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Complaints about Todd Bowles thread: MERGED

freestater

By freestater
in NY Jets Forum

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BigO

BigO

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

This team needs to get its structure right and move forward. Bowles is not the answer. They've been average since he got here. If he's not improving then move on. 

The roster has holes, but can be built on. I think the right coaching staff with the right attitude can do something with this roster. Not a guy that lets players walk all over him with no consequences. 

This doesn't need to be a 5 year rebuild. A good coach and his staff find ways to win, look at the Vikings. Their GM hasn't exactly been knocking it out of the park but over time it's come together and once Zimmer got there things turned around. Same with the Jags this year. Been bottom feeders for past 5 years, same GM stays but new Coach and Couglin overlooks things and hey! what do you know, they're not so bad. Rams too. 

Too many examples of where coaching and culture matters. Bowles isn't it. I don't even think drafting a top QB with Bowles will inject life into this team. 

The new drafted QB can play patty cake with Hack next year on the sidelines because YOU Know McClown will be back next year as the starter. I can see it now, press conference, Mac putting his arm around McClown, a 2 year contract worth 15 mil, tears streaming down McClown’s face, Bowles on the side nodding in approval with that nincompoop look of his. The  Goddamn Jets.

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Warfish

Warfish

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

You could say the same thing about John Idzik. Rex was forced upon him, and Idzik had no control over him because the owner had soft spot for him.

Yes.  You could argue that.

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

However Idzik deserved to be fired.

Yes, he did deserve to be fired.

2 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

Mac hasn't been that much better.

While I am no Macc fan, I simply do not agree with this claim.

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nyjunc

nyjunc

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, section314 said:

Feel exactly the same way. I think this disaster of an effort yesterday may have sealed his fate. Only question is....if Macc stays, does Chris/Woody let him pick the coach? And have said coach report to him?

I will be shocked if we let him go barring anything crazy happening over the last 3 games.

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sourceworx

sourceworx

Posted
Posted
Just now, Warfish said:

Yes.  You could argue that.

Yes, he did deserve to be fired.

While I am no Macc fan, I simply do not agree with this claim.

How has Mac been better? The receivers are better than expected, and bringing back Demario Davis turned out to be a good move.

Other than that what has he really done?

- The O-Line stinks. Maybe that can be quickly fixed by replacing the JAG playing Center, but right now they suck.
- Our top two RBs are 32 and 29 years-old.
- The defense is horrible despite the amount of draft capital spent on it. No pass rush, and the corners are garbage. 
- Most important, the two QBs Macc drafted aren't in the same stratosphere as a journeyman playing for his 8th team.

If this were his first year, then I'd be OK with how things are looking. But it's his third. We should be much further along at this point. 

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree with you on how bad Bowles is, but Macc is at least as bad. He just hides it better because he goes for high-floor draft picks early, instead of those with a high ceiling that actually make the team noticeably better. Those home run players are the types a team needs, and he's been doing the equivalent of putting a singles hitter batting cleanup.

Your take on Macc's "biggest rap" is also not correct for two huge reasons.

Reason #1, Watson isn't remotely the only FQB he's passed on. He's at least the 4th (5th if you include/count Dak): Cousins was available in '16 instead of trading for Fitz, trading up to draft Petty, which then leads to further future additional investment in the position (this ended up being re-upping Fitz and drafting Hackenberg, and then whatever we do next year as well). That's just year 1. Then year 2 he turned down a trade-up to #1 overall (which would have simultaneously rid us of the overpriced and wholly unnecessary - and almost immediately regretted - Mo extension), instead settling for Fitz and Hackenberg. Follow that up by paying $6m for McCown (never mind how lucky he got that McCown's career year made it look so much less stupid) which was both double the next-highest bid and also was a poor fit for a HC who has a too-wide comfort zone with old never-was QBs. Passing up on Watson for a goddamn safety is merely the cherry on top of his dookie sundae.

