Complaints about Todd Bowles thread: MERGED

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, sourceworx said:

If you get rid of one, you have to get rid of both.

Absolutely 

[Beerfish]

They are both not good at all.  Mac has made a few decent moves.  Having a guy like Anderson turn out looks good for him.  The kearse move looks good.  Other than that though he as been bad as well.  Not being aware of positional value is a bad trait to have.

As someone astutely pointed out in a thread yesterday, all of our top picks play like they are decent 3rd round picks rather than being top 6 difference makers.

I also give him a bit of slack because of the jets awful awful organizational tree with him not being placed above the coach.

Until the jets figure out this very easy and basic organizational principle they will continue to fail.

[Philc1]

I just don’t see what jets fans and the ownership are so impressed by with Macagnan 

 

is is it the multiple playoff appearances?

 

is it the multiple pro bowlers he gets in the draft every year?

 

Is it the exciting young quarterbacks he keeps finding?

 

Or

 

Is it the 10-20 record last two seasons going back to week 17 2015?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Macc has brought in some good young talent, Bowles however can't even make obvious amature coaching decisions while standing on the sidelines clueless.

Sorry but If I had to compare the 2, Bowles is off the charts worse and its not even close. The reason this team is winning is due to the Fact John Morton had this offense playing at a level they should not have even been close too. Its the first time in years I have seen an OC actually able to scheme players wide open and in good mismatches, the first time since Charlie Weiss to be exact.

The Biggest rap on Macc is the inability to get a franchise QB in here and the only real mistake it seems he made was not drafting Watson but there were many people not so hot on Watson. I didn't have a problem with the reach on Hack in round 2 because the Kid does have all the physical talent to be great you just had to hope he had the mental ability which just so happens to be a gamble no matter what QB is available and that's been proven over time with early first round busts  outnumbering successes by a large margin.

How Macc handles this years FA market and draft will be what keeps him here or sends him packing. Honestly I would not spend much of the Money available until this team starts to win consistently then fill some Major holes to put us over the top in the next few years. However if the team has its sights set on one of the FA QB's namely Cousins then that will take a large chunk of the cap so the task will be difficult in how Macc proceeds. 

Either way this team wont win with Bowles making decisions like he did yesterday.

Agree with you on how bad Bowles is, but Macc is at least as bad. He just hides it better because he goes for high-floor draft picks early, instead of those with a high ceiling that actually make the team noticeably better. Those home run players are the types a team needs, and he's been doing the equivalent of putting a singles hitter batting cleanup.

Your take on Macc's "biggest rap" is also not correct for two huge reasons.

Reason #1, Watson isn't remotely the only FQB he's passed on. He's at least the 4th (5th if you include/count Dak): Cousins was available in '16 instead of trading for Fitz, trading up to draft Petty, which then leads to further future additional investment in the position (this ended up being re-upping Fitz and drafting Hackenberg, and then whatever we do next year as well). That's just year 1. Then year 2 he turned down a trade-up to #1 overall (which would have simultaneously rid us of the overpriced and wholly unnecessary - and almost immediately regretted - Mo extension), instead settling for Fitz and Hackenberg. Follow that up by paying $6m for McCown (never mind how lucky he got that McCown's career year made it look so much less stupid) which was both double the next-highest bid and also was a poor fit for a HC who has a too-wide comfort zone with old never-was QBs. Passing up on Watson for a goddamn safety is merely the cherry on top of his dookie sundae.

Reason #2 that's not correct on his rap is the team is not merely a QB away (as McCown has shown by playing better than one would reasonably expect any rookie QB to perform). Improvements are desired or desperately needed at QB, RB, go-to WR, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT (for all the overrating of Shell that fans do), DE (after cutting Mo), NT, edge rusher, CB1, CB2, and NB. You could make the argument for ASJ or Claiborne, but neither is under contract with the Jets for next year, and each would be foolish to forgo FA bidding unless Macc way overshoots with each of them like he did with Winters a year prior. Also neither is so freaking good anyway. Claiborne is ok, and would probably look better if we had a consistent pass rush, and ASJ has trouble catching a football cleanly without bobbling or outright dropping. Complain about the refs' calls all you want; if he catches them all cleanly there's nothing to get screwed over.

So you're half-right: they both need to go.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

They are both not good at all.  Mac has made a few decent moves.  Having a guy like Anderson turn out looks good for him.  The kearse move looks good.  Other than that though he as been bad as well.  Not being aware of positional value is a bad trait to have.

