Beerfish Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, gEYno said: He has a demonstrable track record of being better than some of the other employees. Let's see. The NFL is taking it pretty seriously. And this is different how from 95% of business out there? Business is littered with worse employees being employed for reasons other than how good they are and is littered with better employees that have pissed someone off not getting jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 58 minutes ago, CTM said: all involved would be better off leaving the politics out it. Agreed. Which was the case, I'm sure, before the anthem was a government-funded, televised event for the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Beerfish said: And this is different how from 95% of business out there? Business is littered with worse employees being employed for reasons other than how good they are and is littered with better employees that have pissed someone off not getting jobs. Lots of things happen all over the world. Things get noticed when they happen on a stage like this. That's what's happening right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, gEYno said: Agreed. Which was the case, I'm sure, before the anthem was a government-funded, televised event for the NFL. Yeah. It would have been way better had those ****tards not flown aircraft into the WTC at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Well, that escalated quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, gEYno said: I think it's a bit troubling that you're taking this to the Nazi extreme. Insert any other objectionable political viewpoint you prefer. KKK members? AntiFa Anarchists? Makes no difference. 20 minutes ago, gEYno said: I think, simply for being a liberal or a conservative, wrongful termination would come through. We're not talking about genocide here. You clearly don't know or understand the laws on this, and that's fine, but there is no point to debating that it is (generally speaking) permitted. Personally, if I were an owner, I wouldn't have signed him. I wouldn't have signed the scumbag Mike Vick either. My rights to choose not to employ them trumps their desire to work for me for millions of dollars. No one is owed a job as an NFL starting QB. End of the day, I almost guarantee he got at least one offer as a backup. If he did, there was no actionable collusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 What if I don't like the way Colin Kaepernick chose to protest but I agree with the underlying issue he's seeks to champion? What if I don't like that he's clearly being blackballed but understand the cost-benefit-analysis that Kaep's talent/ability/production combined with his controversial status makes me feel that if I was an owner; I wouldn't sign him. For example, if he could come to an average; middle-of-the-pack team and by virtue of his abilities take me to the playoffs, I'd be willing to take the hit. But if he's going to produce like Josh McCown is this season; what am I getting out of it? Do I want to take on that risk to be a .500 ball club? And that's where I value his abilities as a quarterback on a decent team; he can win 7-9 games with a solid, if unspectacular, supporting cast and a mediocre coaching staff. And what if I think that we should stop singing the national anthem/putting on large displays of nationalism before sporting events? Perhaps during the Olympics or the World Cup it makes sense; but why when Cincinnati plays New York in a professional sporting event do we have to sing the national anthem before, have the blue angels or whoever fly over and for some reason tie in patriotism with sports? What if I think Kaepernick would be a better man and a better American if he instead chose to protest or call attention through this issue on his own time; still using his celebrity but in a way that actually seemed like it might actually accomplish something other than attention seeking/being controversial for it's own sake? What happened to old-fashioned convincing people of your opinion/beliefs instead of trolling and inflaming those who disagree with you? What if I think people take the national anthem and the flag way too seriously? the values of our country are based off dissension and freedom of expression - and they're more important than a song and a flag. I don't have a good answer/solution to this whole thing; but I can't say I truly identify with either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, Warfish said: Insert any other objectionable political viewpoint you prefer. KKK members? AntiFa Anarchists? Makes no difference. You clearly don't know or understand the laws on this, and that's fine, but there is no point to debating that it is (generally speaking) permitted. Personally, if I were an owner, I wouldn't have signed him. I wouldn't have signed the scumbag Mike Vick either. My rights to choose not to employ them trumps their desire to work for me for millions of dollars. No one is owed a job as an NFL starting QB. End of the day, I almost guarantee he got at least one offer as a backup. If he did, there was no actionable collusion. You still consistently equate taking a knee with violent groups. That's a pretty unfortunate leap. Youre right that I don't have a law degree. So I don't know all the details. I'm sure these types of things happen all the time, but now it's happening on the national stage. So it will be different. As I've stated though, the NFL is taking it seriously, so maybe I don't know quite as little as you incinuate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 With right or wrong put aside, if Kap was given a shot by a team any team and somehow regained his early form and took said team to the promised land all would be forgiven instantly. NY included. He would be fawned over and idolized. Love it or hate it there is no denying that we are inherently self serving creatures. Its a dominant feature of the human condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: