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41 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Please.... why is that relevant?  He sticks because he is better than others.  I would assume the guy they cut to keep him on board would be a worse fear.

That is the argument for Kellen Clemens and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Vlad has been on 5 teams in 8 years.  I would have passed on him .

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Scouting, drafting, player development, the right system, the right pieces around them, are all a part of the equation for a QB. I have zero confidence we do any one of those things correctly. This notion that under Rex and Sporano, followed by Morningwood, or Bowles/Gailey would have had Wilson who he is today is not something I would bet money on.

Which speaks to the other issue with the Jets which is no consistency in the FO or coaching staff. It's hard to consistently draft and develop good players who fit the needs of the Head Coach and system when you change GM's and Coaching staff every three years. This also speaks to the point of losing Vilma, Abraham and a couple others since it can be necessary to get rid of good players if they don't fit into the new coaching staff's schemes. 

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Didn't want to hurt Sanchez's feelings. This franchise has a decade-running tradition through the last three front offices to where we hang on to lost causes at QB for way too long and/or refuse to ever draft or develop a safety net in case the guy they are counting on sucks. Sanchez, Petty, and now Hackenberg. In the time we have committed to those three jabronis about 10 other teams have found starters in places that we passed on them.

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26 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

That is the argument for Kellen Clemens and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Vlad has been on 5 teams in 8 years.  I would have passed on him .

I am not arguing that he was a good pick.  Just pointing out that the idea that he obviously didn't belong in the NFL is false.  It is pretty difficult to translate guys from schools like UMass to the NFL.

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2 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Not drafting Russell Wilson has nothing to do with the current front office, scouting department  or coaching staff. 

Many of the posts in this thread are embarrassingly incorrect, Warfish’s most of all. 

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46 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

Which speaks to the other issue with the Jets which is no consistency in the FO or coaching staff. It's hard to consistently draft and develop good players who fit the needs of the Head Coach and system when you change GM's and Coaching staff every three years. This also speaks to the point of losing Vilma, Abraham and a couple others since it can be necessary to get rid of good players if they don't fit into the new coaching staff's schemes. 

Losing those guys due to scheme was not an issue.  Abraham was tagged.  The issue is having cheap young talent under contract.  Having Abraham tagged is not different than a huge signing. They got 4 years out of Vilma and six out of Abraham.  The issue is not having enough cheap young guys to fill that slot once they are gone.

Mangold was great to have from 2006-2010 or so.  Once he is signed to a $55M contract what good is he doing?  They could have gone out and signed anybody and would have been better off just sitting on a cheaper guy (like Jonathan Goodwin who they also drafted and played until 2014) 

The worst thing to do with a draft pick is to have them do nothing for a few years while they "develop" and then let them walk.  James Farrior was awful for that.  Decent player, not used, becomes very good to great with the Steelers for no compensation. Ugh.

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25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Losing those guys due to scheme was not an issue.  Abraham was tagged.  The issue is having cheap young talent under contract.  Having Abraham tagged is not different than a huge signing. They got 4 years out of Vilma and six out of Abraham.  The issue is not having enough cheap young guys to fill that slot once they are gone.

Mangold was great to have from 2006-2010 or so.  Once he is signed to a $55M contract what good is he doing?  They could have gone out and signed anybody and would have been better off just sitting on a cheaper guy (like Jonathan Goodwin who they also drafted and played until 2014) 

The worst thing to do with a draft pick is to have them do nothing for a few years while they "develop" and then let them walk.  James Farrior was awful for that.  Decent player, not used, becomes very good to great with the Steelers for no compensation. Ugh.

This is precisely my point concerning Petty. Is Petty on track to be the next Tom  Brady, NO!!!!!

But could he be the type of dependable backup that quality teams require when their starter goes down?

The answer currently is maybe :( 

We just don’t know and what makes it more maddening is that teams this year and last asked to trade for Petty and the Jets declined which led me to believe that they valued Petty. Despite this you get statements  from Bowles like we already saw what Petty could do last year and thereby essentially dismissing Petty as a viable option. 

The point is clear; why are we keeping Petty if we don’t think he has the skill and ability to eventually be better than a historically poor 38 year old journman losing QB?

