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Kirk Cousins is trash


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12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm confused -- am I ripping off Daniel Jeremiah or Jim Mora? Are there any other analysts that see the obvious comparison for me to rip off? Maybe Todd McShay could mention the similarities and I can copy him too.

But you're right, any consensus is clearly an example of mass plagiarism of the first person to see. That makes perfect sense.

Jim Mora said it first.  Daniel Jeremiah then wrote about what Mora said, and said "he sees it a little bit too". Prior to that, everyone compared Darnold to Luck.  Then a bunch of articles are written based off what DJ said, and all the sudden it's "consensus" opinion, when prior to that(which was an entire season worth of Darnold playing) no one said anything about Tony Romo and how they were similar.

Its the quintessential echo chamber.  I honestly don't give a crap whether you or anyone comes up with their conclusion independently, or base it off what someone else says, I just find it funny how the whole draft cycle  is all about the echo chamber.

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37 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

You do realize I'm talking about the Giants right?

No!  That make sense. 

The Giants will have more leeway because it will be year 1.  McAdoo had some good will from last year that he wasted, but Reese was already on the hot seat.

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With all the cap money we have available for next year, we could structure a contract where we take the brunt of his hit early to best utilize this cap room on a most premium position without hampering our cap for future years.  We still need to draft a QB regardless.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Yes but again, the list of QB's who have made the Super Bowl since the turn of the century is very short because it's repetitive. 

I see your point and I'm clearly not going to argue that your wrong, the proof is in the pudding.  However, this team hasn't made the playoffs since 2010 and has more losing seasons than winning seasons.  So lets just put the Super Bowl talk on hold and maybe start taking baby steps toward becoming a perennial playoff team who may eventually challenge the Patriots as Tom's career winds down.  And who knows, maybe they're able to do something crazy like draft well, which can afford them to allocate that much money to one position.

It just makes it hard to justify unless the guy's elite (or you think he could be elite). 

As far as the playoffs, he's made them once, after Washington got in with a 9-7 record, with 3 other divisional teams all with losing records, before getting trounced - playing at home - in the WC game. And his salary that year? $778,000. Even if you throw in RGIII's salary it's still in the $7.5m range.

I'm sure there's context to them and I don't nearly watch every game the guy plays, but his 4th quarter numbers are concerning for that kind of money.

Again, it could all work out. Just makes it a lot easier if you nail it in the draft and you get 4 years of low QB salary (plus a 5th year option for a little discounted if he's a 1st rounder). Lots of us said we'll see how much those superbowls and 12-13 win seasons continue once Wilson & Sherman are making veteran money. 10 wins has been their ceiling ever since and they haven't been back to a championship game (let alone the superbowl).

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It just makes it hard to justify unless the guy's elite (or you think he could be elite). 

As far as the playoffs, he's made them once, after Washington got in with a 9-7 record, with 3 other divisional teams all with losing records, before getting trounced - playing at home - in the WC game. And his salary that year? $778,000. Even if you throw in RGIII's salary it's still in the $7.5m range.

I'm sure there's context to them and I don't nearly watch every game the guy plays, but his 4th quarter numbers are concerning for that kind of money.

Again, it could all work out. Just makes it a lot easier if you nail it in the draft and you get 4 years of low QB salary (plus a 5th year option for a little discounted if he's a 1st rounder). Lots of us said we'll see how much those superbowls and 12-13 win seasons continue once Wilson & Sherman are making veteran money. 10 wins has been their ceiling ever since and they haven't been back to a championship game (let alone the superbowl).

Pretty sure that Sherman signed his extension in 2014.  That is the year they gave the Pats the super bowl.  Wilson signed his extension in 2015.  They have gone 10-6 and 10-5-1 and into at least the 2nd round of the playoffs each year.  Not exactly a huge sample size. 

IMO you have to decide f you are a guy that is willing to pay a good QB market value or be willing to try another way.  If you are going another way - draft a guy like Jackson, design an offense around him and spend on the rest.  I don't see the Jets doing either.

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4 hours ago, RichardTodd27 said:

I disagree. I don't think we're as far away as some people think. This team could easily have been 8-5 right now (even with McCown at QB and a horrible offensive line). If we fix our dreadful O-line (and sign Cousins), it'll make everything else so much better, including our defense and running game.

