Complaints about Todd Bowles thread: MERGED

[UnitedWhofans]

You know next week they are getting their ass kicked in New Orleans. Now the question will be will it be mainly from lack of talent or lack of effort. 

[JohnnyLV]

The unknown about Mac is how much influence and power Bowles exerts over drafting. Does Bowles control the first pick? He might. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

You aren't a fall guy if you are a significant part of the problem...

 

As for Mac, has he been magnificent, certainly not. But, consider that mess that he inherited.

Mike T sacrificed depth for a shot. It almost worked for 2 years, but in the end it, after a clown season or two, it left the team without any depth and bereft of any young talent. The team was in trouble at that point. Next, Idzik did his best to make the team worse while wasting a ton of picks.

To me, Mac's biggest mistake was trying to win while rebuilding. It almost worked. The problem is that the winning worked too well and people forgot how bad the team was. He burned money (he needed to), but fortunately spent it in a way so we have it to spend again. Has he whiffed on picks? Absolutely. Was it a mistake to draft Hack as high as he did? YES. Was it a mistake to pass on Watson, Probably (too early to tell really).

Consider how bad the team was... safeties (joke - no depth), TE (none), LB (Harris was old - no depth), CBs (joke - no depth), WRs (joke - no depth), OL (old, brick and mangold good - no depth), qb (joke), DL (good but with 2 trouble makers).

Now we have safeties (and depth), one good CB with injury history and some okay depth, LBs are better okay depth, TE promising with some depth, WR okay with plenty of depth, DL okay (not great) - little depth, OL crap, QB crap.

He has added a lot of pieces most of them good. The team instead of being one of the oldest is very young. The turn around has been pretty good. A car starts racing down hill and accelerating out of control, it takes a lot of work to slow the car down and turn it around. After much effort the car is now heading uphill slowly - this is a huge improvement, but when you look it is further down hill then when you started breaking. If you just look at position, you can't tell how much progress has been made. As he fixed certain parts, the team just kept getting older. The talent has bottomed out and is now starting to improve.

Is it enough? enough to keep his job, I don't know. Has he failed to get us a QB, ABSOLUTELY. Truth is, many teams have that problem. People used to call Elway a genius, he over-drafted Lynch and now has a young JAG running the team. 

Mac has to improve the OL. He has to find us a franchise QB. If he can't make improvements this off-season, he needs to be gone. He should pay for a youngish LB who can set the edge and pass rush. We need some veteran CBs (until we can build with the draft), and we need some stop-gaps at OL and we need to draft heavily there. We NEED a QB. 

He has traded pretty well. He has found us some GEMs in FA; this needs to continue. He needs to get rid of Mo (hopefully a trade - but we will need to eat much of his contract). His biggest problem this year is that the team is doing too well to draft high, but I think we can still draft the future QB.

As for 'I play hurt vets over rookies' Bowles (consider Forte's playing time), you can't be a scapegoat or fall-guy if you half of the  problem....

There is so much here that is so outright incorrect

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

You know next week they are getting their ass kicked in New Orleans. Now the question will be will it be mainly from lack of talent or lack of effort. 

I have Brees & Kamara in my fantasy playoff. Jets...on the road...no pass rush...vs Rogers & Bowles? after Saints got beat last week after losing Kamara.  I love the Jets, but I hate Bowles with a passion & id rather get a higher draft pick now & win some fantasy football money. Bowles thought KC had weapons?

Brees- Ingram- Kamara- Thomas- ouch! 44-10 and I'm being generous giving the Jets 10 points believe me.

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Agree with you on how bad Bowles is, but Macc is at least as bad. He just hides it better because he goes for high-floor draft picks early, instead of those with a high ceiling that actually make the team noticeably better. Those home run players are the types a team needs, and he's been doing the equivalent of putting a singles hitter batting cleanup.

Your take on Macc's "biggest rap" is also not correct for two huge reasons.

Reason #1, Watson isn't remotely the only FQB he's passed on. He's at least the 4th (5th if you include/count Dak): Cousins was available in '16 instead of trading for Fitz, trading up to draft Petty, which then leads to further future additional investment in the position (this ended up being re-upping Fitz and drafting Hackenberg, and then whatever we do next year as well). That's just year 1. Then year 2 he turned down a trade-up to #1 overall (which would have simultaneously rid us of the overpriced and wholly unnecessary - and almost immediately regretted - Mo extension), instead settling for Fitz and Hackenberg. Follow that up by paying $6m for McCown (never mind how lucky he got that McCown's career year made it look so much less stupid) which was both double the next-highest bid and also was a poor fit for a HC who has a too-wide comfort zone with old never-was QBs. Passing up on Watson for a goddamn safety is merely the cherry on top of his dookie sundae.

