The Two Bills (30 for 30 this winter)

[Adoni Beast]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=21317959

Now this should be interesting.

[nyjunc]

This does sound good, I hate the Giants more than any team but those teams w/ those guys were truly GREAT teams.  The 1986 Giants are one of the most underrated teams of all time and the job Parcells did in 1990 one of the greatest coaching jobs of all time but my guess is this will try to give Belichick most of the credit for having the good fortune of the greatest defensive player in league history at his disposal. 

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

This does sound good, I hate the Giants more than any team but those teams w/ those guys were truly GREAT teams.  The 1986 Giants are one of the most underrated teams of all time and the job Parcells did in 1990 one of the greatest coaching jobs of all time but my guess is this will try to give Belichick most of the credit for having the good fortune of the greatest defensive player in league history at his disposal. 

Fully agree with the bolded part.  I can't wait to see this documentary.  Bill Parcells WAS football in the NY area during the 1980's.  And in many ways, he STILL is.  How often do we see writers reference the guy (e.g. "you are what your record says you are")?  The job BP/BB did in 1990 beating SF on the road and then Buffalo in the Super Bowl was the best coaching job I've ever seen to this day.   And, other than that crazy San Diego/Miami playoff game in like 1981, the 2nd greatest game I've ever seen was that 1990 NFC championship game between the Giants and 49ers (the 15-13 game).  And I'm not a fan of either of those teams.

As for Belichick, I think he's the greatest non-player of the salary cap era.  He's done a masterful job in New England and he's managed to reinvent that roster several times (obviously with Brady being the constant).  His work as a GM is as brilliant as his coaching.  I still say the very lowest moment in Jets' history was losing BB.

[rangerous]

41 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

This does sound good, I hate the Giants more than any team but those teams w/ those guys were truly GREAT teams.  The 1986 Giants are one of the most underrated teams of all time and the job Parcells did in 1990 one of the greatest coaching jobs of all time but my guess is this will try to give Belichick most of the credit for having the good fortune of the greatest defensive player in league history at his disposal. 

hmmm.....must be nice to be a coach on a team with the goat on defense and then be the coach of a team with the goat qb, plus cheating.

[Kleckineau]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

hmmm.....must be nice to be a coach on a team with the goat on defense and then be the coach of a team with the goat qb, plus cheating.

Sure of course but to be fair are there any HOF caliber HC's that didnt have top assistants or great players? 

[rangerous]

3 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Sure of course but to be fair are there any HOF caliber HC's that didnt have top assistants or great players? 

it's an argument unto itself.  you get guys like noll who had a whole passle full of hof guys on his teams or guys like landry and even jimmie johnson.  of course the successful coaches have good players but at the same time teams make their stars as opposed to stardom coming because a guy is on a team.  guys like taylor are once in a lifetime and they'd be great on any team.  brady?  it's so hard to say.  it would certainly say something if he went to a different team and performed equally as well.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

This does sound good, I hate the Giants more than any team but those teams w/ those guys were truly GREAT teams.  The 1986 Giants are one of the most underrated teams of all time and the job Parcells did in 1990 one of the greatest coaching jobs of all time but my guess is this will try to give Belichick most of the credit for having the good fortune of the greatest defensive player in league history at his disposal. 

LOL. This is easily debunked. Parcells won nothing after he and BB split. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Also didn't Parcells have LT too? Shouldn't the same thing apply to the Great Parcells as well? I know you and I have had this argument in the past and you are too stubborn or opinionated to listen to facts and will now state your opinions as facts. All the facts point to BB being the reason why Parcells has those 2 rings and BB's game plan against the Bills in that Super Bowl is in the HOF. I am no fan of either coach but credit must be given where it is due. BB beats Parcells in every category. Career record, # of Championships etc. Now tell me BB had the GOAT at QB blah blah blah. The #'s don't lie my stubborn friend. History will bear that out.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Sure of course but to be fair are there any HOF caliber HC's that didnt have top assistants or great players? 