Teams are going from worst to first all the time (See Jaguars, Rams, Chargers, etc...). No reason why we can't do it.

I respect your opinion but I really don't see the progress at corner Claiborne is fragile and not signed for next year. Out tight end is not signed. Ever since the fan's least popular Jet was traded Sheldon R. the D line looks average. A coincidence ?

We agree on our crappy O line. Completely overrated, right across the board. Coaching ? Does it fill you with confidence ? Ability actually develop a QB ? Teams do go from worst to first but what core bright spot makes you think we can do it? Leo, the two safeties and Anderson ? The rest of the Jets is based on wishful thinking by the front office.

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2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

This is completely false.

Not only that but if it’s as dire as you imagine a rookie QB isn’t doing it either. It makes no sense that one fixes everything and the other doesn’t. They’re doing the same job. Between them Cousins is the far surer bet to perform. 

 

That's your opinion, I think Cousins is talented - we both agree there. Where we disagree is how much he can elevate a team with so many holes. I expect we disagree on how fixable the Jets are with the remaining salary cap space after Cousins is paid. I think it's wishful thinking because of the cornerback issues, the question marks at every single position on the line, the D line with or without Wilkerson, and re upping players that are due like our tight end.  

 

We both agree that a rookie qb brings us further, not closer from the playoffs. However my belief is while it is a much bigger risk/bust factor it gives us 25+ million more a year in cap room for four years, to try a fix the sh*t show that is the current state of Jets roster.

 

Agreed, my option is higher risk but we have been playing it safe, fielding mediocre teams trying to save coaches jobs for years.  It might be a poop show in Buffalo with the Peterson debacle but you have to admit at least Sean McDermott are making brave moves taking risks to try and end the futility there.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It just makes it hard to justify unless the guy's elite (or you think he could be elite). 

As far as the playoffs, he's made them once, after Washington got in with a 9-7 record, with 3 other divisional teams all with losing records, before getting trounced - playing at home - in the WC game. And his salary that year? $778,000. Even if you throw in RGIII's salary it's still in the $7.5m range.

I'm sure there's context to them and I don't nearly watch every game the guy plays, but his 4th quarter numbers are concerning for that kind of money.

Again, it could all work out. Just makes it a lot easier if you nail it in the draft and you get 4 years of low QB salary (plus a 5th year option for a little discounted if he's a 1st rounder). Lots of us said we'll see how much those superbowls and 12-13 win seasons continue once Wilson & Sherman are making veteran money. 10 wins has been their ceiling ever since and they haven't been back to a championship game (let alone the superbowl).

I mean you’ve fought tooth and nail on spending money on true elites as well. So what does it even take? The more I read it seems as if they should either spread their money among lesser FAs at lesser positions continuing their Jets cycle ooooor hold the money for this perfect inner circle inner circle HOF QB (or player) who is young and extremely successful with the right aura and will to win but is really just too good a person to want that kind of money. sh*t literally your last paragraph sets up drafting a rookie QB but warns to be leery of the future extension! Holy **** balls. The relentlessness with which you defend your leige’s money is admirable but this stuff is Swiss cheese. Like it was fun and games when it was CBs and DL, but now even QB is not worthy? For the Jets? Jeebus. And is there an argument that hints just the tiniest bit to his salary being a factor in his lone playoff appearance? I guess the loss either damns his Will to Win (for sure) and makes the case that his cap hit was still too large? Or was it RG3’s salary’s fault? Perhaps a combo of Cousins not having super special QB it juju, still too high a salary, and RG3’s definitely too high salary putting too much dark magic into the heart of the Redskins franchise draining out their will to succeed? 

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17 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

That's your opinion

Actually it’s just a blatantly obvious truth. You claim signing him moves them no closer. That’s false as having a QB would most definitely bring a franchise closer. This dipsh*t franchise has more or less hung out in the NFL’s middle class for almost twenty years without a QB, but every single time they try to elevate beyond that their QB-less asses get put right back in their place. 

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Respectfully you are stating your opionion as an obvious truth.

