Morton & Bates

[Jetster]

Have the NY Jets finally solved the offensive coordinator & QB coach carousel? When is the last time you could remember having the ball get spread around so much, or seeing guys wide open, or seeing a back shoulder throws? While Josh McCown is certainly a journeyman, at least the guy looks like an NFL QB. 

Fitz had career year in 2015, but lets not forget how many 50/50 balls the dude chucked up to Marshall. Every game had a crazy Fitz scramble & 17 targets to Marshall & some awesome catch & runs from Enunwa. Everything else was dump offs to Forte & Powell, the offense was not NEARLY as diversified as it is right now. The Jets had two 100 yard WRs last week! This is what it means to put in a SYSTEM. You put in that system, everyone learns the SYSTEM, and from that point on you add plays that come off of the SYSTEM everyone is on the same page with. 

Morton is working with a weak oline, I think Johnson is bringing the line down & Center is a MUST in 2018, whether we draft one (Price from OS) or sign one of the 3 veterans coming up in free agency (My preference being Lindsley from Green Bay). What most excites me is how much better this offense can be with a upgraded oline & a stud RB that has some burst. Lets face it, Forte & even Powell have lost that umph you see from other young backs in the league (Powell is probably off the HGH,lol). McGuire looks like a nice complementary RB (nice late round find). The offense, each & every week, gets bogged down with negative running plays. There is a huge difference from 2nd & 4/5 then 2nd & 12 which happens WAY TO OFTEN to this offense. But, how exciting is it to see the ball spread around in the passing game? Even though I was pissed at the big plays the defense gave up last week, the game was exciting as hell because our offense kept coming back. I mean, I get to tell you that when KC scored on those 1st two possessions, I was like WTF this is last years Colts game all over again,lol. Both sides of the ball have a great chance to improve and the team is young for the most part, we have 4 picks in the top 111 probably & depending on what happens with Mo, we'll likely have after cutting Forte & Skrine upward of 95 to 105 million to spend.

If, and for the Jets its always a big IF, Macc can land us a QB, we might be looking at the best run the Jets have had since 2009 but instead of a team filled with mercanaries it could be filled with al kinds of youngsters, Leo, Shell, Anderson, Hansen, McGuire, Stewart, Enunwa (still pretty young), ASJ, Adams, Maye, Lee, Donahue, Leggette. It has been a really long time for this type of scenario for the NY Jets, even Parcells & Rex filled their teams with older veterans they were familiar with & overpaid many of them.

Looking forward to watching these last 4 games. And I'm feeling really good about Morton & Bates being part of this organization, I hope to god we have these two for the foreseeable future of our rebuild & hopefully resurgence to an AFC East crown. I have a good feeling. 

[section314]

19 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Have the NY Jets finally solved the offensive coordinator & QB coach carousel? When is the last time you could remember having the ball get spread around so much, or seeing guys wide open, or seeing a back shoulder throws? While Josh McCown is certainly a journeyman, at least the guy looks like an NFL QB. 

Fitz had career year in 2015, but lets not forget how many 50/50 balls the dude chucked up to Marshall. Every game had a crazy Fitz scramble & 17 targets to Marshall & some awesome catch & runs from Enunwa. Everything else was dump offs to Forte & Powell, the offense was not NEARLY as diversified as it is right now. The Jets had two 100 yard WRs last week! This is what it means to put in a SYSTEM. You put in that system, everyone learns the SYSTEM, and from that point on you add plays that come off of the SYSTEM everyone is on the same page with. 

