Question For The Tank Crowd

[Jetworks]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

 The only team in my lifetime(will be 60 in a month) that ever was rewarded for obvious tanking was the Pittsburgh Penguins in the early 1980's who tanked for Mario LeMieux, and were handsomely rewarded.

San Antonio Spurs say hi

[adb280z]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

The last team to totally tank, the Colts, have won crap since they got Luck, and are in far worse shape right now than the Jets could ever be. Also, the two best QB's on the planet, Rodgers and Brady, were a late 1st and 6th round pick. The only team in my lifetime(will be 60 in a month) that ever was rewarded for obvious tanking was the Pittsburgh Penguins in the early 1980's who tanked for Mario LeMieux, and were handsomely rewarded.

The Astros tanked and just won the World Series.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, adb280z said:

The Astros tanked and just won the World Series.

Good call!

[BrickTamland]

I am (was?) a tank person (play Petty person).

After the falcons game I thought the jets would be lucky to pull out one more win. I thought Bowles would lose the team. And we would be headed to a top 4 or 5 pick.

I was way off. They came out with excitement and executed really well. It threw me off big time.

I still think that playing Petty was the right move from the start, but that’s all mucked up now. But the team is trying, and I appreciate that. I think that it’s time to move on from Rosen/Darnold discussion for better or worse. With all this in mind I started a mock offseason in draft forum.

[kevinc855]

Plan was never the draft. Plan has always been cousins. If they don’t get him there are 5 legitimate qbs out there and some top picks like the 49ers and bears won’t be taking qbs. If we want a qb in the draft we can have one. Everyone needs to take a breath with the asinine mindset of losing to gain something which is just a false narrative by your drive by fans who don’t understand football. Jet up!

[RedBeardedSavage]

3 hours ago, Pcola said:

While I was clearly in the tank crowd, there was never a moment that I openly rooted for the team to lose.  Being in the tank mode, was a benefit of sitting through a potential disaster of a season plus lowering the risk of going through it very often going forward.

I went against my instinct and got the ticket and have watched each game.  The team has been surprising and fun to watch, there are caveats.  

We are are young and improving on defense.  Adams, Maye, Lee have played better than I thought they would.  

We are old and limited on offense.  McCown is playing way better than any of us could have predicted.  But can he win against a legit team?  

The position that the team is in right now could go either way.  If we don’t get Cousins, they will have to bring McCown back.  If they are aggressive and go after a QB in the draft, they can sit for most of next season.  And won’t need 9 rookies on the team next year so we could go all in on a move up.

If they are not aggressive and think we can just roll with McCown, there will be ANOTHER rebuild going on in 2019.

Also got the Sunday Ticket this year against my better instincts.  Also was expecting to tank but have been pleasantly surprised by the team, McCown especially.  

I hope we draft quarterback next year in the first two rounds and sit him; let McCown play for another year while the rookie learns.  But we could use some more playmakers on offense, another corner, a lot of help along the offensive line (although I admit I thought there were going to be worse) and for the love of god can we get someone who can pass rush off the edge? 

And I like the new offensive coordinator.  But Bowles... I still think I'd rather have a new coach, even if he's done better than expected.  

[Apache 51]

2 hours ago, BrickTamland said:

I am (was?) a tank person (play Petty person).

After the falcons game I thought the jets would be lucky to pull out one more win. I thought Bowles would lose the team. And we would be headed to a top 4 or 5 pick.

I was way off. They came out with excitement and executed really well. It threw me off big time.

I still think that playing Petty was the right move from the start, but that’s all mucked up now. But the team is trying, and I appreciate that. I think that it’s time to move on from Rosen/Darnold discussion for better or worse. With all this in mind I started a mock offseason in draft forum.

With you on Petty, however, aside from him being injury prone and not playing well they must know something we don't.

[Gastineau Lives]

4 hours ago, section314 said:

Plenty of room for all you tanker a**holes over on the Giant fans sites.

Lol go **** yourself. You leave.

[The Crusher]

5 hours ago, section314 said:

Plenty of room for all you tanker a**holes over on the Giant fans sites.

Really ? So why so aggressive ?

[Kleckineau]

5 hours ago, RevisIsland610 said:

I read that both Darnold and Rosen may stay in school. Now what. It would be real Jetsy if they went 0-16, 1-15 and that happened. I like this team and I am glad they are not tanking. You don't have to tank to get a quality QB. 

Both? Anything is possible (like if they both had poor seasons and fell in the draft analysts opinions) but that didnt happen so barring bad advice to pass up millions how probable is it?

 

[RevisIsland610]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Both? Anything is possible (like if they both had poor seasons and fell in the draft analysts opinions) but that didnt happen so barring bad advice to pass up millions how probable is it?

 

Yes, both. I forgot where I read it. It is unlikely but still possible I guess. 

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It does seem like there's merit to this argument.  The Texans got the most exciting QB mid-1st round.  Mahomes (though we don't know what he is yet) was also picked around then too.  Last year was supposed to be a terrible QB class but it might turn out to be pretty good after all.  So it's certainly no exact science.  That's for sure. 

