The real question - Have the Jets shown enough progress?

[Freemanm]

Earlier this season, Woody's brother Chris said that Bowles and Macc won't be judged this year on wins and losses, rather, on whether the team is getting better (quotes below). 

The question still stands. Has this team gotten better since the beginning of the season? Has any one made significant enough progress so that we can look at Bowles and say, "Wow, we might have only won five games, but the team definitely progressed under him." 

Can we say that, or is it safe to say that, despite legitimate progression by certain players, Bowles has to go?

On if he will judge Bowles on wins and losses this season…

No. Believe me, like any fan I like wins a lot more than losses, but that’s only part of the equation. The real way to judge this team and the people on it, me included, are we getting better?

On if he could foresee a situation where the team loses a lot of games and Bowles retains his job…

It’s not going to come down to games. It really won’t. It’s more about the play on the field. Are we getting better? Believe me, losses hurt deeply. I like wins a lot more, but it’s not going to be the sole or even a really important way for me to judge Todd or Mike.

[Kevin L]

IMO, the only player who has progressed is Robbie Anderson. Maybe Darron Lee, too.

Everyone else is either the same, or even taken a step back.

[peebag]

QB, OL, LBs, CBs, RBs are in desperate need of upgrade.

[MDL_JET]

Nope. They just continue to be average 

[rangerous]

the oline is really bad.  the question is if bowles has improved.  yesterday was a really bad outing.  they needed to play better and got their heads handed to them.

[joewilly12]

We are a mediocre football team that occasionally beats a good team and occasionally loses to a bad team, there is no consistency here on a good level. 

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

We are a mediocre football team that occasionally beats a good team and occasionally loses to a bad team, there is no consistency here on a good level. 

baring two or three you could say that about every team in the NFL

[Beerfish]

i love it when the coaches preach accountability and the never give up attitude and then simply give up during a game.

Yesterday was a degrading and pathetic display of not even trying, it was worse than kicking a fg vs the pats when we are down by 45 or whatever it was.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

i love it when the coaches preach accountability and the never give up attitude and then simply give up during a game.

Yesterday was a degrading and pathetic display of not even trying, it was worse than kicking a fg vs the pats when we are down by 45 or whatever it was.

[bostonmajet]

There are two questions here, has Mac done enough? has Bowles done enough?

IMO, Bowles has to go. In the beginning, I thought the team really turned the corner and was playing hard and smart for him, but his overly conservative approach, sitting on leads, playing for the FG or not too loose, his horrible time management gaffs, his lack of half-time adjustments (especially on D), and his mind-boggling preference of average or hurt vets over youth demonstrates that he hasn't learned enough to be a good (let alone great) HC. He won't make it here.

As for Mac, I think he inherited a mess. Not only did the team have little talent and no depth, but what talent it had was old with only a few years of productivity left. For example, the OL was okay/good, but with Mangold and Brick in their 30's it was only a question of time. It is hard or even impossible to replace an entire team over a few years, so I give Mac some benefit of the doubt as the team has gotten younger, with more talent, and significantly more depth. That being said, I am on the fence (leaning towards keeping him) for another year or so, but this offseason is critical for the OL and the QB position.

If I had to pick right now, I would say give Mac another year (at least - maybe a year extension or 2) and fire Bowles. In fact, I would have left him in Denver with Mo and a few others... I think the WR, QB, LB, and a few other coaches may still have value - not sure about Morton ... DC has to go.

[UnitedWhofans]

Have they progressed from last year? Yes. They have the same amount of wins as last year with a much younger team. and, at least on the surface, a better locker room

Throughout this year? I would say no. Other than Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins and Robbie Anderson.

 

[dbatesman]

BAD: after three seasons, the team is not appreciably better than the dumpster fire Idzik and Rex left behind

GOOD: we’re only in year one of a rebuild, so

[UnitedWhofans]

7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

BAD: after three seasons, the team is not appreciably better than the dumpster fire Idzik and Rex left behind

 

Oh I disagree. I think it is. It's watchable for the most part and not a circus

[nico002]

You guys are ridiculous.

im not a Bowles fan but before last week he was a legit coach of the year candidate. No one had had the jets winning more than 4 games, and we’ve been on the fringe of a GREAT season ignore not for close losses to NE, Car, alt- all legit contenders.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Freemanm said:

Earlier this season, Woody's brother Chris said that Bowles and Macc won't be judged this year on wins and losses, rather, on whether the team is getting better (quotes below). 

The question still stands. Has this team gotten better since the beginning of the season? Has any one made significant enough progress so that we can look at Bowles and say, "Wow, we might have only won five games, but the team definitely progressed under him." 

