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Colin Kaepernick is being blackballed, and I'm very upset about it


Warfish

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1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Kaep is so sincere about the issue that as soon as he was unemployed, he said he would stand again, because the issues have been "resolved". How convenient....

This is not a left wing or right wing issue like you want to make it out to be...

The NFL's mistake was not stopping the kneeling, and letting it get out of hand. Regardless of what you think about Kaep's original cause, and his sincerity, when you wholesale start boycotting the national anthem, you are making it about America, and all that America stands for. And plenty of people in the middle and right believe there is much more to America than a handful of overhyped, situations. People should protest the issues all they want, it is the right of every American, but when you make it about America the whole, instead of individual incidents, you lose a lot more people that way. The NFL should have nipped this in the bud, but they are too afraid of the players to do so.  

Let me take a wild guess on the race of those "plenty of people"..... The protests that begun as a reaction of a handful of negative experiences involving the police have morphed into stirring conversations about racial injustices that exist in this country. Believe me there are more than a handful of those and they aren't overhyped. 

This issue isn't going away because we now have a group of minorities trying to shed light on a certain subject and a group of people (mostly part of the majority) that are actively trying to:

 1) Change the meanings of the protests - "This isn't about racial inequality, it's about respecting the troops and the flag"

2) Tell the protesters how and when they should protest - "We don't like you protesting this way, do it somewhere I won't see or be bothered by". 

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1 minute ago, JetFreak89 said:

Let me take a wild guess on the race of those "plenty of people"..... The protests that begun as a reaction of a handful of negative experiences involving the police have morphed into stirring conversations about racial injustices that exist in this country. Believe me there are more than a handful of those and they aren't overhyped. 

This issue isn't going away because we now have a group of minorities trying to shed light on a certain subject and a group of people (mostly part of the majority) that are actively trying to:

 1) Change the meanings of the protests - "This isn't about racial inequality, it's about respecting the troops and the flag"

2) Tell the protesters how and when they should protest - "We don't like you protesting this way, do it somewhere I won't see or be bothered by". 

There is a youtuber by the name of e v who does an amazing job explaining this. And you can take a wild guess at his race if you want, but you may be wrong........

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3 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Let me take a wild guess on the race of those "plenty of people"..... The protests that begun as a reaction of a handful of negative experiences involving the police have morphed into stirring conversations about racial injustices that exist in this country. Believe me there are more than a handful of those and they aren't overhyped. 

This issue isn't going away because we now have a group of minorities trying to shed light on a certain subject and a group of people (mostly part of the majority) that are actively trying to:

 1) Change the meanings of the protests - "This isn't about racial inequality, it's about respecting the troops and the flag"

2) Tell the protesters how and when they should protest - "We don't like you protesting this way, do it somewhere I won't see or be bothered by". 

it's more perception than reality, all we have to do is look at the Michael Bennett case for an example of that.

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18 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said:

This article says otherwise:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700218-nfl1000-is-colin-kaepernick-still-starting-quarterback-material-in-the-nfl

It's author started from your "he used to be good but he sucks now" premise, BTW; looking at Kaepernick's numbers and, especially, looking at the game film from last year convinced him otherwise.

Can't really dispute stats I just remember watching some games were he didn't look the same "Not physical appearance wise cause obviously he grew the fro out but like the sharpness in his throws". And they had a terrible record in '16.

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11 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

There is a youtuber by the name of e v who does an amazing job explaining this. And you can take a wild guess at his race if you want, but you may be wrong........

you get all your sociological perspectives from YouTube vids no way I am flummoxed

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2 minutes ago, GATA said:

Can't really dispute stats I just remember watching some games were he didn't look the same "Not physical appearance wise cause obviously he grew the fro out but like the sharpness in his throws". And they had a terrible record in '16.

He did not look good at all once Harbaugh bailed. In fairness, that whole team quit.

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I love the freedom of expression...

Kap I have the right to kneel!

Owners I have the right not to sign Kap, since I don't like his views!

Kap, Hey their black balling me because I was kneeling and don't like my politics..

Millennials, don't understand consequence? 

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35 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said:

This article says otherwise:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700218-nfl1000-is-colin-kaepernick-still-starting-quarterback-material-in-the-nfl

It's author started from your "he used to be good but he sucks now" premise, BTW; looking at Kaepernick's numbers and, especially, looking at the game film from last year convinced him otherwise.

his #s were decent but he still wasn't good.  he put up good #s against us and was terrible.  he had a few decent games last year and fell short in the few big moments he had.  the team was 1-4 w/ Gabbert and 1-10 w/ him, they scored the mo9st points of the season w/ Gabbert under C. In 58 starts w/ SF he led his O to as many as 39 points once time, this year in 6 starts Hoyer led SF to 39 points in a game. 

