An inside look at the Jets' decision to pass on Deshaun Watson

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

"I saw Watson in camp during the summer and Josh McCown is my starter".  - Todd Bowles, October, 2017.

“Haha. Deshaun’s a good kid and works at it every day, but he’s a work in progress Josh has been around a long time and...”

[jetrider]

8 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Watson would be sitting the bench watching and learning from Josh McCown. Probably in street clothes. 

People don't get that. They think what happens in Houston will automatically happen in Flo Park. 

 

[slats]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

What this tells me is this regime doesnt overly value the importance of finding a QB to build with long term. The kick the can down the road strategy with guys like Fitz and Mccown just looks like self preservation at this point. Coupled with the fact theyve used two high first rounders on "Best player in the draft!" safe selections on positions that dont get you fired. The issue now is they'll probably draft a QB first next year who isnt as strong of a prospect as Watson or Mahomes.

 

This is the crux of it for me. NFL coaches and executives are generally conservative by nature, but the Jets' dynamic duo is downright timid. The only doubt I have about them being too scared to draft a "questionable" QB in Watson at #6 is my gut feeling that them now referring to Watson as their #2 QB, and that Bowles absolutely loved him, is most likely revisionist history. They're scared to death of being attached to another bust. It's all about self-preservation. And you're right, next year they'll reach for a QB because of all the criticism they've (deservedly) gotten this year at the position. 

If McCown remains the starter the rest of the year, and the Jets don't win more than two more games, I could see these guys getting canned - and I really thought they were safe next year heading into this season. Or maybe I'm just hoping they get fired. This product of theirs in completely uninspired. 

[UntouchableCrew]

This article really just reinforces what anyone who's been paying attention to the Jets the last three years already knows -- that Mike Macagnan is clueless when it comes to evaluating quarterbacks. He's not the worst GM ever like some purport but he's been so bad at the most important position on the field that it's hard to imagine he should be given the chance to pick our next QB. We'll probably end up with Josh Allen redshirting 2018 if we do.

[peebag]

2 minutes ago, jetrider said:

People don't get that. They think what happens in Houston will automatically happen in Flo Park. 

 

No, most likely Watson (or any young qb for that matter) would most likely struggle.  BUT most Jet fans were prepared for that this year.  We wanted to see growth from the position. I didn't want to see a moldy old qb struggle to get 3-6 wins then go into next year in the same situation as this year at the position, with whole lot of questions about our young qbs.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

No, most likely Watson (or any young qb for that matter) would most likely struggle.  BUT most Jet fans were prepared for that this year.  We wanted to see growth from the position. I didn't want to see a moldy old qb struggle to get 3-6 wins then go into next year in the same situation as this year at the position, with whole lot of questions about our young qbs.

Exactly.  We have NO chance to be in any better position at QB next summer than we did this summer.  If we had tried and failed with Petty (or even Hack) then this was a year we could have accepted that.  But we are treading water while almost everyone else is swimming in some direction.  It sucks.

[Pac]

14 minutes ago, gEYno said:

You're right pac.  The jets are actually not bad and are on the right track to success.

Finally.  

[T0mShane]

Lost in all this is that Adams isn’t that good.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

This is the crux of it for me. NFL coaches and executives are generally conservative by nature, but the Jets' dynamic duo is downright timid. The only doubt I have about them being too scared to draft a "questionable" QB in Watson at #6 is my gut feeling that them now referring to Watson as their #2 QB, and that Bowles absolutely loved him, is most likely revisionist history. They're scared to death of being attached to another bust. It's all about self-preservation. And you're right, next year they'll reach for a QB because of all the criticism they've (deservedly) gotten this year at the position. 

If McCown remains the starter the rest of the year, and the Jets don't win more than two more games, I could see these guys getting canned - and I really thought they were safe next year heading into this season. Or maybe I'm just hoping they get fired. This product of theirs in completely uninspired. 

I dont think they will tbh. The national media is too busy crushing the Browns to worry about the Jets. I mean Rich Eisen for instance was tweeting this morning how Adams has been "terrific." Leonard Williams casually gets billed as a great player too. The one thing Maccagnan and Bowles have done  well for themsleves is hedging.

[sourceworx]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

In fairness, there’s a less than zero chance that Bowles would have had to guts to play Watson.

Sad but true. If Bowles is retained after this season, then the only QBs we should be looking at are Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith. They're the only QB options that Bowles will give the light of day to. 

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Lost in all this is that Adams isn’t that good.

You can't say that for at least 4 more solstices.  