Morton is working with a weak oline, I think Johnson is bringing the line down & Center is a MUST in 2018, whether we draft one (Price from OS) or sign one of the 3 veterans coming up in free agency (My preference being Lindsley from Green Bay). What most excites me is how much better this offense can be with a upgraded oline & a stud RB that has some burst. Lets face it, Forte & even Powell have lost that umph you see from other young backs in the league (Powell is probably off the HGH,lol). McGuire looks like a nice complementary RB (nice late round find). The offense, each & every week, gets bogged down with negative running plays. There is a huge difference from 2nd & 4/5 then 2nd & 12 which happens WAY TO OFTEN to this offense. But, how exciting is it to see the ball spread around in the passing game? Even though I was pissed at the big plays the defense gave up last week, the game was exciting as hell because our offense kept coming back. I mean, I get to tell you that when KC scored on those 1st two possessions, I was like WTF this is last years Colts game all over again,lol. Both sides of the ball have a great chance to improve and the team is young for the most part, we have 4 picks in the top 111 probably & depending on what happens with Mo, we'll likely have after cutting Forte & Skrine upward of 95 to 105 million to spend.

If, and for the Jets its always a big IF, Macc can land us a QB, we might be looking at the best run the Jets have had since 2009 but instead of a team filled with mercanaries it could be filled with al kinds of youngsters, Leo, Shell, Anderson, Hansen, McGuire, Stewart, Enunwa (still pretty young), ASJ, Adams, Maye, Lee, Donahue, Leggette. It has been a really long time for this type of scenario for the NY Jets, even Parcells & Rex filled their teams with older veterans they were familiar with & overpaid many of them.

Looking forward to watching these last 4 games. And I'm feeling really good about Morton & Bates being part of this organization, I hope to god we have these two for the foreseeable future of our rebuild & hopefully resurgence to an AFC East crown. I have a good feeling. 

Agree, the offense gets 15% better the moment Johnson is shown the door. Would prefer a draft pick over a veteran C, but we have had tremendous success with both ( Mawae and Mangold.)  I have really been impressed with Morton this year and how he has gotten so much out of this offense. As to your point about how much they have gotten out of McCown, it must tell you how truly bad both Petty and Hack are that Bowles won't even consider putting either one in a game unless disaster strikes. 

[Jetster]

15 minutes ago, section314 said:

Agree, the offense gets 15% better the moment Johnson is shown the door. Would prefer a draft pick over a veteran C, but we have had tremendous success with both ( Mawae and Mangold.)  I have really been impressed with Morton this year and how he has gotten so much out of this offense. As to your point about how much they have gotten out of McCown, it must tell you how truly bad both Petty and Hack are that Bowles won't even consider putting either one in a game unless disaster strikes. 

I got to tell you, if Macc hadn't ignored the Oline or any of the past idiots like Tannenbaum starting with the Vlad Ducasse pick, I think the Jets would be in the playoffs with McCown QBing. Patriots, Falcons & Dolphins games were lost because of short yardage failures & some horrific run blocking. All 3 of those games were lost by negative yardage plays we couldn't dig out of. 8-4 or even 7-5 in this crazy AFC & we're easily in the hunt. Starting on the road in BUFFALO & then IN OAKLAND was a disaster starting schedule for such a young team to start the season. Be interesting to see how we play in Denver on the road, the team seems to be gelling a bit more & much more confident. As long as I see some growth each & every week from our youngsters, it's all I care about the next 4 games. Oh, and I'm actually much more inclined to pay a veteran center to solidify the Oline. They are not highly paid, we have a freaking TON of money and there are 2 pretty good ones to pick from Lindsley & Richburg from the Giants. I've said before Linsley would be a great get. Packers can run the ball this year with nobodys. 

[The Crimson King]

The problem with good coordinators and assistants is that they don't last long before someone steals them away

(I logged onto this thread hoping this was the lawfirm that someone started a class action PSL suit with)

 

[C Mart]

20 minutes ago, section314 said:

Agree, the offense gets 15% better the moment Johnson is shown the door. Would prefer a draft pick over a veteran C, but we have had tremendous success with both ( Mawae and Mangold.)  I have really been impressed with Morton this year and how he has gotten so much out of this offense. As to your point about how much they have gotten out of McCown, it must tell you how truly bad both Petty and Hack are that Bowles won't even consider putting either one in a game unless disaster strikes. 