2016 SF:

w/ Gabbert: 1-4 record, led O to average of 22.2 PPG, highest scoring games were 28 & 27

w/ Kaepernick: 1-10 record, led O to 18 PPG, highest scoring game was 24.

2017 SF:

w/ Hoyer: 0-6, 18.8 PPG

 

Kaepernick just isn't a difference making QB to overcome the circus that would come along with him. I don't care about meaningless individual #s where he may have put up decent #s early in games or late in blowouts.  That doesn't impress me. 

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

All it takes is evidence of one, any, offer or lead on an offer by an NFL Team to Kap than Kap or his agent declined and the suit gets thrown out.

And I'm willing to bet, especially early on, a number of offers for a #2 job-with-chances were put forward and declined.

So no, the NFL shouldn't settle any more than they did on the Brady cheating issue.  

I would take the other side of that bet... I doubt very much that "a number of offers" came for back-up type jobs.  Teams don't want the distraction.  For that, I can't blame them.  However, you can kill Kaepernick for his on-field abilities, but if you want to be fair, he's still better than a lot of QBs starting this weekend.  Teams like the Packers and soon to be the Texans, will be the most egregious examples.  Politics aside, I think he's got a case.

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4 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

I love the freedom of expression...

Kap I have the right to kneel!

Owners I have the right not to sign Kap, since I don't like his views!

Kap, Hey their black balling me because I was kneeling and don't like my politics..

Millennials, don't understand consequence? 

Do they have the right to come together and deny a person employment in this country based on political views?

Can I fire an employee for wearing a MAGA shirt?

I'm pretty sure the laws on such things in the country are clear.

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8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Do they have the right to come together and deny a person employment in this country based on political views?

They should, yes. Being an NFL player is not a human right. If he were, for example, a Nazi, I would hope the league could keep him out based on his political views.

Quote

Can I fire an employee for wearing a MAGA shirt?

Depending on your State, yes.

Quote

I'm pretty sure the laws on such things in the country are clear.

They are. And once the facts of the case are documented, the narratives may change. Like they did for Ferguson and Trayvon Martin for example when the narratives were proven wrong in the facts and evidence.

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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

He specifically restructured his contract so he could opt out. He's fallen off of the face of the earth since then anyways. 

he would have gotten cut anyway right?  am i mistaken on this point?

he made a decision to focus on other items versus football.  good for him.

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45 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

you get all your sociological perspectives from YouTube vids no way I am flummoxed

I wouldn't say I get all of them, some of them I started getting from that awesome sub reddit site that you mentioned, but yeah, the rest are fro youtube.

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32 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

phd-level analyses right here

I have a phd in applied mathematics, not political science..... I need all the help I can get in debating social NFL issues on an NFL message board.

And I know you know what my phd is in, you have referred to it on multiple occasions while trying to get in dbatesmans pants. I hope you scored!

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16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

They should, yes. Being an NFL player is not a human right. If he were, for example, a Nazi, I would hope the league could keep him out based on his political views.

Depending on your State, yes.

They are. And once the facts of the case are documented, the narratives may change. Like they did for Ferguson and Trayvon Martin for example when the narratives were proven wrong in the facts and evidence.

Gotcha, so anyone I disagree with, politically, I can choose not to hire without consequence?  Something seems off about that, and I guess I'm glad that the laws of this country prohibit that.

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25 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Do they have the right to come together and deny a person employment in this country based on political views?

Can I fire an employee for wearing a MAGA shirt?

I'm pretty sure the laws on such things in the country are clear.

In my opinion, if the NFL saw him as a legitimate starting QB, he would have a job right now. The issue is he is not good enough to justify the distractions. I am sure there are some owners who even share his political views, but even Shane who scares Canada's far left, has said he would not want to deal with his distractions if he was an owner. I think its more about his distraction than his political views. I really think if he had been vocal on FB or some other site, and did not start this kneeling issue, he would still have a job. Plenty of athletes have been vocal with their politics off the field. I personally don't see it as his politics keeping him off the field as much as his level of distraction, and possible impact to business.

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11 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Gotcha, so anyone I disagree with, politically, I can choose not to hire without consequence?  Something seems off about that, and I guess I'm glad that the laws of this country prohibit that.

No. You could choose to not hire me without consequences because I am not a protected class. Dilly Dilly.

 

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2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

On that we agree 100%. But its not so bad down here in District 11. We have dentists and everything.

The nice thing about getting out of the northeast is everything isn’t incessantly politicized. And I agree with you regarding the “social justice” term. It’s totally vague and it basically shields you from having to articulate any coherent point or argument. If Kap were kneeling based on Westchester or city schools being the most segregated in the country or something like that, his protest would resonate more, IMO. 

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56 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Do they have the right to come together and deny a person employment in this country based on political views?

Can I fire an employee for wearing a MAGA shirt?

I'm pretty sure the laws on such things in the country are clear.

