Would you be okay if Mac doubled down on QB's in the draft?

[Ex-Rex]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I AM against trading up and selling a generation of picks to get one of the vastly over-hyped "top 2" of Darnold/Rosen. 

Vastly overhyped my Aunt Patootie. These two are the real deal but Cleveland is not about to blow taking a franchise QB again. Not with John Dorsey at the helm and the G-Men would rather bite off their own tongues that to give the Jets at top flight QB. I have seen several games played by these two and vastly overhyped is NOT words I would use to describe them. Wow, would be.

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Vastly overhyped my Aunt Patootie. These two are the real deal but Cleveland is not about to blow taking a franchise QB again. Not with John Dorsey at the helm and the G-Men would rather bite off their own tongues that to give the Jets at top flight QB. I have seen several games played by these two and vastly overhyped is NOT words I would use to describe them. Wow, would be.

Do you need a tissue for those tears?

And yes, Darnold is absolutely over hyped for his mediocre level of play and performance. 

He is the definition of "Measurables and potential" over performance.

Like most USC QB's before him.

[JustInFudge]

58 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I get the logic here, but let’s be honest: blind dumb luck is the only way these cretins are ever getting ahold of a QB. If we had any sense we’d draft one in every single round.

I was just about to say, I'm good with it in every single round just because I think the only way Mac finds a QB is to just luck into one.  The problem is, that big board is the bible and you can not deviate for it.  So, get ready for Ward or Key.  It's all but guaranteed. 

 

[ChuckkieB]

No.  I am crossing my fingers and toes that the Jets move up in the first round to grab whatever QB they like best and whoever it is turns out to be proves to be legit and a year one (hopefully day 1) starter.  They can use their other picks more wisely to fill in as many remaining holes as possible.

[BigRy56]

By any means necessary. I don't care if we take a quarterback in every round of the draft this year. If we decide Cousins is our guy, then fine. But if we go in to the draft with Petty and Hackenberg under contract then we better pull the trigger on the best QB available.

[freestater]

2 hours ago, kelly said:

 

 

[freestater]

Double post

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I get the logic here, but let’s be honest: blind dumb luck is the only way these cretins are ever getting ahold of a QB. If we had any sense we’d draft one in every single round.

The theory is sound, but the end result would be a few summers of Todd Bowles explaining why Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer deserve the majority of the reps over Josh Allen and Luke Falk.

[JetFaninMI]

I would settle with just getting one right. Considering who will be making the decision on who is drafted I am not optimistic that they can get that right.

[Paradis]

Hard no. We'll have very little draft currency after trading up (which we'll have to)..

In a dream world, i guess you could in rnd 5 or 6, but why? Who the hell is really there? Thats like saying "we're pretty sure #1 is the guy... but he might suck. In that case, we're going to burn a late pick on... Long Shot Malloy, from Citadel. 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Even if Mayfield stinks just look at our last two first round picks and see what we are risking? Zero risk and the potential to get our guy for next 10-17 years. Ride Cousins hard until Baker is ready and you may still get a 1-2 for Cousins in a couple years. Easy peasy. 

Other than the 27 years figure (or typo), this is my feeling as well.

A QB's career is so long (health permitting) it's well worth it if you do find the right one. If the team is a little weaker because it's without a couple extra high draft picks in the short term, so be it. My feeling is we're not serious SB contenders with the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown anyway, and an upgrade at safety or ILB is not almost as good because of BAP/BPA stupidity.

You play that game when you have filled the positions that you can't get via free agency, and even then you still give positional importance and need major points in ranking.

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Even if Mayfield stinks just look at our last two first round picks and see what we are risking? Zero risk amd the potential to get our guy for next 10-27 years. Ride Cousins hard until Baker is ready and you may still get a 1-2 for Cousins in a couple years. Easy peasy. 

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Other than the 27 years figure (or typo), this is my feeling as well.

A QB's career is so long (health permitting) it's well worth it if you do find the right one. If the team is a little weaker because it's without a couple extra high draft picks in the short term, so be it. My feeling is we're not serious SB contenders with the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown anyway, and an upgrade at safety or ILB is not almost as good because of BAP/BPA stupidity.

You play that game when you have filled the positions that you can't get via free agency, and even then you still give positional importance and need major points in ranking.

 

I'm going to argue this till the Cows come home because it's nonsensical and frankly, madden-esque level of ignorance. 

-How do you plan to "land" a perennial underachiever who wants 25 million a year -- IN NEW YORK -- while also telling his agent you're going to draft a QB at the top of RND 1

-How do even plan to land cousins when you're not drafting weapons and OLINE for him?

-What kind of Lockerroom are you setting yourself up for?

-Cousins has a bad game and the stadium is calling for Mayfield. What fcking Coaching staff is going to sign off for that life for the next 1-2 years.

 

You two are smarter than this.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Paradis said:

 

I'm going to argue this till the Cows come home because it's nonsensical and frankly, madden-esque level of ignorance. 

-How do you plan to "land" a perennial underachiever who wants 25 million a year -- IN NEW YORK -- while also telling his agent you're going to draft a QB at the top of RND 1

-How do even plan to land cousins when you're not drafting weapons and OLINE for him?

