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The Two Bills (30 for 30 this winter)

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8 hours ago, section314 said:

Gibbs was a great coach, and may be the most underrated coach in NFL history considering how much he did win. Think about that NFC east for all those years ......Parcells, Gibbs, Vermeil and Landry. 6 games a year against those guys....wow! 

Vermiel's last season was 1982, Parcells took over in 1983 and Landry was nearing the end.  His last playoff app was 1985 and he actually never won a playoff game in the years Parcells was a coach so yes the NFC East was tough and had some great coaches just not at the same time but BP and Gibbs twice a year was as good as it gets in any division.

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6 hours ago, nyjunc said:

BB w/o Brady has been a failure of a HC.  BB w/o LT has been an average defensive coach.

every team tries to bend the rules but BB was nothing as a Dc w/o LT and nothing as a HC w/o Brady.

Nothing other than turn the worst franchise in the sport into a SB contender in NE and turning a mediocre Dallas franchise into SB contenders in Dallas.  Other than that he did nothing.

BB was nothing as defensive coach w/o the greatest defensive player of all time.

What a game plan, let's allow Buffalo to score a point a minute, it had nothing to do w/ the Giants offense holding the ball for 40 minutes.  It was all the genius Bill belichick b just like Bill not taking a TO against Seattle meant he knew they'd throw an INT.  what a genius!

Parcells made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Phil Simms(won SB)

Jeff Hostetler(won SB)

Drew Bledsoe(made SB)

Vinny Testaverde(made title game)

Quincy Carter

Tony Romo

Bill Belichick made the playoffs as a HC w/:

Vinny Testaverde(div rd)

Tom Brady(5 SB titles)

 

w/ Parcells Bledsoe made a SB, w/ Belichick Bledsoe was 5-13.  Parcells in 4 places doesn't have a losing record anywhere despite taking over awful franchises(at the time). Belichick in Cleveland was almost 10 games below .500 and BB in NE without Brady is under .500.

 

 

I know it's hard for fans to see past the SBs w/ Brady but Brady transformed the Patriots and BB's HC career.  I do believe BB has developed into a great HC but he's never won a thing w/o Brady and would be a DC somewhere today if it were not for Tom Brady. Parcells could win w/ anyone.

He took over NYG in 1983, previous 4 years the Giants were 23-34.  NYG had made playoffs ONE time from 1964-1982. By year 2 they were back in the playoffs.

He took over NE 1993, previous 4 years they were 14-50 and had the Lisa Olsen sexual harassment scandal in the LR. By year 2 he had NE at 10-6 and in the playoffs.

he took over NYJ in 1997, previous 4 years we were 18-46 including going 1-15 the yr before. Year 1 we had a winning record, year 2 we set franchise record for wins and were less than 30 minutes from the SB where we handed the great Bill belichick and his D a double digit lead.

he took over Dal in 2003, previous 4 years they were 23-41 including 3 straight 5-11 seasons.  year 1 w/ QUINCY CARTER they were 10-6 and in the playoffs.

 

Parcells is a guy who didn't like to prosperity, he liked to rebuild so he didn't stay long in any particular place or he'd have more SB titles, he was a much better HC than Bill Belichick.  hew could win w/ anyone not just the greatest QB of all time. Parcells once went 6-3 w/ Ray Lucas at QB while BB was 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe who BP had taken to a SB.

 You know Parcells this intimately? You know for a fact he was this way? No you don't. You're merely stating your opinions as fact like you always do. Parcells left those teams high and dry and then they became Super Bowl Contenders. You fail to mention that BB was on Parcells staff when he went 6-3 with Ray Lucas. Just stop the bullsh*t.

 

See more bullsh*t. BB DRAFTED Brady. He drafted the greatest of all time yet gets no credit from you. I hate arguing this point with you because it reduces me to defending BB who I normally wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. BB is hands down a better coach than Parcells was and has proved it time and again. Parcells best attribute was picking his coaching staff. He never came close to replicating the success he had with BB and all the other guys who became HC's from that staff. Granted the only one who had success was BB from those staff's but the result is the same. Parcells has never won a blessed thing since he and BB went split. This is a stone FACT that cannot be refuted or changed. F-A-C-T. Not opinion.

