Would you be okay if Mac doubled down on QB's in the draft?

[CrazyCarl40]

16 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

Instead of cousins, how about signing Bridgewater, drafting OL or pass rusher in top 10 and project Jackson as QB of the future in the second?

That sounds like doubling down on not great QBs. Right up Maccagnan’s sleeve!

[The Walrus]

I'm as conservative and slow to boil as they come usually, but I'm ready and I think nearly everyone is for management to take a gamble, far bigger than this team usually is prepared to take, on getting a long term QB.

So go ahead and be very aggressive on trade up for a top QB this year.

But I'd rather not double down. Rather see us taking an Olinemen somewhere in the first four rounds every year. Can't win without a QB or a decent Oline IMO. 

[Spoot-Face]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Oh boi looks like I got got. 

The team has one hole that matters and it’s the QB position

I agree that QB is the most important hole, but there are other holes on the team, most glaringly on the O-line, for example.

Once you get your QB, you gotta make sure he stays upright. Spending a high draft pick on another QB doesn't help that.

For the record, though, I would be okay with them signing Cousins as long as they are still gonna draft a QB high (like Mayfield). I just don't think that's gonna happen, especially with the state of the rest of the team as it is.

[Augustiniak]

It worked well for safeties so sure....

[Spoot-Face]

45 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Demario ******* Davis.

I don't know whether you are serious with this statement or not, nor do I know whether the implications of said statement make me want to applaud the team or just simply cry.

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

imagine what we could do with 80 million when we don't have use 1/2 of it to sign Cousins and ridiculous signing bonus it'll take to lure him away from DEN or ARZ.

Honestly, the whole oline is a fat sh*tburger. You could dump 30million in there and actually protect a mofo for a change. We could also fill out the roster with corners and a fcking pass rusher. Lots of 'backs on the market as well. There's a million better ways to spend the money than another veteran retreat, just so he can helm another porous Jets team that isn't quite good enough.

Fck that homey. 

I can assure you that that gets you way less than you imagine. From there half isn’t going to Cousins. You’re not getting a whole OL or an elite pass rusher or corner through FA. Whatever back you’re talking about - linebacker or running - isn’t going to be expensive unless they continue to be the Jets. 

[SenorGato]

10 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I agree that QB is the most important hole, but there are other holes on the team, most glaringly on the O-line, for example.

Once you get your QB, you gotta make sure he stays upright. Spending a high draft pick on another QB doesn't help that.

For the record, though, I would be okay with them signing Cousins as long as they are still gonna draft a QB high (like Mayfield). I just don't think that's gonna happen, especially with the state of the rest of the team as it is.

All of those other holes can be covered by finding a QB and not sh*tting the bed every draft every year. Drafting a QB isn’t stopping them from drafting OL or signing a FA OL, neither is both drafting and signing a QB. 

[Spoot-Face]

31 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

All of those other holes can be covered by finding a QB and not sh*tting the bed every draft every year. Drafting a QB isn’t stopping them from drafting OL or signing a FA OL, neither is both drafting and signing a QB. 

If you think that they'll still prioritize finding a QB in the draft even after they pay 20-30 million to Cousins, then fine. Agree to disagree. I'm highly skeptical that they will. After all, we are talking about a GM who passed on taking any QB in the 2017 draft because of... Hackenberg.

I feel like once he pays big bucks to Cousins, then Macc is gonna wipe his hands, proclaim, "Done!", and move on to filling other holes via his "BPA" strategy.

If they still take a QB high, then great. If not, then we're stuck with a QB who's marginally better than Josh McCown, but at 4-5x the price. Plus Christian Hackenberg, and maybe his distant cousin from Wyoming as the only other QBs on the roster.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

imagine what we could do with 80 million when we don't have use 1/2 of it to sign Cousins and ridiculous signing bonus it'll take to lure him away from DEN or ARZ.

Honestly, the whole oline is a fat sh*tburger. You could dump 30million in there and actually protect a mofo for a change. We could also fill out the roster with corners and a fcking pass rusher. Lots of 'backs on the market as well. There's a million better ways to spend the money than another veteran retreat, just so he can helm another porous Jets team that isn't quite good enough.

Fck that homey. 

I think people are really, really, really overstating the significance of the “$80 million in cap space.” The cap shoots up next year. Everybody has copious cap space. Nobody is losing any free agents that they want to keep. If we sign Cousins, it’s because 1. Washington didn’t want him and 2. No one else really did, either. 