Joe Gibb...the true best Head Coach in the history of the NFL based on 3 Super Bowl wins with 3 DIFFERENT QBs! Take Brady away from Belichick. And don't give me that 2008 bulls*t with Cassell. They played the weakest schedule in the league that year & the Jets with Brett Favre went into Gillette on a Sunday night and beat them. 

Anyone that believes the Pats & BB would be above .500 this year without Tom Brady bringing them back against Houston, Jets, they would have lost to the Bucs if Nick Folk didn't suck azz. That's 3-5. The only reason Gibbs wasn't successful elsewhere was he was torn between NASCAR & the NFL. He should have never returned. 

Joe Gibbs did something else that puts him high on the NFL coaching plateau. He took a team full of scabs in 1982 & beat the Dallas Cowboys regular team with them in the 3rd game of the year. Think about that one for a moment! Oh, & he won the Super Bowl that year beating the Dolphins which should have been our own NY Jets without Shula pulling the worst field stunt in the history of the NFL creating the MUDD BOWL.

[section314]

10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Joe Gibb...the true best Head Coach in the history of the NFL based on 3 Super Bowl wins with 3 DIFFERENT QBs! Take Brady away from Belichick. And don't give me that 2008 bulls*t with Cassell. They played the weakest schedule in the league that year & the Jets with Brett Favre went into Gillette on a Sunday night and beat them. 

Anyone that believes the Pats & BB would be above .500 this year without Tom Brady bringing them back against Houston, Jets, they would have lost to the Bucs if Nick Folk didn't suck azz. That's 3-5. The only reason Gibbs wasn't successful elsewhere was he was torn between the NASCAR & the NFL. He should have never returned. 

Joe Gibbs did something else that puts him high on the NFL coaching plateau. He took a team full of scabs in 1982 & beat the Dallas Cowboys regular team with them in the 3rd game of the year. Think about that one for a moment! Oh, & he won the Super Bowl that year beating the Dolphins which should have been our own NY Jets without Shula pulling the worst field stunt in the history of the NFL creating the MUDD BOWL.

Gibbs was a great coach, and may be the most underrated coach in NFL history considering how much he did win. Think about that NFC east for all those years ......Parcells, Gibbs, Vermeil and Landry. 6 games a year against those guys....wow! 

[Jetster]

15 minutes ago, section314 said:

Gibbs was a great coach, and may be the most underrated coach in NFL history considering how much he did win. Think about that NFC east for all those years ......Parcells, Gibbs, Vermeil and Landry. 6 games a year against those guys....wow! 

Great point & something else I didn't consider. Wow! Has there ever been 4 better coaches in the same division? Great teams too! My goodness, it cements my belief in Gibbs as the best even more. Think about that Parcells got the Patriots to a Super Bowl, the Jets to an AFC championship, Vermiel won a Super Bowl with the Rams, Landry had some of the best talent ever assembled by front office scouts so good that Gil Brandt who is so admired by Belichick, Bill believes he should be in the Hall of Fame.

[Kleckineau]

42 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Joe Gibb...the true best Head Coach in the history of the NFL based on 3 Super Bowl wins with 3 DIFFERENT QBs! Take Brady away from Belichick. And don't give me that 2008 bulls*t with Cassell. They played the weakest schedule in the league that year & the Jets with Brett Favre went into Gillette on a Sunday night and beat them. 

Anyone that believes the Pats & BB would be above .500 this year without Tom Brady bringing them back against Houston, Jets, they would have lost to the Bucs if Nick Folk didn't suck azz. That's 3-5. The only reason Gibbs wasn't successful elsewhere was he was torn between NASCAR & the NFL. He should have never returned. 