-What kind of Lockerroom are you setting yourself up for?

-Cousins has a bad game and the stadium is calling for Mayfield. What fcking Coaching staff is going to sign off for that life for the next 1-2 years.

 

You two are smarter than this.

I'm talking about using multiple picks on a QB, not Cousins.

[Paradis]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm talking about using multiple picks on a QB, not Cousins.

There'd have to be someone special that slid till the late rounds for that to be even something to entertain -- and then at that point, it's a nonstory. Just depth. 

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

I'm going to argue this till the Cows come home because it's nonsensical and frankly, madden-esque level of ignorance. 

-How do you plan to "land" a perennial underachiever who wants 25 million a year -- IN NEW YORK -- while also telling his agent you're going to draft a QB at the top of RND 1

-How do even plan to land cousins when you're not drafting weapons and OLINE for him?

-What kind of Lockerroom are you setting yourself up for?

-Cousins has a bad game and the stadium is calling for Mayfield. What fcking Coaching staff is going to sign off for that life for the next 1-2 years.

 

You two are smarter than this.

Do I get to eat said cows once they show up? Yes? Yes the coaching staff will hate to have a young high pick waiting to take the reigns once Cousins starts to decline. It worked Green Bay with Favre and Rodgers.  Not if you ask Favre of course. I could give a shit how Cousins feel about it.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

There'd have to be someone special that slid till the late rounds for that to be even something to entertain -- and then at that point, it's a nonstory. Just depth. 

RGIII and Cousins draft worked out pretty well.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Paradis said:

There'd have to be someone special that slid till the late rounds for that to be even something to entertain -- and then at that point, it's a nonstory. Just depth. 

It's flinging mud against the wall, because the premise of the thread said the same person is still evaluating the QB talent. He had access to adding Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Hackenberg, Dak, Watson. His decision was to re-up Fitz, then draft Hackenberg, then sign McCown.

Throwing darts blindfolded at a wall of QB options would yield results that are no worse, and as likely as not would be better. 

If he (unrealistically) takes 4 QBs, and 1 is good and the rest are flops, it's a huge win because his career will be 10-15 years long. We're capable of pissing away 3 draft picks even without doubling/tripling/quadrupling up on the QB position. That's no sweat for us.

[Paradis]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Do I get to eat said cows once they show up? Yes? Yes the coaching staff will hate to have a young high pick waiting to take the reigns once Cousins starts to decline. It worked Green Bay with Favre and Rodgers.  Not if you ask Favre of course. I could give a sh*t how Cousins feel about it.

Yea well unfortunately for you, the phrase free agent contains the word FREE... so you have to create a situation amicable to Cousins to land Cousins. What you described is a situation that he and his agent will laugh as they hang up the phone. 

Meanwhile, reality is on hold on line #2 

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

RGIII and Cousins draft worked out pretty well.

really did they? Cause one's careers over, and the other is about to leave. Also, there was drama. And Shanny lost his job. And WSH is equally as fcked up as we are and won ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES during this amazing RG3/Cousins era you just hung a lantern on. 

 

[The Crusher]

Just now, Paradis said:

Yea well unfortunately for you, the phrase free agent contains the word FREE... so you have to create a situation amicable to Cousins to land Cousins. What you described is a situation that he and his agent will laugh as they hang up the phone. 

Meanwhile, reality is on hold on line #2 

Pretty sure free agency comes before the draft. Once Cousins signs he shuts the hell up and comes to camp. What the team does in the draft is none of his concern.

Meanwhile, competition holding for you on line #3

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

really did they? Cause one's careers over, and the other is about to leave. Also, there was drama. And Shanny lost his job. And WSH is equally as fcked up as we are and won ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES during this amazing RG3/Cousins era you just hung a lantern on. 

 

RGIII's career ended because the idiot couldn't slide. Washington flat out mishandled Cousins. The draft itself found Washington a pretty nice franchise QB. Them fucking it up afterwards had nothing to do with it initially working.

[Paradis]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Pretty sure free agency comes before the draft. Once Cousins signs he shuts the hell up and comes to camp. What the team does in the draft is none of his concern.

Meanwhile, competition holding for you on line #3

lol yea? Is that how it works? 

When we call his agent and he asks us to paint a picture of what the team will look like -- we say "DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, KIRK CAN SHUT THE HELL UP" 

Why don't you paint me a really clear picture of what you think happens between and agent and GM trying to land the biggest FREE AGENT Quarterback. I would love to hear your interpretation of that conversation.

[Jets0712]

Stay pat and draft mayfield and move on


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

RGIII's career ended because the idiot couldn't slide. Washington flat out mishandled Cousins. The draft itself found Washington a pretty nice franchise QB. Them ******* it up afterwards had nothing to do with it initially working.

again. You said it worked out. The lack of anything meaningful in 6 years of football would seem to disagree with you. 

[varjet]

1 minute ago, Jets0712 said:

Stay pat and draft mayfield and move on


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

The Jets are going to be drafting too low to be assured a chance at Mayfield.  

