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Kirk Cousins is trash


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2 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Cousins is not trash.

But he will be a grossly overpaid QB that is in the average ranks of starters across the league. 

The Jets should want nothing to do with him.  

Yea with Cousins the Jets have a chance to be good but why risk that when they can continue with their winning formula of acquiring QBs that nobody but the Jets thinks are any good and thereby cement their ongoing failure into perpetuity.    :)  

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22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Like he has the Mid-Atlantic Indiginous Peoples competitive this year?

He's not hitting the open market.  If he does, we're not paying what it'd take to land him.  /endthread

Ultimately we are not ready to lay that kind of money out for a QB with all the holes this team has. I still think the guy will go someplace and have success. but agree probably not here.

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38 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Cousins is not trash.

But he will be a grossly overpaid QB that is in the average ranks of starters across the league. 

The Jets should want nothing to do with him.  

What QB in the NFL isn't grossly overpaid?  You have to pay, if you want to play.

Unless you have a QB on a rookie contract or you're an organization of cheaters who are circumventing the salary cap, every single team with a franchise QB is grossly overpaying them.  That's the NFL.  It's all about one position and those dudes get stupid contracts that they're not worth every single year.  And you know what, those teams are consistently competitive because of it.  

 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

What QB in the NFL isn't grossly overpaid?  You have to pay, if you want to play.

Unless you have a QB on a rookie contract or you're an organization of cheaters who are circumventing the salary cap, every single team with a franchise QB is grossly overpaying them.  That's the NFL.  It's all about one position and those dudes get stupid contracts that they're not worth every single year.  And you know what, those teams are consistently competitive because of it.  

 

Cousins is not worth $150 million plus the draft picks we have to send the Redskins when he’s franchise tagged

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

What QB in the NFL isn't grossly overpaid?  You have to pay, if you want to play.

Unless you have a QB on a rookie contract or you're an organization of cheaters who are circumventing the salary cap, every single team with a franchise QB is grossly overpaying them.  That's the NFL.  It's all about one position and those dudes get stupid contracts that they're not worth every single year.  And you know what, those teams are consistently competitive because of it.  

 

But they don't win superbowls

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1 hour ago, RoadFan said:

Cousins is not trash.

But he will be a grossly overpaid QB that is in the average ranks of starters across the league. 

The Jets should want nothing to do with him.  

Of course he'll be over paid.

He's a proven starter who is in the physical prime of his career and he's going to be a FA.  

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On 12/10/2017 at 8:47 PM, SAR I said:

Since I'm set to not see images and there's a big blank space, I'm assuming you put some meme there.

Type some text so I know what you're posting.

SAR I

I guess that's the same thing as putting joewilly12 on your ignore list.

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On 12/10/2017 at 7:34 PM, HawkeyeJet said:

That is valid.  I just don't get how some people love Darnold and hate Cousuns, simply from a player stand point. Not saying OP is one that does this, just something I've seen a few times in all the QB talks.

If Darnold reminds me of anyone it's Romo, not Cousins.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

What QB in the NFL isn't grossly overpaid?  You have to pay, if you want to play.

Unless you have a QB on a rookie contract or you're an organization of cheaters who are circumventing the salary cap, every single team with a franchise QB is grossly overpaying them.  That's the NFL.  It's all about one position and those dudes get stupid contracts that they're not worth every single year.  And you know what, those teams are consistently competitive because of it.  

 

Read my avatar.  Been there since March.

You overpay for the GOOD ones.  Not the mediocre.

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Cousins is not worth $150 million plus the draft picks we have to send the Redskins when he’s franchise tagged

I thought they cant tag him again since they've tagged him 2 years in a row? 

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

But they don't win superbowls

Yes, its weird.  Only 1 team wins it each year. 

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55 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Read my avatar.  Been there since March.

You overpay for the GOOD ones.  Not the mediocre.

I get that stance and typically agree but it's the position.  QB's are overpaid.  If you want one, eventually your paying for him. Even if you draft one, that rookie contract only last 4 years and if you actually find a good one, guess what you're going to have to do?  Over pay him when that contract is up.

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Just now, JiF said:

Yes, its weird.  Only 1 team wins it each year. 

Name a SB winner since the turn of the century eating up the cap allocation - as a percentage, not as a flat number of course - that Cousins is seeking (neighborhood of $30m/year and a cap limit that should grow to average ~$180m between 2018-2020). 

It hasn't been done with the likes of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, etc. But it'll happen with Kirk Cousins?

I get the attraction of a bust-proof, instant starter. Also I like Cousins better than some (though clearly not as much as others). I just don't think he's worth what it'll take to get him - if he's even available - and would rather see them draft a QB or 3 this year.

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23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Name a SB winner since the turn of the century eating up the cap allocation - as a percentage, not as a flat number of course - that Cousins is seeking (neighborhood of $30m/year and a cap limit that should grow to average ~$180m between 2018-2020). 

It hasn't been done with the likes of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, etc. But it'll happen with Kirk Cousins?