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1 minute ago, JetFaninMI said:

 You know Parcells this intimately? You know for a fact he was this way? No you don't. You're merely stating your opinions as fact like you always do. Parcells left those teams high and dry and then they became Super Bowl Contenders. You fail to mention that BB was on Parcells staff when he went 6-3 with Ray Lucas. Just stop the bullsh*t.

 

See more bullsh*t. BB DRAFTED Brady. He drafted the greatest of all time yet gets no credit from you. I hate arguing this point with you because it reduces me to defending BB who I normally wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. BB is hands down a better coach than Parcells was and has proved it time and again. Parcells best attribute was picking his coaching staff. He never came close to replicating the success he had with BB and all the other guys who became HC's from that staff. Granted the only one who had success was BB from those staff's but the result is the same. Parcells has never won a blessed thing since he and BB went split. This is a stone FACT that cannot be refuted or changed. F-A-C-T. Not opinion.

I have to know him to know he didn't like to stay in one place very long? you know he had a deal to coach the Falcons after SB XXI? the Giants stepped in and would let him out of his contract so he stayed w/ them 4 more years and left after winning a 2nd SB.  He went to NE and left after a young team reached a SB(many of those players would be on the Pats when they started the dynasty), he came here and spent just 3 years here and had us on the doorstep of the SB.  he went to Dallas and had them ready to compete for SBs and walked away.  what more proof do you need? 

So you are saying BB was why we went 6-3 2/ Ray Lucas?  so why did BB go 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe? are you are talking about BS?

who cares if he drafted him? he drafted him in the SIXTH ROUND, he was hoping that MAYBE some day he'd develop into a decent backup.  BB was 5-11 year 1 w/ a SB QB, he started 0-2(including a loss to the pre Marvin lewis bengals who were always terrible) in 2001 then magically Brady starts game 3 and they go on an 11-3 tear en route to the SB.  In 2007 they go UNDEFEATED w/ Brady then a year later Brady gets hurt and despite a weaker sched they go 10-5 w/ the backup starting and MISS the playoffs. that same QB gets traded to KC and he wins a div title there. 

In 7 seasons w/o Brady as his primary starter the great BB had ONE playoff season and ONE playoff win, Bill Parcells made the playoffs with QUINCY CARTER. 

You do know Coughlin was on Parcell's staff and won 2 SBs and Sean Payton coached under BP and won a SB, right? 

The only fact is BB has never won a thing w/o Tom Brady and as a DC he was mediocre w/o LT.  Those are facts.  he's a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in history w/ those 2.

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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I have to know him to know he didn't like to stay in one place very long? you know he had a deal to coach the Falcons after SB XXI? the Giants stepped in and would let him out of his contract so he stayed w/ them 4 more years and left after winning a 2nd SB.  He went to NE and left after a young team reached a SB(many of those players would be on the Pats when they started the dynasty), he came here and spent just 3 years here and had us on the doorstep of the SB.  he went to Dallas and had them ready to compete for SBs and walked away.  what more proof do you need? 

So you are saying BB was why we went 6-3 2/ Ray Lucas?  so why did BB go 5-13 w/ Drew Bledsoe? are you are talking about BS?

who cares if he drafted him? he drafted him in the SIXTH ROUND, he was hoping that MAYBE some day he'd develop into a decent backup.  BB was 5-11 year 1 w/ a SB QB, he started 0-2(including a loss to the pre Marvin lewis bengals who were always terrible) in 2001 then magically Brady starts game 3 and they go on an 11-3 tear en route to the SB.  In 2007 they go UNDEFEATED w/ Brady then a year later Brady gets hurt and despite a weaker sched they go 10-5 w/ the backup starting and MISS the playoffs. that same QB gets traded to KC and he wins a div title there. 

