Kirk Cousins is trash

[bla bla bla]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it's not a large sample size, but this is year 3 and they don't seem on their way to another 13-win season in 2017 either. Point isn't that they suck, but rather it's a lot harder to build a winner, cover up for bad draft picks or injuries, etc. when 1-2 guys are eating up so much of the cap.

Also when they sign their extensions in year 1 the number is typically lower. For a deal in the Cousins UFA range, it won't matter because it's so high overall. So they can make one year lower, but it'll then bump up a later year into the $35m or more range, which is nuts. He's a pretty good QB, but he isn't Rodgers-Brady-Peyton-Brees incredible. And even those guys never won one when their annual number was so high either. Brady - well he's clearly getting paid another way plus - dropped his salary to $1m because of the suspension (so he'd only lose $250K) and the next year it was still not very high. 

The freedom (and contract-mulligan creation) that expensive-position players buys a team, while they're under their rookie deals, is tremendous.

Agreed but I think because the Redskins will likely use the Transition Tag on him. A team that wants to avoid the Skins matching the deal will need to heavily front load his deal so the can't match it. This would be the reverse of what we see in some other QB contracts where they push off higher cap hits to later years.

[SenorGato]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, I've fought over players getting paid more than they're worth to a team.

Work it out however you want in your head, coincidentally it crosses every level of player talent including the elite players. There’s never not an excuse. Meanwhile none of the roster or cap restrictions you claim come from paying actually come into play and you rely completely on the luck of Wilkerson falling off a cliff in year one as vindication for your stance. 

Your’re probably not serious about the daily basis aspect of protecting Woody’s money, but are still a valiant serf for your lord nonetheless. 

[SenorGato]

22 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Using your metrics from this year, Cousins is ranked 16th qb five places ahead of McCown at 21st.

You''ve already drawing parallels between Cousins coming to the Jets with Peyton Manning going to Denver.

"That pool of players is 1 for 1 when it comes to winning SB rings with their FA team, if you care to consider that a factor in acquiring Cousins."

Why don't you hold off on your victory lap until Cousins wins the Super Bowl with the Jets? Once that happens I promise you, can knock you self out non stop telling me "I told you so".

I, in turn, will tell everyone on Jet Nation how deceptively smart you actually are and how dim I am.

Cool, he’s also nearly a decade younger coming off two seasons among the top handful or so. It doesn’t work that way - you don’t get to just ignore information because it works against your agenda. We’re still talking about a guy whose floor as is seems to be better than anything the Jets have gotten out of the QB position this decade and most of the previous one. 

I don’t even know what to say to the rest of that post or how you got what you got. 

[Gangrene]

27 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Cool, he’s also nearly a decade younger coming off two seasons among the top handful or so. It doesn’t work that way - you don’t get to just ignore information because it works against your agenda. We’re still talking about a guy whose floor as is seems to be better than anything the Jets have gotten out of the QB position this decade and most of the previous one. 

I don’t even know what to say to the rest of that post or how you got what you got. 

Ironically  we agree on a lot but you see your information as the only possible interpretation and my information as an agenda.

Have a good evening Señor 

[SAR I]

Stop talking about Kirk Cousins. 

Enough.  

I am at Star Wars  I will spoil it for all of you if this thread is on Page 1 at 9:45 or thereafter.

SAR I

[SenorGato]

34 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Ironically  we agree on a lot but you see your information as the only possible interpretation and my information as an agenda.

Have a good evening Señor 

You’ve literally only offered me your opinion. I think it’s fair to have the opinion that the Jets suck and are locked into sucking for eternity or that the feel is Cousins doesn’t have thegut It Will Chutzpah factor, but it’s not to be confused for information. 

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, Gangrene said:

MS was just an example, the Bills was just an example. I get our point of view with Cousins. Yes, we would be closer but however you attempt to win a Super Bowl it's weighing up risks, it's a complete gamble right ?