\

Losing McCown for the season will help clear the mist to reveal the truth about our struggling roster. No more highlight drives. We'll be waist deep in the the trenches of "3 and out"

[Beerfish]

5 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You guys are ridiculous.

im not a Bowles fan but before last week he was a legit coach of the year candidate. No one had had the jets winning more than 4 games, and we’ve been on the fringe of a GREAT season ignore not for close losses to NE, Car, alt- all legit contenders.

Only people who do not watch games and the team AT ALL would call him coty material.

[BCJet]

7 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You guys are ridiculous.

im not a Bowles fan but before last week he was a legit coach of the year candidate. No one had had the jets winning more than 4 games, and we’ve been on the fringe of a GREAT season ignore not for close losses to NE, Car, alt- all legit contenders.

So because the media, who for the most part couldnt evaluate an NFL roster if their life depended on it and each of whom has an agenda that drives their "reporting" speculates that the Jets have an atrocious roster and should only win 2 games.

The team then wins 5 games and the coach should be rewarded?

The problem with this organization is that the ownership set up Mac and Bowles on even levels, so Bowles hasnt had to be accountable to a single person with actual football knowledge since he came here.  Now the owner is overseas and turned the team over to another person with zero football knowledge on top of likely not having the authority to fire the HC without consulting his equally inept brother.  

Regardless of wins, Bowles has proven to have an undisciplined team that is absolutely terrible on the road, and that is 3 years running.  He hasnt improved his in-game management even a little bit, as evidenced by yesterdays indefensible non-TO, and plays a defense that at least to me, has no clear scheme in the defensive backfield, which is supposedly his forte.

Bowles has absolutely no reason or resume to continue being an NFL head coach, yet fortunately for him, we dont have anyone who can actually fire him.

[Jetmech]

You guys are ridiculous.
im not a Bowles fan but before last week he was a legit coach of the year candidate. No one had had the jets winning more than 4 games, and we’ve been on the fringe of a GREAT season ignore not for close losses to NE, Car, alt- all legit contenders.

This is true although this loss was typical SOJ. Ironically Bowles went out of the way to say McCown would start the remaining games only to end in a SOJ loss and injury.

Funny but some papers were stating this was a big game for the Jets and they folded badly. Not a good indicator for the remaining season.



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[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Jetmech said:

This is true although this loss was typical SOJ. Ironically Bowles went out of the way to say McCown would start the remaining games only to end in a SOJ loss and injury.

Funny but some papers were stating this was a big game for the Jets and they folded badly. Not a good indicator for the remaining season.



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I found it funny that Cimini said that the Jets are o the verge of losing control for the season. There's only 3 games left!

[JohnnyLV]

14 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You guys are ridiculous.

im not a Bowles fan but before last week he was a legit coach of the year candidate. No one had had the jets winning more than 4 games, and we’ve been on the fringe of a GREAT season ignore not for close losses to NE, Car, alt- all legit contenders.

Yeah but those predictions were bogus. We purged a lot of OLD "talent' which actually made us better this season than worse and we won 4 games last year. Bowles has in no way shown improvement or done a good job this year.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, johnnysd said:

Yeah but those predictions were bogus. We purged a lot of OLD "talent' which actually made us better this season than worse and we won 4 games last year. Bowles has in no way shown improvement or done a good job this year.

ANd that is the point that I'm trying to ascertain with my thread. Whether the predictions were bogus or not, they did better than people thought they would do. 

I think that it points to Bowles rather than Macc.

Bowles has done two good things this season. For the most part, the players have played hard for him. And he brought in John Morton

[The Crimson King]

Progress from last year?

Well they were certainly in more close games

Kinda like '77. A third straight 3-11 season but a more competitive team than the previously two years. Of course it didn't do them a lot of good as it would be 4 more years until the playoffs

[jmat321]

I am going to say no based on the fact that we have done NOTHING in terms of the most important position in football.  So say we bring Bowles back, w/o an extension.  In his last year, there is no incentive for his play a rookie QB, nor will the GM have the power to make him.  We extend Bowles, we're stuck.  Ideally, I'd like to axe everyone, but I'd be happy enough if Chris Johnson fired Bowles and let Mac pick his own HC.    

[#27TheDominator]

51 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

baring two or three you could say that about every team in the NFL

I can name 10 teams that don't say that.  Eagles, Pats, Steelers, Jags, Vikings, Panthers, Saints, Falcons, Rams, Seahawks.  Yes, those teams can fall on their face now and then, (Jags v Jets) but they are legitimate teams.  Parity means that on any given Sunday, any team can beat any team.  Even in that landscape the Jets are sub-standard.

