains when the ones he's taken haven't panned out as of yet.  It's bizarro logic.

WHERE WAS THAT FORESIGHT WHEN HE TOOK HACKENBERG THEN??

 

 

Sorry I yelled. Really, my biggest problem isn't that he took Petty in the 4th, who hasn't amounted to anything yet, or that he followed that up with taking Hack in the 2nd, who also hasn't amounted to anything yet. But when he failed to take anyone in this past draft, followed by both Petty and Hack buried on the depth chart underneath Josh f*cking McCown, I really start to question his ability to evaluate talent. THAT is the problem here; not that he swung and missed twice on the hardest to find position. I believe I remember listening to an interview of his back in 2015 before the season, where he was talking about having a pipeline of QBs and pass-rushers where you take one every year. Macc's pipeline only seems to be hooked up to a factory that sh*ts out irregular shaped bricks that empty out onto the heads' of baby seals.

[Spoot-Face]

6 minutes ago, Pac said:

It's a classic..  EY can tell you all about it.

 

Is it as classic as the legend of Teh Falcon? I remember hearing references of that when I joined here and I went back to find old threads of that. Classic stuff.

[ZachEY]

18 minutes ago, Pac said:

You don't have to be a scout or watch college football to look at the list of players and see who is playing well.  There's no problem questioning Macc but the fiery rhetoric and pitchforks seem kind of silly when you actually see the facts.

Now do the list for other positions!  Mac's failure at the QB position is just the headline.  Let's talk about how the team isn't actually any better than the one he took over...

[Spoot-Face]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

He should have also given up more to get Wentz.  Considering he wasted most of those picks he didn't give up for Wentz anyway.  So, there were at least two.  He also could have gone for Dak over Hackenberg, but you mentioned those already.  He also may not have gotten a franchise QB, but after 3 years, he has Josh McCown and two guys worse than Josh McCown.  He's failed, spectacularly.

Hey, now. Perhaps he just simply didn't have enough ammunition to move up, or was not comfortable to commit so many resources into Wentz. I can't entirely blame him there.

WHICH IS WHY I'M SO F*CKING THRILLED WITH OUR 3 MORAL VICTORIES.

I find it funny when people say: "Don't worry about not tanking. You can always trade up." Uh, no, you f*cking can't.