How many Super Bowls have been won in recent years by imported qb's that were not drafted by those Super Bowl winning teams? The only one I can think of is Manning onto Denver's loaded defense. He was average at that stage of his career but their roster was not average. Otherwise cost wise to both fill a roster with many holes and pay a top qb, the percentages of everything falling into place in terms of avoiding injuries... it's extremely small.

No doubt you have an aurgument why it's worth the risk, I just haven't seen it happen with a  roster as poor as the Jets. Another AFC championship game doesn't excite me. I remember going to game six in Yankee Stadium 1996 via the Braves. I was not a season ticket holder and I was crazy to go. My girl and I lined up for seventeen hours for those tickets and we lucke out getting game six tickets. I might have been the happiest I have ever been in my life - I'd like that feeling as a Jets fan.

 

 

Brees in New Orleans

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Stop talking about Kirk Cousins. 

Enough.  

I am at Star Wars  I will spoil it for all of you if this thread is on Page 1 at 9:45 or thereafter.

SAR I

The Good Guys lose because it’s the second movie of a Good Guys Win triology. It’s less like ESB than TFA was a New Hope buuuuut it’s the one where the Good Guys lose. Mark Sanchez is still a joke and the worst thing that ever happened to this franchise. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it's not a large sample size, but this is year 3 and they don't seem on their way to another 13-win season in 2017 either. Point isn't that they suck, but rather it's a lot harder to build a winner, cover up for bad draft picks or injuries, etc. when 1-2 guys are eating up so much of the cap.

Also when they sign their extensions in year 1 the number is typically lower. For a deal in the Cousins UFA range, it won't matter because it's so high overall. So they can make one year lower, but it'll then bump up a later year into the $35m or more range, which is nuts. He's a pretty good QB, but he isn't Rodgers-Brady-Peyton-Brees incredible. And even those guys never won one when their annual number was so high either. Brady - well he's clearly getting paid another way plus - dropped his salary to $1m because of the suspension (so he'd only lose $250K) and the next year it was still not very high. 

The freedom (and contract-mulligan creation) that expensive-position players buys a team, while they're under their rookie deals, is tremendous.

I think what is going to happen is that the contracts are going to be given in cycles where they get a ton one year and less the next to allow them to load up at other positions.  I am very interested to see what the Cousins UFA range is.  I am thinking it will be much closer to $25M/per which I think is not particularly crazy.  

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

Agreed but I think because the Redskins will likely use the Transition Tag on him. A team that wants to avoid the Skins matching the deal will need to heavily front load his deal so the can't match it. This would be the reverse of what we see in some other QB contracts where they push off higher cap hits to later years.

Reports are that they will not transition tag him.  They see that as letting him walk.  They will either franchise him or walk away.  

[Gangrene]

15 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Brees in New Orleans

Thank you that's a legit example, comparable.

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, SenorGato said:

The Good Guys lose because it’s the second movie of a Good Guys Win triology. It’s less like ESB than TFA was a New Hope buuuuut it’s the one where the Good Guys lose. Mark Sanchez is still a joke and the worst thing that ever happened to this franchise. 

You were warned.

Now, you will die.

SAR I

[SenorGato]

Just now, SAR I said:

You were warned.

Now, you will die.

SAR I

Won’t change that Sanchez sucked and sucks balls THO 

[SAR I]

2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Won’t change that Sanchez sucked and sucks balls THO 

What's more important is that you think the only quarterback to accomplish anything since 1970 is worthless.

You get what you deserve now.  God sent you Geno and Ryan and Bryce and Christian and Josh to punish you for your lack of faith.

SAR I

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What's more important is that you think the only quarterback to accomplish anything since 1970 is worthless.

You get what you deserve now.  God sent you Geno and Ryan and Bryce and Christian and Josh to punish you for your lack of faith.

SAR I

Sanchez was far and away the worst punishment. Jets finally take a QB with a top five pick, basically gave up nothing to do it, and it turns out he was sent by evil itself to sink this franchise further for another decade. Fuuuck that guy and the foozeball takes of anyone defending him in 2017. 