Reason #2 that's not correct on his rap is the team is not merely a QB away (as McCown has shown by playing better than one would reasonably expect any rookie QB to perform). Improvements are desired or desperately needed at QB, RB, go-to WR, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT (for all the overrating of Shell that fans do), DE (after cutting Mo), NT, edge rusher, CB1, CB2, and NB. You could make the argument for ASJ or Claiborne, but neither is under contract with the Jets for next year, and each would be foolish to forgo FA bidding unless Macc way overshoots with each of them like he did with Winters a year prior. Also neither is so freaking good anyway. Claiborne is ok, and would probably look better if we had a consistent pass rush, and ASJ has trouble catching a football cleanly without bobbling or outright dropping. Complain about the refs' calls all you want; if he catches them all cleanly there's nothing to get screwed over.

So you're half-right: they both need to go.

What? lol. Cousins was available? When? He turned down a trade for the #1 pick? Link?

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bostonmajet

bostonmajet

Posted
Posted

You aren't a fall guy if you are a significant part of the problem...

 

As for Mac, has he been magnificent, certainly not. But, consider that mess that he inherited.

Mike T sacrificed depth for a shot. It almost worked for 2 years, but in the end it, after a clown season or two, it left the team without any depth and bereft of any young talent. The team was in trouble at that point. Next, Idzik did his best to make the team worse while wasting a ton of picks.

To me, Mac's biggest mistake was trying to win while rebuilding. It almost worked. The problem is that the winning worked too well and people forgot how bad the team was. He burned money (he needed to), but fortunately spent it in a way so we have it to spend again. Has he whiffed on picks? Absolutely. Was it a mistake to draft Hack as high as he did? YES. Was it a mistake to pass on Watson, Probably (too early to tell really).

Consider how bad the team was... safeties (joke - no depth), TE (none), LB (Harris was old - no depth), CBs (joke - no depth), WRs (joke - no depth), OL (old, brick and mangold good - no depth), qb (joke), DL (good but with 2 trouble makers).

Now we have safeties (and depth), one good CB with injury history and some okay depth, LBs are better okay depth, TE promising with some depth, WR okay with plenty of depth, DL okay (not great) - little depth, OL crap, QB crap.

He has added a lot of pieces most of them good. The team instead of being one of the oldest is very young. The turn around has been pretty good. A car starts racing down hill and accelerating out of control, it takes a lot of work to slow the car down and turn it around. After much effort the car is now heading uphill slowly - this is a huge improvement, but when you look it is further down hill then when you started breaking. If you just look at position, you can't tell how much progress has been made. As he fixed certain parts, the team just kept getting older. The talent has bottomed out and is now starting to improve.

Is it enough? enough to keep his job, I don't know. Has he failed to get us a QB, ABSOLUTELY. Truth is, many teams have that problem. People used to call Elway a genius, he over-drafted Lynch and now has a young JAG running the team. 

Mac has to improve the OL. He has to find us a franchise QB. If he can't make improvements this off-season, he needs to be gone. He should pay for a youngish LB who can set the edge and pass rush. We need some veteran CBs (until we can build with the draft), and we need some stop-gaps at OL and we need to draft heavily there. We NEED a QB. 

He has traded pretty well. He has found us some GEMs in FA; this needs to continue. He needs to get rid of Mo (hopefully a trade - but we will need to eat much of his contract). His biggest problem this year is that the team is doing too well to draft high, but I think we can still draft the future QB.

As for 'I play hurt vets over rookies' Bowles (consider Forte's playing time), you can't be a scapegoat or fall-guy if you half of the  problem....

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

Posted
Posted

I can't wait until the Jets keep Macc and Bowles. I am not a fan of Bowles, but what's left of this board this year deserves another year of Bowles. Just a bunch of whiney little brats who don't understand what a rebuild looks like and have no patience. 