He was out of contract, he was not fired, they chose to not employee him. May be football is not the industry for him.

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1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

In my opinion, if the NFL saw him as a legitimate starting QB, he would have a job right now. The issue is he is not good enough to justify the distractions. I am sure there are some owners who even share his political views, but even Shane who scares Canada's far left, has said he would not want to deal with his distractions if he was an owner. I think its more about his distraction than his political views. I really think if he had been vocal on FB or some other site, and did not start this kneeling issue, he would still have a job. Plenty of athletes have been vocal with their politics off the field. I personally don't see it as his politics keeping him off the field as much as his level of distraction, and possible impact to business.

It's not that I disagree with the distraction element.  It's that the distraction element gets ignored in a lot of cases, for similar or lesser talents.

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5 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

He was out of contract, he was not fired, they chose to not employee him. May be football is not the industry for him.

He has a demonstrable track record of being better than some of the other employees.  Let's see.  The NFL is taking it pretty seriously.

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14 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The nice thing about getting out of the northeast is everything isn’t incessantly politicized. And I agree with you regarding the “social justice” term. It’s totally vague and it basically shields you from having to articulate any coherent point or argument. If Kap were kneeling based on Westchester or city schools being the most segregated in the country or something like that, his protest would resonate more, IMO. 

South Florida is getting pretty bad, but at least its not knucklehead wannabe Commies throwing rocks bad, or burn your neighborhood down because Boo got shot bad.

 

But its getting silly. We just created a position (mandated by City Hall) in our department called the "Diversity Recruitment Captain". Because although about 55% of our Department is Latin/Hispanic/whatever spanish people are called this week, our Fire Chief is a Woman (Shes cool), 4 out our 6 Battalion Chiefs are "Latin" (3 Cuban, 1 Nicaraguan), and we have guys with backgrounds from every country in North, Central, and South America, a guy from Romania, a guy from Poland, a South African, men and women, black, white, hispanic, and a couple of Pacific Islanders, we still apparently have a "Diversity problem". LOL

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22 minutes ago, gEYno said:

It's not that I disagree with the distraction element.  It's that the distraction element gets ignored in a lot of cases, for similar or lesser talents.

Fair enough, but TO and 85 were out of the league when they were better than many people on rosters, and they were not political as far as I know.

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1 hour ago, gEYno said:

Gotcha, so anyone I disagree with, politically, I can choose not to hire without consequence?  Something seems off about that, and I guess I'm glad that the laws of this country prohibit that.

Except they don't.  Do you really not know that?

Union Members have some protections (due to collective bargaining), and some States provide some protection, but most employees in most states have no protection from termination for political views. 

And again, do you want to run a business in an environment where you, the owner, is required to retain a Nazi shouting about on the streets that Jews should be slaughtered?  I don't, I loathe Nazis.  But maybe you do and think they deserve your payroll $$$'s.

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1 hour ago, gEYno said:

Gotcha, so anyone I disagree with, politically, I can choose not to hire without consequence?  Something seems off about that, and I guess I'm glad that the laws of this country prohibit that.

The rational isn't likely to be a difference of political opinion though,  for better or worse a decent portion of the country and I suspect a disproportionate amount of NFL fans (customers) don't want the guy on their team (certainly a portion of which for racist reasons). But Jerry Jones would probably hire a pedo if he thought it would help him win a SB.

I still know people who won't watch the Jets because they signed Vick the animal abuser. The NFL is a big business and the players are part of the product, all involved would be better off leaving the politics out it.

I haven't stayed on top of the story because I don't care either way, but originally I heard he was looking for a starters job and starters money. With waning skills + a customer turn off it's not really a surprise to me that an owner wouldn't want to cough up a big check.

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44 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And again, do you want to run a business in an environment where you, the owner, is required to retain a Nazi shouting about on the streets that Jews should be slaughtered?

I am an Israeli who moved to the US when I was 12. I don't think in most parts of this country people really care too much if you insult Jews, at least that has been my experience. You should hear the things I have been called in school, work, sports, etc. and nobody ever seems phased by it. Even when I was in HS some of the most vile sh*t was thrown my way, and teachers would hear it and not blink.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Except they don't.  Do you really not know that?

Union Members have some protections (due to collective bargaining), and some States provide some protection, but most employees in most states have no protection from termination for political views. 

And again, do you want to run a business in an environment where you, the owner, is required to retain a Nazi shouting about on the streets that Jews should be slaughtered?  I don't, I loathe Nazis.  But maybe you do and think they deserve your payroll $$$'s.

I think it's a bit troubling that you're taking this to the Nazi extreme.  Kaepernick took a knee, a gesture which killed 6 million less people than the analogy you're putting forth.

I think, simply for being a liberal or a conservative, wrongful termination would come through.  We're not talking about genocide here.

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