I get it you think signing Cousins moves them closer.  The Bills got close to being Super Bowl champs with four Super Bowl appearances.

We can say that drafting Mark Sanchez moved the jets closer because we got to the AFC championship twice. The reality is that the great O line and the running game got us there despite Mark Sanchez... but that is my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Respectfully you are stating your opionion as an obvious truth.

I get it you think signing Cousins moves them closer.  The Bills got close to being Super Bowl champs with four Super Bowl appearances.

We can say that drafting Mark Sanchez moved the jets closer because we got to the AFC championship twice. The reality is that the great O line and the running game got us there despite Mark Sanchez... but that is my opinion.

Respectfully I’m saying a QB moves anyone closer to the Super Bowl. Despite how like out there my opinion seems to be, real wild and crazy,  it’s the reality of today’s NFL. If you have a QB you are in the game. All you’re doing is saying they’re better off not even trying because - I’ll just assume the usual need to hoarde and protect Woody’s money until One Day when The One will show up and be worthy of it. 

I should have finished the whole post in one shot...Mark ******* Sanchez brought this franchise closer to the SB but they have noooo shot with Cousins? Have some of you full on lost it this year? 

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It just makes it hard to justify unless the guy's elite (or you think he could be elite). 

As far as the playoffs, he's made them once, after Washington got in with a 9-7 record, with 3 other divisional teams all with losing records, before getting trounced - playing at home - in the WC game. And his salary that year? $778,000. Even if you throw in RGIII's salary it's still in the $7.5m range.

I'm sure there's context to them and I don't nearly watch every game the guy plays, but his 4th quarter numbers are concerning for that kind of money.

Again, it could all work out. Just makes it a lot easier if you nail it in the draft and you get 4 years of low QB salary (plus a 5th year option for a little discounted if he's a 1st rounder). Lots of us said we'll see how much those superbowls and 12-13 win seasons continue once Wilson & Sherman are making veteran money. 10 wins has been their ceiling ever since and they haven't been back to a championship game (let alone the superbowl).

Oh no doubt, much preferred way to acquire a QB is to draft one.  But, this is the Jets were talking about.  It's not like they've got a good track record drafting QB's, the regime especially. 

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3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Respectfully I’m saying a QB moves anyone closer to the Super Bowl. Despite how like out there my opinion seems to be, real wild and crazy,  it’s the reality of today’s NFL. If you have a QB you are in the game. All you’re doing is saying they’re better off not even trying because - I’ll just assume the usual need to hoarde and protect Woody’s money until One Day when The One will show up and be worthy of it. 

I should have finished the whole post in one shot...Mark ******* Sanchez brought this franchise closer to the SB but they have noooo shot with Cousins? Have some of you full on lost it this year? 

MS was just an example, the Bills was just an example. I get our point of view with Cousins. Yes, we would be closer but however you attempt to win a Super Bowl it's weighing up risks, it's a complete gamble right ?

How many Super Bowls have been won in recent years by imported qb's that were not drafted by those Super Bowl winning teams? The only one I can think of is Manning onto Denver's loaded defense. He was average at that stage of his career but their roster was not average. Otherwise cost wise to both fill a roster with many holes and pay a top qb, the percentages of everything falling into place in terms of avoiding injuries... it's extremely small.

No doubt you have an aurgument why it's worth the risk, I just haven't seen it happen with a  roster as poor as the Jets. Another AFC championship game doesn't excite me. I remember going to game six in Yankee Stadium 1996 via the Braves. I was not a season ticket holder and I was crazy to go. My girl and I lined up for seventeen hours for those tickets and we lucke out getting game six tickets. I might have been the happiest I have ever been in my life - I'd like that feeling as a Jets fan.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

MS was just an example, the Bills was just an example. I get our point of view with Cousins. Yes, we would be closer but however you attempt to win a Super Bowl it's weighing up risks, it's a complete gamble right ?

How many Super Bowls have been won in recent years by imported qb's that were not drafted by those Super Bowl winning teams? The only one I can think of is Manning onto Denver's loaded defense. He was average at that stage of his career but their roster was not average. Otherwise cost wise to both fill a roster with many holes and pay a top qb, the percentages of everything falling into place in terms of avoiding injuries... it's extremely small.

