Eli? It's Sanchez The Scapegoat You Should Be Outraged About You Stupid Fools

[Warfish]

Just now, nyjunc said:

it doesn't matter what other teams did.

Sure it does.  If you're going to claim Sanchez was a winner only screwed by the Jets mismanagement and lack of talent, you can't ignore his career since leaving the Jets, or his time on teams with talent. 

Just now, nyjunc said:

He was here 4 years and had ONE losing season(where no QB could have succeeded w/ the talent we had).

Yes, he was carried by the very talented team around him his first two (AFCCG) years, and he played poor to average in those regular seasons.  To his credit, he elevated his game quite a bit in the postseason.  After the team was no longer elite on D and on O around him, his poor play was exposed and dragged the less talented team around him down to loserville.  

Just now, nyjunc said:

  If the Giants don't go on to win that SB in 2007 there's no doubt Eli would have been gone w/in a couple of years just like if we win it in 2009 or 2010 there's no way Mark would have been gone but Eli's D/STs stepped up and ours did not. 

So you do then think Eli and Mark are equal talents, and only mark's misfortune of playing in NY led to their different career paths.

Just now, nyjunc said:

We won 4 playoff games w/ Mark and reached 2 title games.  The 4 playoff wins are the same # we had from 1983-2008,2013-current. the 2 title games equals what we had from, 1970-2008, 2013-current. That wasn't an accident

Quite right, it was the combination of an elite Top 5 Defense and a Top 5 O-line/Running Game.  

Just now, nyjunc said:

....but we could win with him.....

We could, with an elite Defense and an Elite Running Game.  Most QB's don;t have both of those and many don't have either.  A Franchise QB is supposed to reduce the need for having those two things.  Did Sanchez ever, in his career, overcome the talent around him and make them better?  No.  At every stage he was made to look better by the talent that supported him, or look poor when the talent around him was not elite.

Just now, nyjunc said:

and that is what matters

Actually, nothing about Sanchez "matters" now. 

What matters is our future, not a past under a different GM, different Coach, different O-Co and with an entirely different team.  

Just now, nyjunc said:

but Jet fans would prefer losing w/ Ken O'Brien or Brett favre rather than winning w/ Sanchez.

Is winning with Sanchez an option today?

I prefer to think about who our QB will be in 2018.  It's odd to me that we have as many folks as we do re-litigating seasons now long since over.

[varjet]

I think this is real point:

• There is a shortage of quality starting QBs in the NFL
• Look who is starting week 13.
• I think it is easier, using traditional BPA evaluation and drafting, to build a solid defense, OL and running game.
• So, if finding a true franchise QB requires a bit of luck, sometimes the fortitude to tank, or nerve and confidence to trade a boatload of picks, and the Jets have not had any of these three and are unlikely to, what is wrong with building that defense and running game and then finding a QB who can administer the game and win?
• Yes, I know that is not the most likely to win a Super Bowl, but it seems like a good way to at least try and be competitive, and it HAS worked to make and win a Super Bowl.

It is just hard to fault the approach used to get to 2 AFCCGs.  After that, knuckleheadedness on all sides basically caused a good thing to unravel.

And so we start again.

[Paradis]

Late to the party -- but shouldn't this diatribe be driving more towards tenuous team management, then specifically the fallen of yore? 

The resume of our incompetent ownership/management has been eclipsed only be the likes of CLE in recent years. Poor drafting, poor roster management, poor coaching hires. etc... The tragic erosion of Mark Sanchez is a function of our owner and management. You don't go after mid-level players in an under-performing company. Every conversation about our past and present failures should be wholly focused on GMs and Woody.  

[SAR I]

12 hours ago, SenorGato said:

He dragged those otherwise pretty badass teams down. Passing the ball was the big flaw on those teams, largely because he sucked and sucks at it. 

4 playoff wins in 2 seasons.  On the road. 

5 epic 4th quarter comebacks. In the same season.

Led streak of 16 wins in 20 contests.  Best run in team history.

Franchise record holder for postseason wins, touchdowns, and QBR.

9-7, 11-5, 8-5 including playoffs is 32-21 during first 3 seasons thru December 2011.

Boy, did he suck.  We're so lucky that we did not invest more in him and instead turned the reins over to Geno Smith, Tim Tebow, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, and Josh McCown these past 5 years.  We are so much better off so many winning seasons.  So many playoff appearances.  So many playoff victories.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

isn't it funny how Sanchez helped us win 4 playoff games and make 2 title games which are franchise records, he wouldn't have a losing season until his 4th season and we booted him for Geno Smith.  Eli has led the Giants to missing the playoffs 7 of 9 years and he is above benching.  You have to laugh the unintentional comedy.

