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Russell Wilson

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34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Oh dear!  The board I used to post on would bash Goodwin! 

Abraham had 47 ******* forced fumbles.  47!  He had 4 less sacks than Ellis AS A JET.  That is despite Elllis soldiering on for an extra hundred years with the team.  If you don't think an extra 34 forced fumbles and 60 sacks is worth mildly worse center play you deserve a team full of safeties, inside linebackers and interior linemen. 

Abe when healthy/motivated was an all pro caliber player.  It was too risky to pay him what he wanted off all his injuries and off field issues.  Again, we did just fine w/o him.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

No he wasn't and they weren't worth it.  It's funny, I remember on the board I used to post at would bash Goodwin all the time.  He went somewhere else and became a solid starter but the fans got what they wanted when he wasn't retained.

Abe was inconsistent here, had the DUI, had all the injuries.  It made no sense to give him a huge contract.  we made the right decision and it turned out very well for us.

Jonathon Goodwin wasn't good enough for the Jets but he was just fine winning a Super Bowl with the Saints as their starting center. But the Jets always do what the Jets do, overpay for a non premier position. 55 million dollar contract for Nick Mangold. He was good but he wasn't even Kevin Mawae good. Nick couldn't get out & pull like Mawae could. Plus Mangold just got fatter & fatter as his salary went up. Fans talked about his weight on here ad nauseum. 

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3 hours ago, BrickTamland said:

This is absurd.

How so?  The way Wilson is talked about, especially in this thread, is that he is among the elite of elites.  I'll ask you to tell me why should be considered that.

Russell Wilson's numbers are incredibly similar to Kirk Cousins when you account for the differences in attempts.  Yet hardly anyone considers Cousins legitimate, let alone an elite level QB.  Cousins has never played anywhere near on teams as talented as anyone of Wilson's Seahawk teams.

So what is absurd about it?  Being overrated doesn't mean he's not good.  The fact that he's considered elite while people who produce similar stats are considered after thoughts is the definition of overrated.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

I guess this guy didn't watch last nights game, lol. Wilson was a f*cking BEAST. Making plays all over the place. Dude was playing behind a sieve Oline, with backups coming in for injured starters like Oday Aboushi, lol! And some of the throws (not on the run) but full freaking sprints were lasers! Overrated? That guy is SPECIAL! Russell Wilson playing for the Jets would be a f*cking dream.

What the Hell are you talking about!!!!

We don’t need that kind of player here!!!

Why we have freakin Josh McCown and that seems just peachy keen for our coach and GM!!!

And no you can’t make it up.  

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9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If you projected the Russell Wilson draft situation onto this Jets team with Bowles and Maccagnan, Matt Flynn would still be the starting QB.

POTY

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7 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

While they certainly suck at talent acquisition, the supposed claims of keeping other great talent down because they are younger has little-to-no evidence to support it.  Can we think of a single player since Farrior who went on to have such great success elsewhere once leaving the Jets?  More often than not, when the Jets aren't playing their young guys, no one else wants to play them either.

John Riggins, not since Farrior, but we have been doing this a long time

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6 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

He is , in my view, good back up material. Like a TJ Yates.  Good presence but something seems not quite ready for the big time.

But he is a very good QB.

Thanks fur the reply...really like him, looks the part and those NC State boys always turn out decent because they actually play in a pro-style (or as close as it gets in college) offense. Has been a winner too....but then I liked Glennon coming out so who knows. I can see him having a Tannehill type rise by draft time.

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20 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Thanks fur the reply...really like him, looks the part and those NC State boys always turn out decent because they actually play in a pro-style (or as close as it gets in college) offense. Has been a winner too....but then I liked Glennon coming out so who knows. I can see him having a Tannehill type rise by draft time.

Interesting view...  I never liked Glennon. Tall and thin, didn’t look the part.  I like Finley  better.

im going to the game this Saturday..gonna wear my Cotchery jersey. NC State retired his number. 