I get the attraction of a bust-proof, instant starter. Also I like Cousins better than some (though clearly not as much as others). I just don't think he's worth what it'll take to get him - if he's even available - and would rather see them draft a QB or 3 this year.

$30M is excessive.  I do not think he will go for that much.  I would gladly pay him double or triple what I would pay McCown or Fitzpatrick. 

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There are perhaps 10 NFL teams that need QBs, and plenty of them have cap room.

So this should be a good, efficient market for him, and we can see what team's bid.

Stafford got a 5 year contract for $135mm with $92mm guaranteed.   I don't know whether anyone bids that for Cousins.   If the Jets had to pay him $27mm for 2 years and then get hit with $10mm to cut him in year 3 (because they had drafted and groomed a replacement), that would not be a horrible deal to me.

I do think it is possible that Mac believes, in this draft, he can find a QB at the top of the second round-like a Stidham or Falk.  Maybe he is ready in Year 3.  

I do think the market pays Cousins a bit less than Carr/Stafford/Luck.  A bit less.

It would be looney tunes to pay Cousins all that money after trading a first round draft pick that could used to draft a salary capped QB.

 

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Kirk Cousins to New York Jets

10 OF 12

 

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Denis Poroy/Associated Press

Even though Drew Brees, Eli Manning and Alex Smith could be available this offseason, Kirk Cousins will be the crown jewel of the free-agent class.

Contract negotiations are all about timing. An individual doesn't need to be the league's best to be its highest-paid. The Detroit Lions' Matthew Stafford owns the NFL's most lucrative contract—worth $135 million. While Stafford is a fine player, he's not considered the league's best quarterback.

The rising salary cap allowed quarterbacks to take turns becoming the league's top-earning player. Cousins appears to be next in line.

The 29-year-old already maximized his income with the Washington Redskins by not signing a long-term extension and forcing the organization to use two franchise tags. A third would carry $34 million in guaranteed money.

Washington can control the situation, but it'll be costly. Too costly. And we haven't even addressed whether Cousins wants to remain with the organization.

Thus, attention must be turned toward those teams with enough cap space to entice the two-time 4,000-yard passer. Four organizations have $75 million or more to spend based on projections, and the Cleveland Browns and New York Jets are each in dire need of a franchise quarterback.

New York is better prepared to win in the short term and has this season, while Cleveland is still searching for its first victory. Cousins' inclusion could at some point push the Jets past the New England Patriots since Tom Brady can't play forever. Plus, New York is a major market that will provide more opportunities outside of football.

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    1 hour ago, varjet said:

    There are perhaps 10 NFL teams that need QBs, and plenty of them have cap room.

    So this should be a good, efficient market for him, and we can see what team's bid.

    Stafford got a 5 year contract for $135mm with $92mm guaranteed.   I don't know whether anyone bids that for Cousins.   If the Jets had to pay him $27mm for 2 years and then get hit with $10mm to cut him in year 3 (because they had drafted and groomed a replacement), that would not be a horrible deal to me.

    I do think it is possible that Mac believes, in this draft, he can find a QB at the top of the second round-like a Stidham or Falk.  Maybe he is ready in Year 3.  

    I do think the market pays Cousins a bit less than Carr/Stafford/Luck.  A bit less.

    It would be looney tunes to pay Cousins all that money after trading a first round draft pick that could used to draft a salary capped QB.

     

    So in effect we should give Maccagnan 7 years since he was hired to find a suitable replacement at QB because that is what we would be doing if the QB he picks this year is a bust.  

    Think that is what the Jets did with their last two draft picks; and under the 3 year cycle theory we could be looking at 10 years of bad play based on Maccagnan’s picks.  

    I like Maccagnan but not that much; especially after he appears to have blown it with Hackenberg.  

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    1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

    Name a SB winner since the turn of the century eating up the cap allocation - as a percentage, not as a flat number of course - that Cousins is seeking (neighborhood of $30m/year and a cap limit that should grow to average ~$180m between 2018-2020). 

    It hasn't been done with the likes of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, etc. But it'll happen with Kirk Cousins?

    I get the attraction of a bust-proof, instant starter. Also I like Cousins better than some (though clearly not as much as others). I just don't think he's worth what it'll take to get him - if he's even available - and would rather see them draft a QB or 3 this year.

    Honestly, I don't even pretend to be knowledgeable about the cap, so I'm definitely not knowledgeable on cap allocation per team.  So I'll take your word for it that it's not that many. That said, other than the QB's listed above, who else has even made it to the Super Bowl since the turn of the century?  It's pretty much the same teams/QB's ever year.  Didn't Matt Ryan get paid?  I don't know his cap space percentage but I know he got paid and should have won the Super Bowl last year.  What about Cam?  Flacco?  Or were their pay days after the Super Bowl?

    Let me redirect the question: how many QB's on their rookie contract have even made the Super Bowl?  Wilson and Kaep are the only ones that come to mind.  I guess the early Big Ben day? Or were Flacco or Cam on theirs too?  Because the only other QB's to the make it were Kurt Warner and Rex Grossman.  The list isn't long.  