 

From overthecap.com:

 

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

If you think that they'll still prioritize finding a QB in the draft even after they pay 20-30 million to Cousins, then fine. Agree to disagree. I'm highly skeptical that they will. After all, we are talking about a GM who passed on taking any QB in the 2017 draft because of... Hackenberg.

I feel like once he pays big bucks to Cousins, then Macc is gonna wipe his hands, proclaim, "Done!", and move on to filling other holes via his "BPA" strategy.

If they still take a QB high, then great. If not, then we're stuck with a QB who's marginally better than Josh McCown, but at 4-5x the price. Plus Christian Hackenberg, and maybe his distant cousin from Wyoming as the only other QBs on the roster.

They don’t need to prioritize anything on draft day with Cousins. All he really eliminates is trading up for a QB, maybe, beyond that it’s BPA. 

[Spoot-Face]

5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

They don’t need to prioritize anything on draft day with Cousins. All he really eliminates is trading up for a QB, maybe, beyond that it’s BPA. 

Annnnnnnnnd that's where you lose me.

[SenorGato]

12 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Annnnnnnnnd that's where you lose me.

How? There’s a QB. The team needs a QB. It’s no different than what they’ve been doing - filling holes with FA before the draft - except this time the largest and most important hole has been fllled for at least two years with an easily above average starter. 

[SenorGato]

37 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think people are really, really, really overstating the significance of the “$80 million in cap space.” The cap shoots up next year. Everybody has copious cap space. Nobody is losing any free agents that they want to keep. If we sign Cousins, it’s because 1. Washington didn’t want him and 2. No one else really did, either. 

Not sure that is how FA works, but no one being interested would be best case for the Jets. 

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

How? There’s a QB. The team needs a QB. It’s no different than what they’ve been doing - filling holes with FA before the draft - except this time the largest and most important hole has been fllled for at least two years with an easily above average starter. 

How? Because I'm not sold on Kirk Cousins being the long term solution at QB; not at that price, and especially not at the expense of picking the best QB you can in the draft.

Look, do I think he's better than Fitz and McCown? Yes.

Do I think he's better than what we currently have on the roster? Yes.

Do I think he's worth enough to hitch our cart to Ryan Fitzpatrick part 3, but at a much heftier price, and at the expense of passing on future QBs in the draft? Hell to the ******* no.

Which comes back to a previous statement of mine in the thread: I'd be okay with signing Cousins if they still land a QB like Mayfield.

[SenorGato]

46 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

How? Because I'm not sold on Kirk Cousins being the long term solution at QB; not at that price, and especially not at the expense of picking the best QB you can in the draft.

Look, do I think he's better than Fitz and McCown? Yes.

Do I think he's better than what we currently have on the roster? Yes.

Do I think he's worth enough to hitch our cart to Ryan Fitzpatrick part 3, but at a much heftier price, and at the expense of passing on future QBs in the draft? Hell to the ******* no.

Which comes back to a previous statement of mine in the thread: I'd be okay with signing Cousins if they still land a QB like Mayfield.

You keep making up this thing scenario where Cousins can stop them from taking a QB. That is a made up scenario. There is no rule that stops the Jets from drafting a QB. No one is signing Cousins to infinity years so how you feel about him as whatever long term even means doesn’t matter. What he definitely is is a clear and significant upgrade immediately and likely for the season after.  Comparing him to Fitzpatrick is dramatic at all because Fitzpatrick was a Jet and something stuff things, but they don’t actually have anything in common as on field NFL passers. 

[Jetsplayer21]

No way. We wasted enough high  picks. Hackenberg pick, prior, Coples, Milner, ect. We have to plug lot of holes. Plus is Mac ready to cut hackenberg ? McCown is coming back

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

You keep making up this thing scenario where Cousins can stop them from taking a QB. That is a made up scenario. There is no rule that stops the Jets from drafting a QB.

You're right, there is no rule. I never said there was. Nor have I said it'll stop them from taking a QB. Sure, they could take a flier on the likes of a Josh Allen-caliber QB after round 4. But I want them to be able to get someone in rounds 1 or 2. That is what signing Cousins could potentially prohibit. We've been there before, both with previous regimes and this one.

 

5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

No one is signing Cousins to infinity years so how you feel about him as whatever long term even means doesn’t matter.

Yeah, it does, if their commitment to Cousins makes them comfortable in passing on any other potential high-profile QB. Like I said, this regime has already set a precedence on that.

 

8 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

What he definitely is is a clear and significant upgrade immediately and likely for the season after.

No disagreement there.