In 7 seasons w/o Brady as his primary starter the great BB had ONE playoff season and ONE playoff win, Bill Parcells made the playoffs with QUINCY CARTER. 

You do know Coughlin was on Parcell's staff and won 2 SBs and Sean Payton coached under BP and won a SB, right? 

The only fact is BB has never won a thing w/o Tom Brady and as a DC he was mediocre w/o LT.  Those are facts.  he's a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in history w/ those 2.

Once again you fail to address the elephant in the room. BB was on his staff for all you mentioned. It doesn't matter when he drafted Brady it matters that he did. You can't seem to face up to the facts(Psycho Killer Qu'est-ce que c'est) my stubborn friend. Parcells has never won a thing without BB. F-A-C-T. BB has a better record in season and in the playoffs. F-A-C-T. Owns 7 rings to Parcells 2. F-A-C-T. Has done all those things with multiple roster turnover and multiple coaching staff changes. F-A-C-T. Jesus H Christ.

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1 hour ago, victorjets said:

Will they hide the fact that Belicheat stole a cool mil from a dying man?

Truth is not important.... It's simply a circle-j*rk fest for Parcells & the biggest d**shbag cheater of all time

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14 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Once again you fail to address the elephant in the room. BB was on his staff for all you mentioned. It doesn't matter when he drafted Brady it matters that he did. You can't seem to face up to the facts(Psycho Killer Qu'est-ce que c'est) my stubborn friend. Parcells has never won a thing without BB. F-A-C-T. BB has a better record in season and in the playoffs. F-A-C-T. Owns 7 rings to Parcells 2. F-A-C-T. Has done all those things with multiple roster turnover and multiple coaching staff changes. F-A-C-T. Jesus H Christ.

BB wasn't on staff when he rebuilt the Pats or the Cowboys, BB joined the staff in NE after they were built.

Parcells w/o BB:

NE 1993-1995, Dallas 2003-2006 7 seasons total

3 playoff appearances

Belichikc w/o Brady:

Cle 1991-1995, NE 2000, 2008 7 seasons total

ONE playoff appearance

 

records w/o Tom Brady:

Bill Parcells: 172-130-1, 10 playoff apps, 2 SB titles, 3 conf titles, 5 div titles

Bill Belichick: 51-62, 1 playoff app, 1 WC win, 0 div titles, 0 SBs, 0 title game apps

 

records w/ common QBs:

w/ Drew Bledsoe:

BP: 32-27, 2 PO apps, 1 div title, 1 conf title, 1 SB app, 2 PO wins

BB: 5-13

Vinny Testaverde:

BP: 12-2, div title, div rd win, title game app

BB: 16-15, WC app, WC win, div rd app

 

Parcells took over 4 of the worst franchises at the time in the sport and turned them all around and despite this has the same # of losing seasons as Belichick.  Bill Belichick was a total failure as a HC w/o Tom Brady.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

BB wasn't on staff when he rebuilt the Pats or the Cowboys, BB joined the staff in NE after they were built.

Parcells w/o BB:

NE 1993-1995, Dallas 2003-2006 7 seasons total

3 playoff appearances

Belichikc w/o Brady:

Cle 1991-1995, NE 2000, 2008 7 seasons total

ONE playoff appearance

 

records w/o Tom Brady:

Bill Parcells: 172-130-1, 10 playoff apps, 2 SB titles, 3 conf titles, 5 div titles

Bill Belichick: 51-62, 1 playoff app, 1 WC win, 0 div titles, 0 SBs, 0 title game apps

 

records w/ common QBs:

w/ Drew Bledsoe:

BP: 32-27, 2 PO apps, 1 div title, 1 conf title, 1 SB app, 2 PO wins

BB: 5-13

Vinny Testaverde:

BP: 12-2, div title, div rd win, title game app

BB: 16-15, WC app, WC win, div rd app

 

Parcells took over 4 of the worst franchises at the time in the sport and turned them all around and despite this has the same # of losing seasons as Belichick.  Bill Belichick was a total failure as a HC w/o Tom Brady.

