So when do Bowles & Macagnan get fired?

[Philc1]

19 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

The decision on Bowles should be based on a thorough evaluation of his full 3 year term. Not as the media states "Jets better this year than the extremely low bar I set so extend Bowles".

The problem is Bowles and Mac could easily be 9-23 after the Buffalo debacle and still get another season to screw things up

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Good, maybe that's why he has 6 Tds in the last 5 games. I hope teams are as clueless as you and continue to ignore Robby. 

Dickie Kotite discovered Wayne Chrebet that should have gotten him at least another 2 years amiright?

[Philc1]

I love the Robby Anderson  defense of this garbage regime.  One good undrafted player doesn’t make up for umpteen wasted high draft picks and bad contracts

[Warfish]

Depressing, but I don't see Bowles being fired.  He'll be back for at least 2018.  Another losing hopeless year.

Macc isn't going to be fired.  He'll be fine, but will screw up drafting a QB, leaving us with another vet castoff at QB next year, maybe even McCown again.

Because SOJ.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Depressing, but I don't see Bowles being fired.  He'll be back for at least 2018.  Another losing hopeless year.

Macc isn't going to be fired.  He'll be fine, but will screw up drafting a QB, leaving us with another vet castoff at QB next year, maybe even McCown again.

Because SOJ.

This actually makes the most sense anyway.

If you fire Bowles, and keep Mac, you're committing to 3 more years of Mac.  Either that, or you have to fire the coach he hires in one season, or fire him and keep the coach, which worked exceptionally with Rex/Idzik.

They have to fire both, or keep both.  Anything else puts them in a terrible spot next year.

[SenorGato]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

If he's going to lobby to go to the Pro Bowl, he must believe that he is becoming one or is one right now.

For years the Jets never had anyone that defenses fear. Now they have a guy

Watch out NFL 

——

I’m possibly OK with Bowles depending on who is available this offseason. GM guy should have been gone already 

[Philc1]

Fire both.  Wtf is the logic behind firing Toilet Bowlesbut not Wackagnan?  Is it Bowles’ fault Christina Hackentard is the worst player in the entire NFL

[Philc1]

Just now, SenorGato said:

Watch out NFL 

Is UnitedWhofans Rich Cimini or Ira from Staten Island?  That guy is in love with this trashy regime

[jack48]

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I know the media and 50% of Jets fans think they are doing this great job and should get extensions but we are are 9-19 since week 17 in 2015

 

Literally any other franchise would be looking to change the regime this January.  The Giants are and they are one season removed from 11-5 and a playoff appearance 

Nobody wants to put forth the proposition that the Jets continually fail at the end of games because their head coach is not doing a good enough job.  Laughable.  Last year the pattern was lack of effort.  This year it is lack of execution.  If a coach is responsible for two things, would not effort and execution be right up there?  How well do we practice?

[jets rooter]

don't be surprised.if the Johnson brothers .put the jets up for sale.that would be the best solution for the jets.

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, gEYno said:

Robby Anderson has never caught more than 6 passes a game this year.  Antonio Brown averages 40ypg more than Robby Anderson.  Antonio Brown has 400 yards more than Robby Anderson.  Antonio Brown catches 10% more passes thrown his way than Robby Anderson.  All of this is on just 6 more targets.

You really are not nearly knowledgeable enough to be as arrogant and condescending as you try to be.

I think comparing Robbie Anderson to Antonio Brown is absolutely ridiculous! Robby is a great piece to an offensive group, Brown, Hopkins, Julio, Green, OBJ, these guys are far & above all the WRs in this league. 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Fire both.  Wtf is the logic behind firing Toilet Bowlesbut not Wackagnan?  Is it Bowles’ fault Christina Hackentard is the worst player in the entire NFL

A lot going on here

[CrazyCarl40]

Probably never because WWIII is coming anyway. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Depressing, but I don't see Bowles being fired.  He'll be back for at least 2018.  Another losing hopeless year.

Macc isn't going to be fired.  He'll be fine, but will screw up drafting a QB, leaving us with another vet castoff at QB next year, maybe even McCown again.

Because SOJ.

You realize the problem with this is that it effectively gives Macc another 3 years not another 1 year, yes? Or if he has another weak draft + FA class are we to fire him and force the 2018 HC onto his replacement.