4 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You guys are ridiculous.

im not a Bowles fan but before last week he was a legit coach of the year candidate. No one had had the jets winning more than 4 games, and we’ve been on the fringe of a GREAT season ignore not for close losses to NE, Car, alt- all legit contenders.

GREAT? Close losses?  They won 5 games.  One was in OT.  Only two were by more than one score.  They beat the Browns (who didn't have Josh Gordon) by three ******* points.  They are closer to 2 wins than 8.  You don't win COY for going 6-10. Sean McVay's agent will punch you in the mouth

[JustInFudge]

There has been no progression.  The team sucks something awful and there is zero talent at a single postion that matters.  

We are quickly moving into year 4 of a rebuild that had to be rebuilt again this year only they forgot to lay a foundation, again. 

[Stark]

Some of the players have shown improvement, but the HC has shown none. He makes the same mistakes, and has the same deficiencies he did his first season. This alone should be unacceptable. Zero growth from the HC = See you later Todd.

Also the fact that he still has not reigned in Wilkerson, can't seem to correct penalty issues, doesn't seem to have a plan and can't seem to get his "amazing, brilliant" Defense to play to an average level. For heaven's sake Defense is supposed to be his specialty... lol

 

FIRE BOWLES

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

ANd that is the point that I'm trying to ascertain with my thread. Whether the predictions were bogus or not, they did better than people thought they would do. 

I think that it points to Bowles rather than Macc.

Bowles has done two good things this season. For the most part, the players have played hard for him. And he brought in John Morton

A game with 100 yards total offense and 6 first downs seems to be a strange time to pat the guy on the back for his OC selection.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

A game with 100 yards total offense and 6 first downs seems to be a strange time to pat the guy on the back for his OC selection.

I agree. Not the best week to do it, but overall he;s done a solid job.

[Jetmech]

I found it funny that Cimini said that the Jets are o the verge of losing control for the season. There's only 3 games left!

I know like it matters

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[JohnnyLV]

8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

ANd that is the point that I'm trying to ascertain with my thread. Whether the predictions were bogus or not, they did better than people thought they would do. 

I think that it points to Bowles rather than Macc.

Bowles has done two good things this season. For the most part, the players have played hard for him. And he brought in John Morton

They did better than the media agenda by-line, but our roster WAS improved (maybe not in the areas it should have been) and we did have an easier schedule. Schedule DOES matter in the NFL.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, johnnysd said:

They did better than the media agenda by-line, but our roster WAS improved (maybe not in the areas it should have been) and we did have an easier schedule. Schedule DOES matter in the NFL.

3 of our 5 wins are against (potential) playoff teams: KC, Buffalo, and Jacksonville

This is not like 2015 where they only beat 1 team with a winning record

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

3 of our 5 wins are against (potential) playoff teams: KC, Buffalo, and Jacksonville

This is not like 2015 where they only beat 1 team with a winning record

Only 1 of those teams is more than 1 game over .500.  By the end of the year, it is quite possible that they only beat 1 team with a winning record. 

[Freemanm]

3 hours ago, jmat321 said:

I am going to say no based on the fact that we have done NOTHING in terms of the most important position in football.  So say we bring Bowles back, w/o an extension.  In his last year, there is no incentive for his play a rookie QB, nor will the GM have the power to make him.  We extend Bowles, we're stuck.  Ideally, I'd like to axe everyone, but I'd be happy enough if Chris Johnson fired Bowles and let Mac pick his own HC.    

I'd say we should bring back Eric Mangini but I doubt he'd want to come back after the screw job Woody pulled on him

[Patriot Killa]

I don’t think he’s showed enough. The league and media has already...and I find that comical because they are still basing the bar off the same offseason expectations. OH MY.. 5 wins instead of 2. KEEP BOWLES. Wtf? Burn this bitch to the ground. He makes terrible in game decisions..literally god awful in game decisions..like to the point where you have to question if he legitimately knows where he is and what he does for a living.

[Jetmech]

Some of the players have shown improvement, but the HC has shown none. He makes the same mistakes, and has the same deficiencies he did his first season. This alone should be unacceptable. Zero growth from the HC = See you later Todd.
Also the fact that he still has not reigned in Wilkerson, can't seem to correct penalty issues, doesn't seem to have a plan and can't seem to get his "amazing, brilliant" Defense to play to an average level. For heaven's sake Defense is supposed to be his specialty... lol
 
FIRE BOWLES

The DL has been overrated since Rex. No pass rush with this damn 3-4 and whatever hybrid defense.

I posted this defense has sucked for a few years, yeah an average 2015? With this "amazing" DL there are no excuses.

All those top picks with nothing to show for!

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