    I don't know, I'm thinking it's probably more important to have a QB that can get you there than anything else. 

     

     

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    7 hours ago, BigO said:

    Is Cousins 3X better time than McClown who made 6 mill which would put Cousins worth at 18 mill. Nah. That’s Drew Brees money but he’s definitely an upgrade over McClown.  If Fitz got 12, and guys like Russell, Rapeburger, Luck are getting 20 and above, Cousins market value SHOULD be reasonably around 15.  What has he won? Zip. First win then get paid elite money. With that said he’s raking in 24 mill this year. Ridiculous.

    If Fitzpatrick got 12, Cousins should get at least 24 and he is easily worth 3-4 times what McCown gets. IIRC, McCown would get 8 if he played all the games.  Your idea of the market is completely off.  Stafford set the market and Cousins is certainly worth over 20.  You act like those are the only guys getting $20M. What did Derek Carr ever win?  ******* Ryan Tannehill gets around $20M per.  The idea that Cousins is worth $15M is ridiculous.  You sound like Concrete Charlie whining about today's players being a bunch of pussies.  

    On 12/10/2017 at 10:42 PM, Paradis said:

    jesus, that's the best you got? Cousins somehow made Pryor irrelevant, whilst getting his 1st round jump ball artist back healthy -- plus they're were uber deep at WR with Grant, Crowder and a multiple of TEs... add in Chris Thompson doing HALF of Cousins job for him.. 

    Cousins is OK at best. Your team loaded and ready to make a run? Sure, sign the SOB and buckle in..

    The Jets? faaaack no

    Uber-deep?  Grant never had more than 25 catches in a season.  Statistically he would be like #4 on the Jets and he had concussion issues this year.  Crowder seems to have taken a step back without Jackson, but he is not exactly a super stud.  He made Pryor irrelevant?  I expected Pryor to take a step forward, but the guy had 77 catches on 140 targets in Cleveland.  He was simply the product of volume.  He struggled with the ankle for part of his time, but his numbers in Washington haven't actually been that much worse - 55% at 13.1ypc vs 54.1% at 12. Doctson is who I would have expected you to name.  

    Cousins is OK at worst.

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    12 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

    I have no idea where some of you come up with this nonsense.

    I watch football and form my own opinion, that's how.  I don't just regurgitate what other people think.

    You tell me what part of the comparison is off, since you think it's so daft.

    Both are similar size.

    Both have adequate but not great arms.  

    Both have good accuracy, especially on short and intermediate routes.

    Both are considered great leaders.

    Both are considered smart/cerebral players, but yet both tend to be plagued by turnovers more than someone with the "smart" label should.

    So you tell me why they aren't a like, other than 1 was a 4th round pick and the other someone told you was an elite can't miss prospect. 

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    3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

    If Fitzpatrick got 12, Cousins should get at least 24 and he is easily worth 3-4 times what McCown gets. IIRC, McCown would get 8 if he played all the games.  Your idea of the market is completely off.  Stafford set the market and Cousins is certainly worth over 20.  You act like those are the only guys getting $20M. What did Derek Carr ever win?  ******* Ryan Tannehill gets around $20M per.  The idea that Cousins is worth $15M is ridiculous.  You sound like Concrete Charlie whining about today's players being a bunch of pussies.  

    Who’s whining? You’re the one whining like a female cat in heat because you don’t agree with my assessment of Cousins. I really don’t give 2 sh*ts what these guys get paid. Obviously some make more than others. Luck makes 30 million per, Brees 25, etc. Bottom line talent and potential gets paid but I’m just throwing in my calculation of how overpaid these guys are and what I think their worth is NOT what the hyped NFL market pays.  What would Namath get paid today? 50 million? 100 million? Why? Because he was an icon, a superstar who transcended the position immediately.  Manning was similar as was Brady once he established himself as The GOAT.  These guys could CARRY a team on their backs.   I don’t see Cousins as that type of guy. Is Cousins worth more money than Fitz? That’s a ridiculous question. Of course. Is Fitz worth 12 mil? Of course not. He’s good but hasn’t hit that apex.  Until then, NO I  wouldn’t pay him what the elite QB’s get yet. If you want to be my guest. 

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    Due to the good (or bad) old law of supply and demand. Cousins, with three years of solid numbers as a starter under his belt, will get at least close to Stafford number$  With our current cap space I would pay it rather than roll the dice drafting the unknown (and they are all the unknown when it comes to moving up to the pros). Spend the money on Cousins, spend the picks, and probably more money, on O-line.

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    9 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

    $30M is excessive.  I do not think he will go for that much.  I would gladly pay him double or triple what I would pay McCown or Fitzpatrick. 

    I don’t either. I said the amount he’s seeking, which coincides with the amount some seem willing to fork over.

    Then again, you’ll get the argument of “Well if he’s worth $25m then he’s worth $30m.” And really, there’s some truth to that, given the position’s value. Would $5m ever really be the difference between being 7-9 and a champ? Not likely.

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