Why would he?  Overall, McCown has been very good this yr...This is nothing like last season w/Fitz playing as bad as he was.  These 3 guys are so well connected. 

Bates was McCowns QB coach in Chi. Bates coached under Jon Gruden at Tampa. Morton was working w/Oakland (w/Al Davis) when Gruden was there.  McCown and Morton crossed paths in SF..Morton & Bates coached together at USC. 

 

[Jetster]

1 minute ago, The Crimson King said:

The problem with good coordinators and assistants is that they don't last long before someone steals them away

Agreed & that's my biggest worry with these 2. Johnsons have plenty of money, it's important to keep these guys so we can finally progress from one year to the next without everyone learning a new damn system. I'd love to know what Bates actually thinks of Hackenberg? Bates was considered a QB whisperer before he took a long hiatus. Funny thing is MOST of us were completely wrong regarding McCown. At this point McCown is WAY BETTER than Petty or Hack, so is it really that shocking that they would redshirt Hack in his 2nd year? There have been many a QB that have sat & learned over the years. I see so many posts on these sites that mention QBs coming out of college & fans quoted as saying, "he'll need 3 years on the bench", lol. We really have absolutely no idea what someone like Bates sees in Hackenberg, whether they've worked on his footwork, or throwing motion. I mean haven't we all learned that there is NO WAY in hell Bowles plays a green QB. He's a mystery wrapped in an enigma, lol.

[Jet_Engine1]

Jets would be better off with Morton and Bates both getting promotions after Bowles gets fired and takes Kacy with him.....

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

I got to tell you, if Macc hadn't ignored the Oline or any of the past idiots like Tannenbaum starting with the Vlad Ducasse pick, I think the Jets would be in the playoffs with McCown QBing. Patriots, Falcons & Dolphins games were lost because of short yardage failures & some horrific run blocking. All 3 of those games were lost by negative yardage plays we couldn't dig out of. 8-4 or even 7-5 in this crazy AFC & we're easily in the hunt. Starting on the road in BUFFALO & then IN OAKLAND was a disaster starting schedule for such a young team to start the season. Be interesting to see how we play in Denver on the road, the team seems to be gelling a bit more & much more confident. As long as I see some growth each & every week from our youngsters, it's all I care about the next 4 games. Oh, and I'm actually much more inclined to pay a veteran center to solidify the Oline. They are not highly paid, we have a freaking TON of money and there are 2 pretty good ones to pick from Lindsley & Richburg from the Giants. I've said before Linsley would be a great get. Packers can run the ball this year with nobodys. 

I'm not sure that Macc 'ignored' the O-line. You can argue he did not use a 1st round pick on a blue chip OT/O-lineman. But that's his philosophy-looking for O-line gems late. And with so much other talent available in the first round, it's hard to argue against. He nabbed 2 stud safeties that look like they will change the secondary for years to come. Should he have looked for Safety help later in the draft and addressed O-line early? Sure, you can argue that. But Macc went after O-line FAs the past two offseasons. So how can you say he 'ignored' the position. You can;t always get the guy you want, even if you throw a ton of money at him. And you will have egg on your face anyway if you over-pay or over-commit to a player who ends up getting hurt or having a down year anyway. He signed Clady and Clady played well until he got hurt. He signed Beachem and Winters and both seem to be average at best this year. Losing Mangold was tough, but can you really blame Macc for cutting the old man loose? Shell was a good find but he's not a very good run blocker. Macc has not been successful as revamping/rebuilding the o-line. But to suggest that he has been 'ignoring' it is very much inaccurate. 

[Bleedin Green]

I have nothing against either of these guys, but you think we would know better than to get too excitingly caught up with infatuation after one year.  Part of the reason for the praise they're getting is that they are certainly outperforming expectations, but if the Jets are actually able to acquire more talent on offense, will we really see the continued progress we would be expecting?  Will Morton continue to grow as a coordinator?  As other teams learn more about him, and adjust, will he properly adapt?