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Lost in all this is that Adams isn’t that good.

Drafting guys like Williams, Adams, and even Lee- it's easy for these guys to get lost in the shuffle. Gholston was graded on sacks, CB's/LT's get put on an island like an outfielder misjudging a line drive, and obviously QB's frying pan fire. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Exactly.  We have NO chance to be in any better position at QB next summer than we did this summer.  If we had tried and failed with Petty (or even Hack) then this was a year we could have accepted that.  But we are treading water while almost everyone else is swimming in some direction.  It sucks.

you just wonder what mccags is waiting for, when does he stake his reputation on a scout and draft a qb and say this is the guy?  he's had 3 drafts, he passed on dak/watson and didn't mortgage the farm to trade up for wentz or goff.  but really, how many years does a new gm deserve to draft 'his guy' rather than taking flyers on 2nd and 4th round guys, and yeah, a 2nd round pick is high, but it's still not the end of the world.  it's perplexing and maddening, it's as if he thinks he's got a decade to wait around until destiny shines on his draft board and he takes the guy at #6 who just happens to be the 6th highest rated prospect AND is a qb.  

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Drafting guys like Williams, Adams, and even Lee- it's easy for these guys to get lost in the shuffle. Gholston was graded on sacks, CB's/LT's get put on an island like an outfielder misjudging a line drive, and obviously QB's frying pan fire. 

fear of failing.

[jetrider]

13 minutes ago, peebag said:

No, most likely Watson (or any young qb for that matter) would most likely struggle.  BUT most Jet fans were prepared for that this year.  We wanted to see growth from the position. I didn't want to see a moldy old qb struggle to get 3-6 wins then go into next year in the same situation as this year at the position, with whole lot of questions about our young qbs.

Same here. Signing McCown before the draft was a cop-out, same as naming Fitz the starter without a contract. QB program swept under the rug.

Watson found the ideal team, system, and environment. A proven HC/OC instead of a D-minded novice HC and a rookie OC.  

[MDL_JET]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

Sad but true. If Bowles is retained after this season, then the only QBs we should be looking at are Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith. They're the only QB options that Bowles will give the light of day to. 

Based on the article, if true, they'll be going hard after Cousins or Smith or they'll be going after the top QB in the draft. They want a plug and play QB and drafting a guy like Mayfield or whoever would just clutter the bullpen as it says. 

It'd be helpful if they actually saw one of the two play this season so they could, ya know, declutter. 

 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

Based on the article, if true, they'll be going hard after Cousins or Smith or they'll be going after the top QB in the draft. They want a plug and play QB and drafting a guy like Mayfield or whoever would just clutter the bullpen as it says. 

It'd be helpful if they actually saw one of the two play this season so they could, ya know, declutter. 

 

doesn't the desire for a 'plug and play' qb fly in the face of all mccags' statements about developing qbs?

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Same here. Signing McCown before the draft was a copout, same as naming Fitz the starter without a contract. QB program swept under the rug.

 

it was a copout b/c he knew the head coach would play mccown over the guys he drafted, so in a way he figured out a way to hide the reality that his drafted qbs suck without having to endure an entire season of watching them suck in regular season games, thereby redirecting a lot of criticism onto other people.  ingenious.

[MDL_JET]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

doesn't the desire for a 'plug and play' qb fly in the face of all mccags' statements about developing qbs?

Who the hell knows anymore. Macs gotta feel the pressure. They've seen Hack fall flat on his face in preseason, and can't be confident at all with him. Petty is what he is, a back up. You've watched Watson have a ROY type season (so far) and Wentz, who you tried to get, play at a MVP level. You can't keep putting 38 yr old QBs out there. 

I can't fathom him sitting at whatever position we get and not go after the best QB in the draft. But then again...

[jetrider]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

it was a copout b/c Bowles knew he would play mccown over the guys he drafted, so in a way he figured out a way to hide the reality that his qb program sucks without having to endure an entire season of watching them suck in regular season games, thereby redirecting a lot of criticism onto other people.  ingenious.

Fixed

[Augustiniak]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

Who the hell knows anymore. Macs gotta feel the pressure. They've seen Hack fall flat on his face in preseason, and can't be confident at all with him. Petty is what he is, a back up. You've watched Watson have a ROY type season (so far) and Wentz, who you tried to get, play at a MVP level. You can't keep putting 38 yr old QBs out there. 