Heck, though, the most surprising thing is how well McCown has played. The guy was 2-20 in his last 22 games.  He has 4 wins this year and it could've easily been 6.

McCown has not played well. Morton has done a good job of managing him. He is completely unable to win a game. His best performance does not lose it.

[Jetsbb]

Even worse than not getting that franchise QB this season will result in a undeserved extension for Bowles. Team will always be at a severe disadvantage with how he coaches toward the end of the game. This season is very bad for their future.

[Jetsplayer21]

9 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I was absolutely in the tank crowd from day 1 but I have to admit this team has won me over.  We're not getting a top 2 pick with 4 wins and we could've easily had 5 or 6 wins.  I'm back to rooting for us to win.  Anyone else here who has changed from pro-tank to pro-winning?

That said, I fully realize McCown is not the answer and I don't know what we're going to do this offseason now.  But this team is fun to watch and does show promise.

It’s fun to be “in the hunt.” You are right at this point we are out of the top 5 probably. I’m in different, we aren’t making the playoffs if I had to bet $. And I like long shots. 6-10 just like always is the safe bet ha.  

[HawkeyeJet]

Here is my question for any crowd.  What would have been more painful, going through this year and missing on a real QB prospect, or successfully tank, only for the QB prospects to essentially tank themselves?  

I think actually tanking only for it to turn out the QB class was incredibly overrated would have been worse.

[Jetsplayer21]

In my opinion. The more games we win the more draft picks we will have to trade to trade up. Big different from going from 6 to 3 than say 12 to 3. So I’m all for winning if we make the playoffs but winning just to miss them and then have to pay up lot more to trade up for qb is.. This is a interesting article though. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thejetpress.com/2017/11/04/new-york-jets-jimmy-garoppolo-trade-dividends/amp/

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Here is my question for any crowd.  What would have been more painful, going through this year and missing on a real QB prospect, or successfully tank, only for the QB prospects to essentially tank themselves?  

I think actually tanking only for it to turn out the QB class was incredibly overrated would have been worse.

I just watched Darnold throw a terrible INT.  And the D dropped another INT earlier. 

[Pac]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

McCown has not played well. Morton has done a good job of managing him. He is completely unable to win a game. His best performance does not lose it.

Kudos for sticking to your guns but it's over and you've lost.  Pretty much nothing you've said the last 2 months is correct.  Better to lay low and at least wait for a bad game before you pounce.  You might be waiting a while.

[TuscanyTile2]

32 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I just watched Darnold throw a terrible INT.  And the D dropped another INT earlier. 

Great throw there, however.

[jetspenguin]

12 hours ago, Philc1 said:

There is no point in us trying to play hard for 7-9 

but thats exactly what you're gonna get

[rex-n-effect]

I never believed the front office or the coaching staff committed to a tank. I know a lot of people wanted it. I dunno, I don't want to root for loses. I'd rather just shelve the year and do something else with my Sundays. If the team loses a lot then they get a good draft position and I'd want to make the most of it. I like that we're seeing a lot of young players and even some vets with some gas in the tank coming together and playing well above expectations. Those are guys we can build with in the future. It gives us options at QB to be an attractive destination for a FA QB or to trade down in a draft.

It's a terrible move to look at the team and tell them to underperform or that you intend to coach to a loss. It sends the message this is a place without pride and if you lose it's okay to come back around and ask for a big contract because hey, winning is not always the goal. It's hard to build a great team around that (e.g. Colts, Browns). We don't just need a franchise QB; we need a good team on all fronts.

[jetspenguin]

12 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The good news, Tuscan, is that the Jets are simultaneously winning and tanking, it’s just that they’re tanking 2018 and 2019 instead.

lol why stop there? Why not round it out to the 2010 season?

[PS17]

.

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, Pac said:

Kudos for sticking to your guns but it's over and you've lost.  Pretty much nothing you've said the last 2 months is correct.  Better to lay low and at least wait for a bad game before you pounce.  You might be waiting a while.

Youre entitled to your opinion but one game against a flat Buffalo team does not all of a sudden make McClown a decent QB, Bowles a good head coach, or playing McClown in the first place any better of an idea. McClown blew leads in 3 consecutive games because he sucks and chokes when pressure is on. He was not required to do anything Thursday. Our victory was pure fool's gold but the sheep fans all of a sudden think we are a miracle waiting to happen. There are some positive developments this year for sure, Bowles and McClown are not among them.

[jamesr]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Youre entitled to your opinion but one game against a flat Buffalo team does not all of a sudden make McClown a decent QB, Bowles a good head coach, or playing McClown in the first place any better of an idea. McClown blew leads in 3 consecutive games because he sucks and chokes when pressure is on. He was not required to do anything Thursday. Our victory was pure fool's gold but the sheep fans all of a sudden think we are a miracle waiting to happen. There are some positive developments this year for sure, Bowles and McClown are not among them.

So we only ever win because the other team sucked, but when we lose it's because we sucked. Right. 