Let's not forget the infatuation many had with Schotty after one mediocre season in 2006, when the offense simply outperformed their misery of the prior few years.  Meanwhile, by the time he was sent packing, he was perhaps the most hated person on the team.  There are plenty of other coordinators, and head coaches, in Jets history who can have the same said about them, so I'm hardly ready to think these two can do no wrong.  Especially considering that, these days, there is a lot of effort by some to give Morton the credit for absolutely everything, regardless of whether it's actually his job, simply to make sure none is given to Bowles.

[Jetster]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I have nothing against either of these guys, but you think we would know better than to get too excitingly caught up with infatuation after one year.  Part of the reason for the praise they're getting is that they are certainly outperforming expectations, but if the Jets are actually able to acquire more talent on offense, will we really see the continued progress we would be expecting?  Will Morton continue to grow as a coordinator?  As other teams learn more about him, and adjust, will he properly adapt?

Let's not forget the infatuation many had with Schotty after one mediocre season in 2006, when the offense simply outperformed their misery of the prior few years.  Meanwhile, by the time he was sent packing, he was perhaps the most hated person on the team.  There are plenty of other coordinators, and head coaches, in Jets history who can have the same said about them, so I'm hardly ready to think these two can do no wrong.  Especially considering that, these days, there is a lot of effort by some to give Morton the credit for absolutely everything, regardless of whether it's actually his job, simply to make sure none is given to Bowles.

Infatuation with Shotty? Or Shoddy as most of us called him. Hey, I go by the eye test. Josh McCown was 2-22 when he came here in his last 24 games...2-22! We came in with an UDFA, a what everyone called a throw in trade for Kearse, Kerley is suspended, a resurrection TE, and a couple of rookies WRs succeeding with a inconsistent running game.  These guys have done more with this group than any OC I can ever remember here. Yea, I'm infatuated & have the right to be. 

[section314]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

Why would he?  Overall, McCown has been very good this yr...This is nothing like last season w/Fitz playing as bad as he was.  These 3 guys are so well connected. 

Bates was McCowns QB coach in Chi. Bates coached under Jon Gruden at Tampa. Morton was working w/Oakland (w/Al Davis) when Gruden was there.  McCown and Morton crossed paths in SF..Morton & Bates coached together at USC. 

 

My comment not aimed at McCown, or his past relationships with Morton and Bates. It talks to the fact that Bowles won't even consider, no matter what the record may be, even letting one of those two other QB's anywhere near the field. They must be absolutely terrible if two good coaches can't even get them to the point where they could play a meaningless game. That' s all. 

[MDL_JET]

11 minutes ago, section314 said:

My comment not aimed at McCown, or his past relationships with Morton and Bates. It talks to the fact that Bowles won't even consider, no matter what the record may be, even letting one of those two other QB's anywhere near the field. They must be absolutely terrible if two good coaches can't even get them to the point where they could play a meaningless game. That' s all. 

Honestly. Even though I want to see them play, if I were the head coach i'd probably say f off to playing both of them as well. Your team is playing good football, your QB is playing well, they're technically still alive for the playoffs. There's no way I would stand in front of the team and be like OK, good job everyone but now we're handing things over to Hack. That's just asking for trouble.

[C Mart]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

My comment not aimed at McCown, or his past relationships with Morton and Bates. It talks to the fact that Bowles won't even consider, no matter what the record may be, even letting one of those two other QB's anywhere near the field. They must be absolutely terrible if two good coaches can't even get them to the point where they could play a meaningless game. That' s all. 

Well McCown was a 3rd round pick in 2002, was 23 yrs old when he made his NFL debut, threw 18 passes while completing 7.  Maybe Petty/Hack develop maybe they won't.

Morton talks McCown 8 minutes in

http://www.newyorkjets.com/videos/videos/John-Morton-Von-Miller-Is-One-of-the-Best-Players-in-the-NFL/a20be198-7f73-468d-835a-5a39b57d818e

 

[section314]

14 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Honestly. Even though I want to see them play, if I were the head coach i'd probably say f off to playing both of them as well. Your team is playing good football, your QB is playing well, they're technically still alive for the playoffs. There's no way I would stand in front of the team and be like OK, good job everyone but now we're handing things over to Hack. That's just asking for trouble.

