Bowles: McCown Starter "Through End of Year"

[UnitedWhofans]

53 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Yes I am saying that. Whether or not they become franchise guys is irrelevant. They needed to be given the opportunity.

Why are the Giants starting Eli this week?

[BroadwayJoe12]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

This is a line of logic you can say about literally anyone then, if the results are irrelevant.  The guy who last bagged your groceries also needs to be given an opportunity to see if he can be a franchise guy.  Unless, of course, the fact that a person exists isn't enough reason for them to be given a shot?

EVER HEARD OF KURT WARNER TUFF GUY? DIDN'T THINK SO. FUTURE IS BRIGHT WITH BOWLS & MAC. THE BM IS STRONG. SOO STRONG...

[Larz]

They are comfortable in their evaluation that petty is a 26 year old career backup and hack is too embarrassing to play 

That was obvious in August 

[section314]

3 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

If the GM and /or coach have determined that both Petty and Hackenberg are truly totally incompetent from playing at all, so be it at this point.  However, that better translate into the GM going balls out for a potential franchise QB via the draft of free agency in 2018.  Failing to address he long term answer for the most important position on the field for a 4th consecutive year is gross negligence and utter incompetence, and any owner who's actually paying attention shouldn't stand for it.  In fact, ownership should intervene and DEMAND that the QB position is addressed in 2018.  I won't hold my breath.

Trust me, the order has probably already come down. Last year, the order was to rid the team of the quitters, malcontents and just bad guys. This year, one more of the quitters(Wilk) will go, and the QB will be addressed. You can now exhale.

[MaxAF]

I have to say that I was not in the McCown camp at the beginning of the year but you can't argue with the success he's had. If the Jets didn't falter in the 4th quarter in those few games they would already have a playoff spot pretty much locked up. Just a couple plays away from winning those games to boot. I have to agree with the coaching staff at this point to stick with McCown. We don't see what goes on in practice or in the locker room. The players and coaches are supportive of McCown and the fans should trust they are correct. Bowles job is to win...plus or minus nothing and he will coach to win whether the fan base agrees with his decisions or not. One difference that deserves observation between Fitz and McCown is the schedule. Fitz had a relatively soft schedule in his epic year with the Jets. This years schedule was pretty tough and McCown has done well with an inferior O-line, less talented receivers and not much of a ground game. You have to give him credit for that. I still would like to see the Jets trade up for at least a # 3 spot in the draft and get a QB.

[greenwave81]

On 12/6/2017 at 4:38 PM, JetFaninMI said:

At this point whats the difference? Of course McCown will start. Depending on what happens in FA he maybe our starter next year as well. If they don't get Counsins that is. Can you imagine if they chase Counsins and fail and McCown gets pissed off that they did chase Counsins and tells them to screw off? It could workout that way. Come next season you could be wishing we had McCown.

There a lot of things I might wish for in my life, but I can say most assuredly, that The Jets having McCown next year would NOT be one of them.

Jeebus.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Also there are plenty of younger guys starting. Sometimes you have to accept that simply being young (or old) isn't an attribute itself. I think if it was really even close then McCown wouldn't be starting. They play Anderson, Jenkins, the three 1st round picks, Shell, and others. They tried like crazy to have a reason to start Burris, Hackenberg, Petty, Devin Smith, Jalin Marshall, Mauldin, Simon, and more.

It's entirely possible that the players who are on the bench just aren't good.

Fair point.  But what happens if Macc brings back either or both of Hack and Petty.  Does that affect how you judge this decision?

[Paradis]

On 12/6/2017 at 2:19 PM, Beerfish said:

How do you start mo wilk when he is clearly not the best player,.  how do you start two rookie safeties when we could have brought in a 12 year vet safety?

If you take that tact you will NEVER play a rookie QB.  Darnold?  rosen?  Mayfield?  At this point in time none of them are better than a 15 year vet, thus the 15 year vet who will be 39 next year has to start every game.

I think everyone needs to accept that we're moving on from Petty and Hack. You're never going to see them start a game. They're sh*t.