We will have a high 1st round pick (not as high as I wanted as I was calling for the Suck for Sam for longer than just about anyone here) 2 second round picks (which can be used to trade up) and tons of cap space. We have some nice pieces on offense (Anderson/Kearse/Enunwa/ASJ..maybe Leggett/Hansen/Stewart/Mcguire), nice pieces on defense (Adams/Maye/Williams/Lee/Jenkins/Davis...and some other developmental kids). 

This offseason we will be going after a Cousins or using a top 10 draft pick (via a trade up) to take a QB. The cap space will be used to build up the Oline and fill a couple of other holes and we can be in position to win 10 games next year  (with Cousins for sure and possibly with one of the highly rated QB prospects) 

Losses like yesterday bring out the worst in many posters.  But the reality is that we are headed in the right direction with Macc. Bowles, well, I am not a fan, but I am not a fan  of Tomlin and a bunch of other HCs that win thanks to talented rosters.

Obviously, if Macc fails on his task of finding a franchise QB heading into next year he will be gone. 

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JetBlue

JetBlue

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

What this guy did at the end of the first half with about 3:00 left was Pee -Wee league bad. If you are down 10-0 obviously you are still in the game so on 2nd down Bowles accepts a penalty to make it 2nd and 15 rather than letting it go to 3rd and 10 and giving the defense a chance for a stop to get the ball back to the offense. On top of that he did not bother to use one of his 3 time outs . The Camera panned to Bowles standing there like a complete idiot with Trent Green in the booth saying "why does Boles not use one of his 3 timeouts ??? Then if that was not bad enough he lets the Bronco's line up for a field goal and run out even more time before the attempt. We should have got the ball back with about 1:15 left on the clock but in Bowles world we got the ball back with 32 seconds and still 3 time outs. 

I'm sorry but this kind of coaching is totally inexcusable. It was amazing enough we still had the 3 Time outs since Bowles and Company are masters at making bad Challenges and Using time outs on 2nd and 1 but this time it was just one of the worst coaching performances I have ever seen as a Jets fan. This was also the worst game I have seen in years as well. This team was not prepared to play a professional football game.

Now This IDIOT has the challenge of playing his 2 young QB's and IMHO the choice should be easy, it needs to be Hackenberg in the last 3 games so we can at least get a real look at the kid. Petty had his shot last year and now its time to see if we wasted our second round pick a few years ago and see how this kid reacts under pressure in a real football game. At that stage we can compare the results of the 2 kids in live game action to see who should actually stick with this team next year and into the future and who should open up a roster spot. 

I really have nothing to add;  it was aggravating to watch.

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chirorob

chirorob

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes.  You could argue that.

Yes, he did deserve to be fired.

While I am no Macc fan, I simply do not agree with this claim.

Mac has been better than Idzik, but no crap, I would have been.   For real

Mac's big FA signings were all busts.   After cuts, we have had 30 million in dead cap space between this year and next year.   That's all on Mac.  His 3 biggest signings were Revis (bust), Mo (bust), and Skrine (bust)

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

Posted
Posted

Mac sucks harder than Bowles.  But I think If Mac was good at his job, Bowles would make him look bad the way he manages his roster and players.

So the answer is; fire them both.  Which mean the Jets will do the exact opposite because they’re the Jets.

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ASH1962

ASH1962

Posted
Posted

Not one thing to disagree with in the OP - 100% fact. I could not watch that crap yesterday, as soon as it was 10-0 I went away. I too will not watch anymore Jet games until we are rid of the moron, and will as well, check in for the draft and off season, but never again will I give my blood, guts, emotions, waste my time, or give anything else to this team until such time as we get competent football coaching on the field. This infatuation with mediocrity and acceptance of losing is not in my nature and I will never EVER accept the absolute crap that we have witnessed over the past 3 seasons.

Bowltite accepts losing, in fact, yesterday he advocated losing and that was the absolute last straw for me.

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BurnleyJet

BurnleyJet

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't agree.

I don't fire a GM who:

A. Didn't pick his Coach, was forced to take a bad coach in Bowles.

B. Didn't control his Coach, Bowles reported to Ownership, not Macc.

I also do not believe overall talent is the primary issue of this team.