As someone astutely pointed out in a thread yesterday, all of our top picks play like they are decent 3rd round picks rather than being top 6 difference makers.

I also give him a bit of slack because of the jets awful awful organizational tree with him not being placed above the coach.

Until the jets figure out this very easy and basic organizational principle they will continue to fail.

Idzik signed Snacks Harrison as a rookie UFA.  Dick Kotite discovered Wayne Chrebet

 

Robby Anderson shouldn’t give Macagnan another 3 years

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Does this come as a surprise?  This has been Todd since day 1.  The worst part is, he actually played it right before the half a couple times this year.  For some reason, decided otherwise yesterday.  Down 13, on the road and getting the ball back at the half.   I’ve never seen a coach with a worse feel for the game.  

 

All he needs is another 30 years of NFL experience and he'll be just fine

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If you get rid of one, you have to get rid of both.

One would certainly hope so. But we have the younger brother of a clueless owner in his first year babysitting this team. It literally gets worse themore you think about it. 

[Philc1]

Just now, The Crusher said:

One would certainly hope so. But we have the younger brother of a clueless owner in his first year babysitting this team. It literally gets worse themore you think about it. 

Weak, absentee ownership

[joewilly12]

Just now, The Crusher said:

One would certainly hope so. But we have the younger brother of a clueless owner in his first year babysitting this team. It literally gets worse themore you think about it. 

Woody might tell Chris do what you want........ maybe Chris wants to pick his own GM and HC...Anything can happen with this team and it usually does.  

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

They are both not good at all.  Mac has made a few decent moves.  Having a guy like Anderson turn out looks good for him.  The kearse move looks good.  Other than that though he as been bad as well.  Not being aware of positional value is a bad trait to have.

As someone astutely pointed out in a thread yesterday, all of our top picks play like they are decent 3rd round picks rather than being top 6 difference makers.

I also give him a bit of slack because of the jets awful awful organizational tree with him not being placed above the coach.

Until the jets figure out this very easy and basic organizational principle they will continue to fail.

 Exactly. After three years No QB, No edge rusher, no #1 corner and no o line should = no job. 

 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Weak, absentee ownership

Ny Jets are basically a latch key kid. 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Woody might tell Chris do what you want........ maybe Chris wants to pick his own GM and HC...Anything can happen with this team and it usually does.  

No proof he knows what GM or HC stand for. 

[kevinc855]

8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I just don’t see what jets fans and the ownership are so impressed by with Macagnan 

 

is is it the multiple playoff appearances?

 

is it the multiple pro bowlers he gets in the draft every year?

 

Is it the exciting young quarterbacks he keeps finding?

 

Or

 

Is it the 10-20 record last two seasons going back to week 17 2015?

Oh now records count

[Gen X Jet]

I can't believe it's been 7 years since the loss in Pitt.

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If you get rid of one, you have to get rid of both.

I don't agree.

I don't fire a GM who:

A. Didn't pick his Coach, was forced to take a bad coach in Bowles.

B. Didn't control his Coach, Bowles reported to Ownership, not Macc.

I also do not believe overall talent is the primary issue of this team.

Are we the most talented?  Lol, no, but we're MUCH closer to midline than to the bottom IMO.

Have we made a few bad picks (Hack, Lee)?  Yes.  The Hack one is especially bad in hindsight.  But we've also made some very good deals and pickups too.

But overall, we're not untalented or poorly managed from the GM/Player Personel position.  

Where we are VERY poorly managed is at Head Coach.

I fire Bowles, and I let Macc hire HIS Head Coach and draft HIS QB of the future this cycel, despite my doubts about him.

In three seasons (2018-2020) if we're still here.....then the entire House gets cleaned.

But not before then.  Firing a GM because the Coach you (ownership) forced on him and didn't have report him is just not right.

[TnT]

But...But Casserly And Wolf said..............

[ChuckkieB]

The team needs another complete GM / head coach reboot.  The team has gone backwards under Mac and Bowles.  The roster is in worse shape after year 3 than it was in year 1 and is still filled with a few malcontents and plenty of stiffs.  How does anyone view either of these guys as successful??

