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Mac and qbs

kevinc855

By kevinc855
in NY Jets Forum

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Pac said:

Don't believe the hype..

Morton comes from the school of Gruden and Payton and Jeremy Bates got the best years Cutler and McCown have had.

This notion that they're incapable of grooming a QB is stooopid.

Now last years crew on the other hand sucked big time.  The QB coach who had never coached QB's proudly stated they were putting Hack on ice for the year.  Weren't going to work on his mechanics or give him any reps..  they actually said that out loud.  

Why is that notion stoooopid?  How have they've proved otherwise?

Morton was a WR coach prior to becoming an OC.

Jeremy Bates has been out of coaching since 2012. 

Where are their examples of them grooming a QB? 

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Pac

Pac

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, JiF said:

Why is that notion stoooopid?  How have they've proved otherwise?

Morton was a WR coach prior to becoming an OC.

Jeremy Bates has been out of coaching since 2012. 

Where are their examples of them grooming a QB? 

You first.

Name the terrible college QB who came to the NFL and became good after a thorough grooming?

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Pac

Pac

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Not grooming a "young" QB is 100% fact. Yes, they can bring in an old underachiever who has his best year of underachieving yet. I guess that's a skill boo.

Bates was with Cutler in Denver too..  basically he was around for Cutlers "good" years.

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bgivs21

bgivs21

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JiF said:

Huh?  Lee is a total liability in coverage and otherwise, he tackles people, sometimes.  Deon Jones has 5 INT's and just iced the game last week with an incredible pick in the endzone.  Blake Martinez, a 4th round pick in the same draft, has 2 career INT's and more tackles than Lee.

Lee is closer to Joe Schobert who was also, a 4th round pick and even Joe has a pick. 

Hell, even Jaylon Smith has an INT and he couldnt even walk last year. 

Going from god awful to being able to tackle people isn't impressive. 

And how does Hack getting a chance make him better than one of the best defenders in the league? 

 

Jones has just 2 INTs this year. And If we're going to cherry pick stats I can say Lee has 3 more sacks than Jones does & has 2 forced fumbles on the year compared to none for Jones. 

What I'm saying is if Lee continues to improve going forward & Hack turns into anything, the whole argument of we should have skipped on Lee & Hack and picked player 1 & Jones won't matter. 

Let's also not forget there wasn't much to choose from in that 1st round when we took Lee

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Pac said:

You first.

Name the terrible college QB who came to the NFL and became good after a thorough grooming?

It doesn't happen but I'm just saying where's the proof these guys can groom someone?  You said it's stoooopid to say they cant but they haven't given you any reason to say they can.

 

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

 Jones has just 2 INTs this year. And If we're going to cherry pick stats I can say Lee has 3 more sacks than Jones does & has 2 forced fumbles on the year compared to none for Jones. 

What I'm saying is if Lee continues to improve going forward & Hack turns into anything, the whole argument of we should have skipped on Lee & Hack and picked player 1 & Jones won't matter. 

Let's also not forget there wasn't much to choose from in that 1st round when we took Lee

Hack wont turn into anything and Lee tackles people.  More than likely Lee will never live up to his draft position and we all know Hack definitely never will. 

Will Fuller has been very good when healthy.  Doctson is coming along nicely.  Artie Burns is really good.  There were options.  The Jets just decided to take a player most teams target in the 3rd round. 

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legler82

legler82

Posted
Posted

I'm starting to think our inability to match QB prospects with the right schemes and allow them time to get well versed in said schemes is a toxic byproduct of our organizational structure. If you have the GM hire the coach, then the GM can higher a coach that share his offensive and/or defensive philosophy. For example, the Green Bay Packers have been running the WCO for the better part of 30 years, maybe more. When considering and offensive minded head coach Ted Thompson favors coaches with that background. Same can be said of his predecessor, Ron Wolf. If Thompson would to ever have to replace McCarthy, best believe they would still be running the WCO. This same thought process is applied when it's time for them to draft a QB. All QB prospects are looked at through the prism of "does he fit the WCO?". It's hard to develop that kind of continuity of vision when both GM and HC report to the owner. What you end up with is sh*tty's "Air Coryell" based O to MM's WCO to Sparano's "I'm Just Winging It" to Gailey's Spread based O back to the WCO. It would be hard for even the most talented of prospects to develop under these ever changing schemes. This same principle can be applied to the defensive side of the ball. Defenses that have found sustainable success for long periods of time tend to stick to one scheme as personnel and coaches come and go.