Right on.

From 2013-2015, Matt Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 and ended the next season 2-7. 

Boy, how stupid are the Falcons for keeping the QB who once showed such promise and firing their head coach and OC.  Fools.  

SAR I

 

[SenorGato]

Mark Sanchez was a horrendous QB and is probably the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise. I cannot understand how this can even be up for discussion. He was far and away the weakest link on those 2009 and 2010 teams and never even an average NFL passer, which is probably all those teams needed. That they went so far with that guy at the most important position is more a testament to how badass prime Revis, (*solid gap*) the OL, and ( *huge gap*) Bart Scott and the rest of the D was. 

 

[Jetsplayer21]

23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Right on.

From 2013-2015, Matt Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 and ended the next season 2-7. 

Boy, how stupid are the Falcons for keeping the QB who once showed such promise and firing their head coach and OC.  Fools.  

SAR I

 

He has been a career 3rd stringer since leaving the jets. Ohh it’s all the jets fault right ? ? Bottom line jets carried him with a elite D and strong vet leadership on O. Rex Ryan had to Write simple High school check downs in crayon on marks wrist band for C sake. The team was much worse shape in 13 when geno somehow help them stay at to 8-8. If Sanchez was any good he would still be a starting qb. He is not even a #2. Time to take down her #6 posters. 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

He has been a career 3rd stringer since leaving the jets. Ohh it’s all the jets fault right ? ? Bottom line jets carried him with a elite D and strong vet leadership on O. Rex Ryan had to Write simple High school check downs in crayon on marks wrist band for C sake. The team was much worse shape in 13 when geno somehow help them stay at to 8-8. If Sanchez was any good he would still be a starting qb. He is not even a #2. Time to take down her #6 posters. 

Shhh. The adults are talking. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Mark Sanchez was a horrendous QB and is probably the worst thing to ever happen to this franchise. I cannot understand how this can even be up for discussion. He was far and away the weakest link on those 2009 and 2010 teams and never even an average NFL passer, which is probably all those teams needed. That they went so far with that guy at the most important position is more a testament to how badass prime Revis, (*solid gap*) the OL, and ( *huge gap*) Bart Scott and the rest of the D was. 

 

Like the 5 games in 2010 where the D couldn’t hold a lead in the 4th quarter and only Mark Sanchez’ heroics turned a 6-10 season into 11-5?

Some of us watched the games. You should try it. 

SAR I

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

4 playoff wins in 2 seasons.  On the road. 

0 playoff appearances in the 6 seasons since then.

Quote

5 epic 4th quarter comebacks. In the same season.

0 epic 4th quarter comebacks in the six seasons since then.

Quote

Led streak of 16 wins in 20 contests.  Best run in team history.

10-18 as a starter over the six seasons since then.

Career 37-35 record.

Quote

Franchise record holder for postseason wins, touchdowns, and QBR.

Holds no positive records, for us or anyone, in regular season performance.

4th all-time for Jets Interceptions (69).
3rd all-time for Jets in Fumbles (43).
4th all-time for Jets in being Sacked (126).
Career 55.1% completion percentage in the "Easy to QB" Era. About equal to Pat Ryan.
Threw more than 20 TD's once in his career.  Career 1-1 TD-to-INT ratio (86/86).

Quote

9-7, 11-5, 8-5 including playoffs is 32-21 during first 3 seasons thru December 2011.

10-18 as a QB since then.

Quote

Boy, did he suck.

His most enduring legacy.

Quote

We're so lucky that we did not invest more in him and instead turned the reins over to Geno Smith, Tim Tebow, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, and Josh McCown these past 5 years.  We are so much better off so many winning seasons.  So many playoff appearances.  So many playoff victories.

SAR I

Unless you have evidence we'd have been better, our failures since then are not evidence of Sanchez's greatness, only evidence of our own ineptitude.

[Il Mostro]

The team reached two Jets-equivalent "Super Bowls" despite Sanchez, not because of him.  It's that friggin' simple.

[HighPitch]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

4 playoff wins in 2 seasons.  On the road. 

5 epic 4th quarter comebacks. In the same season.

Led streak of 16 wins in 20 contests.  Best run in team history.

Franchise record holder for postseason wins, touchdowns, and QBR.

9-7, 11-5, 8-5 including playoffs is 32-21 during first 3 seasons thru December 2011.

Boy, did he suck.  We're so lucky that we did not invest more in him and instead turned the reins over to Geno Smith, Tim Tebow, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, and Josh McCown these past 5 years.  We are so much better off so many winning seasons.  So many playoff appearances.  So many playoff victories.