I agree with you, if mathematically still alive, McCown plays. If/when, eliminated, it's not crazy to let a young guy play. My point is these guys must be so bad, and basically allergic to coaching, that Bowles won't even consider it.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Infatuation with Shotty? Or Shoddy as most of us called him. Hey, I go by the eye test. Josh McCown was 2-22 when he came here in his last 24 games...2-22! We came in with an UDFA, a what everyone called a throw in trade for Kearse, Kerley is suspended, a resurrection TE, and a couple of rookies WRs succeeding with a inconsistent running game.  These guys have done more with this group than any OC I can ever remember here. Yea, I'm infatuated & have the right to be. 

Your first comment proves my point completely, as that was nowhere close to what ole Schitty was considered after his first year on the job.  After all, he was seen as part of the "Mangeinus" brain trust that was set to finally contend with the evil Patriots.  We saw how that all turned out.

I'm not even criticizing Morton or Bates mind you, I'm actually happy with what we've seen this year, but just pointing out the heaps of praise are a bit extreme after less than a year.  I'd figure we'd learn, considering the number of times we've seen past Jets coaches having peaked in year 1, when expectations are at their lowest.  New coaches jobs only get harder once the opposition has an offseason to study and learn about what you do, and you now have to stay one step ahead of them.

This also seems to often include simultaneously praising Morton for things that are somehow supposed to considered damning of Bowles, proving it to be a rather skewed/biased evaluation.  The team has had it's ups and downs this year, and I don't dispute for a moment that is primarily due to the limited talent, but these guys still have plenty of growing to do.  I'm pleased with what they've shown so far, and there's reason to feel good.  However, the idea of a coach with a resume of a few months of coordinating an average offense now being the heir apparent as head coach is a bit absurd.

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, section314 said:

Agree, the offense gets 15% better the moment Johnson is shown the door. Would prefer a draft pick over a veteran C, but we have had tremendous success with both ( Mawae and Mangold.)  I have really been impressed with Morton this year and how he has gotten so much out of this offense. As to your point about how much they have gotten out of McCown, it must tell you how truly bad both Petty and Hack are that Bowles won't even consider putting either one in a game unless disaster strikes. 

just 15%?  probably more like 25% or 30% since johnson's play impacts winters and carpenter's which impact shell and beachum's.  at the very least they should be trying out other guys at the position right now.

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

Infatuation with Shotty? Or Shoddy as most of us called him. Hey, I go by the eye test. Josh McCown was 2-22 when he came here in his last 24 games...2-22! We came in with an UDFA, a what everyone called a throw in trade for Kearse, Kerley is suspended, a resurrection TE, and a couple of rookies WRs succeeding with a inconsistent running game.  These guys have done more with this group than any OC I can ever remember here. Yea, I'm infatuated & have the right to be. 

schitty was horrible.  he was a hackjob clone and didn't any repoire with the players.  it's looks like bates and morton are right there with the players if not on game day, certainly in practice.  schitty was usually curled up in a ball on the sidelines wanting his mommy.

[GhostOfGlennFoley]

Anyone who doesn't admire the job that John Morton has done in his first year is either delusional or a cynic. The man has somehow constructed the eighth most efficient passing offense in the league out of a 38 year old journeyman, two undrafted free agents, and a tight end who was cut for boozing. Not to mention he's done it with the most ramshackle offensive line in recent Jets history. This offense has wildly outperformed even the most optimistic expectations and insinuating that Morton is inadequate, considering what he was handed, is one of the most profoundly stupid things I've heard.

[ljr]

4 hours ago, section314 said:

I agree with you, if mathematically still alive, McCown plays. If/when, eliminated, it's not crazy to let a young guy play. My point is these guys must be so bad, and basically allergic to coaching, that Bowles won't even consider it.