[mkajet01]

Get rid of Bowles & mccagnan. Bowles drafts defense every yr & defense still sucks, forget about the offense

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[mkajet01]

Bowles sacrificed high draft pick & seeing if petty or hack could play so he played McCown rebuild yr to maybe win 5 or 6 games, this coach settles for mediocrity

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Augustiniak]

22 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

 

Alex Smith?  He got like 4 coaches and GM's fired before Harbaugh and Baalke moved him to KC.

my point is, a guy like alex smith can get you to the playoffs, and if mccags were to draft someone who can do this, even if the upside is not there, then he'll have more job security.  i'm not advocating this, but i believe this to be true.

[ChuckkieB]

Bowles deserves to be fired because he is a bad head coach who doesn't hold players accountable and has apparently lost the locker room for a 2nd year in a row.

Mac deserves to be fired because he's ignored the QB position for 3 years in a QB driven league.

I have to have my head examined for caring so much. 

 

 

 

 

[jeremy2020]

19 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If you get rid of one, you have to get rid of both.

Which is why both will stay

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, ChuckkieB said:

Bowles deserves to be fired because he is a bad head coach who doesn't hold players accountable and has apparently lost the locker room for a 2nd year in a row.

Mac deserves to be fired because he's ignored the QB position for 3 years in a QB driven league.

I have to have my head examined for caring so much. 

 

 

 

 

Agree CLEAN HOUSE 

[BigO]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

you say that but this team also played well vs some top talent in NE and the Panthers and could have easily won both those games and possibly another of the few they squandered in the 4th quarter so while they could be 2-11 they could have also been 8-5

Ok I’ll give you that. The league is also not as good this year so overall talent affects each team’s play. So 5-8 it is ?‍♂️

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't agree.

I don't fire a GM who:

A. Didn't pick his Coach, was forced to take a bad coach in Bowles.

B. Didn't control his Coach, Bowles reported to Ownership, not Macc.

I also do not believe overall talent is the primary issue of this team.

Are we the most talented?  Lol, no, but we're MUCH closer to midline than to the bottom IMO.

Have we made a few bad picks (Hack, Lee)?  Yes.  The Hack one is especially bad in hindsight.  But we've also made some very good deals and pickups too.

But overall, we're not untalented or poorly managed from the GM/Player Personel position.  

Where we are VERY poorly managed is at Head Coach.

I fire Bowles, and I let Macc hire HIS Head Coach and draft HIS QB of the future this cycel, despite my doubts about him.

In three seasons (2018-2020) if we're still here.....then the entire House gets cleaned.

But not before then.  Firing a GM because the Coach you (ownership) forced on him and didn't have report him is just not right.

Very well put. My words exactly .

[JohnnyLV]

The Jets will bring back both. It is the Jetsiest thing you can do.

Bowles actually stopped trying in an NFL game yesterday. That should get you fired on the spot.

Mac does not seem to understand relative positional value in the draft. Even if they were both "top of the board" players drafting safety at 1 and 2 is just not good value for those picks unless they are generational type future HOF players, which neither are.

Saying we should have picked Watson is hindsight, but we also passed on Mahomes and several other players at more important positions.

As a team, we never seem to learn from our mistakes. We make the same mistakes in the draft. and McClown is a repeat of the Fitz mistake. It's almost like we want to be mediocre.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

my point is, a guy like alex smith can get you to the playoffs, and if mccags were to draft someone who can do this, even if the upside is not there, then he'll have more job security.  i'm not advocating this, but i believe this to be true.

Alex Smith may be able to get you to the playoffs.  He cannot get the Jets to the playoffs. 

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

If you get rid of one, you have to get rid of both.

Which, in true Jets fashion, is why they’ll both get extensions.

[Gen X Jet]

Cowardly

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Alex Smith may be able to get you to the playoffs.  He cannot get the Jets to the playoffs. 

maybe not.  but i believe if mccags can find someone who does not completely suck that will save his job.  while i don't think that should be enough, that's what i think will happen.

[MDL_JET]

This team needs to get its structure right and move forward. Bowles is not the answer. They've been average since he got here. If he's not improving then move on. 

The roster has holes, but can be built on. I think the right coaching staff with the right attitude can do something with this roster. Not a guy that lets players walk all over him with no consequences. 

This doesn't need to be a 5 year rebuild. A good coach and his staff find ways to win, look at the Vikings. Their GM hasn't exactly been knocking it out of the park but over time it's come together and once Zimmer got there things turned around. Same with the Jags this year. Been bottom feeders for past 5 years, same GM stays but new Coach and Couglin overlooks things and hey! what do you know, they're not so bad. Rams too. 