Based on prior years, I would think they would be assured assuming the Jets pick around 10, but I think it is really uncertain given all the teams that need QBs.  

They can't really trade up until you know who is available.

If the Jets are picking top 6 or so, I think their chance of getting Mayfield is very good, and if he does go before then, they will get an impact player at another position.  

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Paradis said:

lol yea? Is that how it works? 

When we call his agent and he asks us to paint a picture of what the team will look like -- we say "DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, KIRK CAN SHUT THE HELL UP" 

Why don't you paint me a really clear picture of what you think happens between and agent and GM trying to land the biggest FREE AGENT Quarterback. I would love to hear your interpretation of that conversation.

Do you show your cards when you play poker?  I don't. You do what you got to do to get Cousins to sign and  then you draft whats best for the team. If its drafting his heir apparent then it is what it is. I'm not an NFL executive Im a fan of a football fan of a team who hasn't drafted a franchise QB since before the year I was born and Im 51.  Im a little impatient.

[The Crusher]

7 minutes ago, Paradis said:

again. You said it worked out. The lack of anything meaningful in 6 years of football would seem to disagree with you. 

Except them having a better QB than we had in that same time period. The QB most teams will be over spending in FA for and asking his agent for permission to a draft a QB. Yeah nothing. Nothing at all.

[Paradis]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Do you show your cards when you play poker?  I don't. You do what you got to do to get Cousins to sign and  then you draft whats best for the team. If its drafting his heir apparent then it is what it is. I'm not an NFL executive Im a fan of a football fan of a team who hasn't drafted a franchise QB since before the year I was born and Im 51.  Im a little impatient.

Hey I understand brother. I get the "whys"... but that doesn't change reality that Kirk will not be coming to NY without a very clear picture of why that will work for him. End of story. It doesn't matter what story you or I spin, GMs are not in the habit of bending over backwards to sign a very RARE free agent QB, only to turn around and pull a stunt like trading up for Mayfield. It's counter-intuitive on a 10000 levels. Both to players and roster development. It makes no sense whatsoever except to fans like you and I. 

 

[Paradis]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Except them having a better QB than we had in that same time period. The QB most teams will be over spending in FA for and asking his agent for permission to a draft a QB. Yeah nothing. Nothing at all.

Kirk is trash. 

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Paradis said:

really did they? Cause one's careers over, and the other is about to leave. Also, there was drama. And Shanny lost his job. And WSH is equally as fcked up as we are and won ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES during this amazing RG3/Cousins era you just hung a lantern on. 

 

The drama is self-induced. They could have locked him up and chose not to. That doesn't therefore mean drafting him in the first place was foolish.

The zero playoff games is nothing to brag about, but it's also obviously more than being on just 1 player. Cousins was named Washington's starter at the start of the 2015 season. 2017 is season 3 for him. Washington has never been even in the top half of the league in points surrendered, and this year they're 32nd outright.

2017 is also the first time since 2013 that Drew Brees has QB'd a team to a winning record. Is Brees so much better this year than in any of the prior 3 years? It's a rhetorical question, but the point is obvious.

I'm not pushing for Cousins, and think we should draft our own FQB.  I do think that's what'll happen if he isn't tagged. Then we'll still win nothing, but the GM who paid an ungodly sum for him will get kudos for the improvement that still ultimately falls well short of the goal.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't think he's trash. I think on a team built well enough around him (e.g. our 2009-2010 teams) he could be a SB winner.

What I have doubts about is the ability to build such a team with a just pretty-good QB gobbling up 1/6 of the salary cap, as the margin of error is too slim.

The kind of money he's seeking he should be top 5 at worst, and ranking that low is only acceptable due to inflation in the years after his betters' contracts were signed.

[SenorGato]

5 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Get Cousins trade up and draft Mayfield the second Rosen and Darnold are gone. 

Right? Easy peasy if you aks me 

[Paradis]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't think he's trash. I think on a team built well enough around him (e.g. our 2009-2010 teams) he could be a SB winner.

pretty much it right there. Brad Johnson 2.0... Are we the 2000 era bucs? 

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't think he's trash. I think on a team built well enough around him (e.g. our 2009-2010 teams) he could be a SB winner.

What I have doubts about is the ability to build such a team with a just pretty-good QB gobbling up 1/6 of the salary cap, as the margin of error is too slim.

The kind of money he's seeking he should be top 5 at worst, and ranking that low is only acceptable due to inflation in the years after his betters' contracts were signed.

1 - Pretty good is like standard deviations better than what the Jets have gotten out of QBs the past decade. Note that in 2016 and 2015 Cousins was one of the elite passers in the league per FO. This year he’s fallen so low he’s as any Jets QB has managed to climb this decade by the same rankings. 

2 - Don’t they have tons of cap space? Who are you forever holding back this money for?!?!?! 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Paradis said:

pretty much it right there. Brad Johnson 2.0... Are we the 2000 era bucs? 

If we drafted him (or rather, his equivalent) in round 3, fine. Then we get a starting QB who costs $750K/year. Paying him the kind of crazy numbers that's being talked about? They'd better not make any errors in FA contracts, and had better hit on an additional 2+ draft picks every year at expensive FA positions.