T0mShane Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The 0-16 Browns draft Sam Darnold and then ruin him, trading him for a fourth rounder in 2020! The 2020 New York Jets, having gone 6-10 behind their QB Drew Stanton, points and laughs! Hahahahaha, tanking Browns! We’ve got eight more wins than you do over that past three seasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Just now, T0mShane said: The 0-16 Browns draft Sam Darnold and then ruin him, trading him for a fourth rounder in 2020! The 2020 New York Jets, having gone 6-10 behind their QB Drew Stanton, points and laughs! Hahahahaha, tanking Browns! We’ve got eight more wins than you do over that past three seasons! Schadenfreude is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, T0mShane said: The 0-16 Browns draft Sam Darnold and then ruin him, trading him for a fourth rounder in 2020! The 2020 New York Jets, having gone 6-10 behind their QB Drew Stanton, points and laughs! Hahahahaha, tanking Browns! We’ve got eight more wins than you do over that past three seasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, adb280z said: The Royals made it work too. The core of that team: Hosmer, Moustakas, Gordon were all drafted before in the 1st 3 picks of the draft. But they were on the team for several years before t clicked. The Astros were right away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, kevinc855 said: All that young talent and picks have resulted in 1 win in 2 years is my point. It’s a terrible philosophy Translation: draft picks/raw talent doesn't remedy bad coaching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, dbatesman said: Guys, draft picks................are Bad You see, the problem that I have, as I look back at the last 10 Super Bowl champions, I do not see rosters that are littered with high round picks. Where is the guarantee in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Just now, Scott Dierking said: You see, the problem that I have, as I look back at the last 10 Super Bowl champions, I do not see rosters that are littered with high round picks. Where is the guarantee in all of this. That's the point. The only guarantee that many draft picks can give you is the ability to trade up or down and get more draft picks. Other than that, they are a null quantity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Just now, Scott Dierking said: You see, the problem that I have, as I look back at the last 10 Super Bowl champions, I do not see rosters that are littered with high round picks. Where is the guarantee in all of this. None of them used draft picks at all, actually. Free agency babby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, jetrider said: Translation: draft picks/raw talent doesn't remedy bad coaching I think it's the opposite. Talent hides coaching deficiencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 54 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Huh? Did you miss this line: They fielded a team with a $22 million payroll, by far the lowest in baseball, with a 34-year-old Erik Bedard the only player earning more than $1 million. I have seem many new owners limit spending immediately, as they get their bearings. As the article states, the former owner had propped the franchise up for a TV contract, which begat a sale of the team. That was when the minor league system was barren. That is not a plan around a tank, that is building well. There was not a conceived plan by the new org to strip the team and lose. They already had that. It is cute to think it was a conceived plan. Many others have done the same thing, and remain bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, dbatesman said: None of them used draft picks at all, actually. Free agency babby No, not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, JiF said: So because they're winless, they have no talent? Got it. That logic only applies when prosecuting Macc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 tom Brady was a 6 round pick. so there you have it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 All of this bullsh*t and the Pats and Steelers have been the two best teams in the AFC for damn near 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: But they were on the team for several years before t clicked. The Astros were right away Sometimes it takes a few years for it to all come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: tom Brady was a 6 round pick. so there you have it I will state it again, the teams that have won the last 10 SB's, do not have a history of consistently drafting at the top half of draft rounds. Coincidence? I don't know. But it sure seems that being in the first 10 picks of the draft have not made a great difference in defining the league hierarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, adb280z said: Sometimes it takes a few years for it to all come together. Ask the Cubs, It took 108 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Just now, adb280z said: Sometimes it takes a few years for it to all come together. True 2 minutes ago, Matt39 said: All of this bullsh*t and the Pats and Steelers have been the two best teams in the AFC for damn near 20 years. I think for the last 17 years, the AFC Super Bowl QB has either been Brady, Manning or Roethlisberger, with exceptions of Rich Gannon and Joe Flacco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: I think it's the opposite. Talent hides coaching deficiencies. It works both ways. Bowles needs a truckload of vet superstars delivered to his door and plug-n-play draft picks from every round. Anything less is a failure by Macc. Don't you read JetNation fan forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Matt39 said: All of this bullsh*t and the Pats and Steelers have been the two best teams in the AFC for damn near 20 years. Competent ownership>good QB>>>good HC>>>good GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: You see, the problem that I have, as I look back at the last 10 Super Bowl champions, I do not see rosters that are littered with high round picks. Where is the guarantee in all of this. I forget the exact numbers but the AFC has had only 3 QBs (Brady, Peyton and Ben) in the Superbowl something like 15 of the last 16 years (Flacco being the other). If that doesn't tell you the importance of the QB position, I don't know what would. It's not about a team being littered w/ high draft picks. It's about having a FQB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: I will state it again, the teams that have won the last 10 SB's, do not have a history of consistently drafting at the top half of draft rounds. Coincidence? I don't know. But it sure seems that being in the first 10 picks of the draft have not made a great difference in defining the league hierarchy. The last 10 SBs have been won by teams with top QBs. There was only 1 won by a team with a QB that won't make the HOF. More HOF QBs are found in the 1st and specifically the top of the 1st than elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 38 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said: Big deal. They were an abomination for 4 years and it worked out for them. There are plenty of examples where teams are bottom feeders for a decade and getting those high draft picks doesn't translate into a championship. Clearly there are no guarantees. But the NFL is all about the FQB. Maximizing your chance to draft one seems like a reasonable strategy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Just now, adb280z said: The last 10 SBs have been won by teams with top QBs. There was only 1 won by a team with a QB that won't make the HOF. More HOF QBs are found in the 1st and specifically the top of the 1st than elsewhere. This is a different concept than tanking. I can list a far greater majority of qbs that were high -end picks, that busted. Far greater than those that won SBs. There are no guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: This is a different concept than tanking. I can list a far greater majority of qbs that were high -end picks, that busted. Far greater than those that won SBs. There are no guarantees. So the Jets should just stick w/ the plan they've been going with for the past 45 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, jetrider said: It works both ways. Bowles needs a truckload of vet superstars delivered to his door and plug-n-play draft picks from every round. Anything less is a failure by Macc. Don't you read JetNation fan forums? What? Mac has assembled a talent deficient roster this year, maybe on purpose. Quick look around the league and you will see plenty of other coaches doing less with more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: I will state it again, the teams that have won the last 10 SB's, do not have a history of consistently drafting at the top half of draft rounds. Coincidence? I don't know. But it sure seems that being in the first 10 picks of the draft have not made a great difference in defining the league hierarchy. Boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hael Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The Browns have had some decent drafts in the past two years imo. They just have a completely gutted roster devoid of veterans, no qb and a lack of offense. basically what we would be if we had not taken Forte/McCown/Kearse etc It will take a few years but D’Arnold will turn that franchise around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: So the Jets should just stick w/ the plan they've been going with for the past 45 years? I am not saying that either. First, the management is not the same, so the plan is not a consistent one. Second, I do believe that there is some credibility to developing players you do have, and that having them play well and contributing is a healthy way to grow a team. I just have never seen a "tank plan" work in the NFL, and ask for an example of one that has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, jetrider said: That logic only applies when prosecuting Macc Absolutely. Talented players win games. Don’t understand your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: I am not saying that either. First, the management is not the same, so the plan is not a consistent one. Second, I do believe that there is some credibility to developing players you do have, and that having them play well and contributing is a health way to grow a team. I just have never seen a "tank plan" work in the NFL, and ask for an example of one that has. It's a legit question but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the late 80's Dallas Cowboys. They were a terrible team and then traded Herschel Walker for a ton of picks. They ended up winning 3 Superbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Teams with HOF QBs are good. Draft picks are bad. The Jets' future is bright. Jet. Up. Dilly. Dilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: This is a different concept than tanking. I can list a far greater majority of qbs that were high -end picks, that busted. Far greater than those that won SBs. There are no guarantees. No one said that there was. Considering that there's 1 SB winner every year and multiple QBs drafted in the 1st most years the list of busts will always be bigger than the successes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It's a legit question but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the late 80's Dallas Cowboys. They were a terrible team and then traded Herschel Walker for a ton of picks. They ended up winning 3 Superbowls. Fair. Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson inherited a team that was awful when they arrived. They made the best of it by taking advantage of the Vikings in a huge way, that will probably never be repeated. To say that Jimmy Johnson "wanted and planned" to be bad, would be a misnomer, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: I am not saying that either. First, the management is not the same, so the plan is not a consistent one. Second, I do believe that there is some credibility to developing players you do have, and that having them play well and contributing is a healthy way to grow a team. I just have never seen a "tank plan" work in the NFL, and ask for an example of one that has. The Colts drafted Manning #1 and Edgerrin James #4 and proceeded to have one under .500 season in the next 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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