No doubt you have an aurgument why it's worth the risk, I just haven't seen it happen with a  roster as poor as the Jets. Another AFC championship game doesn't excite me. I remember going to game six in Yankee Stadium 1996 via the Braves. I was not a season ticket holder and I was crazy to go. My girl and I lined up for seventeen hours for those tickets and we lucke out getting game six tickets. I might have been the happiest I have ever been in my life - I'd like that feeling as a Jets fan.

 

 

How many above average NFL starting QBs hit the open market still amongst the best passers in the league? Manning and...? That pool of players is 1 for 1 when it comes to winning SB rings with their FA team, if you care to consider that a factor in acquiring Cousins. 

Oh and Mark Sanchez is a horrible example that takes away from any case against Cousins. The Bills don’t regret making it to four SBs and I have no idea how that fits into why Cousins doesn’t make sense. 

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

How many above average NFL starting QBs hit the open market still amongst the best passers in the league? Manning and...? That pool of players is 1 for 1 when it comes to winning SB rings with their FA team, if you care to consider that a factor in acquiring Cousins. 

Oh and Mark Sanchez is a horrible example that takes away from any case against Cousins. The Bills don’t regret making it to four SBs and I have no idea how that fits into why Cousins doesn’t make sense. 

We could go back ond fourth on this until the cows come home.

You consider Cousins, "amongst the best passers in the league", you think that will compensate for a sh*tty overrated roster, a sh*tty coach and the genius who drafted Christain Hackenberg.

I had wildly hoping that the our GM might not f*ck up the qb drafting second time around and by the time the roster is closer to legitimate we might have a new coach who can win road games.

The good news for you is that I think there is a fair chance you will get your wish on Cousins. The Jets hard on for him is well documented in the past and may finally be available.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

We could go back ond fourth on this until the cows come home.

You consider Cousins, "amongst the best passers in the league", you think that will compensate for a sh*tty overrated roster, a sh*tty coach and the genius who drafted Christain Hackenberg.

I had wildly hoping that the our GM might not f*ck up the qb drafting second time around and by the time the roster is closer to legitimate we might have a new coach who can win road games.

The good news for you is that I think there is a fair chance you will get your wish on Cousins. The Jets hard on for him is well documented in the past and may finally be available.

 

 

Just so this is clear - I didn’t pick him out of a hat:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2016

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2015

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2017

Even this year where he’s fallen closer to the low teens is better than anything the Jets have gotten at the position in possibly decades. 

From there this roster is anything but overrated. That’s just a weird claim. The rest of your post is stuff about how we need the perfect team with the perfect coach to create the perfect situation for the perfect QB to one One Day until it’s time to get mad at his greed should he last beyond the rookie contract. The big secret that isn’t so secret is that you’re way overthinking it and everyone becomes amazing super smart awesome innovative once a QB comes to town. 

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I think it's hard to tell teams "trade a ton of draft picks or select BPA at QB but then if you hit don't re-up him for big money once his deal is up". I just don't see QB as a position to draft or change every 4 years especially when you finally find a guy. 

I also think given the vast amount of cap space we have, are there players that people see as more worthy to be paid the next 2 years when Cousins cap hits should be their highest? If Cousins cap hits in year 2020-2023 are in the $23M range I don't think that number will be holding us back unless the cap actually goes down. 

I see his contract as being $28M average per year for 6 years but his major cap hits coming in the first 2 years thus lowering the remaining 4 years when a major contract is more likely to hamstring us. I think $24M in 3 years will look similar to the $18-20M QBs that we see now. 

Matt Ryan - $20.75M (Team record 8-5) 12.5% of cap

Tom Brady - $20.5M (Team record 10-3) 12.3% of cap

Cam Newton - $20.76M (Team record 9-4) 12.4% of cap

Phillip Rivers - $20.8M (Team record 7-6) 12.4% of cap

Big Ben - $21.8M (Team Record 11-2) 13% of cap

Eli Manning - $21M (Team Record 2-11) 12.5% of cap

Carson Palmer - $21M (Team Record 6-7) 12.5% of cap

Russel Wilson - $21.9M (Team record 8-5) 13.1% of cap

All these teams outside of the Chargers were viewed as potential SB teams before the season and with the exception of the Cardinals and Giants, who were decimated by injuries to star players, look poised to be contending for a SB still. There are certainly teams like the Eagles, Rams, Cowboys and Titans too who have cheap QBs on rookie deals that have a shot at a SB but I think the QBs I listed still have a good chance at a ring and that's not including Rodgers or Brees who have much higher contracts but could arguably contend as well.

