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Baker Mayfield


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7 minutes ago, JiF said:

I literally just listed a bunch of guys with rings who are notoriously not referred to as "leaders".  There were literally rumors most players on the Packers hated Aaron Rodgers. Favre was apparently a complete dick to him, no pun intended.  These things, didn't matter because they're good Football players.  Apparently most of the Seahawks hate Russell Wilson.  I highly doubt Cam Newton is some incredible leader.  

Drew Brees sits in the middle of a huddle before every single game doing hu-rah sh*t like a college player.  He's had more losing seasons than winning seasons despite his 1 ring. 

Again, leadership is important but it's completely overrated around here. Good Football players are much more important and you don't need your QB to be the biggest leader of you team but you need him to be good at quarterbacking. 

 

 

We are really confusing on field leadership and off the field leadership here.

Cam, Ben, and Russel wilson are all not exactly the most likable guys on their respective teams in the locker room and off the field. However with Ben and Wilson when they step on the field, and they need a late score, their teammates believe they are going to get them there because they are good players.

Leadership is not just the rah-rah stuff as a QB.  Leadership is putting in the time during the week so that your teammates know you are fully prepared to do your job, playing hurt, and performing your best when its needed most. 

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9 minutes ago, BCJet said:

We are really confusing on field leadership and off the field leadership here.

Cam, Ben, and Russel wilson are all not exactly the most likable guys on their respective teams in the locker room and off the field. However with Ben and Wilson when they step on the field, and they need a late score, their teammates believe they are going to get them there because they are good players.

Leadership is not just the rah-rah stuff as a QB.  Leadership is putting in the time during the week so that your teammates know you are fully prepared to do your job, playing hurt, and performing your best when its needed most. 

Exactly. Good Football players >>>> great leaders.  If you do it on the field, you'll command respect and gain the confidence of the team.  Which matters more IMO.

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Baker Mayfield is an imperfect NFL prospect, but for PR and strategic reasons, they have to take him if they do not sign Cousins.

Other teams need to know the Jets are going to take him, so maybe they trade up ahead of the Jets or offer the Jets a great deal to trade down.  No one was offering the Jets anything last year, despite the worst QB situation on paper (at the time) and McCown only under a 1 year contract, because they knew how Mac drafts and knew he would get suckered into Adams and not draft Mahomes or Watson.   The fans will go absolutely bananas if we leave Mayfield on the board.

Mayfield will be an entertaining NFL QB.   He is clearly worth the chance for the 8th pick in the draft.  The Jets can also sign a McCown or someone else mid-tier and still have a below average QB budget.  

But Cousins is clearly the easy way out for this team.  To respond to another thread, if they use their draft picks on pure BPAs and spend smart in FA, this IS a playoff team next year with Cousins.  Is Cousins a Super Bowl QB?  I don't know.  I think a Super Bowl QB needs a great long ball and great WRs to stretch the field against top defenses.  

Cousins is worth alot to the Jets.  Just not stupid money, and it would be great to be able to get out of a Cousins deal after 2 years, maybe 3.

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I want the Jets to DRAFT a QB because I'm sick of picking up other team's rejects, no matter how good their press clippings tell me they are.  FA QB's have generally not worked out for the Jets, and I'd much rather have a home grown player to root for for 10+ years than a hired mercenary that will be here for only a few (Esiason, ODonnell, Testaverde, Favre). 

Whether you liked them or not and whether they got us to the playoffs or not, I had a much better time rooting for QB's like Todd, O'Brien, Pennington and even Sanchez and Smith, over any of the other hired guns I mentioned. Just my opinion.  Curious how others feel about this.

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15 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Curious how others feel about this.

From a "ease of rooting" standpoint? 

Drafted QB >>>>> Hired Veteran QB

When you draft he a guy, he's YOUR guy.

When you sign a guy, he's a guy someone else didn't want anymore, and has baggage from his pro time with those other guys.

The Vet could still be the better choice, obviously, but its far easier IMO to root for "your guy".

Example:  Cousins may be the better choice for 2018.  Probably is.  But I'd be WAY more excited to draft Baker Mayfield.  Partially because Mayfield would be "our guy", while Cousins is a Skins reject who failed to win there.  Partially because Cousins will cost 30 million, Mayfield will be ultra-cheap for 5 years.

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14 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

I want the Jets to DRAFT a QB because I'm sick of picking up other team's rejects, no matter how good their press clippings tell me they are.  FA QB's have generally not worked out for the Jets, and I'd much rather have a home grown player to root for for 10+ years than a hired mercenary that will be here for only a few (Esiason, ODonnell, Testaverde, Favre). 

Whether you liked them or not and whether they got us to the playoffs or not, I had a much better time rooting for QB's like Todd, O'Brien, Pennington and even Sanchez and Smith, over any of the other hired guns I mentioned. Just my opinion.  Curious how others feel about this.

I prefer home grown

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On 12/12/2017 at 3:22 PM, JiF said:

You're right.  That was a bit extreme using a run first QB as a comparison.  That said, I don't see what you see in Mayfield.  Not at all.  He has more of the Manziel type tendencies that he buys time for the big play.  Which is great when you watch Russell Wilson do it but it's not really want you want your QB to be doing every game.  I'm sure if Seattle could protect Wilson better and keep him throwing from the pocket more often, they'd highly prefer that opposed to trying to make something out of nothing every play.  And Mayfield is not Wilson type elusive.  