 

 

From 1993 to 1995 the Patriots were 5-11, 10-6, 6-10 under Parcells. The 10-6 mark was because of a soft schedule due to the previous years record. That team was soundly beaten in the Super Bowl by Green Bay. You call that turning around a franchise?

In the four seasons he was with the Cowboys they made the playoffs twice and never got past the Wild Card game. Once again the soft schedule comes into play because he never made the playoffs 2 years in a row with that team. In 2006 they went 9-7 and Wade Phillips went 13-3 playing a playoff teams tougher schedule the next season. So by your logic Phillips is the better coach than Parcells because he took the same players Parcells had, played a tougher schedule, and had a better record.

BB still has the better record, took the Patriots who were still a mediocre team at best an made them elite. He drafted what many people call the GOAT at the position and you give him no credit for it because it was in the 6th round. BB has never had a losing record as coach of the Patriots AND has won in double digits every year but one. In 2001 his second season with the team he took a 5-11 team and he won the friggin Super Bowl with a rookie QB. That was all Brady and had nothing to do with BB? HE DRAFTED THE GUY.

Parcells was a good coach but compared to BB he doesn't stack-up. 7 Super Bowl rings, 5 of them as a HC. He has turned over his roster numerous times and still has never had a losing season with the Patriots. He has brought in star players and no names and still won. That has nothing to do with his system? You keep harping on BB's record without Brady but we will never know what would have become of Brady without BB. That defeats that argument right there.

Dude your exposed. You will never admit that without BB Parcells is just a good coach and not a great one. The funny thing is I have no love for either guy but I respect what they have done. BB has simply turned into a better coach than Parcells was. Deal with it.

 

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5 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

From 1993 to 1995 the Patriots were 5-11, 10-6, 6-10 under Parcells. The 10-6 mark was because of a soft schedule due to the previous years record. That team was soundly beaten in the Super Bowl by Green Bay. You call that turning around a franchise?

In the four seasons he was with the Cowboys they made the playoffs twice and never got past the Wild Card game. Once again the soft schedule comes into play because he never made the playoffs 2 years in a row with that team. In 2006 they went 9-7 and Wade Phillips went 13-3 playing a playoff teams tougher schedule the next season. So by your logic Phillips is the better coach than Parcells because he took the same players Parcells had, played a tougher schedule, and had a better record.

BB still has the better record, took the Patriots who were still a mediocre team at best an made them elite. He drafted what many people call the GOAT at the position and you give him no credit for it because it was in the 6th round. BB has never had a losing record as coach of the Patriots AND has won in double digits every year but one. In 2001 his second season with the team he took a 5-11 team and he won the friggin Super Bowl with a rookie QB. That was all Brady and had nothing to do with BB? HE DRAFTED THE GUY.

Parcells was a good coach but compared to BB he doesn't stack-up. 7 Super Bowl rings, 5 of them as a HC. He has turned over his roster numerous times and still has never had a losing season with the Patriots. He has brought in star players and no names and still won. That has nothing to do with his system? You keep harping on BB's record without Brady but we will never know what would have become of Brady without BB. That defeats that argument right there.

Dude your exposed. You will never admit that without BB Parcells is just a good coach and not a great one. The funny thing is I have no love for either guy but I respect what they have done. BB has simply turned into a better coach than Parcells was. Deal with it.

 

Let's start w/ the soft sched in 1994:

(*=playoff team)

vs. 10-6 Mia* 2x

vs. 9-7 Det*

vs. 9-7 GB*

vs. 9-7 LA Raiders

vs. 11-5 Cle*

vs. 10-6 Min*

vs. 11-5 SD*

vs 8-8 Ind 2x

vs. 9-7 Chi*

11 of their 16 games were against teams .500 or better

8 of their 16 games were against playoff bound teams

can we put the soft sched excuse to bed please?

Yes they were turned around.  This was the worst franchise in football, they won 9 total games the 3 previous seasons and had ownership issues as well as the sexual harassment scandal in the LR w/ Lisa Olsen.  They played well late in 1993, then were really good in 1994, they took a step back like many younger teams learning to win do in 1995 and were back in 1996.