Are we the most talented?  Lol, no, but we're MUCH closer to midline than to the bottom IMO.

Have we made a few bad picks (Hack, Lee)?  Yes.  The Hack one is especially bad in hindsight.  But we've also made some very good deals and pickups too.

But overall, we're not untalented or poorly managed from the GM/Player Personel position.  

Where we are VERY poorly managed is at Head Coach.

I fire Bowles, and I let Macc hire HIS Head Coach and draft HIS QB of the future this cycel, despite my doubts about him.

In three seasons (2018-2020) if we're still here.....then the entire House gets cleaned.

But not before then.  Firing a GM because the Coach you (ownership) forced on him and didn't have report him is just not right.

This guy gets it.

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

How has Mac been better? The receivers are better than expected, and bringing back Demario Davis turned out to be a good move.

Other than that what has he really done?

- The O-Line stinks. Maybe that can be quickly fixed by replacing the JAG playing Center, but right now they suck.
- Our top two RBs are 32 and 29 years-old.
- The defense is horrible despite the amount of draft capital spent on it. No pass rush, and the corners are garbage. 
- Most important, the two QBs Macc drafted aren't in the same stratosphere as a journeyman playing for his 8th team.

If this were his first year, then I'd be OK with how things are looking. But it's his third. We should be much further along at this point. 

Macagnan is just as bad as Idzik.  Anyone who disagrees is an idiot

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I don't agree.

I don't fire a GM who:

A. Didn't pick his Coach, was forced to take a bad coach in Bowles.

B. Didn't control his Coach, Bowles reported to Ownership, not Macc.

I also do not believe overall talent is the primary issue of this team.

Are we the most talented?  Lol, no, but we're MUCH closer to midline than to the bottom IMO.

Have we made a few bad picks (Hack, Lee)?  Yes.  The Hack one is especially bad in hindsight.  But we've also made some very good deals and pickups too.

But overall, we're not untalented or poorly managed from the GM/Player Personel position.  

Where we are VERY poorly managed is at Head Coach.

I fire Bowles, and I let Macc hire HIS Head Coach and draft HIS QB of the future this cycel, despite my doubts about him.

In three seasons (2018-2020) if we're still here.....then the entire House gets cleaned.

But not before then.  Firing a GM because the Coach you (ownership) forced on him and didn't have report him is just not right.

Idzik didn’t pick Rex should he also have gotten an extension?

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BurnleyJet

BurnleyJet

Posted
Posted
Just now, Philc1 said:

Macagnan is just as bad as Idzik.  Anyone who disagrees is an idiot

No he isn't, no where near, his main knock is Hack who he over drafted. So we blow a second rounder, the Jets do that every year.

I will see who he picks in the Draft next year, and it isn't anything but a QB and "Anyone who disagrees is an idiot".

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

It's very simple to me. Macc gets this draft to try and fix the QB situation. If he can't he's gone. Period. End of story.

Bowles is a bit more shady because of yesterday

Macc already has demonstrated 0 ability to assess the quarterback position:

 

Fitz 

Petty

hackentard

 McCown 

Tom Savage (with Houston)

Tried to trade for Siemian

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, BurnleyJet said:

No he isn't, no where near, his main knock is Hack who he over drafted. So we blow a second rounder, the Jets do that every year.

I will see who he picks in the Draft next year, and it isn't anything but a QB and "Anyone who disagrees is an idiot".

What about Devin Smith? Ardarius Stewart? Jenkins? Mauldin? That 190lb problem child ILB Darron Lee

 

Even precious Leonard Williams isn’t that great

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The Crusher

The Crusher

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Mac sucks harder than Bowles.  But I think If Mac was good at his job, Bowles would make him look bad the way he manages his roster and players.

So the answer is; fire them both.  Which mean the Jets will do the exact opposite because they’re the Jets.

Its like we are watching a foreign movie but the story doesn't fit the close captions.

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