[bla bla bla]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Reports are that they will not transition tag him.  They see that as letting him walk.  They will either franchise him or walk away.  

I find that interesting that they wouldn't transition tag him. I think they could come out and say:

"We just can't justify one year at $34M just to potentially have you walk next year. What we'd like to do is Transition Tag you so it allows you to gauge your worth as though it were FA but we want you back so badly that we want to have the opportunity to match a contract that is given to you"

That's the route I'd take as an organization, I think it tries to show the fans that they want him but don't want to be held under the threat of him leaving next year. If Cousins chooses to take a deal that the Redskins can't match then so be it, the Redskins then have an out. I think they won't roll the dice on the franchise tag because Cousins will opt to play it out and then be in the same position next year. I guess the sole benefit of just letting him walk without any tag at the end of the season is that you'll get a late 3rd rounder in 2019 assuming you don't spend the $52M on free agents that will cancel out any comp pick.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Sanchez was far and away the worst punishment. Jets finally take a QB with a top five pick, basically gave up nothing to do it, and it turns out he was sent by evil itself to sink this franchise further for another decade. Fuuuck that guy and the foozeball takes of anyone defending him in 2017. 

How ya doing since he left?  You happy with the improvement in play at the position?  You know, because Tim Tebow, Greg McElroy, Geno Smith, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, and Josh McCown have been soooo much better?

LOL.  Enjoy.  You got what you wished for.

SAR I

[JetFaninMI]

39 minutes ago, SAR I said:

How ya doing since he left?  You happy with the improvement in play at the position?  You know, because Tim Tebow, Greg McElroy, Geno Smith, Michael Vick, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bryce Petty, Christian Hackenberg, and Josh McCown have been soooo much better?

LOL.  Enjoy.  You got what you wished for.

SAR I

Sounds like a broken record. The same tired bullsh*t over and over again.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Sanchez was far and away the worst punishment. Jets finally take a QB with a top five pick, basically gave up nothing to do it, and it turns out he was sent by evil itself to sink this franchise further for another decade. Fuuuck that guy and the foozeball takes of anyone defending him in 2017. 

Don't bother S.G. The Elitist Skankee Fan cannot understand anything but their own convoluted take on reality.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Sounds like a broken record. The same tired bullsh*t over and over again.

You just call out my name,
And you know where ever I am
I'll come running, oh yeah baby
To see you again.
Winter, spring, summer, or fall,
All you have to do is call
And I'll be there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've got a friend.

SAR I

[JetFaninMI]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

You just call out my name,
And you know where ever I am
I'll come running, oh yeah baby
To see you again.
Winter, spring, summer, or fall,
All you have to do is call
And I'll be there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've got a friend.

SAR I

Broken Record

Hollywood Undead

Why the **** do I keep feeling like I lost my sh*t?
It’s like I should just give up because I’m not legit
It’s like I got a chain wallet and some frosted tips
Sometimes I wanna grab a ******* gun and swallow it
It's like pulling teeth for me to give a compliment
That's why I walk into your circle, and I talk some sh*t
I'm sure you tell all of your friends that I'm a monster prick
Man, I wish that guy would take a hike and chomp a dick
And I can't stop any of these evil thoughts
And I never thought I would ever be so lost
Make these bad thoughts go away, they need to stop
And if I keep sobbing like a bitch, I'll need a mop
It's like my mind's a broken record, make it go away
And I keep telling myself that I'll be okay
But something…

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Broken Record

Keep smiling, keep shining
Knowing you can always count on me, for sure
That's what friends are for

SAR I

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

How ya doing since he left?

Hilariously as bad as things are the QB play has actually gotten better especially in the most recent years. The last two Jets starters, Fitzgerald and McCown, managed pretty competent performances in 2015 and 2017, certainly waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than anything that dipsh*t Sanchez ever gave the Jets. All those AFCG Jets needed was competence out of their QB, even average would have worked, but that guy could not deliver. Probably lost too much juice banging underage drunk girls at da clubs. 