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7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Russell Wilson is the most overrated QB of the last 10 years.

I like his game. He is a force. He may be a bit over rated but lets not forget he was an OCs brain fart away from having a second ring and anyway if the Jets did for some reason draft him any long term NYJ fan knows Russell Wilson NYJ would not be the same as Russell Wilson Seattle Seahawk.

 

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Years later we are still discussing every QB we haven't picked that made it? Russell Wilson is just one of MANY that we and countless other teams miss every year. Why must we always act like we are all alone when it comes to missing on QB picks? I don't see anyone cheering for all the losers we passed on over the years.

I get it, I get it.......until we get one we bitch, we bitch, we bitch..........but damn this is kind of like a DJ digging in the crates for an oldie but goodie. 

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10 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

ABSOLUTELY!  When a CPA in NC sees it, why cant the JETS. 2 examples

 

1- Saw Russel Wilson as a freshman at NC State. I knew he was special. I saw a little of this in Jacoby Brisset as well, not as much but I think he can be good as well.

2- Vlad Ducasse.  I looked at him, saw his ability and knew he was a bust.

 

 

Wasn't Tanny a CPA?  Sounds like the Jets hired the wrong CPA.

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12 hours ago, Jetster said:

This guy would have turned this franchise upside down. We all know the story that leaked from Florham park that Terry Bradway was pounding the table for this guy. I'd love to know who & why he was overruled. It doesn't change it but it might shine a light on the disfunction of this franchise & I believe the disconnect in the power structure is a huge issue. It's why Rex was allowed to draft John Connor or his sons FREIND from Clemson. With everything I'm reading about the reviews on Hackenberg when he was drafted, it's scaring me that Macc is another one of these guys trying to find a needle in a hay stack. GMs do this all the time, trying to be smarter than the average bear.

Thats how guys like Stephen Hill, with all of what? 11 catches in college gets drafted in the 2nd round. Or Vlad Ducasse in the 2nd & then we find out he can barely understand English, but he played for Umass? Other than Hack, I believe Macc has drafted pretty well but the Hack mistake has had more ramifications because he did make a mistake drafting Hackenberg, we ignored our future QB sitting right there for the picking in Deshaun Watson. It's like doubling down on his mistake so I do understand fans here who want him fired.

He wasn't.  He loved Wilson, but in something like the 4th round.  The story has gotten distorted over the years.  From what I've seen, passing on Deshaun Watson was the big mistake.  If a franchise QB went within 6 spots of your first round pick, then you and your scouts ****ed up big time.

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11 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

ABSOLUTELY!  When a CPA in NC sees it, why cant the JETS. 2 examples

 

1- Saw Russel Wilson as a freshman at NC State. I knew he was special. I saw a little of this in Jacoby Brisset as well, not as much but I think he can be good as well.

2- Vlad Ducasse.  I looked at him, saw his ability and knew he was a bust.

 

 

The story is that the Jets realized they made a mistake as soon as Ducasse's first training camp.  I'm not joking, either.

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49 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

The story is that the Jets realized they made a mistake as soon as Ducasse's first training camp.  I'm not joking, either.

That is so easy to believe.....

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4 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

How so?  The way Wilson is talked about, especially in this thread, is that he is among the elite of elites.  I'll ask you to tell me why should be considered that.

Russell Wilson's numbers are incredibly similar to Kirk Cousins when you account for the differences in attempts.  Yet hardly anyone considers Cousins legitimate, let alone an elite level QB.  Cousins has never played anywhere near on teams as talented as anyone of Wilson's Seahawk teams.

So what is absurd about it?  Being overrated doesn't mean he's not good.  The fact that he's considered elite while people who produce similar stats are considered after thoughts is the definition of overrated.

Not sure what level he’s at. I’d say right below Elite maybe. But not overrated at all. He just makes plays. There oline is constantly a mess and I wouldn’t say they have any huge weapons on offense. They had Lynch but I wouldn’t say their WRs are anything crazy. Never have been really since he’s been there. But it’s hard to judge when they've always had a top defense supporting the offense. 