Reason #2 that's not correct on his rap is the team is not merely a QB away (as McCown has shown by playing better than one would reasonably expect any rookie QB to perform). Improvements are desired or desperately needed at QB, RB, go-to WR, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT (for all the overrating of Shell that fans do), DE (after cutting Mo), NT, edge rusher, CB1, CB2, and NB. You could make the argument for ASJ or Claiborne, but neither is under contract with the Jets for next year, and each would be foolish to forgo FA bidding unless Macc way overshoots with each of them like he did with Winters a year prior. Also neither is so freaking good anyway. Claiborne is ok, and would probably look better if we had a consistent pass rush, and ASJ has trouble catching a football cleanly without bobbling or outright dropping. Complain about the refs' calls all you want; if he catches them all cleanly there's nothing to get screwed over.

So you're half-right: they both need to go.

Sperm the owner himself said they are on the same level meaning Bowles and Macc. With the picks Macc has made its obvious to me the HC has a big say in who gets drafted.  Either way Bowles seems to have a big say in filling roster holes or what holes he feels need to be filled Im pretty sure though that Macc is not making dumb calls on the sidelines some of which I learned in church leagues and High school football.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Sperm the owner himself said they are on the same level meaning Bowles and Macc. With the picks Macc has made its obvious to me the HC has a big say in who gets drafted.  Either way Bowles seems to have a big say in filling roster holes or what holes he feels need to be filled Im pretty sure though that Macc is not making dumb calls on the sidelines some of which I learned in church leagues and High school football.

Every HC is asked to weigh in on draft picks and free agents; in that sense, they all have a big say in who gets drafted. Ultimately the final decision rests with Maccagnan alone. Just like there's a high probability Bowles was a big reason the team ended up with Robbie Anderson (at the time they signed him, we had 4 Temple alumni - not counting Bowles himself - which was easily the most in the NFL). That's a bit much to write off as pure coincidence, so that door swings both ways.

Even still, if you think Bowles was happy with the shell of a pro team he was handed this year I don't know what to say. 

As for Bowles as a HC, I'm not going to endeavor into defending the indefensible. I'm just not also scapegoating him for most of Maccagnan's errors either, while also giving Macc full credit for anything that didn't flop outright, which is what I see a lot of going on.

[Smashmouth]

17 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Every HC is asked to weigh in on draft picks and free agents; in that sense, they all have a big say in who gets drafted. Ultimately the final decision rests with Maccagnan alone. Just like there's a high probability Bowles was a big reason the team ended up with Robbie Anderson (at the time they signed him, we had 4 Temple alumni - not counting Bowles himself - which was easily the most in the NFL). So that door swings both ways.

Even still, if you think Bowles was happy with the shell of a pro team he was handed this year I don't know what to say. 

As for Bowles as a HC, I'm not going to endeavor into defending the indefensible. I'm just not also scapegoating him for most of Maccagnan's errors either, while also giving Macc full credit for anything that didn't flop outright, which is what I see a lot of going on.

well when you call it a shell of a team I'm pretty sure everyone was on board with an all out rebuild including Bowles after the locker room debacle of last year it seemed obvious most of the Vets needed needed the Boot. I think some of the young kids have played well and I also think this team is on a good path now.

[freestater]

10 hours ago, BigO said:

Half time adjustment- just punt as soon as you get the ball on first down. Spare us the torture. 

You could tell he wanted to do that as soon as Petty took the field.

[Savage69]

23 hours ago, billo83 said:

I agree. If Bowles isn't fired after this game,  I think it's time for an all out boycott of J&J products and banners calling for the sale of the team. Where are the fire Idzyk guys?

 Of Bobby Johnson's five children (Woody and his siblings), none has ever worked for Johnson & Johnson, the family's business, which Bobby's grandfather co-founded. This, according to a 2013 Daily Beast story, which also noted Bobby is the last Johnson family member to work for the business. He died in 1970. 

[johnnyjet]

I’ll take Morton as the head coach over Bowles and fire kacy.  Can’t be worse.  Todd is clueless.  Someone tell him ya can’t bank time outs. Jerk.  

[Bugg]

Well, Jack DelRio is still an NFL head coach, so...

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

well when you call it a shell of a team I'm pretty sure everyone was on board with an all out rebuild including Bowles after the locker room debacle of last year it seemed obvious most of the Vets needed needed the Boot. I think some of the young kids have played well and I also think this team is on a good path now.

Yeah Bowles sounded really happy by the time the last of the veterans were cut in June. 

Every HC in the league wished they had the Jets' roster back then and right now. We've been the envy of the league. 

This isn't a defense of Bowles; rather it's clear that neither of them is good at this. Both were over-promoted, because that's the only type of person who was willing to come here. 

Still doesn't mean you stop trying, and hope we just get lucky in hiring a competent person for each job.