Or that Bowles is a bad decision maker (albeit both these ideas are not mutually exclusive ... They can all be bad)

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, section314 said:

I agree with you, if mathematically still alive, McCown plays. If/when, eliminated, it's not crazy to let a young guy play. My point is these guys must be so bad, and basically allergic to coaching, that Bowles won't even consider it.

And if this is true this is a black mark against Mac; period.

Drafting sucky players in the 2nd round who aren't good enough to see the field at ALL is a big big problem.....

[FTL Jet Fan]

20 hours ago, Jetster said:

Have the NY Jets finally solved the offensive coordinator & QB coach carousel? When is the last time you could remember having the ball get spread around so much, or seeing guys wide open, or seeing a back shoulder throws? While Josh McCown is certainly a journeyman, at least the guy looks like an NFL QB. 

Fitz had career year in 2015, but lets not forget how many 50/50 balls the dude chucked up to Marshall. Every game had a crazy Fitz scramble & 17 targets to Marshall & some awesome catch & runs from Enunwa. Everything else was dump offs to Forte & Powell, the offense was not NEARLY as diversified as it is right now. The Jets had two 100 yard WRs last week! This is what it means to put in a SYSTEM. You put in that system, everyone learns the SYSTEM, and from that point on you add plays that come off of the SYSTEM everyone is on the same page with. 

Morton is working with a weak oline, I think Johnson is bringing the line down & Center is a MUST in 2018, whether we draft one (Price from OS) or sign one of the 3 veterans coming up in free agency (My preference being Lindsley from Green Bay). What most excites me is how much better this offense can be with a upgraded oline & a stud RB that has some burst. Lets face it, Forte & even Powell have lost that umph you see from other young backs in the league (Powell is probably off the HGH,lol). McGuire looks like a nice complementary RB (nice late round find). The offense, each & every week, gets bogged down with negative running plays. There is a huge difference from 2nd & 4/5 then 2nd & 12 which happens WAY TO OFTEN to this offense. But, how exciting is it to see the ball spread around in the passing game? Even though I was pissed at the big plays the defense gave up last week, the game was exciting as hell because our offense kept coming back. I mean, I get to tell you that when KC scored on those 1st two possessions, I was like WTF this is last years Colts game all over again,lol. Both sides of the ball have a great chance to improve and the team is young for the most part, we have 4 picks in the top 111 probably & depending on what happens with Mo, we'll likely have after cutting Forte & Skrine upward of 95 to 105 million to spend.

If, and for the Jets its always a big IF, Macc can land us a QB, we might be looking at the best run the Jets have had since 2009 but instead of a team filled with mercanaries it could be filled with al kinds of youngsters, Leo, Shell, Anderson, Hansen, McGuire, Stewart, Enunwa (still pretty young), ASJ, Adams, Maye, Lee, Donahue, Leggette. It has been a really long time for this type of scenario for the NY Jets, even Parcells & Rex filled their teams with older veterans they were familiar with & overpaid many of them.

Looking forward to watching these last 4 games. And I'm feeling really good about Morton & Bates being part of this organization, I hope to god we have these two for the foreseeable future of our rebuild & hopefully resurgence to an AFC East crown. I have a good feeling. 

Hopefully they stay or are not offered a higher position by another team. If that's the case we better not let them interview, which I don't have faith the FO will do.

[BCJet]

13 hours ago, GhostOfGlennFoley said:

Anyone who doesn't admire the job that John Morton has done in his first year is either delusional or a cynic. The man has somehow constructed the eighth most efficient passing offense in the league out of a 38 year old journeyman, two undrafted free agents, and a tight end who was cut for boozing. Not to mention he's done it with the most ramshackle offensive line in recent Jets history. This offense has wildly outperformed even the most optimistic expectations and insinuating that Morton is inadequate, considering what he was handed, is one of the most profoundly stupid things I've heard.

This 1000 times over