Angry about that? Talk to Macc 

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I think everyone here needs to accept the fact that we're moving on from Petty and Hackenberg. You're never going to see them start a game in NY. 

Angry about that? Talk to Macc - and ask him why he drafts like a total sh*thead.

Maybe I'm being naive here but I think I disagree with your point.  I could see either or both coming back depending on the situation.  But I strongly do think Hack is coming back for year 3.  I think Macc sees something in him but knows he was a "broken" QB by the end at Penn State.  As for Petty, I think he's gone but it's conceivable he'll be a backup here.  Backups can be expensive (e.g. Chase Daniel) and Macc might not want to spend money on a high priced backup.

[TuscanyTile2]

One small glimmer of hope is that "being named starter through the end of the year" doesn't mean he can't be benched at halftime to take a look at one of the other guys.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Maybe I'm being naive here but I think I disagree with your point.  I could see either or both coming back depending on the situation.  But I strongly do think Hack is coming back for year 3.  I think Macc sees something in him but knows he was a "broken" QB by the end at Penn State.  As for Petty, I think he's gone but it's conceivable he'll be a backup here.  Backups can be expensive (e.g. Chase Daniel) and Macc might not want to spend money on a high priced backup.

well yea, Hack will likely be back for next TC (tho past that, i wouldn't hold my breath)... the broader point was, MGMT has decided its' not happening for those two. They'll never intentionally start a game.

Josh will finish out barring an injury and we're moving on to DRAFT/FA... 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Completely agree.  For all of the claims of a refusal to start young players, there are never any examples given of instances where younger players of superior, or even comparable, talent have been held behind veterans.  The only real instance I could see of that for this team might be Forte, but Powell is far from a young player himself, and has unfortunately shown in recent years that he is not built to take the beating of a full-time back, and they're still playing all 3 guys.

Meanwhile, on the other hand you have moves such as Kerley's signing and playing time, that was often previously used as another example of this supposed trend, and yet in his absence, Stewart and Hansen combined have not been able to match his contributions.  I have no problem excusing that for a couple of mid-round rookies, but it also supports the decisions made.

Perhaps they acquired Kerley (and Kearse) in the first place because the younger receivers weren’t cutting it. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Fair point.  But what happens if Macc brings back either or both of Hack and Petty.  Does that affect how you judge this decision?

Not really. If the same trio is brought back again by the GM, the level of increased displeasure would be insignificant as to which one of the 3 dead ends we drive down. 

You can’t have a GM bring in a player and then be surprised a HC in job preservation mode is playing him after it’s shown he’s clearly the better QB. 

When a HC has a few more guaranteed seasons left he can afford to be riskier with the starting QB. When he’s entering (or in) his lame duck season? Not so much.

[Maxman]

Well this is progress. McCown wasn't guaranteed the starting job in the playoffs. Earn it.

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Perhaps they acquired Kerley (and Kearse) in the first place because the younger receivers weren’t cutting it. 

Are you saying Ardarious Stewart and Devin Smith aren’t a young Wes Walker and Randy Moss?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

20 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Since when are Josh McCown’s interests more important than the team’s? 

Never, I said he has earned the right, "deserves got nothing to do with it"...

I can dislike the decision to sign him, start him over the rookies and leave him starting after the Miami loss, Atlanta loss, and after the break, I despise $125k per start but I can't dislike the person, by all accounts, he is a good teammate, working hard for our team - not his fault he was put in this position - looking to stay positive

Sucks for the team/fans that we do not get to see if the drafted QB's can develop but maybe the harsh reality is that Petty had his chance and Hack should not have been drafted, ever 

[ZachEY]

18 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Completely agree.  For all of the claims of a refusal to start young players, there are never any examples given of instances where younger players of superior, or even comparable, talent have been held behind veterans.  The only real instance I could see of that for this team might be Forte, but Powell is far from a young player himself, and has unfortunately shown in recent years that he is not built to take the beating of a full-time back, and they're still playing all 3 guys.