[CanadienJetsFan]

And the knives are out.

[Sperm Edwards]

48 minutes ago, johnnyjet said:

I’ll take Morton as the head coach over Bowles and fire kacy.  Can’t be worse.  Todd is clueless.  Someone tell him ya can’t bank time outs. Jerk.  

Another HC with limited coordinator experience at the NFL level and no head coaching experience at any level.

If it hasn't worked the past 4 times in a row, let's try it again. 5 times a charm -- isn't that how the expression goes?

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

And the knives are out.

The Jets bring a balloon to a knife fight

[Joejet]

8 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

 

Why does it have to be one or the other?  Can’t it be both?

[Bugg]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

I have Brees & Kamara in my fantasy playoff. Jets...on the road...no pass rush...vs Rogers & Bowles? after Saints got beat last week after losing Kamara.  I love the Jets, but I hate Bowles with a passion & id rather get a higher draft pick now & win some fantasy football money. Bowles thought KC had weapons?

Brees- Ingram- Kamara- Thomas- ouch! 44-10 and I'm being generous giving the Jets 10 points believe me.

Worse, imagine Coach Westhoff knows the Jets' personnel, scheme and tendencies better than the Jets themselves. 

[Mogglez]

9 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

 

Living up to the reputation he set as ThaDude.

Side Note: isn't circumventing a ban, ban-worthy??

[Mogglez]

15 minutes ago, Joejet said:

Why does it have to be one or the other?  Can’t it be both?

Calling him a troll would insinuate that he isn't this stupid and is just doing it for reactions.

He's just stupid.

[Mogglez]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Macc already has demonstrated 0 ability to assess the quarterback position:

 

Fitz 

Petty

hackentard

 McCown 

Tom Savage (with Houston)

Tried to trade for Siemian

Nice way to show that you are a special type of jerk-off.

[UnTypicalJET]

You know its not a surprise with me since I have been pointing out Bowles flaws since the middle of his first season here.
You either have a feel for the game or you don't I'm not sure you can ever develop that feel since most of these guys have been around football their entire lives and clock management is important on any level of the sport. I don't see some miracle happening to change Bowles direction when it comes to making decisions, hes just terrible

Pointing out flaws? Lmao, how do we know you know what your looking at? Smh. Are we to assume your John Madden or Pat Summerall?


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[UnTypicalJET]

for the first year of a rebuild this team is on the right track with young talent. I'm sorry you can't see that since you keep bringing it up but this team is on the right path and what we need is a good call at the QB position so we can continue to grow.
Macc made an attempt to win his first few years by bringing in some vets to make one more run with some of the good vets we had in place. It looked like it might have a chance in year one when we missed the playoffs by one game. We added a few more vets to make that one last run and we failed with a bunch of slacking vets who didn't seem to give a damn. At that point Macc and the Owner decided to move on from that pipe dream and start a re build which seems to be doing nicely with some young talent exceeding expectations.
Its easily explainable why we are in the position we are in and its not just about the GM its about what the owner of this team wanted when he arrived. The players sh*t the bed as did Fitz and now we have some promising young talent to build with.
Coaches and QB's win SB's and those will be the two toughest decisions moving forward no matter what any of us think 

You don’t have enough excuses for Mac to justify keeping him but canning Bowles. No way on this earth will he be retained but Bowles be fired the way this roster in key positions is lacking. Expectations were created not by the media but by personnel execs from other teams who do SCOUTING FOR A LIVING. So I trust their expertise in saying our roster is subpar and we’ve overachieved. Is Bowles goes then Mac surely goes!


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[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, UnTypicalJET said:

Is Bowles goes then Mac surely goes!

Mike Maccagnan did not choose Todd Bowles as his head coach he inherited him. 

[UnTypicalJET]

Really? How about the Tampa game? Raiders game? Bowles is pathetic

The Damn roster is pathetic!


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[UnTypicalJET]

You don't have to dislike Bowles in order to criticize him for this performance today. The way he coached the 2nd half was inexcusable. The team was running the clock out in the 4th quarter.

You have a QB who you know isn’t capable of doing anything but ballooning a 20-0 game to a 40 point game. What was he suppose to do, sling it around. The kid hadn’t had proper preparation to put him in that situation and that would have killed his ego even more considering he is the starter the Last three. You better run the ball and save yourself some embarrassment or y’all would have really talked then! Let’s face it. The Jets for most of the season have taken knives to gun fights. Yes a Anderson or Powell can do damage but not like a Von Miller or Aquib Talib! Smh


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[Philc1]

10 hours ago, The Crusher said:

This team is no better off now than it was then. Go look it up.

No need to look it up the proof is in the results we went 4-12 in 2014 and we are about to go 5-11 back2back seasons

 

Mac is a failure

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, chirorob said:

Which part of BETTER THAN IDZIK are you having trouble with?