6 years $168M ($28M average with $65M guaranteed in the first 2 years) That would top Stafford's deal in both yearly average and guaranteed money. The deal below would also allow us to cut him after year 2 if he is terrible.

Year 1 - $40M

Year 2 - $35M

Year 3 - $24M

Year 4 - $23M

Year 5 - $23M

Year 6 - $23M

With $92M in cap space it would still leave us with $52M to resign our own FAs plus our draft class. Assuming we want Ealy, Claiborne, Davis, Catanzaro, ASJ, and Enunwa back that would put us at 43 players + the 7 draft picks. So we'd have 50 of 53 slots filled without taking into account any UDFA.

I believe it was @Sperm Edwards who correlated % of cap used at the time of signing for a QB. I think that is absolutely the right way to go about it but I think future years need to be taken into account for Cousins due to the odd nature of a franchise QB hitting FA. I only see truely outrageous cap % for the first 2 years. If Cousins signs for an average of $28M per year and we heavily front load his contract there is no reason he can't have a cap hit of $24M by year 3 which would put us in 2020 where overthecap.com speculates the cap to be $200M. Which would put Cousins at 12% of the cap. 

The major cost would be very limited FA signings in 2019. We'd need to rely on the 2018 and 2019 drafts plus the waiver wire and 2nd tier FA market in 2019. 

Obviously if you don't think Cousins is worth over paying for 2 years in order to have a manageable contract or you think a team is willing to give him $30M per year average over 6 years then this post won't be for you but I think a Cousins would take a deal like this. 

 

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Pretty sure that Sherman signed his extension in 2014.  That is the year they gave the Pats the super bowl.  Wilson signed his extension in 2015.  They have gone 10-6 and 10-5-1 and into at least the 2nd round of the playoffs each year.  Not exactly a huge sample size. 

IMO you have to decide f you are a guy that is willing to pay a good QB market value or be willing to try another way.  If you are going another way - draft a guy like Jackson, design an offense around him and spend on the rest.  I don't see the Jets doing either.

No it's not a large sample size, but this is year 3 and they don't seem on their way to another 13-win season in 2017 either. Point isn't that they suck, but rather it's a lot harder to build a winner, cover up for bad draft picks or injuries, etc. when 1-2 guys are eating up so much of the cap.

Also when they sign their extensions in year 1 the number is typically lower. For a deal in the Cousins UFA range, it won't matter because it's so high overall. So they can make one year lower, but it'll then bump up a later year into the $35m or more range, which is nuts. He's a pretty good QB, but he isn't Rodgers-Brady-Peyton-Brees incredible. And even those guys never won one when their annual number was so high either. Brady - well he's clearly getting paid another way plus - dropped his salary to $1m because of the suspension (so he'd only lose $250K) and the next year it was still not very high. 

The freedom (and contract-mulligan creation) that expensive-position players buys a team, while they're under their rookie deals, is tremendous.

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15 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Just so this is clear - I didn’t pick him out of a hat:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2016

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2015

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb2017

Even this year where he’s fallen closer to the low teens is better than anything the Jets have gotten at the position in possibly decades. 

From there this roster is anything but overrated. That’s just a weird claim. The rest of your post is stuff about how we need the perfect team with the perfect coach to create the perfect situation for the perfect QB to one One Day until it’s time to get mad at his greed should he last beyond the rookie contract. The big secret that isn’t so secret is that you’re way overthinking it and everyone becomes amazing super smart awesome innovative once a QB comes to town. 

Using your metrics from this year, Cousins is ranked 16th qb five places ahead of McCown at 21st.

You''ve already drawing parallels between Cousins coming to the Jets with Peyton Manning going to Denver.