Meanwhile, on the other hand you have moves such as Kerley's signing and playing time, that was often previously used as another example of this supposed trend, and yet in his absence, Stewart and Hansen combined have not been able to match his contributions.  I have no problem excusing that for a couple of mid-round rookies, but it also supports the decisions made.

I make this argument about the QBs all the time.  When have we ever started a veteran QB over a young player who's given any indication he can play in this league?

[Bleedin Green]

42 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I make this argument about the QBs all the time.  When have we ever started a veteran QB over a young player who's given any indication he can play in this league?

Everyone knows Ratliff and Simms were destined for greatness.

[Beerfish]

14 hours ago, Paradis said:

I think everyone needs to accept that we're moving on from Petty and Hack. You're never going to see them start a game. They're sh*t.

Angry about that? Talk to Macc 

As I've said before, I have no issue with this at all, unless either one of them shows up at camp next year.  If both are cut before camp next year I'll gladly accept the fact that they evaluated them and they were so terrible they could not get even a snap in reg season once we are out of the playoffs.

If, as I suspect will happen that both or one of them is in camp next year then I have a major issue with it.

[Bleedin Green]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

As I've said before, I have no issue with this at all, unless either one of them shows up at camp next year.  If both are cut before camp next year I'll gladly accept the fact that they evaluated them and they were so terrible they could not get even a snap in reg season once we are out of the playoffs.

If, as I suspect will happen that both or one of them is in camp next year then I have a major issue with it.

It's all but guaranteed one of them will be the #3 QB, and both will likely be fighting it out for that job in camp next year.  There's even an outside chance both could stick if they sign Cousins.  However, you're probably taking a bit too much from that if you think it means any more than Macc not wanting to admit failure on both players until he absolutely has to, and that with their countless needs, the Jets are not going to waste their time signing / drafting 3 players at the position.

The team, including Macc, has regularly referred to Petty as a backup QB over the years.  Regardless of some fans' displeasure or disagreement with that, it's been a pretty consistent position they've always held for 3 years now.  On the other hand, they desperately tried to give Hack every opportunity to take the job in the preseason, and he failed as horribly as possible.  There's plenty of reason to be unhappy with these outcomes, but none of them suggest the Jets have any desperate need to start these guys.

[Beerfish]

There is absolutely no reason to keep guys around that are so bad they cannot even be considered to play at all in a lost season behind a 38 year old journeyman once the season is over.

You do not draft players to be 3rd stringers so if a guy is of 3d string quality then you dump him and bring in someone else to look at.

Keep your vet if you are stuck on that then draft two QBs or draft one and sign one udfa.

[MDL_JET]

Offensive coordinator John Morton made his feelings clear. He'd love another opportunity to coach Josh McCown, who will be a free agent.

"Sure, why wouldn't I? Look at the stats," Morton said Thursday.

Yes, look at the stats.

Based on passer rating, McCown is having the third-best quarterback season in Jets history. His is 96.7, which trails only Chad Pennington (104.2 in 2002) and Vinny Testaverde (101.6 in 1998).

"He's playing at a high level," Morton said. "I don't care what his age is."

McCown is 38, which means there's risk involved in re-signing him. From all indications, he wants to play another year. That he's playing the best ball of his life at this age shows his commitment to improvement and longevity.

"He's perfect for this system," Morton said.

But, as Morton noted, the quarterback decision isn't his call. The powers that be will formulate a plan, if they haven't already, addressing short- and long-term needs. Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg are under contract next season, although neither is considered the future starter. It would be a surprise if both return.

 

I'd say it's pretty obvious McCown will be back next year in some capacity. 

[MDL_JET]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

There is absolutely no reason to keep guys around that are so bad they cannot even be considered to play at all in a lost season behind a 38 year old journeyman once the season is over.

You do not draft players to be 3rd stringers so if a guy is of 3d string quality then you dump him and bring in someone else to look at.

Keep your vet if you are stuck on that then draft two QBs or draft one and sign one udfa.