"they were soundly beaten" by Gb in the SB?  the final score was 14 but they pulled w/in 6 before their backs were broken on the ensuing KO for a TD.  They competed and that was back in the days when the NFC totally dominated the AFC. During the long NFC SB win streak the average margin of victory from 1984-1995 was 21 PPG and games were usually over by halftime.  this was a one score game late in the 3rd and still competitive throughout w/ DREW BLEDSOE at QB- yes the same guy that BB would go 5-13 with before Brady saved him and that franchise.

 

In Dallas once realignment happened in 2002 only 2 games get determined by where you finish so the soft sched b/c they had a bad year definitely doesn't work as the only difference btw the 1st place and last place teams are 2 games. Parcells developed that talent and had them ready to win, 2 PO seasons in 4 seasons after what they had been through was huge. 

 

BB never made a SB w/o LT on D or Brady on O.  BB was a complete failure as a HC w/o Tom Brady and a mediocre Dc w/o LT.

exposed?  You are funny, I am destroying your weak arguments, all you are doing is making pathetic excuses such as the schedule which you don't have a clue about.

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5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Let's start w/ the soft sched in 1994:

(*=playoff team)

vs. 10-6 Mia* 2x

vs. 9-7 Det*

vs. 9-7 GB*

vs. 9-7 LA Raiders

vs. 11-5 Cle*

vs. 10-6 Min*

vs. 11-5 SD*

vs 8-8 Ind 2x

vs. 9-7 Chi*

11 of their 16 games were against teams .500 or better

8 of their 16 games were against playoff bound teams

can we put the soft sched excuse to bed please?

Yes they were turned around.  This was the worst franchise in football, they won 9 total games the 3 previous seasons and had ownership issues as well as the sexual harassment scandal in the LR w/ Lisa Olsen.  They played well late in 1993, then were really good in 1994, they took a step back like many younger teams learning to win do in 1995 and were back in 1996.

"they were soundly beaten" by Gb in the SB?  the final score was 14 but they pulled w/in 6 before their backs were broken on the ensuing KO for a TD.  They competed and that was back in the days when the NFC totally dominated the AFC. During the long NFC SB win streak the average margin of victory from 1984-1995 was 21 PPG and games were usually over by halftime.  this was a one score game late in the 3rd and still competitive throughout w/ DREW BLEDSOE at QB- yes the same guy that BB would go 5-13 with before Brady saved him and that franchise.

 

In Dallas once realignment happened in 2002 only 2 games get determined by where you finish so the soft sched b/c they had a bad year definitely doesn't work as the only difference btw the 1st place and last place teams are 2 games. Parcells developed that talent and had them ready to win, 2 PO seasons in 4 seasons after what they had been through was huge. 

 

BB never made a SB w/o LT on D or Brady on O.  BB was a complete failure as a HC w/o Tom Brady and a mediocre Dc w/o LT.

exposed?  You are funny, I am destroying your weak arguments, all you are doing is making pathetic excuses such as the schedule which you don't have a clue about.

LOL He still drafted Brady. It doesn't matter what round he drafted him in.Does Brady draw up the game plan? Does Brady draft the players? You only refuted 1 season on the schedule thing but have never refuted anything else. Your answer is BB never won without Brady.  Parcells never won a Super Bowl without BB on his staff. You can't refute that nor can you change it. Dude your biggest argument is that BB never won without Brady yet you continue to ignore Parcells has never won a Super Bowl without BB. NEVER WON A SUPER BOWL WITHOUT BB. NEVER. This is a fact you will continue to ignore because you have no way to challenge it.

image.png

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If BB felt Parcells was overrated and only won because of him, why show up front and center at his HOF ceremony to support him? Why would he praise him in news conferences and interviews? He has never bashed him, ever. They're actually still friends, and clearly BB is a HOF coach who learned a lot and sees Parcells as his mentor who helped groom him.