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47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Losing those guys due to scheme was not an issue.  Abraham was tagged.  The issue is having cheap young talent under contract.  Having Abraham tagged is not different than a huge signing. They got 4 years out of Vilma and six out of Abraham.  The issue is not having enough cheap young guys to fill that slot once they are gone.

Mangold was great to have from 2006-2010 or so.  Once he is signed to a $55M contract what good is he doing?  They could have gone out and signed anybody and would have been better off just sitting on a cheaper guy (like Jonathan Goodwin who they also drafted and played until 2014) 

The worst thing to do with a draft pick is to have them do nothing for a few years while they "develop" and then let them walk.  James Farrior was awful for that.  Decent player, not used, becomes very good to great with the Steelers for no compensation. Ugh.

Best pass rusher this franchise had since the 80’s we traded for a Center

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

C + cap space.  If you want to talk about positional value, that isn't where I would have gone.  They had Goodwin under contract.  

Tanny could have figured out a way to keep Abe.  We got rid of Abe because Mangina was an arrogant, inept d-bag who thought “culture” was more important than having good players

 

 

Sound familiar?

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way too much hindsight here.  yep the jets have missed.  want to look at watson? 10 other teams passed on him too. i agree he seemed to have those winning intangibles that can make him a good qb but something else made those teams pass.  as for the jets, i think they are being taken out of context.  by accounts bowles did like watson but it turned out that mac and bowles liked adams better.  and the jets already had their qb position staffed long before the draft.

at this point, i'm still hopeful that hack can play qb at the nfl level but i'm also going to keep my powder dry and make sure a top flight qb is brought in either by draft or free agency.

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24 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Tanny could have figured out a way to keep Abe.  We got rid of Abe because Mangina was an arrogant, inept d-bag who thought “culture” was more important than having good players

 

 

Sound familiar?

We got rid of Abe because he found a way to be 'injured' in every big game we ever had because he didn't want to risk actual injury before his big payday. Kudos to him for taking care of #1 and family, but I don't want that guy on my favorite team.

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20 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Tanny could have figured out a way to keep Abe.  We got rid of Abe because Mangina was an arrogant, inept d-bag who thought “culture” was more important than having good players

Sound familiar?

I am not interested in "figuring out a way to keep" players.  A pass rusher is the guy to do that for, but at the start of an administration Abraham isn't necessarily the guy you want as a team leader.  I hated/hate Mangini more than anybody, but that team was in need of a culture change.

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2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Didn't want to hurt Sanchez's feelings. This franchise has a decade-running tradition through the last three front offices to where we hang on to lost causes at QB for way too long and/or refuse to ever draft or develop a safety net in case the guy they are counting on sucks. Sanchez, Petty, and now Hackenberg. In the time we have committed to those three jabronis about 10 other teams have found starters in places that we passed on them.

The Jets 100% went out of their way to make sure there was no alternative to Sanchez so that they would not be tempted to pull him.  100 year old Mark Brunnel,. Tebow etc

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we are arguing about John Abraham now?  are we forgetting he was hurt most of the time, had the DUI, was completely unreliable and we turned the pick into a borderline HOF C that anchored our OL for the next decade?  Abe was a big time pass rusher when healthy and motivated, unfortunately that wasn't often w/ us. we also had another young DE and we weren't paying both.  Ellis was the better all around DE and everything worked out for all involved in that move.

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5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Jets 100% went out of their way to make sure there was no alternative to Sanchez so that they would not be tempted to pull him.  100 year old Mark Brunnel,. Tebow etc

yes b/c there were so many big time QBs available in FA at that time:rolleyes:  at the end the problem wasn't mark as much as it was not giving Mark any talent to play with.  when he had talent around him he succeeded here, when the weapons were Chaz Schilens, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates and company he failed. 

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25 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

We got rid of Abe because he found a way to be 'injured' in every big game we ever had because he didn't want to risk actual injury before his big payday. Kudos to him for taking care of #1 and family, but I don't want that guy on my favorite team.