 

9 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Comparing him to Fitzpatrick is dramatic at all because Fitzpatrick was a Jet and something stuff things, but they don’t actually have anything in common as on field NFL passers. 

I compared the two on the basis of being a stop-gap QB. While Cousins is better, he's more expensive. If he turns out to be the guy for us, then great. I'll eat crow. But I simply do not want them to throw all their eggs into another hole-filled basket. You've seen how ugly it's been for the past two years as the coaching staff went all in on first Fitz, and then McCown, with seemingly absolutely no alternative for the future. Doing that again, but with a 20-30 million dollar QB would be beyond insane.

[Philc1]

We aren’t drafting a qb

[Philc1]

21 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

No way. We wasted enough high  picks. Hackenberg pick, prior, Coples, Milner, ect. We have to plug lot of holes. Plus is Mac ready to cut hackenberg ? McCown is coming back

Drafting two qbs would be by far the smartest thing Macc has ever done.  Hack and Petty should both be cut

 

We can plug the other holes with the the $60 mil in cap room

[SenorGato]

22 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

You're right, there is no rule. I never said there was. Nor have I said it'll stop them from taking a QB. Sure, they could take a flier on the likes of a Josh Allen-caliber QB after round 4. But I want them to be able to get someone in rounds 1 or 2. That is what signing Cousins could potentially prohibit. We've been there before, both with previous regimes and this one.

 

Yeah, it does, if their commitment to Cousins makes them comfortable in passing on any other potential high-profile QB. Like I said, this regime has already set a precedence on that.

 

No disagreement there.

 

I compared the two on the basis of being a stop-gap QB. While Cousins is better, he's more expensive. If he turns out to be the guy for us, then great. I'll eat crow. But I simply do not want them to throw all their eggs into another hole-filled basket. You've seen how ugly it's been for the past two years as the coaching staff went all in on first Fitz, and then McCown, with seemingly absolutely no alternative for the future. Doing that again, but with a 20-30 million dollar QB would be beyond insane.

Except that it doesn’t

You speak of presedence but this regime has taken QBs in two of their three drafts, both times after signing or extending a FA starter, and half of those times with a second round pick. Soooo again - signing Cousins does nothing to throw them off drafting a QB even with a high pick. What is probably far larger a factor is there actually being a QB worth a high pick available to draft for the Jets. 

 Cousins isn’t just better than Fitzgerald, there’s a canyon between the two. 

Passing on Cousins, an above average starting NFL QB available for just money while the team has the cap space and nothing to spend on, IS putting all your eggs in one basket. Signing Cousins is the first step in creating the opposite situation at QB for 2018 and likely 2019. 

[Philc1]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Except that it doesn’t

You speak of presedence but this regime has taken QBs in two of their three drafts, both times after signing or extending a FA starter, and half of those times with a second round pick. Soooo again - signing Cousins does nothing to throw them off drafting a QB even with a high pick. What is probably far larger a factor is there actually being a QB worth a high pick available to draft for the Jets. 

 Cousins isn’t just better than Fitzgerald, there’s a canyon between the two. 

Passing on Cousins, an above average starting NFL QB available for just money while the team has the cap space and nothing to spend on, IS putting all your eggs in one basket. Signing Cousins is the first step in creating the opposite situation at QB for 2018 and likely 2019. 

Redskins are franchising cousins so get ready to send our first round pick on top of giving him $150 million

[SenorGato]

9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Redskins are franchising cousins so get ready to send our first round pick on top of giving him $150 million

None of this is happening

[Matt39]

Imagine being the guy pushing for Kirk Cousins

[Spoot-Face]

27 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

You speak of presedence but this regime has taken QBs in two of their three drafts, both times after signing or extending a FA starter, and half of those times with a second round pick. Soooo again - signing Cousins does nothing to throw them off drafting a QB even with a high pick.

So, now you're comparing signing Kirk Cousins to potentially 20-30 million for multiple years to signing Ryan Fitzpatrick for 1 year/12 million and Josh McCown for 1 year/6 million; while Fitzpatrick--by your account--is a "canyon-wide" difference worse QB?

Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown were brought in here to be stop-gap QBs (which is why they signed contracts that looked like that) who were to hold the fort until our drafted QBs (1 high rounder & 1 mid rounder) could. Not to mention that they completely passed on the QB position in 2017 (which is 33.33% of the time they passed on the QB position, if you wanna throw out percentages.)