Anyone bashing Parcells' track record is just pure crazy. The man is a legend,

- won 2 super bowls with 2 different qbs

- went to 3 super bowls with 3 different qbs

- 1 quarter away from going to 4 with 4 different ones. 

-  each team he took over were last place teams.

- His time with Dallas, 4 years, 3 winning seasons and if Romo doesn't fumble that snap who knows how far they go? But he still turned tha team around conpletely.

Some people here hate him cause when he coached here he tried to win now (which was his mandate by Leon Hess and almost did. Back luck in '99). Yet he still gave us a nice foundation after he left.

Its not his fault BB weaseled his way out to NE. He was trying to set us up for a HC who was finally groomed and ready after his Cleveland debacle. Drafted us Ellis/Abraham/Pennington who without injury was a franchise qb, all in one draft. No it didnt all work out perfectly but to hate on him and question his resume? Lunacy. 

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The whole situation with BB leaving was always peculiar obviously. Think about it, BB signs extension after 98 to be the HC OF NYJ after Parcells leaves, knowing Parcells was still the GM. So he was okay with that, even had meetings as the HC after 99 season with Parcells and coaching staff to get ready for 2000.

So what changed really? I don't think its as simple as, "he wanted out of Parcells shadow." As noted earlier, he seemed fine with that arrangement before. I mean who coach wouldn't want full control? Im sure it was a factor, but not the only one. Whch brings me to my next point...

BB didn't care when Saban his old assistant went to Miami, or whenever he had to coach against a former assistant, he always praised them. He told Mangini he couldn't go to Jets and then exiled him (before spygate he had already disowned Mangini).

So whats the common denominator. Woody Johnson. Who knows what happened, or what that douchebag said or tried to pull with BB when he bought the team. Maybe all it took was one conversation....maybe BB asked him "whats your vision for this team? Am I in your long terms plans?" And our sh*t for brains owner said "well idk, we'll see because things didn't go so well in Cleveland." 

Who knows. But the point is, I believe our moron owner who just bought the team was hoping or convince he could sway Parcells to stay on as coach at the time and it was all the motivation to take Kraft's deal and hate the Jets forever. We know BB hates the Jets more than any team. It has to be because of Woody Johnson. 

My theory anyway. 

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A lot of omissions, fantasy and revisionist history in this thread.

Of course BB hates the Jets.

When he quit as NYJ HC it was to pay them back for when they first named him HC 3 years earlier and then told him sorry we got BP instead.

In 1997 the Jets had "settled" for BB as HC when they couldnt poach BP fro the NEP. HOWEVER only a week later they demoted him to DC when they found out they were actually going to be able to sign BP as HC.

Fast forward 3 years and its payback time with his infamous "I resign as HC of the NYJ" speech.

 

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10 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

LOL He still drafted Brady. It doesn't matter what round he drafted him in.Does Brady draw up the game plan? Does Brady draft the players? You only refuted 1 season on the schedule thing but have never refuted anything else. Your answer is BB never won without Brady.  Parcells never won a Super Bowl without BB on his staff. You can't refute that nor can you change it. Dude your biggest argument is that BB never won without Brady yet you continue to ignore Parcells has never won a Super Bowl without BB. NEVER WON A SUPER BOWL WITHOUT BB. NEVER. This is a fact you will continue to ignore because you have no way to challenge it.

image.png

we are at the meme portion of the debate, a clear sign someone knows they are being roasted.

he drafted Brady in round 6. did he put the gameplans together through his first 18 games as NE HC?  what happened? what changed btw game 18 and game 19?

I specifically only refuted one of the easy sched comments you made, the other I refuted based on the reality that only 2 games are determined by where you finish, you stated they had an easy sched b/c they had a down year.  that is meaningless and was refuted. 

BP didn't coach long w/o BB, you act like he coached 15-20 yrs w/o him.  he had a few years rebuilding NE and Dallas.

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1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

A lot of omissions, fantasy and revisionist history in this thread.

Of course BB hates the Jets.