Joe Gibbs did something else that puts him high on the NFL coaching plateau. He took a team full of scabs in 1982 & beat the Dallas Cowboys regular team with them in the 3rd game of the year. Think about that one for a moment! Oh, & he won the Super Bowl that year beating the Dolphins which should have been our own NY Jets without Shula pulling the worst field stunt in the history of the NFL creating the MUDD BOWL.

Love Gibbs also but are you implying he won without great coordinators or players?

My only point is there are no great coaches without top assistants and great players.

[Jetster]

7 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Love Gibbs also but are you implying he won without great coordinators or players?

My only point is there are no great coaches without top assistants and great players.

Gibbs was cool as a cucumber too. When he got animated EVERYONE took notice. So prepared he didn't have to adjust, teams adjusted to them. He rolled people over with the hogs, then went pass crazy with Doug Williams, than just physically DOMINATED Shulas team with the diesel. He always reminded me of Social Studies teacher on the sideline with his big eyeglasses, but if you think back he was ALWAYS coaching during the games, had his fingers in every aspect of the team including special teams. He was truly a great coach.

[Lith]

I was barely able to sit through a 60 second promo for this show -- don't think there is any way I could handle about 90 minutes on Bill & Bill. 

[TuscanyTile2]

35 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Great point & something else I didn't consider. Wow! Has there ever been 4 better coaches in the same division? Great teams too! My goodness, it cements my belief in Gibbs as the best even more. Think about that Parcells got the Patriots to a Super Bowl, the Jets to an AFC championship, Vermiel won a Super Bowl with the Rams, Landry had some of the best talent ever assembled by front office scouts so good that Gil Brandt who is so admired by Belichick, Bill believes he should be in the Hall of Fame.

This is a great question.  I've never thought about that but I'm sure that foursome (Parcells, Gibbs, Landry, Vermeil) is up near the top (if not the very top). 

[Jetster]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is a great question.  I've never thought about that but I'm sure that foursome (Parcells, Gibbs, Landry, Vermeil) is up near the top (if not the very top). 

You know if you've ever read the book outliers, you find out how they cull young hockey players in Canada, and what you find is they move the best & youngest into more difficult competition and older more experienced players to get the best out of them. 

Im sure that was similar to the coaching in the NFC East. I believe that they all made each other better, there was nowhere to hide. You better bring your best & you better be prepared or you would get embarrassed. Pretty cool idea for a 30/30, the hay days of the NFC East with those coaches? I guarantee you there would be some great stories. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

You know if you've ever read the book outliers, you find out how they cull young hockey players in Canada, and what you find is they move the best & youngest into more difficult competition and older more experienced players to get the best out of them. 

Im sure that was similar to the coaching in the NFC East. I believe that they all made each other better, there was nowhere to hide. You better bring your best & you better be prepared or you would get embarrassed. Pretty cool idea for a 30/30, the hay days of the NFC East with those coaches? I guarantee you there would be some great stories. 

I read a little of that book.  It was interesting.  As for younger hockey players playing against more experienced players, let's hope that's a good sign from both of the NY Rangers 2 1st round draft picks this past year.   Chytil even made the team out of training camp (though only lasted 2 games).

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Fully agree with the bolded part.  I can't wait to see this documentary.  Bill Parcells WAS football in the NY area during the 1980's.  And in many ways, he STILL is.  How often do we see writers reference the guy (e.g. "you are what your record says you are")?  The job BP/BB did in 1990 beating SF on the road and then Buffalo in the Super Bowl was the best coaching job I've ever seen to this day.   And, other than that crazy San Diego/Miami playoff game in like 1981, the 2nd greatest game I've ever seen was that 1990 NFC championship game between the Giants and 49ers (the 15-13 game).  And I'm not a fan of either of those teams.

As for Belichick, I think he's the greatest non-player of the salary cap era.  He's done a masterful job in New England and he's managed to reinvent that roster several times (obviously with Brady being the constant).  His work as a GM is as brilliant as his coaching.  I still say the very lowest moment in Jets' history was losing BB.