I can't fathom him sitting at whatever position we get and not go after the best QB in the draft. But then again...

he's shown no sense of urgency, rather, he's been almost smug about the whole qb process, hiding behind 'BAP' scoutspeak.  truth, i think he signed mccown before the draft, b/c he knew that 1) he probably wasn't taking a qb early in the draft, if at all;  2) he knew bowles would name mccown the starter in training camp, thereby hiding his drafted qbs during the season, and 3) he liked the crop of qbs coming out in 2018 and figured he would use the 2017 draft to add as much overall talent as he could, then take his home run swing in 2018 when he felt he had a better chance of finding a qb.

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Based on the article, if true, they'll be going hard after Cousins or Smith

Knowing both Bowles and Macc's seemingly endless love for Veteran QB's, and complete impatience with young QB's, this above is one of my biggest fears.  Jets go all-in and blow the bank to get a "superstar" veteran in a year when all the available veterans are barely average talents at best.

I fear the draft will then ignore the QB position again (because Hack, of course) and go heavy on....wait for it.....Defense.

Same ol' Jets M.O. if so.  I hope they prove me wrong.

[#27TheDominator]

I think he signed McCown because the general rule is to fill all your holes pre-draft and get yourself a decent floor.  Unless it is someone that you truly love, that should not prevent you from drafting ANYBODY.  This is particularly true for a guy who felt it was fine to draft Williams with Wilkerson, Richardson,  and Coples.  Hell, they had Snacks and Douzable and let Kerry Hyder walk from their practice squad because they were so stacked.

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

This article pretty much sums everything up and is a summary of why MaccBowles need to go.

Adams gunghoness clearly was a factor above his athleticism.  It's not like Watson is a bad character.  

Hack was also clearly misscouted.   Can someone start sending John Dorsey NJ house listings?

By every account Watson was arguably the best attitude of any player in the draft. There are no bad stories about the kid, everything is lemon yellow sunshine and lollipops. And by contrast Hackenberg in his year was hated by everyone at PSU and a dick in predraft interviews. Again, indicates Macaganan is a scout that thinks he's playing "I got a secret" and looks for reasons not to do the obvious-which was 1. DON'T PICK HACKENNEBERG IN 2016 AT ALL AND 2. GRAB WATSON LIKE COLD ICY DEATH IN 2017. And in 2016 probably had a coach that said "We just signed our QB in McCown and I want a safety to play MY defense".   

First week in January, fired them both. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think he signed McCown because the general rule is to fill all your holes pre-draft and get yourself a decent floor.  

if mccags thought qb was such a 'hole' before the draft, then it's an admission the two qbs he drafted pretty much suck.  he didn't sign mccown to be a stop gap in case hack and petty fail, he was brought here to 'compete' for the starting position which we all knew he would win.

increasingly i get the feeling there's more animosity behind the scenes between bowles and mccagnan.  bowles' recent comment that he's seen the two young qbs and josh is our starter, that says a lot, especially considering mccags signed mccown to 'compete' with his own drafted qbs.  i am no fan of bowles but i think the reality is, petty and hack suck balls and bowles can't say it, and neither can morton.  mccags can't have it both ways, he can't sit here and cite a developmental qb program while he keeps signing veterans that clearly outplay the guys he drafts. 

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

I think starting the rebuild in year 3 might be the greatest career-extension ploy I’ve seen in my time watching the NFL. And there’s. Have been some doozies over time.

This has gone from being about winning football games to snowing the owners over enough to keep the corner offices for as long as possible. And this ownership is buying this crap. 

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

In fairness, there’s a less than zero chance that Bowles would have had to guts to play Watson.

Sadly true. 

[Bugg]

52 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Drafting guys like Williams, Adams, and even Lee- it's easy for these guys to get lost in the shuffle. Gholston was graded on sacks, CB's/LT's get put on an island like an outfielder misjudging a line drive, and obviously QB's frying pan fire. 

If you want to hide out and hang onto your job, you can sell Calvin Pryor for 2+ years. Derrick Carr, he has to either get it or fall on his face. And when you have risk adverse pussy boys running things, no wonder what they pick. 

[bla bla bla]

5 minutes ago, Bugg said:

By every account Watson was arguably the best attitude of any player in the draft. There are no bad stories about the kid, everything is lemon yellow sunshine and lollipops. And by contrast Hackenberg in his year was hated by everyone at PSU and a dick in predraft interviews. Again, indicates Macaganan is a scout that thinks he's playing "I got a secret" and looks for reasons not to do the obvious-which was 1. DON'T PICK HACKENNEBERG IN 2016 AT ALL AND 2. GRAB WATSON LIKE COLD ICY DEATH IN 2017. And in 2016 probably had a coach that said "We just signed our QB in McCown and I want a safety to play MY defense".   

