Remember when BIGGG MACCC tried to get Semian?

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The bolded part is totally false.  No team ever takes a Qb thinking he is only backup material.  Even late rounders and UDFA teams think the guy will be able to possibly be a starter at some point in time. 

 

Quote

"We feel, ability-wise, he can definitely be a quality No. 2 (quarterback)," Maccagnan said, via ESPN.com. "The rest is kind of up to him."

 

 

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

All the more shows why our GM A) hedges his bets to avoid any expectation and B Is a sheer moron if he really meant that.

[bla bla bla]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The bolded part is totally false.  No team ever takes a Qb thinking he is only backup material.  Even late rounders and UDFA teams think the guy will be able to possibly be a starter at some point in time.  Teams like the Pats draft these guys to turn them into trade assets a few years later.  Backups QBs are all over the place and a dime a dozen.  No one drafts a guy with that though in their head.  And as for Petty, the Jets traded up to get him a spot or two.  You do not do that if your are drafting a back up.

Okay, fair point. The later you select a QB the lower the probability of that player ever becoming a starter. I don't think the Jets selected Petty with the intention of him starting the next decade. I think the hope was that he could potentially turn into that but I think most realistic fans wouldn't anticipate that 4th rounder to become more than a cheap backup.

22 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

As for the whole 'take a gamble' issue.  You take gambles on later picks, guys with character issues, guys with flaws in their game, guys who come from small schools perhaps.  You need to be drafting players who are going to be starters in the 1st few rounds.  The Jets zeroed in on this guy and overdrafted him.  As we have said before, the pick would not be blasted to smithereens as much as it has if it was at least to the level of a Clemens or even geno.  Guys that failed but at least were trending well in college and had a chance to play.  Hack is so awful he can't even come close to seeing the field.

I'm not going to argue that Hack is better than Geno or Clemens. I guess every player is a gamble but with Geno people thought he should have gone earlier, he was a value pick at that point. I really don't think Hack would have made it to the 5-7th rounds where you'd take a "high risk" gamble on a player. I'd say we absolutely reached on Hack but I don't believe it was an egregious pick, plenty of sources thought he'd go in rounds 2-3. FWIW here are just a handful of sources and where they thought Hack would be selected.

3rd Round: Walter Football

2nd - 3rd Round: NFL.com

1st - 2nd Round: Sporting News

2nd - 3rd Round: NFLDraftScout.com

3rd Round: Sports Illustrated

2nd - 3rd Round: NBC Sports

2nd Round: Todd McShay

2nd Round: Mel Kiper

Is there a player you would have taken at that pick instead?

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

All the more shows why our GM A) hedges his bets to avoid any expectation and B Is a sheer moron if he really meant that.

Agreed.  He doesn't look good either way.  Especially with hindsight as our benefit and the Hackenberg pick factored in. 

It's difficult to make any claim that he has a clue when it comes to QB's.  And it's not the only crucial position he either avoids or has no ability to evaluate. 

[bla bla bla]

37 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I agree with that whole post.  I would like to add to this portion.  Hack's biggest assets were his ability to pick up an offense and to run a pro-style offense.  Both of these things should have given him a certainly level of competence and ability to step in a be the QB, even if an inaccurate one.  Instead he has not only been too bad to play, he has not been good enough to be active.  That has led to the Jets carrying extra QBs on the roster that they obviously don't like. 

I don't think the intention was to start Hack right away. His mechanics were so god awful his last 2 years a PSU most fans thought he'd need to sit for 2 years just to work out the bugs in his game. It was clear after the 2016 preseason he was not ready for game action, the team believed that Hack would be signed off our practice squad if we dropped him down. He's basically the IR slot in a fantasy football league. Yes he's taking up a roster spot but I'm not sure that the 53rd best player is worth having over a young QB. If he's still this bad next year he'll be cut.

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Okay, fair point. The later you select a QB the lower the probability of that player ever becoming a starter. I don't think the Jets selected Petty with the intention of him starting the next decade. I think the hope was that he could potentially turn into that but I think most realistic fans wouldn't anticipate that 4th rounder to become more than a cheap backup.

I'm not going to argue that Hack is better than Geno or Clemens. I guess every player is a gamble but with Geno people thought he should have gone earlier, he was a value pick at that point. I really don't think Hack would have made it to the 5-7th rounds where you'd take a "high risk" gamble on a player. I'd say we absolutely reached on Hack but I don't believe it was an egregious pick, plenty of sources thought he'd go in rounds 2-3. FWIW here are just a handful of sources and where they thought Hack would be selected.

3rd Round: Walter Football

2nd - 3rd Round: NFL.com

1st - 2nd Round: Sporting News

2nd - 3rd Round: NFLDraftScout.com

3rd Round: Sports Illustrated

2nd - 3rd Round: NBC Sports

2nd Round: Todd McShay

2nd Round: Mel Kiper

Is there a player you would have taken at that pick instead?