BB w/o Brady has been a failure of a HC.  BB w/o LT has been an average defensive coach.

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

hmmm.....must be nice to be a coach on a team with the goat on defense and then be the coach of a team with the goat qb, plus cheating.

every team tries to bend the rules but BB was nothing as a Dc w/o LT and nothing as a HC w/o Brady.

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

LOL. This is easily debunked. Parcells won nothing after he and BB split. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Also didn't Parcells have LT too? Shouldn't the same thing apply to the Great Parcells as well? I know you and I have had this argument in the past and you are too stubborn or opinionated to listen to facts and will now state your opinions as facts. All the facts point to BB being the reason why Parcells has those 2 rings and BB's game plan against the Bills in that Super Bowl is in the HOF. I am no fan of either coach but credit must be given where it is due. BB beats Parcells in every category. Career record, # of Championships etc. Now tell me BB had the GOAT at QB blah blah blah. The #'s don't lie my stubborn friend. History will bear that out.

Nothing other than turn the worst franchise in the sport into a SB contender in NE and turning a mediocre Dallas franchise into SB contenders in Dallas.  Other than that he did nothing.

BB was nothing as defensive coach w/o the greatest defensive player of all time.

What a game plan, let's allow Buffalo to score a point a minute, it had nothing to do w/ the Giants offense holding the ball for 40 minutes.  It was all the genius Bill belichick b just like Bill not taking a TO against Seattle meant he knew they'd throw an INT.  what a genius!

Parcells made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Phil Simms(won SB)

Jeff Hostetler(won SB)

Drew Bledsoe(made SB)

Vinny Testaverde(made title game)

Quincy Carter

Tony Romo

Bill Belichick made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Vinny Testaverde(div rd)

Tom Brady(5 SB titles)

 

w/ Parcells Bledsoe made a SB, w/ Belichick Bledsoe was 5-13.  Parcells in 4 places doesn't have a losing record anywhere despite taking over awful franchises(at the time). Belichick in Cleveland was almost 10 games below .500 and BB in NE without Brady is under .500.

 

 

I know it's hard for fans to see past the SBs w/ Brady but Brady transformed the Patriots and BB's HC career.  I do believe BB has developed into a great HC but he's never won a thing w/o Brady and would be a DC somewhere today if it were not for Tom Brady. Parcells could win w/ anyone.

He took over NYG in 1983, previous 4 years the Giants were 23-34.  NYG had made playoffs ONE time from 1964-1982. By year 2 they were back in the playoffs.

He took over NE 1993, previous 4 years they were 14-50 and had the Lisa Olsen sexual harassment scandal in the LR. By year 2 he had NE at 10-6 and in the playoffs.

he took over NYJ in 1997, previous 4 years we were 18-46 including going 1-15 the yr before. Year 1 we had a winning record, year 2 we set franchise record for wins and were less than 30 minutes from the SB where we handed the great Bill belichick and his D a double digit lead.

he took over Dal in 2003, previous 4 years they were 23-41 including 3 straight 5-11 seasons.  year 1 w/ QUINCY CARTER they were 10-6 and in the playoffs.

 

Parcells is a guy who didn't like to prosperity, he liked to rebuild so he didn't stay long in any particular place or he'd have more SB titles, he was a much better HC than Bill Belichick.  hew could win w/ anyone not just the greatest QB of all time. Parcells once went 6-3 w/ Ray Lucas at QB while BB was 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe who BP had taken to a SB.

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, section314 said:

Gibbs was a great coach, and may be the most underrated coach in NFL history considering how much he did win. Think about that NFC east for all those years ......Parcells, Gibbs, Vermeil and Landry. 6 games a year against those guys....wow! 

You bare correct, Gibbs is incredibly underrated.  The man won 3 SBs w/ 3 different QBs, when you see BB being talked about as the greatest and he could only win w/ the greatest QB of all time then see Gibbs win w/ Joe Theismann who was a decent QB most of his career(though he did win an MVP the yr after they won first SB), Doug Williams who was solid starter in TB but past his prime in DC and Mark Rypien who was great the SB year but didn't do much else in his career.