I've watched enough to see that Mayfield doesn't manipulate the pocket because he's avoiding pressure.  He's doing it because in that conference, big plays can happen on every single snap.  See Mahomes for example last year.  Just about every single play he made was because he waited long enough for someone to get open.  It just doesn't translate.  

And no.  Oklahoma is not great because of Mayfield.  They've been the big dog since the day Bob Stoops took over.  They've dominated their conference more than Bama has dominated the SEC.

And I agree.  Seeing what Baker can do vs. real defenses is going to be very telling. 

Wait, A QB that has pocket presence, that can make most every throw, hits the receivers that are open, scrambles successfully when the pocket breaks down, can keep his eyes downfield is not someone you'd like to have ?  I get that OU has a great offense and that the Big12 doesn't play much defense, but that's not OU's fault for having a superior offense. Wait, TCU was supposed to have a great defense in the Big 12, how did those to games turn out for them when playing against OU. Listen, I'm not even an OU fan, but I watched him this year because of the fact the tank wasn't going the way it should have, and he has impressed the *%$ out of me. Some of the TD's he's thrown to the TE are great throws... Am I wondering how he will play against GA, and maybe Bama or Clemson, I sure am just like everyone else is as well. If he &(^% the bed, then I guess we won't draft him, but if he lights it up, I for one wouldn't unless Darnold drops want any of the other prospects....

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On 12/13/2017 at 9:16 AM, JiF said:

NFL boxes: 6'5, athletic, big arm (although his shoulder needs to check out because he lost a lot of zip toward the end of the season), can push the ball down field and throw it on rope outside the hash marks, great downfield touch and can drop it in a bucket. An accurate pocket passer who actually does go through some progressions and scans the field.  High character, leader, Senior, improved stats each season. etc.

Yes, you do have to have someone to play QB despite what Big Mac and Todd Bowles think, it's a pretty important position.  The overhyping of QB's isn't new.  The over drafting of QB's isn't new.  This particular draft class is just unique.  Never have I seen such hype for "next year's class" to fizzle out so fast.  People are drooling over Baker Mayfield at #3 overall.  That's how far this class has fallen.

Not sure if you're leadership comment is sarcastic or not but yes, it is completely overrated.  Look at all the "leaders" the Jets have brought in and tell me about the results. 

I keep wondering why you call him IntercepitDarnold.  He threw 12 picks this season.  He's 57 and 21 in his career.  That's nothing.  Matt Ryan threw 19 his senior year 56 and 37 in his college career, Watson threw 17 his senior year, Jameis threw 18, Andrew Luck and Josh Rosen threw 10 (a whopping 2 less than Darnold).  Dan Marino is 3rd all time for INT's in college...he threw 69 picks, his Senior year he threw more picks than TD's.  IDK, seems like a silly name to me. 

We have one of them already named HACK, and could possibly draft another one in Allen.... 

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4 hours ago, JiF said:

Exactly. Good Football players >>>> great leaders.  If you do it on the field, you'll command respect and gain the confidence of the team.  Which matters more IMO.

I agree on that point Jif, but Im concerned Mayfield will do something off the field that impacts his (and the Jets) future success.

I hope we have a CS that can reign him in a bit so he can mature into something great for us. (if we get him)

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33 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Wait, A QB that has pocket presence, that can make most every throw, hits the receivers that are open, scrambles successfully when the pocket breaks down, can keep his eyes downfield is not someone you'd like to have ?  I get that OU has a great offense and that the Big12 doesn't play much defense, but that's not OU's fault for having a superior offense. Wait, TCU was supposed to have a great defense in the Big 12, how did those to games turn out for them when playing against OU. Listen, I'm not even an OU fan, but I watched him this year because of the fact the tank wasn't going the way it should have, and he has impressed the *%$ out of me. Some of the TD's he's thrown to the TE are great throws... Am I wondering how he will play against GA, and maybe Bama or Clemson, I sure am just like everyone else is as well. If he &(^% the bed, then I guess we won't draft him, but if he lights it up, I for one wouldn't unless Darnold drops want any of the other prospects....

You act as if Baker Mayfield is the first QB in college to do such amazing things on the Football field. Baker Mayfield's are a dime a dozen, especially in that conference.  There have literally been tons of players that fit that bill who didnt pan out at the next level.  Prior to Baker Mayfied, OU had a guy putting up similar video game numbers.  Threw for more yards.  Was more of a traditional NFL pocket passer.  6'5 big arm his name was Landry Jones, he was a 4th round pick.

Will Grier can do those same things that you're impressed with in Baker.  same with JT Barrett. Drew Lock, McKenzie Melton too...do you want them as your QB?  Are they first round picks?

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Psst....almost every "good football player" at the QB position is also a great leader of men who inspire their players with BOTH play and word.

QB's who are bad leaders are almost exclusively sh*tty QB's who fail/bust.

So we don’t know whether they’re a good leader until successful results and vice versa for bad leader? Sounds like this leadership stuff is preeeeettty legit.

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4 minutes ago, BUM-KNEE said:

I agree on that point Jif, but Im concerned Mayfield will do something off the field that impacts his (and the Jets) future success.

I hope we have a CS that can reign him in a bit so he can mature into something great for us. (if we get him)

Mayfield in NYC is concerning, to say the least. 

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7 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

So we don’t know whether they’re a good leader until successful results and vice versa for bad leader? Sounds like this leadership stuff is preeeeettty legit.

/facepalm

Of all the things I never thought Jets Fans would buy into, it was Jeff George'ism.

Wow.

Some days I think we get exactly the team we deserve.

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