When he quit as NYJ HC it was to pay them back for when they first named him HC 3 years earlier and then told him sorry we got BP instead.

In 1997 the Jets had "settled" for BB as HC when they couldnt poach BP fro the NEP. HOWEVER only a week later they demoted him to DC when they found out they were actually going to be able to sign BP as HC.

Fast forward 3 years and its payback time with his infamous "I resign as HC of the NYJ" speech.

 

you know he was in on the being hired as "HC" while we worked out a deal to get BP, right? the plan all along was as soon as they could get BP(and the hope was for the first year) that he'd be associate HC/DC and succeed BP when BP retired. 

He didn't leave us for that, he left b/c BP kept him in the dark and he didn't know if BP was retiring in 1999. He hates the Jets b/c of Steve Gutman's PC following BB's resignation where he called BB a troubled man.

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2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

The whole situation with BB leaving was always peculiar obviously. Think about it, BB signs extension after 98 to be the HC OF NYJ after Parcells leaves, knowing Parcells was still the GM. So he was okay with that, even had meetings as the HC after 99 season with Parcells and coaching staff to get ready for 2000.

So what changed really? I don't think its as simple as, "he wanted out of Parcells shadow." As noted earlier, he seemed fine with that arrangement before. I mean who coach wouldn't want full control? Im sure it was a factor, but not the only one. Whch brings me to my next point...

BB didn't care when Saban his old assistant went to Miami, or whenever he had to coach against a former assistant, he always praised them. He told Mangini he couldn't go to Jets and then exiled him (before spygate he had already disowned Mangini).

So whats the common denominator. Woody Johnson. Who knows what happened, or what that douchebag said or tried to pull with BB when he bought the team. Maybe all it took was one conversation....maybe BB asked him "whats your vision for this team? Am I in your long terms plans?" And our sh*t for brains owner said "well idk, we'll see because things didn't go so well in Cleveland." 

Who knows. But the point is, I believe our moron owner who just bought the team was hoping or convince he could sway Parcells to stay on as coach at the time and it was all the motivation to take Kraft's deal and hate the Jets forever. We know BB hates the Jets more than any team. It has to be because of Woody Johnson. 

My theory anyway. 

he didn't sign an extension following 1998.  His original contract w/ us said he would be elevated to HC when BP stepped down.  What happened after 1998 was Hess wanted to make sure the staff stayed together so he gave him a  mil $ bonus to not seek HC jobs even though no one wanted him.

the problem was BP kept him in the dark until he announced he wasn't coming back, he though BP may be back and wanted to be a HC so he started talking to Kraft to set that up and had his deal done before BP "retired".

Woody wasn't around when BB was here, Woody has nothing to do w/ why he hates us.  Steve Gutman is why he hates us.

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14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you know he was in on the being hired as "HC" while we worked out a deal to get BP, right? the plan all along was as soon as they could get BP(and the hope was for the first year) that he'd be associate HC/DC and succeed BP when BP retired. 

He didn't leave us for that, he left b/c BP kept him in the dark and he didn't know if BP was retiring in 1999. He hates the Jets b/c of Steve Gutman's PC following BB's resignation where he called BB a troubled man.

Like I said...a lot of omissions, fantasy and revisionist history in this thread.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

he didn't sign an extension following 1998.  His original contract w/ us said he would be elevated to HC when BP stepped down.  What happened after 1998 was Hess wanted to make sure the staff stayed together so he gave him a  mil $ bonus to not seek HC jobs even though no one wanted him.

the problem was BP kept him in the dark until he announced he wasn't coming back, he though BP may be back and wanted to be a HC so he started talking to Kraft to set that up and had his deal done before BP "retired".

Woody wasn't around when BB was here, Woody has nothing to do w/ why he hates us.  Steve Gutman is why he hates us.

Extension was the wrong word to use, but that bonus was basically as you said his assurance he'd stay here.

Even tho Woody wasnt officially announced until mid january and BB quit a few days after new years, the deal had already been approved that it would be Woody Johnson in advance to that. 