He is better at drafting than Idzik.  That was the statement you disagreed with.   Not, "OMG best GM EVER!!"   Nope, just better than Idzik at drafting.

Exp.   I had massive diarhea (Idzik).   I took something, and now it's just kinda mushy and stinks (mac).   My new stink and soft crap is better than my disgusting marsh like crap. 

You Macc-lovers have 0 evidence just catch phrases of course he’s better than Idzik a der der

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, rangerous said:

the bottom line is bowles led the team to denver and they got their clocks cleaned.  this is the same bunch that beat kc the week before and has played pretty well the whole season.  the bowles launch clock has moved up a notch or two.  no excuses.

Bill Belichick couldn’t get this team to 8-8 and I think Bowles sucks

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

Calling him a troll would insinuate that he isn't this stupid and is just doing it for reactions.

He's just stupid.

Lol

[Philc1]

59 minutes ago, UnTypicalJET said:

The Damn roster is pathetic!


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Yes but the GM who built it should pick the next coaching staff and get a 4 year extension and free reign to draft a CB over a round 1 qb

[greenwave81]

13 hours ago, gEYno said:

But yeah, here's the thing.  I'm not saying it was the decision I'd have made, or the "right" one.  I'm saying in comparison to the fact that we have the 2nd worst offensive line in the NFL, and that was on display big time in 2 of the last 3 weeks, it's really not that big of a deal.

Wait a minute...wut?

We're playing the revered Josh McCown because he gives us the 'best chance to win' and coaching to hide our deficiencies/inequities?  With the supposed 'possible playoff spot' on the line?

Make a freakin' choice is all I ask...either play to win, and calling TO would have been the 'right' decision regardless of the outcome, or stop pretending.

 

[Maxman]

14 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Macc has brought in some good young talent, Bowles however can't even make obvious amature coaching decisions while standing on the sidelines clueless.

Sorry but If I had to compare the 2, Bowles is off the charts worse and its not even close. The reason this team is winning is due to the Fact John Morton had this offense playing at a level they should not have even been close too. Its the first time in years I have seen an OC actually able to scheme players wide open and in good mismatches, the first time since Charlie Weiss to be exact.

The Biggest rap on Macc is the inability to get a franchise QB in here and the only real mistake it seems he made was not drafting Watson but there were many people not so hot on Watson. I didn't have a problem with the reach on Hack in round 2 because the Kid does have all the physical talent to be great you just had to hope he had the mental ability which just so happens to be a gamble no matter what QB is available and that's been proven over time with early first round busts  outnumbering successes by a large margin.

How Macc handles this years FA market and draft will be what keeps him here or sends him packing. Honestly I would not spend much of the Money available until this team starts to win consistently then fill some Major holes to put us over the top in the next few years. However if the team has its sights set on one of the FA QB's namely Cousins then that will take a large chunk of the cap so the task will be difficult in how Macc proceeds. 

Either way this team wont win with Bowles making decisions like he did yesterday.

So John Morton has the offense playing at a level higher than the talent level Macc supplied. Todd Bowles hired John Morton. But somehow in this equation Bowles is worse than Macc. Interesting.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

Wait a minute...wut?

We're playing the revered Josh McCown because he gives us the 'best chance to win' and coaching to hide our deficiencies/inequities?  With the supposed 'possible playoff spot' on the line?

Make a freakin' choice is all I ask...either play to win, and calling TO would have been the 'right' decision regardless of the outcome, or stop pretending.

 

This teams strategy has always been to keep the game close and have a shot in the end.  Like it, or hate it, this fits that mold.  They played it safe there, hoping to avoid any further damage.  I'm not saying I agree, but it's not like there wasn't a plan.  Hyperbole is dumb.  This was a strategic choice that this time didn't work out, and fans don't really like.

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, UnTypicalJET said:

Pointing out flaws? Lmao, how do we know you know what your looking at? Smh. Are we to assume your John Madden or Pat Summerall?


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keep LYAO Im not sure which coach you are looking at but it's really easy to point out Bowles mistakes over the past 3 years. The problem is he keeps making the same mistakes. Trust me you don't need to be Madden or Summerall to know when a HC is garbage

[greenwave81]

11 minutes ago, Maxman said:

So John Morton has the offense playing at a level higher than the talent level Macc supplied. Todd Bowles hired John Morton. But somehow in this equation Bowles is worse than Macc. Interesting.

The fact that Bowles found Morton has no bearing on the premise of the argument that Bowles is a suboptimal HC.  Macc is an entirely different conversation.

Bowles also sticks with Kacy Rodgers...does he take no fault for that or the Defense in general?

You reward performance, and Morton has performed no matter who found him.