But season isn't over. Thus no reason to even consider it. Playoffs are mathematically still alive, only 4 games left, theres just no reason to even consider making a switch. It's a pretty obvious move for the HC. 

You draft a QB, keep McCown and let Petty and Hack battle it for the 3rd spot. 

[Bleedin Green]

28 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I'd say it's pretty obvious McCown will be back next year in some capacity. 

I think the only exception would be if they went for a starting QB in free agency (i.e., Cousins), in which case he'd likely head elsewhere.  Otherwise, if they plan on addressing QB in the draft, I agree McCown is a pretty good money bet to return.

[UnitedWhofans]

28 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

But season isn't over. Thus no reason to even consider it. Playoffs are mathematically still alive, only 4 games left, theres just no reason to even consider making a switch. It's a pretty obvious move for the HC. 

You draft a QB, keep McCown and let Petty and Hack battle it for the 3rd spot. 

Exactly. The Giants wont even give Davis Webb a start, yet he is still on their roster. 

[MDL_JET]

16 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Exactly. The Giants wont even give Davis Webb a start, yet he is still on their roster. 

Well I mean, Giants are different right now. They're just trying to do anything to save face right now and not lose their fans. So it's Eli all the way. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

Well I mean, Giants are different right now. They're just trying to do anything to save face right now and not lose their fans. So it's Eli all the way. 

Yes because they mishandled the original changeover so badly.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

But season isn't over. Thus no reason to even consider it. Playoffs are mathematically still alive, only 4 games left, theres just no reason to even consider making a switch. It's a pretty obvious move for the HC. 

You draft a QB, keep McCown and let Petty and Hack battle it for the 3rd spot. 

The season will be over in a few more games and he will still not play them.

I'll repeat ZERO reason o keep either one them around if they are battling for #3, ZERO.  You are wasting time and resources on players who have no future at all.

We should have kept shaq Evans around so he could battle with the lower end receivers I suppose.

If these QBs are just this sh*tty then should not set foot in florham park next year.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Beerfish said:

The season will be over in a few more games and he will still not play them.

I'll repeat ZERO reason o keep either one them around if they are battling for #3, ZERO.  You are wasting time and resources on players who have no future at all.

We should have kept shaq Evans around so he could battle with the lower end receivers I suppose.

If these QBs are just this sh*tty then should not set foot in florham park next year.

 

So why do the Giants still have Davis Webb on their roster?

[Beerfish]

16 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So why do the Giants still have Davis Webb on their roster?

He has been there one year only and like here he should be playing.  If their coach comes out and says that eli is the starter no matter what then yes he should be punted next year as well.

In any case Davis Webb is therir version of Hack, he is awful

[Matt39]

You know if Maccagnan hadnt boned the drafts this Mccown thing may have actually worked.

Deion Jones made more plays in one game last night than Lee has made in 2 years for example.

[MDL_JET]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

The season will be over in a few more games and he will still not play them.

I'll repeat ZERO reason o keep either one them around if they are battling for #3, ZERO.  You are wasting time and resources on players who have no future at all.

We should have kept shaq Evans around so he could battle with the lower end receivers I suppose.

If these QBs are just this sh*tty then should not set foot in florham park next year.

 

There's only 4 left...Make it sound like we have 8 games to go or something. 

And why is there zero reason to keep around if they're battling for the 3rd spot? I mean, Hack I understand. I fully expect Petty to win that competition if it happened. Petty is perfectly fine to keep around as a cheap back up QB. In 2 years he'd be the #2 when McCown is out. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Are you saying Ardarious Stewart and Devin Smith aren’t a young Wes Walker and Randy Moss?

I am

[Philc1]

Resigning McCown for next year would be an enormous mistake and show how inept and short sighted this regime really is

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, Matt39 said:

You know if Maccagnan hadnt boned the drafts this Mccown thing may have actually worked.

Deion Jones made more plays in one game last night than Lee has made in 2 years for example.

All of his drafts have been garbage including this year