[Kleckineau]

7 useless wins coming followed by Rosen hitting this league like a fvcking MOAB finally giving Jets fans something more horrible to ruminate over than missing on Marino.

[Warfish]

Is there still a "tank crowd" now?  Does tanking after the team has 4 wins do anything?

Folks may as well resign themselves that we're picking upper-middle, anywhere from 5-15.

 

[Joe Jets fan]

I bet Philly is thrilled they tanked so they could get the best young QB in the game...

[Kleckineau]

37 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I bet Philly is thrilled they tanked so they could get the best young QB in the game...

Well trading up giving up 4-5 picks incl 1st rounders works also.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

7 useless wins coming followed by Rosen hitting this league like a fvcking MOAB finally giving Jets fans something more horrible to ruminate over than missing on Marino.

That 3 year extension for McCown will make you forget about us missing out on all the good qbs in the draft

[joewilly12]

There will be plenty of good QB's available in the draft this class is loaded time for coaching and scouts to earn their money and bring home a prize regardless of where we pick in the draft. 

[shuler82]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Is there still a "tank crowd" now?  Does tanking after the team has 4 wins do anything?

Folks may as well resign themselves that we're picking upper-middle, anywhere from 5-15.

 

+1

And I don't think many people who wanted the team to quote unquote tank actually wanted them to come out and get destroyed week and week out (or were naive to think that the team would attempt to not win on purpose).

Part of me is somewhat optimistic on what we're seeing this year. Lee and Jenkins appear to be coming on. For all the complaints that the safeties aren't day one all-pros, they're both going to be solid starters for years to come. I like Morton and the offense he's running. If McCown can succeed, a lot of QBs probably can. Robbie Anderson is legit. Kearse was a nice pick up. If Mac can get off his fat ass and sign Claiborne, Seferian-Jenkins, Davis and Ealy to multi year deals before they leave via free agency, I'd feel even more comfortable about what we're building on from this season.

At this point, this team is winning 6-7 games. We'll end up drafting 10-15. Last year that's where Mahomes and Watson were both drafted, so maybe in a QB class considered this deep, we'll have a guy or two on the board for us there. Or, with the 80-90M in cap room, we'll enter the draft with a QB in place and 3 draft picks in the first two rounds.

 

 

[nicg4360]

+1
And I don't think many people who wanted the team to quote unquote tank actually wanted them to come out and get destroyed week and week out (or were naive to think that the team would attempt to not win on purpose).
Part of me is somewhat optimistic on what we're seeing this year. Lee and Jenkins appear to be coming on. For all the complaints that the safeties aren't day one all-pros, they're both going to be solid starters for years to come. I like Morton and the offense he's running. If McCown can succeed, a lot of QBs probably can. Robbie Anderson is legit. Kearse was a nice pick up. If Mac can get off his fat ass and sign Claiborne, Seferian-Jenkins, Davis and Ealy to multi year deals before they leave via free agency, I'd feel even more comfortable about what we're building on from this season.
At this point, this team is winning 6-7 games. We'll end up drafting 10-15. Last year that's where Mahomes and Watson were both drafted, so maybe in a QB class considered this deep, we'll have a guy or two on the board for us there. Or, with the 80-90M in cap room, we'll enter the draft with a QB in place and 3 draft picks in the first two rounds.
 
 

Completely agree....I think people need to realize the ill affects tanking can have on a team...yes it's awesome you get a top pick and HOPEFULLY hit on a FQB...or you can be the Cleveland Browns who are the masters of tanking and have developed a losing culture and a very demoralizing place to play. Yea you can get that great qb but if the team around you has been accustomed to losing and accepts it what does that do for that said new QB. Just think a young team playing like the 2016 Jets. That is what they call the Cleveland Browns....full of top 3 picks.

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[Jetsplayer21]

 

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Well trading up giving up 4-5 picks incl 1st rounders works also.

Yes, and we each win is another high draft pick we will have to pony up when we trade into the top 3 ha 

[jamesr]

56 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

+1

And I don't think many people who wanted the team to quote unquote tank actually wanted them to come out and get destroyed week and week out (or were naive to think that the team would attempt to not win on purpose).

Part of me is somewhat optimistic on what we're seeing this year. Lee and Jenkins appear to be coming on. For all the complaints that the safeties aren't day one all-pros, they're both going to be solid starters for years to come. I like Morton and the offense he's running. If McCown can succeed, a lot of QBs probably can. Robbie Anderson is legit. Kearse was a nice pick up. If Mac can get off his fat ass and sign Claiborne, Seferian-Jenkins, Davis and Ealy to multi year deals before they leave via free agency, I'd feel even more comfortable about what we're building on from this season.

At this point, this team is winning 6-7 games. We'll end up drafting 10-15. Last year that's where Mahomes and Watson were both drafted, so maybe in a QB class considered this deep, we'll have a guy or two on the board for us there. Or, with the 80-90M in cap room, we'll enter the draft with a QB in place and 3 draft picks in the first two rounds.

 

 

Excellent point about there being good QBs in the 10-15 range ... that's also where Big Ben was drafted. No reason to write off a QB just because he's not in the top 3-5 picks.