Keep both or fire both. Personally I think both have well deserved the latter, and a high draft pick and a good amount of cap space is when you look for a new GM not after the team's handed out another $200m worth of bad contracts nobody wants to inherit.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

This actually makes the most sense anyway.

If you fire Bowles, and keep Mac, you're committing to 3 more years of Mac.  Either that, or you have to fire the coach he hires in one season, or fire him and keep the coach, which worked exceptionally with Rex/Idzik.

They have to fire both, or keep both.  Anything else puts them in a terrible spot next year.

 

 

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You realize the problem with this is that it effectively gives Macc another 3 years not another 1 year, yes? Or if he has another weak draft + FA class are we to fire him and force the 2018 HC onto his replacement.

Keep both or fire both. Personally I think both have well deserved the latter, and a high draft pick and a good amount of cap space is when you look for a new GM not after the team's handed out another $200m worth of bad contracts nobody wants to inherit.

didn't see your post before mine. lol

Holy crap. You have the other half of the amulet I found. 

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, Bugg said:

Think that's about right. Whether he's a flash in the pan like Victor Cruz or a solid long term pro like Wayne Chrebet, we'll see. Have heard other teams are looking to bowl him over with a  long term deal, but who knows if that's from  Anderson's agent or idiot NY reporters  or reality. 

That sounds like his agent to me. He's a solid player, but not much more than that.

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

A lot going on here

I'm workshopping Christina Hackuilera.  Your thoughts?

[UnitedWhofans]

BTW, it looks like now there may be a chance McAdoo comes back for another year.

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

No you will be making excuses while he gives Claiborne $75 million, McClown $50 million and drafts a CB over Lamar Jackson

Oh stop.  They had to spend that money.  Don't you remember?

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Fire both.  Wtf is the logic behind firing Toilet Bowlesbut not Wackagnan?  Is it Bowles’ fault Christina Hackentard is the worst player in the entire NFL

Whoa

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

A lot going on here

Tell me about it.  I only quoted it so that I could try to break it all down later.

33 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

That sounds like his agent to me. He's a solid player, but not much more than that.

I am all aboard the Robby Anderson train.  It is offense.  If a guy can do one thing so well that he can do it on this garbage offense with this garbage QB, I think he has real value and can do some real damage when either a) there are some other options to take the pressure off and/or he develops some other options.  I actually think he is fairly willing over the middle and on slants and he is solid deep and on comebacks.  He is still a bit thin and weak, but improving.  That doesn't mean he is Antonio Brown.  

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I'm workshopping Christina Hackuilera.  Your thoughts?

[joewilly12]

Mike Maccgnan remains 

Todd Bowles gets fired as soon as the season ends, that Monday. 

[jack48]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You realize the problem with this is that it effectively gives Macc another 3 years not another 1 year, yes? Or if he has another weak draft + FA class are we to fire him and force the 2018 HC onto his replacement.

Keep both or fire both. Personally I think both have well deserved the latter, and a high draft pick and a good amount of cap space is when you look for a new GM not after the team's handed out another $200m worth of bad contracts nobody wants to inherit.

Agreed.  To me, Bowles has not shown any real facility for game management, and he is the final decision maker.  As for Macc, nobody should drink that much coffee.

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So I can totally suck at my job if I’m there for less than 5 years?  Cool

Which he hasn't.

This all or nothing thinking is.....well, it just is.

 

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, gEYno said:

The "needs to be great from day one" is a fictitious narrative you're creating because you can't debate in reality.

Funny, because it sure seems to be true.

Has Mac been perfect?  Far from it.  But he has not been as bad as many make him out to be, just like he is not as good as some make him out to be.

Again, would Oakland look as good as they do if Mackenzie gets fired after year two (which was talked about on Raiders boards)?

I am in full agreement that Mac has struck out finding a QB.  But I personally do not think a position of that magnitude can be given up on after three years.  If you take a look at any three consecutive drafts of Bill Belichick, he could be fired by our standards talked about here.  He lucks into one late round pick, and now he is a genius.  The reality is, he is somewhere in between as far as a GM.

We would all love a John Schneider or a Ted Thompson, but the reality is for most teams GM's don't build winners right out of the gate.