What if I don't like the way Colin Kaepernick chose to protest but I agree with the underlying issue he's seeks to champion? What if I don't like that he's clearly being blackballed but understand the cost-benefit-analysis that Kaep's talent/ability/production combined with his controversial status makes me feel that if I was an owner; I wouldn't sign him. For example, if he could come to an average; middle-of-the-pack team and by virtue of his abilities take me to the playoffs, I'd be willing to take the hit. But if he's going to produce like Josh McCown is this season; what am I getting out of it? Do I want to take on that risk to be a .500 ball club? And that's where I value his abilities as a quarterback on a decent team; he can win 7-9 games with a solid, if unspectacular, supporting cast and a mediocre coaching staff. And what if I think that we should stop singing the national anthem/putting on large displays of nationalism before sporting events? Perhaps during the Olympics or the World Cup it makes sense; but why when Cincinnati plays New York in a professional sporting event do we have to sing the national anthem before, have the blue angels or whoever fly over and for some reason tie in patriotism with sports? What if I think Kaepernick would be a better man and a better American if he instead chose to protest or call attention through this issue on his own time; still using his celebrity but in a way that actually seemed like it might actually accomplish something other than attention seeking/being controversial for it's own sake? What happened to old-fashioned convincing people of your opinion/beliefs instead of trolling and inflaming those who disagree with you? What if I think people take the national anthem and the flag way too seriously? the values of our country are based off dissension and freedom of expression - and they're more important than a song and a flag. I don't have a good answer/solution to this whole thing; but I can't say I truly identify with either side. I’m kind of in the opposite boat. The kneeling doesn’t really bother me. The vagueness of the protest does, which just seems like a tactic to divide and not accomplish anything other than draw attention to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Would just like to point out that one shouldn’t get sucked into “well, would you hire a nazi?” as a baseline for arguing that Kaepernick situation. That’s weak sauce, and an intentional way to sabotage the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 35 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Yeah. It would have been way better had those ****tards not flown aircraft into the WTC at all. Wait, are you even allowed to say that? Don’t we have to be sympathetic to terrorists these days?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 minute ago, NoBowles said: Wait, are you even allowed to say that? Don’t we have to be sympathetic to terrorists these days?? Must be some really enlightening YouTube channels, breh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 minute ago, T0mShane said: Must be some really enlightening YouTube channels, breh I’m just trying to learn how to be a good American, like, you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 3 hours ago, gEYno said: Gotcha, so anyone I disagree with, politically, I can choose not to hire without consequence? Something seems off about that, and I guess I'm glad that the laws of this country prohibit that. Not at all. If you are much better than the competition you would still get hired. Like if kap was above average he would have his choice like any other good qb .However he sucks and is no better than the many other guys trying to find jobs. So of course he goes to the bottom of the list since most thinks he is a major A-hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 6 hours ago, BrickTamland said: If Kap really believes in what he is standing for than I respect the fact that he is protesting for what he believes in. That said, he chose this life, he decided to make his protest, and it was obvious that the protest would upset a lot of people being that it (arguably) involved defiance of a patriotic symbol. He chose to put this this spotlight on himself, in public, at his place of work. To rebel at work without expecting consequences would be juvenile. I personally don’t have any ill will towards him, but he chose this life and he has been successful. People took notice and have followed him. Finally, he is not that good. I liked him a lot as a player about 3+ years ago, that ship sailed. that ship sailed because players sailed as did Harbaugh. That does not mean I agree with His actions because I don't but he didnt just play good at one point he played great and went to the SB. He even played at a decent level with sub par players around him. Make no mistake he is being black balled because of his actions and his actions only. He made a bad choice on how to get his message across and now hes paying for it. Sad that a punk like Micheal Vick can be excused for torturing and killing dogs but a gesture at a football game during the National Anthem get you black balled. He should have made a different choice to get attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Okay, let's look at this situation from a realistic viewpoint. Any team that signed him would at the very least alienate and lose half of their fan base. That is a lot of cash. I am happy that no team has signed him because would you want that distraction. He started the protest when he got benched, it was his way of acting out. He has the right to make this protest, and we have the right as fans to call him out for this. Free speech works both ways. If he was to get mugged by two minorities, would he report it to the police? I am glad no one has signed him because he is not a good QB and he is a very bad role model. Be as politically correct as you want, but Kaepernick brought all of this on himself and there is not one ounce of pity that he deserves. A lot of people will not even watch Spongebob Squarepants because of the resemblance that Squidward has with Colin. Colin made his bed, now he must sleep in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Like any job, the boss or owner has a right to select anyone they think would be a good fit for the job. It's not just ability but how an employee fits in the organization. It's nonsense to cry about not being selected about getting or not getting a job. And there's nothing wrong with talking about a potential employee with other bosses, (owners) or staff, (coaches) about that fit in an organization. It's business 101. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, Matt39 said: I’m kind of in the opposite boat. The kneeling doesn’t really bother me. The vagueness of the protest does, which just seems like a tactic to divide and not accomplish anything other than draw attention to yourself. He's protesting against the unjust killings of unarmed black people and the system that allows these police officers to walk. Is that clear enough now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King P Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 This thread is funny yo me because I dressed up as Kaepernick for Halloween (people say I resemble him) Now back to the topic at hand: we've discussed Kaep's views to the point of ad naseum, so I'm not gonna get into that. What I will say is this... The narrative being thrown around that Kaepernick is too much of a distraction holds very little merit. It's been months and we're still talking about it. It's still a distraction, and one that isn't going away anytime soon. What people should be hoping for is for a team to sign him. And if he bombs then he'll be done with and we can finally move on. The longer he stays unsigned, the longer this is gonna drag out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, King P said: This thread is funny yo me because I dressed up as Kaepernick for Halloween (people say I resemble him) Now back to the topic at hand: we've discussed Kaep's views to the point of ad naseum, so I'm not gonna get into that. What I will say is this... The narrative being thrown around that Kaepernick is too much of a distraction holds very little merit. It's been months and we're still talking about it. It's still a distraction, and one that isn't going away anytime soon. What people should be hoping for is for a team to sign him. And if he bombs then he'll be done with and we can finally move on. The longer he stays unsigned, the longer this is gonna drag out Last paragraph is probably correct. Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, August said: He's protesting against the unjust killings of unarmed black people and the system that allows these police officers to walk. Is that clear enough now? So he needs to articulate that, which he hasn’t. When was the last time Kapernick spoke? Going after all cops isnt going to get you anywhere. Which precinct? Which state? The notion that there’s an epidemic of police killing unarmed folks isn’t rooted in fact though, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 I’m offended by the term blackballed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, southparkcpa said: I’m offended by the term blackballed.... How about society is whitewashing him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFaninMI Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Matt39 said: I’m kind of in the opposite boat. The kneeling doesn’t really bother me. The vagueness of the protest does, which just seems like a tactic to divide and not accomplish anything other than draw attention to yourself. Well I don't know if you're the opposite; because the thing that bothers me most - which I thought I wrote in my original post - is that Kaep's form of protest doesn't convince or engender empathy from anyone. It's trolling/flame-baiting. An unarmed black man is five times as likely to be shot by police than an unarmed white man - an important statistic and needs to be known by Americans. Do you think most of us watching get those facts by watching Colin kneel? It just sucks that he's right on the issue but so easily vilified because of the way he chose to voice it. You're not convincing anyone, Kaep, that didn't already agree with you. That's what drives me crazy and I see it in our country all the time - play to the base, the "other side" is evil and f*** the middle. Protesting is powerful when it convinces the wider audience and pointless when it's trolling. I think he made a huge miscalculation and gave comfort to racists and race baiters who can now say "See, I told you they don't belong here in 'Merica". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBowles Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: Well I don't know if you're the opposite; because the thing that bothers me most - which I thought I wrote in my original post - is that Kaep's form of protest doesn't convince or engender empathy from anyone. It's trolling/flame-baiting. An unarmed black man is five times as likely to be shot by police than an unarmed white man - an important statistic and needs to be known by Americans. Do you think most of us watching get those facts by watching Colin kneel? It just sucks that he's right on the issue but so easily vilified because of the way he chose to voice it. You're not convincing anyone, Kaep, that didn't already agree with you. That's what drives me crazy and I see it in our country all the time - play to the base, the "other side" is evil and f*** the middle. Protesting is powerful when it convinces the wider audience and pointless when it's trolling. I think he made a huge miscalculation and gave comfort to racists and race baiters who can now say "See, I told you they don't belong here in 'Merica". https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.amp.html your wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 45 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: Do you think most of us watching get those facts by watching Colin kneel? def not. I get my facts from YouTube videos and chemtrail discussions on reddit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 28 minutes ago, NoBowles said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.amp.html your wrong Interesting; I got my info here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.599a5c7ca629 Quote According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers. U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer. Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population. And, when considering shootings confined within a single race, a black person shot and killed by police is more likely to have been unarmed than a white person. About 13 percent of all black people who have been fatally shot by police since January 2015 were unarmed, compared with 7 percent of all white people. This is from your article; Quote Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon. Both results undercut the idea of racial bias in police use of lethal force. Seems as if the NYT and the WaPo disagree. Looks like the one you posted is more scientific but also has smaller parameters - "He and student researchers spent about 3,000 hours assembling detailed data from police reports in Houston; Austin, Tex.; Dallas; Los Angeles; Orlando, Fla.; Jacksonville, Fla.; and four other counties in Florida." I'll have to read more about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: def not. I get my facts from YouTube videos and chemtrail discussions on reddit. Hey that’s where I get my neutriceuticals from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said: An unarmed black man is five times as likely to be shot by police than an unarmed white man - an important statistic and needs to be known by Americans. yet a police officer is 18x more likely to be shot by a black man than he is to shoot an unarmed black man. statistics are a powerful thing. 'merica' in general finds it hard to take coddled multi-millionares seriously when they claim oppression. in a 24 x 7 x 365 media world you inherently have a platform for protest or to have your voice heard. there are over 10,000 minutes in a week, the NFL asks you to be stand and salute the people who sacrificed everything so you could live your life of luxury. all things considered not much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 11 hours ago, RevisIsland610 said: He just isn't worth the clown show and backlash from some fans that it would cause. I could see if he was actually a good player but he was pretty terrible his last few years. Employers who pay the salaries of these players do have the right to hire and not hire anyone that they choose. 16-4 TD to INT ratio last year on a team that won 2 games. They have none this year so it's not like the team's lack of success was due to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 24 minutes ago, LionelRichie said: yet a police officer is 18x more likely to be shot by a black man than he is to shoot an unarmed black man. Listen here Lionel Richie, sometimes people are just running with the night, playing in the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 In before the lock. It won't be long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 4 hours ago, LionelRichie said: yet a police officer is 18x more likely to be shot by a black man than he is to shoot an unarmed black man. statistics are a powerful thing. 'merica' in general finds it hard to take coddled multi-millionares seriously when they claim oppression. in a 24 x 7 x 365 media world you inherently have a platform for protest or to have your voice heard. there are over 10,000 minutes in a week, the NFL asks you to be stand and salute the people who sacrificed everything so you could live your life of luxury. all things considered not much to ask. Quote yet a police officer is 18x more likely to be shot by a black man than he is to shoot an unarmed black man. statistics are a powerful thing. I don't really know what that's supposed to tell us? How does that compare with whites under the same parameters? Sounds like you've proved that statistics can be powerfully manipulated to say what you want - the statistics I provided at least had context and were quite clear; unarmed blacks are five times as likely to be shot by police than unarmed whites. That's fairly clear and directly accounts for why blacks might want to address the issue. As to your second point; you put me in the odd position of having to reiterate the point I made in previous posts - which is that I don't really like the way Kaep protested even if I understand that the underlying issue he's looking to bring into the political discourse is real; i.e. racism is a reality and the black community/black issues are either largely ignored or downplayed by many Americans. I don't think he's going to convince anyone of anything by doing what he did; which is what bothers me about his choice of protest. But it also bothers me that I see a lot of people, like yourself, that would rather provide a convoluted statistic without context in order to continue to ignore a systemic issue in our country. Why can't we say "hey Kaep, I hear you, but that's not the way to make your point - you're just going to piss people off"? Instead it's a lot like Climate Change; rather than discussing solutions we've got to continually argue over whether it's happening or not. And again; I don't know why we have to sing the national anthem and wave the flag before a football game anyway. The two have nothing to do with each other and it seems odd that we do it in the first place. How about we keep sports and nationalism separate save for the Olympics and the World Cup? It seems like a cynical move by the NFL to pump so much patriotism into their game; and now it's blown up in their face - the NFL kinda got what it deserved in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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