Too many examples of where coaching and culture matters. Bowles isn't it. I don't even think drafting a top QB with Bowles will inject life into this team. 

[BigO]

24 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I just don’t see what jets fans and the ownership are so impressed by with Macagnan 

 

is is it the multiple playoff appearances?

 

is it the multiple pro bowlers he gets in the draft every year?

 

Is it the exciting young quarterbacks he keeps finding?

 

Or

 

Is it the 10-20 record last two seasons going back to week 17 2015?

Mac has that college professor look. How could he possibly do wrong. And the coffe mug is icing on the cake. Extend this beast. ?

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't agree.

I don't fire a GM who:

A. Didn't pick his Coach, was forced to take a bad coach in Bowles.

B. Didn't control his Coach, Bowles reported to Ownership, not Macc.

I also do not believe talent is the issue of this team.

Are we the most talented?  Lol, no, but we're closer to midline than to the bottom IMO.

Have we made a few bad picks (Hack, Lee)?  Yes.  The Hack one is especially bad in hindsight.

But overall, we're not untalented or poorly managed from the GM/Player Personel position.  

Where we are VERY poorly managed is at Head Coach.

I fire Bowles, and I let Macc hire HIS Head Coach and draft HIS QB of the future this cycel, despite my doubts about him.

In three seasons (2018-2020) if we're still here.....then the entire House gets cleaned.

But not before then.  Firing a GM because the Coach you (ownership) forced on him and didn't have report him is just not right.

Agreed, Bowles is a DOLT. Fans can't live in second guess world, Macc DID try to trade up for Wentz, and no one here REALLY KNOWS if he didn't want to give up a 3rd rounder that the press is purportedly saying (Yea, I trust the Jets press). But even if that happened, none of us really know the entire compensation that was asked of him in draft picks, sure NOW that Wentz has looked so good you can 2nd guess him, but again your all looking at this through the eye of a needle. Wentz has Blount, Ajayi, a very good Oline, Really good wideouts, Celek, 10 deep on their Dlineman. I hate to say this but Wentz might have torn his ACL, he'd probably have been crippled running around behind the Jets Oline. Macc, like 22 other teams in this league are hoping to get lucky with a QB, but, he's smart enough to know if you bring a young guy in & throw him to this group on offense as it consists of today, they will not succeed. The win mandate in 2015 set us back terribly after the horrific drafting of 2011-2015. 

We can give up all our picks & move up this year, but they better get that Oline straightened out or it won't even matter, he'll get David Carred.

[sourceworx]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't agree.

I don't fire a GM who:

A. Didn't pick his Coach, was forced to take a bad coach in Bowles.

B. Didn't control his Coach, Bowles reported to Ownership, not Macc.

I also do not believe overall talent is the primary issue of this team.

Are we the most talented?  Lol, no, but we're MUCH closer to midline than to the bottom IMO.

Have we made a few bad picks (Hack, Lee)?  Yes.  The Hack one is especially bad in hindsight.  But we've also made some very good deals and pickups too.

But overall, we're not untalented or poorly managed from the GM/Player Personel position.  

Where we are VERY poorly managed is at Head Coach.

I fire Bowles, and I let Macc hire HIS Head Coach and draft HIS QB of the future this cycel, despite my doubts about him.

In three seasons (2018-2020) if we're still here.....then the entire House gets cleaned.

But not before then.  Firing a GM because the Coach you (ownership) forced on him and didn't have report him is just not right.

You could say the same thing about John Idzik. Rex was forced upon him, and Idzik had no control over him because the owner had soft spot for him.

However Idzik deserved to be fired. Even though he made a few good trades (Chris Ivory being the best of them), he said the draft would be our lifeline, and then proved to be exceptionally bad at drafting.

Mac hasn't been that much better. I was a supporter of his until this last draft. Skipping over two good QBs for a safety was borderline criminal.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

Agreed, Bowles is a DOLT. 

I would also strongly caution against this kind of ad hominem.  

Bowles, by every account I've ever read, is a very intelligent man, and his experience is clearly broad and thorough.

You can be a very intelligent and experienced man and still not be a good NFL Head Coach.

Reductio ad absurdum to "Bowles is a Dolt" is both misguided, and questionable from a historic-racial-discrimination standpoint, and makes US look foolish for having engaged in it.

He is not, in fact, a Dolt. He is simply not a good enough NFL Head Coach for many reasons that have nothing to do with his intelligence.