[MDL_JET]

Not really related to the topic but sorta...last nights 30 for 30 with Ric Flair was amazing. Highly recommend. 

[Adoni Beast]

30 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

BB w/o Brady has been a failure of a HC.  BB w/o LT has been an average defensive coach.

every team tries to bend the rules but BB was nothing as a Dc w/o LT and nothing as a HC w/o Brady.

Nothing other than turn the worst franchise in the sport into a SB contender in NE and turning a mediocre Dallas franchise into SB contenders in Dallas.  Other than that he did nothing.

BB was nothing as defensive coach w/o the greatest defensive player of all time.

What a game plan, let's allow Buffalo to score a point a minute, it had nothing to do w/ the Giants offense holding the ball for 40 minutes.  It was all the genius Bill belichick b just like Bill not taking a TO against Seattle meant he knew they'd throw an INT.  what a genius!

Parcells made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Phil Simms(won SB)

Jeff Hostetler(won SB)

Drew Bledsoe(made SB)

Vinny Testaverde(made title game)

Quincy Carter

Tony Romo

Bill Belichick made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Vinny Testaverde(div rd)

Tom Brady(5 SB titles)

 

w/ Parcells Bledsoe made a SB, w/ Belichick Bledsoe was 5-13.  Parcells in 4 places doesn't have a losing record anywhere despite taking over awful franchises(at the time). Belichick in Cleveland was almost 10 games below .500 and BB in NE without Brady is under .500.

 

 

I know it's hard for fans to see past the SBs w/ Brady but Brady transformed the Patriots and BB's HC career.  I do believe BB has developed into a great HC but he's never won a thing w/o Brady and would be a DC somewhere today if it were not for Tom Brady. Parcells could win w/ anyone.

He took over NYG in 1983, previous 4 years the Giants were 23-34.  NYG had made playoffs ONE time from 1964-1982. By year 2 they were back in the playoffs.

He took over NE 1993, previous 4 years they were 14-50 and had the Lisa Olsen sexual harassment scandal in the LR. By year 2 he had NE at 10-6 and in the playoffs.

he took over NYJ in 1997, previous 4 years we were 18-46 including going 1-15 the yr before. Year 1 we had a winning record, year 2 we set franchise record for wins and were less than 30 minutes from the SB where we handed the great Bill belichick and his D a double digit lead.

he took over Dal in 2003, previous 4 years they were 23-41 including 3 straight 5-11 seasons.  year 1 w/ QUINCY CARTER they were 10-6 and in the playoffs.

 

Parcells is a guy who didn't like to prosperity, he liked to rebuild so he didn't stay long in any particular place or he'd have more SB titles, he was a much better HC than Bill Belichick.  hew could win w/ anyone not just the greatest QB of all time. Parcells once went 6-3 w/ Ray Lucas at QB while BB was 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe who BP had taken to a SB.

Parcells also won a super bowl with...Jeff Hostetler. He also had to beat the 49ers dynasty and the Bills for that Lombardi. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Parcells also won a super bowl with...Jeff Hostetler. He also had to beat the 49ers dynasty and the Bills for that Lombardi. 

he did but BB was his DC, I will give BB credit for the D playing great at SF but I am not buying the "gameplan" to allow Buf to score fast.  NYG won that game against Buf for 3 reasons:

1. the O held the ball for 40 minutes

2. Hostetler amazingly didn't lose the ball in the EZ when Bruce Smith grabbed his wrist w/ the ball(Buf scored 2 pts instead of 7)

3. Mark Ingram's amazing 3rd down conversion that set up the Giants last TD where he broke about 9 tackles.

 

[whodeawhodat]

6 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Not really related to the topic but sorta...last nights 30 for 30 with Ric Flair was amazing. Highly recommend. 