SAR I

Ill agree that sanchez was far better than any of the ones you mentioned. 

But thats not saying much. 

Ill also agree the stas cant be ignored. But he was on a good team and if he was the real deal he would have excelled elsewhere. 

Luck? 

[Jetsplayer21]

[SAR I]

32 minutes ago, Warfish said:

0 playoff appearances in the 6 seasons since then.

0 epic 4th quarter comebacks in the six seasons since then.

10-18 as a starter over the six seasons since then.

Career 37-35 record.

Holds no positive records, for us or anyone, in regular season performance.

4th all-time for Jets Interceptions (69).
3rd all-time for Jets in Fumbles (43).
4th all-time for Jets in being Sacked (126).
Career 55.1% completion percentage in the "Easy to QB" Era. About equal to Pat Ryan.
Threw more than 20 TD's once in his career.  Career 1-1 TD-to-INT ratio (86/86).

10-18 as a QB since then.

His most enduring legacy.

Unless you have evidence we'd have been better, our failures since then are not evidence of Sanchez's greatness, only evidence of our own ineptitude.

Mean.  

SAR I

[HighPitch]

Lol. 

The thing here is sanchez fell off the face of the earth post jetdom. 

I mean, total suck. That just cant be ignored

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

4 playoff wins in 2 seasons.  On the road. 

5 epic 4th quarter comebacks. In the same season.

Led streak of 16 wins in 20 contests.  Best run in team history.

Franchise record holder for postseason wins, touchdowns, and QBR.

9-7, 11-5, 8-5 including playoffs is 32-21 during first 3 seasons thru December 2011.

Boy, did he suck.  We're so lucky that we did not invest more in him and instead turned the reins over to Geno Smith, Tim Tebow, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, and Josh McCown these past 5 years.  We are so much better off so many winning seasons.  So many playoff appearances.  So many playoff victories.

SAR I

You just can't help yourself, can you!

8 pages and counting   

What is scary is one wonders what would have happened if the Jets had doubled down on offense instead of saying "Sanchez make CFL players better," when Tom Brady couldn't have made Chaz into a quality WR.....

The truth is an investment in offense then might have afforded us a few more playoff appearances with the "flawed" Sanchez instead of saying we hope that McCown isn't our QB in 2018...

Anyway carry on.....

[SAR I]

17 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

You just can't help yourself, can you!

The truth is an investment in offense then might have afforded us a few more playoff appearances with the "flawed" Sanchez instead of saying we hope that McCown isn't our QB in 2018...

Anyway carry on.....

And that's it, really.

How can anyone look at the past 5 years and say that not giving Sanchez a second chance was the better choice?  I mean, if you could do it all over again, turn back the hands of time and take yourself back to 2012, you wouldn't rather see the Jets get rid of Rex Ryan and keep Mike Tannenbaum and Mark Sanchez?  You wouldn't have wanted to see what might have happened with an offensive-minded head coach, a real NFL caliber offensive coordinator, and Tanny under orders to focus on the offense?

Considering the alternative, how could you not?

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Lol. 

The thing here is sanchez fell off the face of the earth post jetdom. 

I mean, total suck. That just cant be ignored

It can't be ignored, but it has to be at least considered that the mind-f-ck from the Jets combined with the throwing arm injury and a journeyman's uncertainty/inconsistency that it makes complete sense that Mark Sanchez would never be the same again.  The NFL is filled with examples of quarterbacks who looked awful but once in the right circumstances flourished, makes complete sense that the opposite is true as well.  What Mark is now is inconsequential.  What he might have turned into in the right circumstances in a city he'd had success in but with proper development is what we'll never know and what should haunt us all.  We know how the Tebow>Geno>Vick>Fitzpatrick>Petty>Hackenberg>McCown progression went.  Tell me that sticking with Sanchez wasn't the better choice 5 years ago.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Il Mostro said:

The team reached two Jets-equivalent "Super Bowls" despite Sanchez, not because of him.  It's that friggin' simple.

Yeah, because NFL history is littered with examples of 22 year old quarterbacks who get "carried" to back to back AFC Championship Games.  I mean, the quarterback position is so insignificant your grandmother could do it.

SAR I

[SenorGato]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Like the 5 games in 2010 where the D couldn’t hold a lead in the 4th quarter and only Mark Sanchez’ heroics turned a 6-10 season into 11-5?

Some of us watched the games. You should try it. 