First week in January, fired them both. 

And yet was still the 3rd QB taken because scouts didn't know what to make of him. He was drafted by one of the best teams that was just missing a QB, perfect storm IMO.

“Per two personnel sources on two separate teams who have shown interest in drafting Penn State’s Christian Hackenberg, the quarterback has said all the wrong things in interviews when asked to explain his declining sophomore and junior numbers (a combined 28 touchdowns and 21 interceptions). Hackenberg has shifted blame to coach James Franklin, who took over in 2014 when coach Bill O’Brien departed for the Texans. Said one evaluator: “Despite the fact that it’s probably true, you don’t want to hear a kid say that.”

I'm assuming this is what you are referring to with Hack. I don't really see anything wrong with blaming the new system for short comings after you have a promising first year. Bad pick in the end but if teams believed he was a work in progress and COULD have been something special had the system not changed then I understand the thought process. If the gamble paid off them it would look like the best pick we've ever made, a little easier to swallow than missing on a 1st round QB or worse trading up for a 1st round QB and wiffing.

 

I don't blame them for not taking a QB in this draft since they wanted to see what Hack and Petty had before investing a 1st in a QB. Not to mention the 2018 class of QBs looked far more promising. I understand the BPA and see what the QBs have on the roster (which is why McCown didn't play Preseason) and then reassess after the season when you have $80M+ in cap and a few good FA QBs available.

[Lupz27]

4 hours ago, Stark said:

This article confirms my fear. Mac doesn't know what a good QB is. To say Trubisky was the only QB worthy of the 6th pick... well we are screwed next draft

Josh Allen next JETS QB.... FML... 

 

If Mac trades up and takes Allen with Rosen or Darnold on the board...... help us all

I had Trubisky as the 3rd QB last draft IMO

This place is going to be nuclear next season with Josh Allen sucking balls for the Jets, and to go with Watson looking like a stud, and next season Mahomes lighting the league on fire the same way Watson is now.  Talk about a typical Jets script.  Epic, this place will be epic!

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

This place is going to be nuclear next season with Josh Allen sucking balls for the Jets, and to go with Watson looking like a stud, and next season Mahomes lighting the league on fire the same way Watson is now.  Talk about a typical Jets script.  Epic, this place will be epic!

If we do go Allen then you can add to that how Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph and Jackson look playing for their respective teams while Allen is still 'developing' on our bench.

[Fantasy Island]

mac and bowles are terrible.

Neither one has to answer to the other.

Woody doesn't know squat about football.

Time for Chris to do the right thing and sell the team. 

New owner finds a way to get out of Metlife and gets the Jets a true home stadium.

FO is cleaned out top to bottom and we start out fresh.

 

My dream.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

If we do go Allen then you can add to that how Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph and Jackson look playing for their respective teams while Allen is still 'developing' on our bench.

mccagnan wouldn't take a guy like allen,  he'd draft mcglinchey in the first, the offensive version of leonard williams.  then he'll take a defensive player, probably a cb, then take a low ceiling qb like falk from washington state, and throw him into the farcical qb development program, aka, witness protection program. 

[#27TheDominator]

29 minutes ago, Bugg said:

If you want to hide out and hang onto your job, you can sell Calvin Pryor for 2+ years. Derrick Carr, he has to either get it or fall on his face. And when you have risk adverse pussy boys running things, no wonder what they pick. 

The guy that drafted Calvin Pryor didn't get to sell him very long at all, did he?

[Paradis]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Complete indictment for the failure of the Jets Front Office to correctly evaluate the QB position, and QB prospects.

Failed to properly evaluate Hackenberg.

Failed to properly evaluate Petty's long term worth.

Failed to properly evaluate Watson.

Failed to properly evaluate the value of the QB position vs. the Safety position.

Failed to properly account for the likelyhood of draft positions vs. prospects in the 2108 draft.

Failed to properly manage Fitzpatrick/Geno situation.

Failed to manage the QB assets for the 2017 season (i.e. starting/staying with McCown).

To-date there is very little to recommend this front office when it comes to their management of the QB position, the single most vital position in the game.

 

 

THIS THIS, AND MORE THIS. 

Our GM is paid for this fcking job. It's the most important fcking part of his fcking job. He's blown it in every possible way. 

In our situation, there's only only method of practice. NEXT.