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bgivs21

bgivs21

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JiF said:

Hack wont turn into anything and Lee tackles people.  More than likely Lee will never live up to his draft position and we all know Hack definitely never will. 

Will Fuller has been very good when healthy.  Doctson is coming along nicely.  Artie Burns is really good.  There were options.  The Jets just decided to take a player most teams target in the 3rd round. 

Artie Burns was atrocious last year. He's been playing better this year. If we took Fuller w/ all his injuries it would've equated to Devin Smith - a speedster who just can't stay healthy. Agreed on Doctson but who knows if he'd have ever gotten playing time here. The WR position has been filled nicely by Mac. Hopefully Stewart & Hansen can turn into something. 

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

Artie Burns was atrocious last year. He's been playing better this year. If we took Fuller w/ all his injuries it would've equated to Devin Smith - a speedster who just can't stay healthy. Agreed on Doctson but who knows if he'd have ever gotten playing time here. The WR position has been filled nicely by Mac. Hopefully Stewart & Hansen can turn into something. 

Lee was atrocious last year and most of this year but we're giving him kudos, so why not Artie Burns?  I don't see how you can compare Fuller to Smith.  Smith played what, 3 games and is out of the league? 

Mac gets 2 nods of credit from me: what he's done at the WR position and the Sheldon trade.  That's it.

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bgivs21

bgivs21

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JiF said:

Lee was atrocious last year and most of this year but we're giving him kudos, so why not Artie Burns?  I don't see how you can compare Fuller to Smith.  Smith played what, 3 games and is out of the league? 

Mac gets 2 nods of credit from me: what he's done at the WR position and the Sheldon trade.  That's it.

I did give Burns kudos in my post - I literally said "he's playing better this year". Same as I said for Lee

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Pennington

Pennington

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

My concern with Mac is his track record of taking prototypical QB's.  Rosen and Darnold will be gone----

It just feels like our next QB is going to be Josh Allen....more unproductive "potential" that won't pan out.

Take Mayfield and let's have some excitement.

I don't hate Allen like most and think he could actually pan out in the right situation. If he ends up with a team like Green Bay and gets to learn under Rodgers he could pan out in a couple of years. He is completely wrong for this organization because even though his upside his huge there is a big bust potential that would surely be realized here.

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Jetster

Jetster

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, 19andOhWait said:

the hype train is leaving the station soon. this board better hurry up and get on

Lj.jpg

Hey, Lammar Jackson running around like chicken with his head cut off would be the most exciting thing on offense this team has seen since Favre was here dropping 50 points on Arizona.

 

 

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Pennington

Pennington

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

The QB position HAS TO be addressed by the GM this year.  He made it this way by ignoring it and /or swinging and missing for the past 3 years.  If he adds another JAG QB in 2018, he certainly won't be  getting a 5th year to turn this team around, so he needs to be super aggressive and probably overpay to trade up and get the QB of his choice. 

Completely agree but this GM is gutless so I don't see it happening.

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Pennington

Pennington

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, legler82 said:

I'm starting to think our inability to match QB prospects with the right schemes and allow them time to get well versed in said schemes is a toxic byproduct of our organizational structure. If you have the GM hire the coach, then the GM can higher a coach that share his offensive and/or defensive philosophy. For example, the Green Bay Packers have been running the WCO for the better part of 30 years, maybe more. When considering and offensive minded head coach Ted Thompson favors coaches with that background. Same can be said of his predecessor, Ron Wolf. If Thompson would to ever have to replace McCarthy, best believe they would still be running the WCO. This same thought process is applied when it's time for them to draft a QB. All QB prospects are looked at through the prism of "does he fit the WCO?". It's hard to develop that kind of continuity of vision when both GM and HC report to the owner. What you end up with is sh*tty's "Air Coryell" based O to MM's WCO to Sparano's "I'm Just Winging It" to Gailey's Spread based O back to the WCO. It would be hard for even the most talented of prospects to develop under these ever changing schemes. This same principle can be applied to the defensive side of the ball. Defenses that have found sustainable success for long periods of time tend to stick to one scheme as personnel and coaches come and go.