"That pool of players is 1 for 1 when it comes to winning SB rings with their FA team, if you care to consider that a factor in acquiring Cousins."

Why don't you hold off on your victory lap until Cousins wins the Super Bowl with the Jets? Once that happens I promise you, can knock you self out non stop telling me "I told you so".

I, in turn, will tell everyone on Jet Nation how deceptively smart you actually are and how dim I am.

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3 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I mean you’ve fought tooth and nail on spending money on true elites as well. So what does it even take? The more I read it seems as if they should either spread their money among lesser FAs at lesser positions continuing their Jets cycle ooooor hold the money for this perfect inner circle inner circle HOF QB (or player) who is young and extremely successful with the right aura and will to win but is really just too good a person to want that kind of money. sh*t literally your last paragraph sets up drafting a rookie QB but warns to be leery of the future extension! Holy **** balls. The relentlessness with which you defend your leige’s money is admirable but this stuff is Swiss cheese. Like it was fun and games when it was CBs and DL, but now even QB is not worthy? For the Jets? Jeebus. And is there an argument that hints just the tiniest bit to his salary being a factor in his lone playoff appearance? I guess the loss either damns his Will to Win (for sure) and makes the case that his cap hit was still too large? Or was it RG3’s salary’s fault? Perhaps a combo of Cousins not having super special QB it juju, still too high a salary, and RG3’s definitely too high salary putting too much dark magic into the heart of the Redskins franchise draining out their will to succeed? 

No, I've fought over players getting paid more than they're worth to a team.

Revis wasn't worth $16m/year. Mo isn't worth $18m/year. And so on. It leaves a roster too top-heavy, where you have a handful of really good starters, a couple of great ones, and the rest is easily exploitable.

Plus I love watching out for Woody Johnson's bank account. This is my actual goal, of course. It brings me much pleasure and I get a lot out of it on a daily basis.

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it's not a large sample size, but this is year 3 and they don't seem on their way to another 13-win season in 2017 either. Point isn't that they suck, but rather it's a lot harder to build a winner, cover up for bad draft picks or injuries, etc. when 1-2 guys are eating up so much of the cap.

Also when they sign their extensions in year 1 the number is typically lower. For a deal in the Cousins UFA range, it won't matter because it's so high overall. So they can make one year lower, but it'll then bump up a later year into the $35m or more range, which is nuts. He's a pretty good QB, but he isn't Rodgers-Brady-Peyton-Brees incredible. And even those guys never won one when their annual number was so high either. Brady - well he's clearly getting paid another way plus - dropped his salary to $1m because of the suspension (so he'd only lose $250K) and the next year it was still not very high. 

The freedom (and contract-mulligan creation) that expensive-position players buys a team, while they're under their rookie deals, is tremendous.

Agreed but I think because the Redskins will likely use the Transition Tag on him. A team that wants to avoid the Skins matching the deal will need to heavily front load his deal so the can't match it. This would be the reverse of what we see in some other QB contracts where they push off higher cap hits to later years.

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21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, I've fought over players getting paid more than they're worth to a team.

Work it out however you want in your head, coincidentally it crosses every level of player talent including the elite players. There’s never not an excuse. Meanwhile none of the roster or cap restrictions you claim come from paying actually come into play and you rely completely on the luck of Wilkerson falling off a cliff in year one as vindication for your stance. 

Your’re probably not serious about the daily basis aspect of protecting Woody’s money, but are still a valiant serf for your lord nonetheless. 

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22 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Using your metrics from this year, Cousins is ranked 16th qb five places ahead of McCown at 21st.

You''ve already drawing parallels between Cousins coming to the Jets with Peyton Manning going to Denver.

"That pool of players is 1 for 1 when it comes to winning SB rings with their FA team, if you care to consider that a factor in acquiring Cousins."

Why don't you hold off on your victory lap until Cousins wins the Super Bowl with the Jets? Once that happens I promise you, can knock you self out non stop telling me "I told you so".

I, in turn, will tell everyone on Jet Nation how deceptively smart you actually are and how dim I am.

Cool, he’s also nearly a decade younger coming off two seasons among the top handful or so. It doesn’t work that way - you don’t get to just ignore information because it works against your agenda. We’re still talking about a guy whose floor as is seems to be better than anything the Jets have gotten out of the QB position this decade and most of the previous one. 