Most people claim that he missed a playoff game with a hangover.  Then they stretch that to his serious injury in 2004 when the dipsh*t coach kept saying they expected him to play when he couldn't even go in the walk-through.  Here is the story.  I remember my Dad watching 30 seconds of the practice on the TV news seconds and saying - "he can't go."

https://www.newsday.com/sports/abraham-weighing-his-risk-vs-reward-1.618578

 

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21 minutes ago, King P said:

Not even close

I guess this guy didn't watch last nights game, lol. Wilson was a f*cking BEAST. Making plays all over the place. Dude was playing behind a sieve Oline, with backups coming in for injured starters like Oday Aboushi, lol! And some of the throws (not on the run) but full freaking sprints were lasers! Overrated? That guy is SPECIAL! Russell Wilson playing for the Jets would be a f*cking dream.

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it's also funny to me how Jet fans could bash Bradway nonstop the way they did then all of a sudden take his word about Russell Wilson. Jet fans still bashed Bradway when he wasn't GM, he was still a scapegoat when things didn't go right for some reason but now want to talk about Russell Wilson and While Wilson is a top notch QB what do we think he would have done w/ our talent in 2012/13/14? and the coaching we had on offense.  I can guarantee you he wouldn't be the version we see now and fans would be bashing Tannenbaum and Bradway for the pick.

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

yes b/c there were so many big time QBs available in FA at that time:rolleyes:  at the end the problem wasn't mark as much as it was not giving Mark any talent to play with.  when he had talent around him he succeeded here, when the weapons were Chaz Schilens, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates and company he failed. 

Give me a ******* break.  They dumped Drew Stanton because that was too much pressure for him and Tebow.  He failed with all different weapons.  As soon as he wasn't propped up by a top 10 D and top 10 running game he flopped.  Povero Mark Sanchez.

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5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

we are arguing about John Abraham now?  are we forgetting he was hurt most of the time, had the DUI, was completely unreliable and we turned the pick into a borderline HOF C that anchored our OL for the next decade?  Abe was a big time pass rusher when healthy and motivated, unfortunately that wasn't often w/ us. we also had another young DE and we weren't paying both.  Ellis was the better all around DE and everything worked out for all involved in that move.

John Abraham is the one pick your idiot coach got right when he was "picking the groceries."  Well, I guess Jason Ferguson too.

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Give me a ******* break.  They dumped Drew Stanton because that was too much pressure for him and Tebow.  He failed with all different weapons.  As soon as he wasn't propped up by a top 10 D and top 10 running game he flopped.  Povero Mark Sanchez.

that's nonsense, they released Stanton b/c that is what Stanton wanted.  They told Stanton they wouldn't bring in another QB and then they went and got Tebow.  Do you actually think a)Stanton is better than Sanchez and b)Stanton would have made a difference on that team w/ that talent?

our run game was always overrated in in years 1 and 2.  The D was a top D in rankings but far too often came up small in big spots and needed to be bailed out by the pass O.  he was good for a rookie in 2009, really good in 2010 then took a step back in 2011 before it all collapsed in 2012.  In 2011 we took away his favrote WR in Edwards and his most trusted WR in Cotchery and 3 of his top 5 weapons entering that season would be out of football in 2012.  In 2012 he had 2 weapons who both got hurt so his main weapons ended up being Stephen Hill, Chaz Schilens, Clyde Gates and Kerley.  That's a good group to try and win w/:lol:

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

John Abraham is the one pick your idiot coach got right when he was "picking the groceries."  Well, I guess Jason Ferguson too.

Al Groh picked Abe and when healthy/motivated he was a top pass rusher but that was rare for us and he wouldn't have been worth to us what we would have had to pay him.  It would have meant no more Ellis and no Mangold.  you think Abe was worth those 2 guys?  Ellis was the better all around DE anyway.

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13 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

yes b/c there were so many big time QBs available in FA at that time:rolleyes:  at the end the problem wasn't mark as much as it was not giving Mark any talent to play with.  when he had talent around him he succeeded here, when the weapons were Chaz Schilens, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates and company he failed. 

There was dead QBs out there better than who they brought in to back up.  Also kinda funny that a dumb team like the Redskins go their guy in RG3 and then drafted another guy who is now going to make 30 million dollars next year.  The jets did everything in the world to coddle Sanchez from day one and that as much as anything helped with his demise as a QB.

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