I still believe if we keep replacing our GM every few years, anyone of quality come here.  Everybody skips over the help wanted section of businesses that are always hiring for the same positions.  I would believe the same would be true with one of only 30 jobs in the world, unless Woody is willing to break the bank to bring a quality guy in.  Given his penchant for bringing in rookie coaches and GM's, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keep both or fire both. Personally I think both have well deserved the latter, and a high draft pick and a good amount of cap space is when you look for a new GM not after the team's handed out another $200m worth of bad contracts nobody wants to inherit.

While I disagree in firing Mac yet, I do think this logic makes sense.  Clean sweep, with ONE caveat: You hire the GM FIRST this time, and let him actually pick his coach.  You know, the way it should be done.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

While I disagree in firing Mac yet, I do think this logic makes sense.  Clean sweep, with ONE caveat: You hire the GM FIRST this time, and let him actually pick his coach.  You know, the way it should be done.

The thing that makes the least amount of sense, at this point in time, is firing Bowles and keeping Macc. The way things look as we enter Dec 2017, neither has earned another 3 years.

I think the job would actually be somewhat attractive right now, if there was a competent enough GM career-suicidal enough to want to come here (and if he had the persuasive skills to get the next big thing HC to work for him): back to back awful seasons to remove pressure of living up to your predecessor (okay, predecessors); you get to pick your own players at the most important/most high profile positions because said predecessor left gaping holes at all of them; and there's a good amount of cap space to work with. 

[JetsFanatic]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I know the media and 50% of Jets fans think they are doing this great job and should get extensions but we are are 9-19 since week 17 in 2015

 

Literally any other franchise would be looking to change the regime this January.  The Giants are and they are one season removed from 11-5 and a playoff appearance 

They will fire Bowles when he benches Eli for Geno Smith.

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Funny, because it sure seems to be true.

Has Mac been perfect?  Far from it.  But he has not been as bad as many make him out to be, just like he is not as good as some make him out to be.

Again, would Oakland look as good as they do if Mackenzie gets fired after year two (which was talked about on Raiders boards)?

I am in full agreement that Mac has struck out finding a QB.  But I personally do not think a position of that magnitude can be given up on after three years.  If you take a look at any three consecutive drafts of Bill Belichick, he could be fired by our standards talked about here.  He lucks into one late round pick, and now he is a genius.  The reality is, he is somewhere in between as far as a GM.

We would all love a John Schneider or a Ted Thompson, but the reality is for most teams GM's don't build winners right out of the gate.

I still believe if we keep replacing our GM every few years, anyone of quality come here.  Everybody skips over the help wanted section of businesses that are always hiring for the same positions.  I would believe the same would be true with one of only 30 jobs in the world, unless Woody is willing to break the bank to bring a quality guy in.  Given his penchant for bringing in rookie coaches and GM's, I wouldn't hold my breath.

If it seems true to you, maybe you're struggling to understand space-time?  I don't know.

Because, today isn't day 1.  Today is well past the halfway point of year 3.  No one was calling for him to be fired day 1, and no one was calling for him to be fired after year 1, even if some felt that the moves he made were not in the best interest of the long term future of the team, which, most people defending him now actually agree with.  They just blame it on Woody, despite not actually having any evidence to do so.

No one is blaming it all on the QB situation either.  The issue is that there's also no pass-rusher, there's no elite playmakers, the offensive line is 2nd worst in the league by a lot of metrics, and the defense, which is where all the investment has gone, is not very good either.  The hopes of this team is that two, thus far, average safeties turn out to be elite, and that a one route WR turns into Antonio Brown.

As for him not being as bad as people are making him out to be.  People critical of him say that he hasn't brought in a viable option at QB, no passrusher, no offensive line, no offensive playmaker, and overall the team is bad right now.  Which of these points do you contest?  Or, do you just think that after 3 years, it's okay to have this many holes, with this little promising young talent, and to have close to the same bad record you had 3 years ago?

[Charlie Brown]

8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

3 years into a regime and still no commitment to a young QB. When was the last time this happened?

I was wondering is it possible that the QBs are the waters edge?

What I mean is it possible that Bowles and Mac have a different views on the QBs?  Maybe Mac thinks that they are good and Bowles doesn't it is as simple as that.....

Could make for a interesting off season...