It wasn't an egregious pick because Walter Football thought it was a reach. It was an egregious pick because Hackenberg was and is a terrible quarterback. The player I wanted instead was literally any other draft-eligible player left on the board.

[Beerfish]

Each year we do a 'who do you not want to draft' thread in the draft forum.  If I recall Hackenburg was  popular name on those lists.

[ZachEY]

On 11/16/2017 at 9:49 AM, LIJetsFan said:

Is drafting Hack 51st overall worse than drafting E J Manual 16th overall?  Will you whiners never stop.  It is what it is.  Mac is staying so get over yourselves and try to make constructive posts for a change.    

Because Hack is not the worst pick of all time, it is no cause for concern.

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I don't think the intention was to start Hack right away. His mechanics were so god awful his last 2 years a PSU most fans thought he'd need to sit for 2 years just to work out the bugs in his game. It was clear after the 2016 preseason he was not ready for game action, the team believed that Hack would be signed off our practice squad if we dropped him down. He's basically the IR slot in a fantasy football league. Yes he's taking up a roster spot but I'm not sure that the 53rd best player is worth having over a young QB. If he's still this bad next year he'll be cut.

Not starting and not dressing are two entirely different intentions.  I question whether they intended to have him sit like this from the start, but if he is this bad I also question whether it has been worth keeping him.  People that think EJ Manuel is just as bad have to believe that Terrance Brooks is better. 

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

Because Hack is not the worst pick of all time, it is no cause for concern.

Arguably.  Arguably.

[bla bla bla]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Not starting and not dressing are two entirely different intentions.  I question whether they intended to have him sit like this from the start, but if he is this bad I also question whether it has been worth keeping him. 

I think the plan was to not let him see the field at all last year. This year I think they wanted to see if he could win the starting job from McCown, if he couldn't then he's not worth playing this season. If teams blew through QBs in a game then I could see where I'd be concerned that he wasn't dressing but the likelihood of needing that 3rd QB is so small and the chances that player had any meaningful game-plan prep is so small that it's kind of a silly argument to have. I'm more upset that he didn't win the backup job than I am that he's not dressed. He's likely still on the roster cause we still owe him money much like why Forte and Skrine were not cut this past offseason. I don't believe EJ is a worse player than Hack.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I think the plan was to not let him see the field at all last year. This year I think they wanted to see if he could win the starting job from McCown, if he couldn't then he's not worth playing this season. If teams blew through QBs in a game then I could see where I'd be concerned that he wasn't dressing but the likelihood of needing that 3rd QB is so small and the chances that player had any meaningful game-plan prep is so small that it's kind of a silly argument to have. I'm more upset that he didn't win the backup job than I am that he's not dressed. He's likely still on the roster cause we still owe him money much like why Forte and Skrine were not cut this past offseason. I don't believe EJ is a worse player than Hack.

That's just it.  He didn't win the backup job.  That is what I am talking about.  This is a team with 2 backup QBs + Hackenberg.  He is not like Forte or Skrine.  They start.  I think he would be $1M in dead money.  They are paying more than that in dead money to Pryor. 

[bla bla bla]

50 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's just it.  He didn't win the backup job.  That is what I am talking about.  This is a team with 2 backup QBs + Hackenberg.  He is not like Forte or Skrine.  They start.  I think he would be $1M in dead money.  They are paying more than that in dead money to Pryor. 

The majority of the league (20 teams) carry 3 QBs so it isn't really outrageous to have him as the 3rd guy. Forte and Skrine the cap benefit did not outweigh what we needed to pay them so it made no sense to cut them, Pryor we were able to get something in return so I think that's why that was okay. The biggest issue I can see with Hack is he's taking up a roster spot, I do think we'd carry a 3rd QB regardless, but again arguing over who is our 3rd string QB seems silly.

[Fantasy Island]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:15 PM, billo83 said:

Worst pick ever? Not even close. How about the Ghost at #6 and Dbust at #4 that cost an extra 1st rounder?

They both played in regular season games.  Suckenberg is so bad that he can't make the field.  The funniest part is that a bunch of posters here bought in to that "Redshirt" nonsense.  Instead of cutting him and moving on, Mac is doubling down trying to save his rep.

[GATA]

Fire Mac and Bowles.

Nuke it all!


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[billo83]

3 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

They both played in regular season games.  Suckenberg is so bad that he can't make the field.  The funniest part is that a bunch of posters here bought in to that "Redshirt" nonsense.  Instead of cutting him and moving on, Mac is doubling down trying to save his rep.

The Ghost was a #6 pick and Drob was a #4 that cost another 1st round pick for the trade up. That cost much more than a second for Hack. The Ghost was invisible on the field so I can hardly say he made the field. Dbust set the team back quite a bit. Even if Hack never make the field he didn't cost the team as much as the other 2.