SAR I

I am honestly not sure if you actually buy this nonsense. Even for the Jets Mark Sanchez was an embarrassment. Guy can barely hang onto a 3rd QB gig these days and single handedly wrecked probably the two best rosters in franchise history. He stinks and he stunk. Please stop even pretending to insist otherwise. This thread is dumb. That guy ruined so much, most specifically nearly an entire decade of Jets foozeball.

 

 

[Freemanm]

On 11/28/2017 at 7:20 PM, SAR I said:

Everything being said about Eli Manning and the lack of wide receivers, running game, offensive line, and offensive coordination and being passed off as a scapegoat for his GM and head coach is precisely what happened to Mark Sanchez.

So laugh it up Jets fans. This happened to your quarterback in this town too. And Mark Sanchez 2012 was a far better quarterback than Eli Manning 2017.  And unlike Giants fans who are screaming bloody murder right now, you drank the Kool Aid the media fed you.  Buttfumble videos on YouTube hurt your pathetic little millennial safespace feelings and blinded you to the best quarterback we've had since Namath.  

It's Year 5 of the post-Sanchez era.  You got what you wanted.  Hope you're happy.

SAR I

In 2010 Sanchez had Santonio Holmes (when he was playing hard for a contract) and Braylon Edwards in his prime, was playing behind the best OL in football and had a combination of LT and Shonn Greene out of the backfield. He still couldn't get it done. I don't feel sorry for him one damn bit.

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, Freemanm said:

In 2010 Sanchez had Santonio Holmes (when he was playing hard for a contract) and Braylon Edwards in his prime, was playing behind the best OL in football and had a combination of LT and Shonn Greene out of the backfield. He still couldn't get it done. I don't feel sorry for him one damn bit.

Opens the year 5-1, finishes the year 6-3.

5 fourth quarter comebacks turning losses into wins.

11-5 record is second best in team history.

2 playoff wins outplaying Manning and Brady on their home fields.

Is the best Jet on the field in the AFC Championship Game.

What exactly is your definition of "couldn't get it done"?

SAR I

 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What exactly is your definition of "couldn't get it done"?

SAR I

 

Mark Sanchez, 2011-2017 and counting.

[Mogglez]

After 4-5 years, the QB should be making the guys around him better.

Arizona. 2012.  Blame that on anyone other than Sanchez and you're out of your mind.  McElroy came in for like, one minute of game time and did what Mark couldn't do for the entire game.

[Beerfish]

4 wins ....on the road....because the qb sucked and was not able to win 11 or 12 games in years that the pig was really ripe for the slaughter.  Go back and look at those seasons and see the jets cough up games that would have put them in position to get a home field game or a bye.

And, the Giants were in the same boat, cept they beat the pars twice and won two super bowls.

The snot nosed brat sanchez was along for the ride for all but about 3 games in that tenure and as soon as they asked to actually be a franchise qb he fell on his ass, or moores ass, so hard it was laughable.

Matt Leinart was better.

[AbstraKt]

@AdamSchefter Giants could fire HC Ben McAdoo in 24 hours after Sunday's game vs. Raiders, sources tell @mortreport and me. es.pn/2jIQGAG

[JustInFudge]

It will be fun comparing Mark’s performance today vs Geno’s considering SAR told us Geno Smith was black balled by the NFL and would never sign with another team after the Jets. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Mark Sanchez's stint as a backup QB with the Eagles in 2014 and 2015 is what paved the way for their success today.  Everyone thinks Carson Wentz is the reason that team is winning but they are SADLY mistaken!  Sanchez is the linchpin of their success!

[JetFaninMI]

Still whining about Suckchez? Despite all the valid points made in this thread you have the usual suspects( SAR JUNC) saying they are right and everyone else is wrong. Surprise! Your wasting your breath guys. These guys love stating their opinions as FACT no matter how much you refute them with actual facts. Suckchez was a slightly below average QB who had the gift of playing with better players on the Defense and Offense. You cannot dispute that and you cannot change that. He had some flashes but when push comes to shove he stunk up the joint. His lasting legacy is quite fitting and is and will always be this:

 Or this:

And its topped all off by this:

[Il Mostro]

Amazing that the cult of Sanchez still exists today, although just hanging on by a thread and a butt fumble.

SAR I

[Jetsplayer21]

Geno Smith, plays 1 game and instantly holds the best game by a giant qb this season ha. Sanchez will be lucky to be a 3rd stringer for another yr. geno will be a starter lol

[nyjunc]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:14 PM, Warfish said:

Sure it does.  If you're going to claim Sanchez was a winner only screwed by the Jets mismanagement and lack of talent, you can't ignore his career since leaving the Jets, or his time on teams with talent. 