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, jack48 said:

Nobody wants to put forth the proposition that the Jets continually fail at the end of games because their head coach is not doing a good enough job.  Laughable.  Last year the pattern was lack of effort.  This year it is lack of execution.  If a coach is responsible for two things, would not effort and execution be right up there?  How well do we practice?

Bowles is horrible but so is that idiot GM

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, jets rooter said:

don't be surprised.if the Johnson brothers .put the jets up for sale.that would be the best solution for the jets.

Unfortunately that’s not happening.  Buying The jets was literally the only good business decision Woody ever made on his own 

[Philc1]

4 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Which he hasn't

 

9-19 since week 17 of 2015 and if we lose out your precious Macagnan is 9-23 as a GM in that span.  He blows so keep defending him

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

I was wondering is it possible that the QBs are the waters edge?

What I mean is it possible that Bowles and Mac have a different views on the QBs?  Maybe Mac thinks that they are good and Bowles doesn't it is as simple as that.....

Could make for a interesting off season...

No I think there was a consensus when Petty couldn’t outplay 40 year old McCown in TC and Hackenberg hit a reporter in the head while trying to throw a drag route

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, gEYno said:

If it seems true to you, maybe you're struggling to understand space-time?  I don't know.

Because, today isn't day 1.  Today is well past the halfway point of year 3.  No one was calling for him to be fired day 1, and no one was calling for him to be fired after year 1, even if some felt that the moves he made were not in the best interest of the long term future of the team, which, most people defending him now actually agree with.  They just blame it on Woody, despite not actually having any evidence to do so.

No one is blaming it all on the QB situation either.  The issue is that there's also no pass-rusher, there's no elite playmakers, the offensive line is 2nd worst in the league by a lot of metrics, and the defense, which is where all the investment has gone, is not very good either.  The hopes of this team is that two, thus far, average safeties turn out to be elite, and that a one route WR turns into Antonio Brown.

As for him not being as bad as people are making him out to be.  People critical of him say that he hasn't brought in a viable option at QB, no passrusher, no offensive line, no offensive playmaker, and overall the team is bad right now.  Which of these points do you contest?  Or, do you just think that after 3 years, it's okay to have this many holes, with this little promising young talent, and to have close to the same bad record you had 3 years ago?

No point in engaging.  Let me just save the time.  Mac sucks, lets fire him.

 

[CanadaSteve]

44 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

9-19 since week 17 of 2015 and if we lose out your precious Macagnan is 9-23 as a GM in that span.  He blows so keep defending him

Mac Sucks!

Fire him.

There.  Now you don't have to.....

[CanadaSteve]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The thing that makes the least amount of sense, at this point in time, is firing Bowles and keeping Macc. The way things look as we enter Dec 2017, neither has earned another 3 years.

I think the job would actually be somewhat attractive right now, if there was a competent enough GM career-suicidal enough to want to come here (and if he had the persuasive skills to get the next big thing HC to work for him): back to back awful seasons to remove pressure of living up to your predecessor (okay, predecessors); you get to pick your own players at the most important/most high profile positions because said predecessor left gaping holes at all of them; and there's a good amount of cap space to work with. 

Again though, who will come here?  Lets say for sh*ts and giggles, John Schneider's contract was up with Seattle.  Would he REALLY want to come here, no matter the money thrown at him? Sure, lots of cap space, but what if the problem is Woody sticking his nose in all along.  A first-time GM might not care, or is willing to put up with a meddling owner.  I can't see guys like Schneider, Thompson, Bellichick, any of them wanting to run a franchise like this if Woody is in fact causing some of the issues.

The key to any of this is IF Mac goes next year (which I don't think he will), is Woody or Chris or whichever Johnson is guiding the ship, will they let the GM hire HIS guy to coach the team and get the players they want?  I would have no problem NOT taking a QB next year if a) They drafted/signed players to build a top-notch O-line first b.  Went out and found a bona-fide #1 receiver, and then went out and found a bona-fide pass-rusher. 

I like some of the players Mac has drafted.  I just don't like the way it has been done.  Maybe I am too old school.  Build trenches, get a guy to get sacks, get a guy who can catch, get a guy who can throw the ball.  After that, you start filling in the pieces.  Without all that, great RB's and TE's and Safeties will be wasted, because you can't win without a QB, people to keep said QB upright, and a guy who hunts QB's for a living.