I think he carry’s that team and what makes him special is what he does when a play breaks down. His escapibility and accuracy on the run is ridiculous. 

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5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

How so?  The way Wilson is talked about, especially in this thread, is that he is among the elite of elites.  I'll ask you to tell me why should be considered that.

Russell Wilson's numbers are incredibly similar to Kirk Cousins when you account for the differences in attempts.  Yet hardly anyone considers Cousins legitimate, let alone an elite level QB.  Cousins has never played anywhere near on teams as talented as anyone of Wilson's Seahawk teams.

So what is absurd about it?  Being overrated doesn't mean he's not good.  The fact that he's considered elite while people who produce similar stats are considered after thoughts is the definition of overrated.

I mean no disrespect:

It’s ok to be a hater. But you should realize that you are totally full of poop.

Wilson is a career 3:1 TD to int ratio (148:52) guy with a SB win and a SB appearance. Plus 15 rush td. I don’t know if that includes playoffs where he has killed it.

Cousins meanwhile has a career 2:1 (89 to 47) ratio.

Proof.

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14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If you projected the Russell Wilson draft situation onto this Jets team with Bowles and Maccagnan, Matt Flynn would still be the starting QB.

......And they would have turned Wilson into a slot wr and punt returner. 

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11 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Didn't want to hurt Sanchez's feelings. This franchise has a decade-running tradition through the last three front offices to where we hang on to lost causes at QB for way too long and/or refuse to ever draft or develop a safety net in case the guy they are counting on sucks. Sanchez, Petty, and now Hackenberg. In the time we have committed to those three jabronis about 10 other teams have found starters in places that we passed on them.

Point taken but petty was never drafted to be the next starting qb

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1 hour ago, BrickTamland said:

I mean no disrespect:

It’s ok to be a hater. But you should realize that you are totally full of poop.

Wilson is a career 3:1 TD to int ratio (148:52) guy with a SB win and a SB appearance. Plus 15 rush td. I don’t know if that includes playoffs where he has killed it.

Cousins meanwhile has a career 2:1 (89 to 47) ratio.

Proof.

You provide exactly one state, and that's your proof?  The fact that you bring up the SBs is precisely my point.  The Seahawk D and running game are much more responsible for those than Russell Wilson.

Wilson Career

64.4% Completion 7.9 YPA  99.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 17.9 Attemps 1 Int per 51 attempts.

Cousins

66.0% 7.8 YPA 95.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 21.3 attempts 1 Int per 41 attempts.

Yeah big difference there 🙄.  Not that they are similar in the running ability, but Cousins has 12 Rushing TDs in about 1.5 seasons less of playing time.  

I'll stand by my statement.  One of those guys played an some insanely good teams.  One guy has played with mostly marginal/bad teams.  One is considered elite by most people, one is basically considered an after thought and fluke.  Weird.

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7 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Interesting view...  I never liked Glennon. Tall and thin, didn’t look the part.  I like Finley  better.

im going to the game this Saturday..gonna wear my Cotchery jersey. NC State retired his number. 

Cotch....great player for us

i thought Glennon had a great deep ball and he got victimised a lot by drops his junior and senior seasons.

I think Finley goes in the 8-16 range when the draft rolls around.....right where we’ll be picking !! when you talk about looking the part I think he has it, like his ability in the short to intermediate as well as deep balls, he’s been productive, winning without being surrounded by Clemson or Alabama style talent(Chubb apart) and has started 2 or 3 seasons. Completes over 60%....he comes as close to the Parcells rules as anyone I think....we’ll see

enjoy the game

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7 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Interesting view...  I never liked Glennon. Tall and thin, didn’t look the part.  I like Finley  better.

im going to the game this Saturday..gonna wear my Cotchery jersey. NC State retired his number. 