My conspiracy theory is that Woody slightes BB or made him feel unwanted or marginal. So yeah, I'm blaming Gutman and Woody.

 

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6 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Like I said...a lot of omissions, fantasy and revisionist history in this thread.

the fantasy is coming from your post, you just don't know what you are talking about here.

5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Extension was the wrong word to use, but that bonus was basically as you said his assurance he'd stay here.

Even tho Woody wasnt officially announced until mid january and BB quit a few days after new years, the deal had already been approved that it would be Woody Johnson in advance to that. 

My conspiracy theory is that Woody slightes BB or made him feel unwanted or marginal. So yeah, I'm blaming Gutman and Woody.

 

I know many fans don't like Woody but he literally had nothing to do w/ it.  It was all BP and his hatred comes from Gutman.

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On 11/8/2017 at 12:33 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

I believe it was Scott Wood

 

Did anyone happen to catch the great music playing in this clip.... Oh crap we're supposed to be talking about BP vs BB....   BP over BB any day of the week hands down.... for no other reason then "I resign as HC of the NYJ"  Slimeball.

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25 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

the fantasy is coming from your post, you just don't know what you are talking about here.

 

I can substantiate every word of what I posted regarding the two Bills as fact from valid sources.

I do not offer opinions as fact and when I do offer an opinion I make sure I state it as such.

You on the other hand, in this thread and so many others, weave a mix of quasi-truths, your opinions and other subjective claims so emphatically on us as if you were in attendance of these meetings or better yet like they were whispered in your ear by the ghost of George Halas.

In your world of separate reality everything you think and want to be true is  true and there is no room for anyone else to be even partially correct if it doesn't square up exactly  to your perception of events.

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1 minute ago, Kleckineau said:

I can substantiate every word of what I posted regarding the two Bills as fact from valid sources.

I do not offer opinions as fact and when I do offer an opinion I make sure I state it as such.

You on the other hand, in this thread and so many others, weave a mix of quasi-truths, your opinions and other subjective claims so emphatically on us as if you were in attendance of these meetings or better yet like they were whispered in your ear by the ghost of George Halas.

In your world of separate reality everything you think and want to be true is  true and there is no room for anyone else to be even partially correct if it doesn't square up exactly  to your perception of events.

please post them. this should be hilarious. 

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46 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Cool. Cool. A thread where posters are tearing up the legacies of Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick on the same page as a thread expressing disbelief that Todd Bowles isn’t getting more consideration for Coach of the Year. Cool. Cool. 

Just wait till Kacy gets canned and Todd lures BB back to NY as his DC just you wait.

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4 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

Did anyone happen to catch the great music playing in this clip.... Oh crap we're supposed to be talking about BP vs BB....   BP over BB any day of the week hands down.... for no other reason then "I resign as HC of the NYJ"  Slimeball.

"Heart of the Sunrise" by Yes

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18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Cool. Cool. A thread where posters are tearing up the legacies of Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick on the same page as a thread expressing disbelief that Todd Bowles isn’t getting more consideration for Coach of the Year. Cool. Cool. 

Bowles is a joke and it’s a joke I have to watch him fal asleep on the sidelines another year because we went 7-9

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2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Bowles is a joke and it’s a joke I have to watch him fal asleep on the sidelines another year because we went 7-9

That’s ridiculous where would jets fans get it in their heads that Bowles was really good certainly not from that jets hating liar Manish that no *****real***** Jets fans would ever rea ohhhhhhhhhhhhh waaaaaiiittttt

 

3C2BACE5-827B-4FB4-9FB7-C88C706F36E9.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That’s ridiculous where would jets fans get it in their heads that Bowles was really good certainly not from that jets hating liar Manish that no *****real***** Jets fans would ever rea ohhhhhhhhhhhhh waaaaaiiittttt

 

3C2BACE5-827B-4FB4-9FB7-C88C706F36E9.jpeg

Manish and Costello are the biggest Bowles d-cksuckers.  Why anyone reads anything those two idiots write ever is beyond my comprehension 

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