I don’t even know what to say to the rest of that post or how you got what you got. 

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27 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Cool, he’s also nearly a decade younger coming off two seasons among the top handful or so. It doesn’t work that way - you don’t get to just ignore information because it works against your agenda. We’re still talking about a guy whose floor as is seems to be better than anything the Jets have gotten out of the QB position this decade and most of the previous one. 

I don’t even know what to say to the rest of that post or how you got what you got. 

Ironically  we agree on a lot but you see your information as the only possible interpretation and my information as an agenda.

Have a good evening Señor 

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Stop talking about Kirk Cousins. 

Enough.  

I am at Star Wars  I will spoil it for all of you if this thread is on Page 1 at 9:45 or thereafter.

SAR I

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34 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Ironically  we agree on a lot but you see your information as the only possible interpretation and my information as an agenda.

Have a good evening Señor 

You’ve literally only offered me your opinion. I think it’s fair to have the opinion that the Jets suck and are locked into sucking for eternity or that the feel is Cousins doesn’t have thegut It Will Chutzpah factor, but it’s not to be confused for information. 

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3 hours ago, Gangrene said:

MS was just an example, the Bills was just an example. I get our point of view with Cousins. Yes, we would be closer but however you attempt to win a Super Bowl it's weighing up risks, it's a complete gamble right ?

How many Super Bowls have been won in recent years by imported qb's that were not drafted by those Super Bowl winning teams? The only one I can think of is Manning onto Denver's loaded defense. He was average at that stage of his career but their roster was not average. Otherwise cost wise to both fill a roster with many holes and pay a top qb, the percentages of everything falling into place in terms of avoiding injuries... it's extremely small.

No doubt you have an aurgument why it's worth the risk, I just haven't seen it happen with a  roster as poor as the Jets. Another AFC championship game doesn't excite me. I remember going to game six in Yankee Stadium 1996 via the Braves. I was not a season ticket holder and I was crazy to go. My girl and I lined up for seventeen hours for those tickets and we lucke out getting game six tickets. I might have been the happiest I have ever been in my life - I'd like that feeling as a Jets fan.

 

 

Brees in New Orleans

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9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Stop talking about Kirk Cousins. 

Enough.  

I am at Star Wars  I will spoil it for all of you if this thread is on Page 1 at 9:45 or thereafter.

SAR I

The Good Guys lose because it’s the second movie of a Good Guys Win triology. It’s less like ESB than TFA was a New Hope buuuuut it’s the one where the Good Guys lose. Mark Sanchez is still a joke and the worst thing that ever happened to this franchise. 

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No it's not a large sample size, but this is year 3 and they don't seem on their way to another 13-win season in 2017 either. Point isn't that they suck, but rather it's a lot harder to build a winner, cover up for bad draft picks or injuries, etc. when 1-2 guys are eating up so much of the cap.

Also when they sign their extensions in year 1 the number is typically lower. For a deal in the Cousins UFA range, it won't matter because it's so high overall. So they can make one year lower, but it'll then bump up a later year into the $35m or more range, which is nuts. He's a pretty good QB, but he isn't Rodgers-Brady-Peyton-Brees incredible. And even those guys never won one when their annual number was so high either. Brady - well he's clearly getting paid another way plus - dropped his salary to $1m because of the suspension (so he'd only lose $250K) and the next year it was still not very high. 

The freedom (and contract-mulligan creation) that expensive-position players buys a team, while they're under their rookie deals, is tremendous.

I think what is going to happen is that the contracts are going to be given in cycles where they get a ton one year and less the next to allow them to load up at other positions.  I am very interested to see what the Cousins UFA range is.  I am thinking it will be much closer to $25M/per which I think is not particularly crazy.  

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

Agreed but I think because the Redskins will likely use the Transition Tag on him. A team that wants to avoid the Skins matching the deal will need to heavily front load his deal so the can't match it. This would be the reverse of what we see in some other QB contracts where they push off higher cap hits to later years.

Reports are that they will not transition tag him.  They see that as letting him walk.  They will either franchise him or walk away.  

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