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Hilariously as bad as things are the QB play has actually gotten better especially in the most recent years. The last two Jets starters, Fitzgerald and McCown, managed pretty competent performances in 2015 and 2017, certainly waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than anything that dipsh*t Sanchez ever gave the Jets. All those AFCG Jets needed was competence out of their QB, even average would have worked, but that guy could not deliver. Probably lost too much juice banging underage drunk girls at da clubs. 

First of all, the guy’s name was Fitzpatrick and he choked in his win and in game, played terribly.  Which impressed you more, that 1-4 run in 2015 or the 3-6 run before being benched in 2016? 

McCown?  LOL he lost two games by himself and no-showed in two others, awesome that you are happy with that.  And you do realize that we are in the middle of a 2-6 stretch headed towards ending the season on a 2-9 run, right?  Or did that slip your mind too?

So competent!  Sanchez suuuucked!  Such high standards.  Let me guess; Mets fan, right?  Buttfumble got you teased and made you cry, no safe space, right? 

SAR I

 

[SenorGato]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Sanchez suuuucked!  Such high standards.

SAR I

 

High standards? This team would have killed for him to not be the worst passer in the league during their short window. He did, indeed, suck and worse is that he dragged eeeeeeeeeveryone and everything down with him. 

[Sperm Edwards]

18 hours ago, chirorob said:

Brees in New Orleans

Was on a $10m/year deal. The cap in 2009 was $123m.

He got a sizable bump in 2012, and from 2012-2016, the Saints have been 7-9 four times and 11-5 once. This year he's at $19m on a $165m cap and are 9-4.

There's an ocean of disparity between the above and the idea of Kirk Cousins at some $30m on a $170m cap.

[chirorob]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Was on a $10m/year deal. The cap in 2009 was $123m.

He got a sizable bump in 2012, and from 2012-2016, the Saints have been 7-9 four times and 11-5 once. This year he's at $19m on a $165m cap and are 9-4.

There's an ocean of disparity between the above and the idea of Kirk Cousins at some $30m on a $170m cap.

He was a FA good starting QB who went to another team and won a SB.  It was odd because they (Chargers) thought he was going to be a bust and drafted Rivers.  If Rivers doesn't hold out, Brees doesn't get that last chance to start, and is just another 2nd round unproductive QB.

Really, how many decent QBs even hit the market?  Name the last "Good" QB to hit the market?  You had the odd thing with OLD Peyton, and... I don't know who else. 

[Sperm Edwards]

18 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think what is going to happen is that the contracts are going to be given in cycles where they get a ton one year and less the next to allow them to load up at other positions.  I am very interested to see what the Cousins UFA range is.  I am thinking it will be much closer to $25M/per which I think is not particularly crazy.  

Reports are that they will not transition tag him.  They see that as letting him walk.  They will either franchise him or walk away.  

My guess, a month ago, was that it'd be around $24m as well, so we'll see if we're right or if the $30m/year hysterics that people are willing to toss around are more accurate.

The only advantage to transition tagging is one year at lower cost if no one else is really interested, while also not overbidding against themselves. Plus the added theoretical benefit, that if he sustains a career-altering injury they're off the hook after that season's over.

If it's closer to $24m, then by years 3-5 it'll feel like a good amount less as the cap limit continues to rise. But I still just don't see him as this gotta-have talent who makes everyone around him put up video game numbers. But even at a little lower amount, compared to a 1st round pick QB, it's a pair of $10m/year FA starters to add (on top of having a new QB). There's obvious downside with a pick, but the upside isn't just the cost; it's also that we could end up with a better QB than Cousins. That it would come with such a much lower pricetag is an added bonus. 

[SenorGato]

, so we'll see if we're right or if the $30m/year hysterics that people are willing to toss around are more accurate.

If I were less lazy I’d copy and paste just how often you’ve set Cousins at $30 million in this thread. POSSIBLY more than anyone else. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 minutes ago, chirorob said:

He was a FA good starting QB who went to another team and won a SB.  It was odd because they (Chargers) thought he was going to be a bust and drafted Rivers.  If Rivers doesn't hold out, Brees doesn't get that last chance to start, and is just another 2nd round unproductive QB.