Oh and one other thing...that Jaylen Samuels is some player ....this place would lose it’s shizzle big time if we drafted a fullback early but I think he’s worth it, the scheme/match-up possibilities with him are exciting

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9 hours ago, BrickTamland said:

I mean no disrespect:

It’s ok to be a hater. But you should realize that you are totally full of poop.

Wilson is a career 3:1 TD to int ratio (148:52) guy with a SB win and a SB appearance. Plus 15 rush td. I don’t know if that includes playoffs where he has killed it.

Cousins meanwhile has a career 2:1 (89 to 47) ratio.

Proof.

 

7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

You provide exactly one state, and that's your proof?  The fact that you bring up the SBs is precisely my point.  The Seahawk D and running game are much more responsible for those than Russell Wilson.

Wilson Career

64.4% Completion 7.9 YPA  99.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 17.9 Attemps 1 Int per 51 attempts.

Cousins

66.0% 7.8 YPA 95.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 21.3 attempts 1 Int per 41 attempts.

Yeah big difference there 🙄.  Not that they are similar in the running ability, but Cousins has 12 Rushing TDs in about 1.5 seasons less of playing time.  

I'll stand by my statement.  One of those guys played an some insanely good teams.  One guy has played with mostly marginal/bad teams.  One is considered elite by most people, one is basically considered an after thought and fluke.  Weird.

Whats it really matter...  they are both better than any QB we have drafted in the last 15 years, maybe 25 and THAT is what sucks.  

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5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

You provide exactly one state, and that's your proof?  The fact that you bring up the SBs is precisely my point.  The Seahawk D and running game are much more responsible for those than Russell Wilson.

Wilson Career

64.4% Completion 7.9 YPA  99.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 17.9 Attemps 1 Int per 51 attempts.

Cousins

66.0% 7.8 YPA 95.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 21.3 attempts 1 Int per 41 attempts.

Yeah big difference there 🙄.  Not that they are similar in the running ability, but Cousins has 12 Rushing TDs in about 1.5 seasons less of playing time.  

I'll stand by my statement.  One of those guys played an some insanely good teams.  One guy has played with mostly marginal/bad teams.  One is considered elite by most people, one is basically considered an after thought and fluke.  Weird.

Now do Ben Roethlisberger.

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14 hours ago, Jetster said:

Jonathon Goodwin wasn't good enough for the Jets but he was just fine winning a Super Bowl with the Saints as their starting center. But the Jets always do what the Jets do, overpay for a non premier position. 55 million dollar contract for Nick Mangold. He was good but he wasn't even Kevin Mawae good. Nick couldn't get out & pull like Mawae could. Plus Mangold just got fatter & fatter as his salary went up. Fans talked about his weight on here ad nauseum. 

Players develop at different rates, there was not a Jet fan alive that thought it was a mistake to not re-sign Goodwin.  He had a good career in NO, good for him.  The league is littered w/ players succeeding in new places after struggling w/ other teams.  Goodwin played 4 years here then didn't start in NO until; his 3rd season there but all you geniuses knew he'd make one pro bowl in his career in NO and now you would have preferred him over an all pro like Mangold.   Only Jet fans:lol:

I do think Mawae was better than Mangold but Mangold was still a top 2 C the majority of his career, are you really complaining about Mangold?

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5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

You provide exactly one state, and that's your proof?  The fact that you bring up the SBs is precisely my point.  The Seahawk D and running game are much more responsible for those than Russell Wilson.

Wilson Career

64.4% Completion 7.9 YPA  99.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 17.9 Attemps 1 Int per 51 attempts.

Cousins

66.0% 7.8 YPA 95.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 21.3 attempts 1 Int per 41 attempts.

Yeah big difference there 🙄.  Not that they are similar in the running ability, but Cousins has 12 Rushing TDs in about 1.5 seasons less of playing time.  

I'll stand by my statement.  One of those guys played an some insanely good teams.  One guy has played with mostly marginal/bad teams.  One is considered elite by most people, one is basically considered an after thought and fluke.  Weird.

it's about more than out of context stats, it's about making big plays at big moments.  Seattle took off when Wilson became their QB, he has done more w/ less than any QB not names Brady or Rodgers this decade.