I really wanted to see this, will have to try to find it online...

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Love Gibbs also but are you implying he won without great coordinators or players?

My only point is there are no great coaches without top assistants and great players.

yes but what he did do is win without a great qb.  theisman was good, rypien was marginal, and williams was a cast off.

[rangerous]

42 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he did but BB was his DC, I will give BB credit for the D playing great at SF but I am not buying the "gameplan" to allow Buf to score fast.  NYG won that game against Buf for 3 reasons:

1. the O held the ball for 40 minutes

2. Hostetler amazingly didn't lose the ball in the EZ when Bruce Smith grabbed his wrist w/ the ball(Buf scored 2 pts instead of 7)

3. Mark Ingram's amazing 3rd down conversion that set up the Giants last TD where he broke about 9 tackles.

 

and scott norwood missing.

[TuscanyTile2]

6 minutes ago, rangerous said:

and scott norwood missing.

I believe it was Scott Wood

 

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

and scott norwood missing.

yes but I give Norwood a pass, that was a very tough kick on chewed up grass.  Kickers back then weren't as good as they are now and a 47 yarder on grass was a really tough kick.

[Jetster]

4 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Not really related to the topic but sorta...last nights 30 for 30 with Ric Flair was amazing. Highly recommend. 

I caught it last night, that sh*t was crazy. I was dying laughing when he talked about seeing a shrink. Wont spoil it for folks who haven't seen it yet. Dude was amped for 20 years,lol.

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

yes but I give Norwood a pass, that was a very tough kick on chewed up grass.  Kickers back then weren't as good as they are now and a 47 yarder on grass was a really tough kick.

No one in the History of the NFL has had that high stress a kick to make.

Make a career long on grass, and you win the SB.   Miss a career long and you lose.   Kickers have made the game winner as time expired (or less than 30 seconds), but only when the game was tied.   So they knew, if they missed the team had another shot.   Only Norwood had that pressure, and watch the kick.  He didn't choke it, it wasn't a shank kick, he missed by about 2 feet over 47 yards on crap grass.

[chirorob]

40 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I caught it last night, that sh*t was crazy. I was dying laughing when he talked about seeing a shrink. Wont spoil it for folks who haven't seen it yet. Dude was amped for 20 years,lol.

Almost every great catch phrase comes from Ric Flair.

"You want to be the best, you have to beat the best".   All of it.   The greatest trash talker love to hate the man in the history of sport or entertainment.  Well, maybe after Ali.

[#27TheDominator]

8 hours ago, section314 said:

Gibbs was a great coach, and may be the most underrated coach in NFL history considering how much he did win. Think about that NFC east for all those years ......Parcells, Gibbs, Vermeil and Landry. 6 games a year against those guys....wow! 

To be fair, I think they got to play the Cardinals twice a year too. 

[nyjunc]

8 hours ago, section314 said:

Gibbs was a great coach, and may be the most underrated coach in NFL history considering how much he did win. Think about that NFC east for all those years ......Parcells, Gibbs, Vermeil and Landry. 6 games a year against those guys....wow! 

Vermiel's last season was 1982, Parcells took over in 1983 and Landry was nearing the end.  His last playoff app was 1985 and he actually never won a playoff game in the years Parcells was a coach so yes the NFC East was tough and had some great coaches just not at the same time but BP and Gibbs twice a year was as good as it gets in any division.

[JetFaninMI]

6 hours ago, nyjunc said:

BB w/o Brady has been a failure of a HC.  BB w/o LT has been an average defensive coach.

every team tries to bend the rules but BB was nothing as a Dc w/o LT and nothing as a HC w/o Brady.

Nothing other than turn the worst franchise in the sport into a SB contender in NE and turning a mediocre Dallas franchise into SB contenders in Dallas.  Other than that he did nothing.

BB was nothing as defensive coach w/o the greatest defensive player of all time.