Yes, he was carried by the very talented team around him his first two (AFCCG) years, and he played poor to average in those regular seasons.  To his credit, he elevated his game quite a bit in the postseason.  After the team was no longer elite on D and on O around him, his poor play was exposed and dragged the less talented team around him down to loserville.  

So you do then think Eli and Mark are equal talents, and only mark's misfortune of playing in NY led to their different career paths.

Quite right, it was the combination of an elite Top 5 Defense and a Top 5 O-line/Running Game.  

We could, with an elite Defense and an Elite Running Game.  Most QB's don;t have both of those and many don't have either.  A Franchise QB is supposed to reduce the need for having those two things.  Did Sanchez ever, in his career, overcome the talent around him and make them better?  No.  At every stage he was made to look better by the talent that supported him, or look poor when the talent around him was not elite.

Actually, nothing about Sanchez "matters" now. 

What matters is our future, not a past under a different GM, different Coach, different O-Co and with an entirely different team.  

Is winning with Sanchez an option today?

I prefer to think about who our QB will be in 2018.  It's odd to me that we have as many folks as we do re-litigating seasons now long since over.

doesn't mater at all, what matters is what he did here.  Other teams don't want retreads, the fanbase doesn't get excited about retread QBs so to get another chance you need injuries.  He had that once and did really well in Philly.

He was good for a rookie in 2009 and really good in 2010. we don't make either title game w/o him. In 2008 against easier sched w/ no Brady around we couldn't even make the playoffs w/ a future HOFer.

so after the D was no longer really good it affected the team? you don't say.  after the talent around him vanished and his main weapons became Chaz Schilens, Stepehn Hill, Clyde Gates and Konrad Reuland his play suffered?  you don't say?

I think Mark and Eli are very similar, 2 turnover prone QBs that can get hot at any time and need talent around them and really good defense to win.  One had a team that kept surrounding him w/ talent, the other did not.

The same "elite" D that blew both title games including one where we had a double digit lead.  "Elite" D's don't usually do that.

and we never had an elite run game w/ Mark.  we had some good ones but never elite.

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 6:31 PM, SAR I said:

Right on.

From 2013-2015, Matt Ryan went 4-12 and 6-10 and ended the next season 2-7. 

Boy, how stupid are the Falcons for keeping the QB who once showed such promise and firing their head coach and OC.  Fools.  

SAR I

 

Mark had ONE losing season when he literally had no talent around him and we gave up on him. 

[SAR I]

12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Mark had ONE losing season when he literally had no talent around him and we gave up on him. 

It's awful.  Possibly the worst moment in Jets franchise history.

Yet the "I was embarrassed by the Buttfumble" contingent thinks it was a good thing.  Their frail little safe space feelings and all.

SAR I

[nyjunc]

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

It's awful.  Possibly the worst moment in Jets franchise history.

Yet the "I was embarrassed by the Buttfumble" contingent thinks it was a good thing.  Their frail little safe space feelings and all.

SAR I

most fans ink you need a Tom Brady to win, sure we'd love to have one but those guys are pretty rare.  We had an Eli Manning type that we could win w/ if surrounded by the right talent.  we won when we had talent around him, we didn't when that talent went away.  Certain QBs may be average overall but they don't allow late game or big game pressure to affect them, it's easier to win w/ guys like that than supposed top guys like Philip Rivers who always melts in big games.

[TuscanyTile2]

On 12/4/2017 at 6:56 AM, nyjunc said:

The same "elite" D that blew both title games including one where we had a double digit lead.  "Elite" D's don't usually do that.

and we never had an elite run game w/ Mark.  we had some good ones but never elite.

Mark had ONE losing season when he literally had no talent around him and we gave up on him. 

This is hilarious.  He never had an elite running game?  So is that a requirement for him to be successful?  I mean, he had an elite TEAM with Denver after they won the Superbowl and he couldn't even beat out Trevor Siemian.

He had 1 losing season where he had no talent and and the Jets gave up on him?  If he was so great wouldn't other teams have picked up on that?!

QBs are SCARCE in the NFL.  Most teams are not giving up on guys who show promise.  Sanchez was overrated and the Jets dumped him.  Then he bounced around the league for a few years and I think is a 3rd stringer right now (which is what he is).  If he was so talented then he would've done something since.  And if you say "the Jets ruined him" then he just plain wasn't tough enough.  Heck, he's STILL not too old to make a comeback in this league.  How come he isn't doing it though?  Drew Brees was given up on but turned things around.  You know why?  Because he's a legitimately great QB.  What's Mark Sanchez's excuse?  Is it that the league is so flush with great talent at QB?  I hope that's not your argument.

Sanchez is a bum.