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21 hours ago, redlichtie said:

What do you think of Finley?

Vlad is still in the league.  He sarted against the Jets this year.

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7 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

You provide exactly one state, and that's your proof?  The fact that you bring up the SBs is precisely my point.  The Seahawk D and running game are much more responsible for those than Russell Wilson.

Wilson Career

64.4% Completion 7.9 YPA  99.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 17.9 Attemps 1 Int per 51 attempts.

Cousins

66.0% 7.8 YPA 95.1 QB Rating 1 TD per 21.3 attempts 1 Int per 41 attempts.

Yeah big difference there 🙄.  Not that they are similar in the running ability, but Cousins has 12 Rushing TDs in about 1.5 seasons less of playing time.  

I'll stand by my statement.  One of those guys played an some insanely good teams.  One guy has played with mostly marginal/bad teams.  One is considered elite by most people, one is basically considered an after thought and fluke.  Weird.

No way.

It is really difficult for me to believe that you are being sincere.

First, Cousins is seen as a good player so this fluke/afterthought idea is incorrect with regard to him.

Second, the TD/int ratio sustained over a career of 2012-2017 IS the very most important stat for a QB. It’s not 6:2 over a three game span, it’s not 21:7 over a one year span. ITS 5.5 years worth of production at roughly 150:50. Come on.

Moreover, Russell KILLS in the playoffs. Going back to his first year, where he almost singlehandedly beat the Falcons. His career td:int stat in playoffs is 20:11, which is skewed by his one bad game where he was 1:4. He played in 12 playoff games from 2012-2016. Has not missed playoffs in his career. 

And who are the big time receivers who have allowed him to sustain these ridiculous numbers over the years and inflated his stats? Doug Baldwin? Kearse? He is only just starting to get real production from Graham who killed in NO. You must think that Marshawn secured all those TDs. Nope, Lynch had 7 receiving TDs while playing with Wilson. I guess Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas caught them all. Seriously who are the “insanely good” offensive players who carried him to insanely good stats? You want to play this card you gotta head over to Matt Ryan (whose stats came from  Tony Gonzalez, Roddy White, Julio Jones...)

I guess I need a baseline here for the “rating.” You must be hearing someone say that he is a lock top 2-3 guys in the league right now and one of the best ever. Because it’s not debatable that he is top 10 right now. It’s not debatable that he is top 5 right now. You want to put Rodgers and Brady ahead of him because of their longer careers with exceptional credentials, no problem. Maybe Brees. But who else? Ben with 2 sb? I’d disagree but ok, fine.

If you had to take a QB right now for the next ten years, you should be taking Wilson. I can understand people might say Wentz too. He also looks great and I wouldn’t argue with Wentz.

The fact is that Wilson was gifted a good defense and strong running game when he came into the league. Another fact is that he quickly became a prolific passer on that built-for-run team. And in the past few years it is Wilson, not defense or running game, that keeps that team scary. At under 6 feet, he plays fearless ball and has not sustained major injury. 

Your grudge against him does not equate to him being overrated.

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22 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

8 years in the NFL, multiple starts for several seasons.    

Which is not all that unusual an arc for a career NFL OG. There's an article by Brian Costello today in the Post about Brandon Moore going from a college DL to a practice squader to a Pro Bowl OG. Ducasse is   a servicable guard, but taking him in the 2nd round was a ridiculous  reach. 

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6 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Which is not all that unusual an arc for a career NFL OG. There's an article by Brian Costello today in the Post about Brandon Moore going from a college DL to a practice squader to a Pro Bowl OG. Ducasse is   a servicable guard, but taking him in the 2nd round was a ridiculous  reach AROUND.

Fixed. 😀

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22 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Russell Wilson is the most overrated QB of the last 10 years.

Wilson is not the MOST OVERRATED, the following start the list of most overrated.:

 

Joe Flacco

Eli Manning 

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