Really, how many decent QBs even hit the market?  Name the last "Good" QB to hit the market?  You had the odd thing with OLD Peyton, and... I don't know who else. 

Absolutely he was, but in relative terms he was less than half the cost of the numbers being thrown around for Cousins. Even on the say the contract was signed, in 2006, Brees was just under 1/10 of the Saints' cap ($10m on a $102m limit) and that allocation only went down as years went on.

To make it the same proportional cost, the 2018 salary cap would have to jump to $250-300m. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 

 

If I were less lazy I’d copy and paste just how often you’ve set Cousins at $30 million in this thread. POSSIBLY more than anyone else. 

In response to various people saying they'd pay him $30m, yes. What of it?

Get over your us vs the man reason for Cousins or paying other non-amazing players the $ that should be reserved for amazing players. The team has a spending floor. It doesn't go away if it isn't overspent on a couple of ultra high priced players. Teams that spend this level $ for a merely pretty-good QB (for the first 3 quarters of games) don't typically win superbowls.

The odds of landing a FQB in the draft are far, far better than winning a SB with the likes of signing a 30 year-old Kirk Cousins to elite QB money.

[SenorGato]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In response to various people saying they'd pay him $30m, yes. What of it?

Get over your us vs the man reason for Cousins or paying other non-amazing players the $ that should be reserved for amazing players. The team has a spending floor. It doesn't go away if it isn't overspent on a couple of ultra high priced players. Teams that spend this level $ for a merely pretty-good QB (for the first 3 quarters of games) don't win superbowls.

The odds of landing a FQB in the draft are far, far better than winning a SB with the likes of signing a 30 year-old Kirk Cousins to elite QB money.

Has even one person said this? Can I start reading one of your posts without immediately being able to call shenanigans?

Amazing players lol - these super special beings that will one day exist if we just keep saving! You still absolutely make no sense. Nothing you say is practical and everything lives in this dream reality where if we just bide our time and save Woody’s money the perfect players will emerge in perfect conditions. It’s nonsense. 

As with most of your posts that last part is completely made up. What is actually the case is that QBs like Cousin don’t shake free but *every single time* an above average QB has hit FA the buyer has made and won the SB (Brees and Manning). Now please regale us with how Cousins’ aura and will to win don’t match those guys and therefore minus 6 odds using science. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Has even one person said this? Can I start reading one of your posts without immediately being able to call shenanigans?

Amazing players lol - these super special beings that will one day exist if we just keep saving! You still absolutely make no sense. 

As with most of your posts that last part is completely made up. What is actually the case is that QBs like Cousin don’t shake free but *every single time* an above average QB has hit FA the buyer has made and won the SB (Brees and Manning). Now please regale us with how Cousins’ aura and will to win don’t match those guys and therefore minus 6 odds using science. 

Yes plenty of people here have said they'd pay him $30m/year.

[SenorGato]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yes plenty of people here have said they'd pay him $30m/year.

Hey another line that reeks of horsepoop.  Name one! 

As far as I’ve seen the only people pushing the $30 million narrative are those like yourself. It’s this or some nonsense about it factors and not being amazing enough according to some made up on the spot standard...

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Hey another line that reeks of horsepoop.  Name one! 

As far as I’ve seen the only people pushing the $30 million narrative are those like yourself. It’s this or some nonsense about it factors and not being amazing enough according to some made up on the spot standard...

Nope. There were entire threads about it as any regulars know. You can do your own homework. Or you can still go on and on if it makes you feel good.

[SenorGato]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nope. There were entire threads about it as any regulars know. You can do your own homework. Or you can still go on and on if it makes you feel good.

Nah I’ll just go with the simplest solution which is that you made it up. It would hardly be the first time unless we’re just counting  within that one post. I don’t understand why you’d feel so compelled to be that way if your arguments are so airtight in your head, but it is what it is/sh*t happens/etc.