What a game plan, let's allow Buffalo to score a point a minute, it had nothing to do w/ the Giants offense holding the ball for 40 minutes.  It was all the genius Bill belichick b just like Bill not taking a TO against Seattle meant he knew they'd throw an INT.  what a genius!

Parcells made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Phil Simms(won SB)

Jeff Hostetler(won SB)

Drew Bledsoe(made SB)

Vinny Testaverde(made title game)

Quincy Carter

Tony Romo

Bill Belichick made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Vinny Testaverde(div rd)

Tom Brady(5 SB titles)

 

w/ Parcells Bledsoe made a SB, w/ Belichick Bledsoe was 5-13.  Parcells in 4 places doesn't have a losing record anywhere despite taking over awful franchises(at the time). Belichick in Cleveland was almost 10 games below .500 and BB in NE without Brady is under .500.

 

 

I know it's hard for fans to see past the SBs w/ Brady but Brady transformed the Patriots and BB's HC career.  I do believe BB has developed into a great HC but he's never won a thing w/o Brady and would be a DC somewhere today if it were not for Tom Brady. Parcells could win w/ anyone.

He took over NYG in 1983, previous 4 years the Giants were 23-34.  NYG had made playoffs ONE time from 1964-1982. By year 2 they were back in the playoffs.

He took over NE 1993, previous 4 years they were 14-50 and had the Lisa Olsen sexual harassment scandal in the LR. By year 2 he had NE at 10-6 and in the playoffs.

he took over NYJ in 1997, previous 4 years we were 18-46 including going 1-15 the yr before. Year 1 we had a winning record, year 2 we set franchise record for wins and were less than 30 minutes from the SB where we handed the great Bill belichick and his D a double digit lead.

he took over Dal in 2003, previous 4 years they were 23-41 including 3 straight 5-11 seasons.  year 1 w/ QUINCY CARTER they were 10-6 and in the playoffs.

 

Parcells is a guy who didn't like to prosperity, he liked to rebuild so he didn't stay long in any particular place or he'd have more SB titles, he was a much better HC than Bill Belichick.  hew could win w/ anyone not just the greatest QB of all time. Parcells once went 6-3 w/ Ray Lucas at QB while BB was 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe who BP had taken to a SB.

 You know Parcells this intimately? You know for a fact he was this way? No you don't. You're merely stating your opinions as fact like you always do. Parcells left those teams high and dry and then they became Super Bowl Contenders. You fail to mention that BB was on Parcells staff when he went 6-3 with Ray Lucas. Just stop the bullsh*t.

 

See more bullsh*t. BB DRAFTED Brady. He drafted the greatest of all time yet gets no credit from you. I hate arguing this point with you because it reduces me to defending BB who I normally wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. BB is hands down a better coach than Parcells was and has proved it time and again. Parcells best attribute was picking his coaching staff. He never came close to replicating the success he had with BB and all the other guys who became HC's from that staff. Granted the only one who had success was BB from those staff's but the result is the same. Parcells has never won a blessed thing since he and BB went split. This is a stone FACT that cannot be refuted or changed. F-A-C-T. Not opinion.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, JetFaninMI said:

 You know Parcells this intimately? You know for a fact he was this way? No you don't. You're merely stating your opinions as fact like you always do. Parcells left those teams high and dry and then they became Super Bowl Contenders. You fail to mention that BB was on Parcells staff when he went 6-3 with Ray Lucas. Just stop the bullsh*t.

 

See more bullsh*t. BB DRAFTED Brady. He drafted the greatest of all time yet gets no credit from you. I hate arguing this point with you because it reduces me to defending BB who I normally wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. BB is hands down a better coach than Parcells was and has proved it time and again. Parcells best attribute was picking his coaching staff. He never came close to replicating the success he had with BB and all the other guys who became HC's from that staff. Granted the only one who had success was BB from those staff's but the result is the same. Parcells has never won a blessed thing since he and BB went split. This is a stone FACT that cannot be refuted or changed. F-A-C-T. Not opinion.