They are not gonna pay Kirk Cousins 20+ million to simply be a stop-gap QB, so to compare that to the situations when we both signed an FA QB, and drafted a QB (only 1, of which, was a high rounder) is a completely false narrative. If they sign Cousins to that kind of contract, then he is gonna be the starter for as long as he's being paid, and they most likely are not gonna draft a high-profile QB just to sit them for the majority of their cheap, rookie contract. Not with their 20+ million dollar investment needing to be protected (i.e. O-line)

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Imagine being the guy pushing for Kirk Cousins

I don't even completely disagree with the idea of signing Cousins.

What I disagree with is the idea of signing him at the expense of drafting someone like Mayfield, or the notion that signing Cousins doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB high.

[T0mShane]

Just now, Spoot-Face said:

I don't even completely disagree with the idea of signing Cousins.

What I disagree with is the idea of signing him at the expense of drafting someone like Mayfield, or the notion that signing Cousins doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB high.

The current regime would never draft Mayfield anyway. Too cocky, too much baggage.

[Spoot-Face]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The current regime would never draft Mayfield anyway. Too cocky, too much baggage.

Sadly, you might be right about that.

But... then again...

 

See: Mauldin, Lorenzo

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

I don't even completely disagree with the idea of signing Cousins.

What I disagree with is the idea of signing him at the expense of drafting someone like Mayfield, or the notion that signing Cousins doesn't preclude them from drafting a QB high.

Cousins is a good QB. The Jets roster as it currently stands is as bad as its been since the mid 90's. He's not good enough to offset the roster. We have nothing at edge, nothing at CB, the oline blows and no backs. Hell, if Im Kirk Cousins I'd take less money to play elsewhere.

 

 

[Spoot-Face]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Cousins is a good QB. The Jets roster as it currently stands is as bad as its been since the mid 90's. He's not good enough to offset the roster. We have nothing at edge, nothing at CB, the oline blows and no backs.

That's a good summary.

[Obrien2Toon]

Mayfield- Stidham

[BROOKLYN JET]

Only if he goes 0 for 2.

[Fantasy Island]

There was not a 3 QB option, but I would chosen that.

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, SenorGato said:

I can assure you that that gets you way less than you imagine. From there half isn’t going to Cousins. You’re not getting a whole OL or an elite pass rusher or corner through FA. Whatever back you’re talking about - linebacker or running - isn’t going to be expensive unless they continue to be the Jets. 

well then I challenge this "assure" of yours, because I do think for the price of what Cousins will get in guarantees for the first 3 years of his contract, will in fact pay for an oline. Or an assortment of pieces. I'm not talking about signing the greatest ensemble since the avengers, but you can do some real damage. I just don't think Kirk is worth that price. Flat out. 

[SenorGato]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

well then I challenge this "assure" of yours, because I do think for the price of what Cousins will get in guarantees for the first 3 years of his contract, will in fact pay for an oline. Or an assortment of pieces. I'm not talking about signing the greatest ensemble since the avengers, but you can do some real damage. I just don't think Kirk is worth that price. Flat out. 

Jeebus you’re not getting a whole new OL in FA for that money. You understand that these pieces have to exist in FA, right? And that you’re paying FA prices for anyone in FA, not just Cousins? 

Pay Cousins. Signing him is no different that what they have already been doing in FA at QB except he’s a wildly better player and still younger than the previous FA QBs. 

[SenorGato]

8 hours ago, Spoot-Face said:

So, now you're comparing signing Kirk Cousins to potentially 20-30 million for multiple years to signing Ryan Fitzpatrick for 1 year/12 million and Josh McCown for 1 year/6 million; while Fitzpatrick--by your account--is a "canyon-wide" difference worse QB?

Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown were brought in here to be stop-gap QBs (which is why they signed contracts that looked like that) who were to hold the fort until our drafted QBs (1 high rounder & 1 mid rounder) could. Not to mention that they completely passed on the QB position in 2017 (which is 33.33% of the time they passed on the QB position, if you wanna throw out percentages.)

They are not gonna pay Kirk Cousins 20+ million to simply be a stop-gap QB, so to compare that to the situations when we both signed an FA QB, and drafted a QB (only 1, of which, was a high rounder) is a completely false narrative. If they sign Cousins to that kind of contract, then he is gonna be the starter for as long as he's being paid, and they most likely are not gonna draft a high-profile QB just to sit them for the majority of their cheap, rookie contract. Not with their 20+ million dollar investment needing to be protected (i.e. O-line)

Stop being tedious, they’ve drafted QBs after signing FA starters at the same position. Slap whatever descriptor you want on them - long term, stop gap it doesn’t matter - signing a FA QB has not stopped them from using a high pick on a QB. They’re not giving Cousins as a lifetime contract in FA.