Nothng personal but I am having a hard time taking you seriously regarding QBs when you have an picture of that stiff Stidham under your name.

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legler82

legler82

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Pennington said:

Nothng personal but I am having a hard time taking you seriously regarding QBs when you have an picture of that stiff Stidham under your name.

Who should I have as my avatar, the next member of the "hey did you know I won the Heisman back in XXXX" QB club, Mayfield?

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JohnnyLV

JohnnyLV

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

My concern with Mac is his track record of taking prototypical QB's.  Rosen and Darnold will be gone----

It just feels like our next QB is going to be Josh Allen....more unproductive "potential" that won't pan out.

Take Mayfield and let's have some excitement.

Maybe Johnson and Johnson will view him as the next Tebow and actually want to draft him, because you know "you can never have enough Mayfield" 

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JohnnyLV

JohnnyLV

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Pac said:

He's kinda koo koo.

He believes there's been a conspiracy to sabotage Pettys career orchestrated by Bowles and Co. 

Your best bet is to just smile and nod.

No, I believe you try and develop young players especially QB and not tread water with washed up no where veterans. I have no idea if Petty will continue to suck or if the light will go on. but he needs to be given a real chance

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greenwave81

greenwave81

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This can’t be for real. Omg 

Ummm...yeah.  It's for real.  Some people think differently than you I guess.  Some of us believe Petty should have more than token garbage time starts when the season is lost is all.

It took Josh McCown 15 seasons to be the loser that he is.  Think about that.

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

The cowboys tried to trade up to take Paxton lynch instead of dak Prescott...the Broncos used a first round pick on lynch at least we passed on him to draft a project qb.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

Wow u enjoy making excuses for a bottom 3 nfl GM 

 

We passed on Watson for a friggin safety who isn’t even good 

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SR24

SR24

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Not a Bowles fan but how is O’Brien this incredible savior figure?

Seems like a good coach, brings fire and energy and his season took a few big hits with Watson/Watt being hurt and cushing getting popped for 10 games. He has NFL experience,seems to know when to call a timeout and his players seem to like playing for him which are all upgrades over what we have now

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, SR24 said:

Seems like a good coach, brings fire and energy and his season took a few big hits with Watson/Watt being hurt and cushing getting popped for 10 games. He has NFL experience,seems to know when to call a timeout and his players seem to like playing for him which are all upgrades over what we have now

You just described 95% of current and former nfl head coaches

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bealeb319

bealeb319

Posted
Posted
Wow u enjoy making excuses for a bottom 3 nfl GM 
 
We passed on Watson for a friggin safety who isn’t even good 
A lot of teams passed on watson. Most teams want a traditional qb and not a fancy dual threat type. Watson looked fantastic this season while he was healthy but he has now torn an acl in each leg...I am not saying he can't bounce back from that but he will be more susceptible to reinjuring them now. Adams might not be the miracle cure to fixing our bad team and he doesn't give us a franchise qb but he has had a pretty decent rookie season there is no reason to put the kid down because you didn't get your way.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app

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Philc1

Philc1

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

A lot of teams passed on watson. Most teams want a traditional qb and not a fancy dual threat type. Watson looked fantastic this season while he was healthy but he has now torn an acl in each leg...I am not saying he can't bounce back from that but he will be more susceptible to reinjuring them now. Adams might not be the miracle cure to fixing our bad team and he doesn't give us a franchise qb but he has had a pretty decent rookie season there is no reason to put the kid down because you didn't get your way.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://JetNation.com mobile app
 

It’s a qb league.  Mac sucks at evaluating qbs.  Time to move on

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