I have to know him to know he didn't like to stay in one place very long? you know he had a deal to coach the Falcons after SB XXI? the Giants stepped in and would let him out of his contract so he stayed w/ them 4 more years and left after winning a 2nd SB.  He went to NE and left after a young team reached a SB(many of those players would be on the Pats when they started the dynasty), he came here and spent just 3 years here and had us on the doorstep of the SB.  he went to Dallas and had them ready to compete for SBs and walked away.  what more proof do you need? 

So you are saying BB was why we went 6-3 2/ Ray Lucas?  so why did BB go 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe? are you are talking about BS?

who cares if he drafted him? he drafted him in the SIXTH ROUND, he was hoping that MAYBE some day he'd develop into a decent backup.  BB was 5-11 year 1 w/ a SB QB, he started 0-2(including a loss to the pre Marvin lewis bengals who were always terrible) in 2001 then magically Brady starts game 3 and they go on an 11-3 tear en route to the SB.  In 2007 they go UNDEFEATED w/ Brady then a year later Brady gets hurt and despite a weaker sched they go 10-5 w/ the backup starting and MISS the playoffs. that same QB gets traded to KC and he wins a div title there. 

In 7 seasons w/o Brady as his primary starter the great BB had ONE playoff season and ONE playoff win, Bill Parcells made the playoffs with QUINCY CARTER. 

You do know Coughlin was on Parcell's staff and won 2 SBs and Sean Payton coached under BP and won a SB, right? 

The only fact is BB has never won a thing w/o Tom Brady and as a DC he was mediocre w/o LT.  Those are facts.  he's a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in history w/ those 2.

[JetFaninMI]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I have to know him to know he didn't like to stay in one place very long? you know he had a deal to coach the Falcons after SB XXI? the Giants stepped in and would let him out of his contract so he stayed w/ them 4 more years and left after winning a 2nd SB.  He went to NE and left after a young team reached a SB(many of those players would be on the Pats when they started the dynasty), he came here and spent just 3 years here and had us on the doorstep of the SB.  he went to Dallas and had them ready to compete for SBs and walked away.  what more proof do you need? 

So you are saying BB was why we went 6-3 2/ Ray Lucas?  so why did BB go 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe? are you are talking about BS?

who cares if he drafted him? he drafted him in the SIXTH ROUND, he was hoping that MAYBE some day he'd develop into a decent backup.  BB was 5-11 year 1 w/ a SB QB, he started 0-2(including a loss to the pre Marvin lewis bengals who were always terrible) in 2001 then magically Brady starts game 3 and they go on an 11-3 tear en route to the SB.  In 2007 they go UNDEFEATED w/ Brady then a year later Brady gets hurt and despite a weaker sched they go 10-5 w/ the backup starting and MISS the playoffs. that same QB gets traded to KC and he wins a div title there. 

In 7 seasons w/o Brady as his primary starter the great BB had ONE playoff season and ONE playoff win, Bill Parcells made the playoffs with QUINCY CARTER. 

You do know Coughlin was on Parcell's staff and won 2 SBs and Sean Payton coached under BP and won a SB, right? 

The only fact is BB has never won a thing w/o Tom Brady and as a DC he was mediocre w/o LT.  Those are facts.  he's a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in history w/ those 2.

Once again you fail to address the elephant in the room. BB was on his staff for all you mentioned. It doesn't matter when he drafted Brady it matters that he did. You can't seem to face up to the facts(Psycho Killer Qu'est-ce que c'est) my stubborn friend. Parcells has never won a thing without BB. F-A-C-T. BB has a better record in season and in the playoffs. F-A-C-T. Owns 7 rings to Parcells 2. F-A-C-T. Has done all those things with multiple roster turnover and multiple coaching staff changes. F-A-C-T. Jesus H Christ.

[southparkcpa]

Wasn't this thread about the Bills????