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What the **** is a catch?  Can anyone tell me? The NFL is just trash. 

10 times more pissed about this than any Jet loss this year.  How many ******* times are the Pats going to be gifted games?!  It's ******* sickening.

secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

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2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Did not control the ball it was bobbled. ASJ got the same call against NE remember. 

It was jarred loose by the ground. After it was caught and a ‘football move’ was made in him diving for the end zone. We’ve seen hundreds of plays where a RB takes handoff, then dives, and after hitting ground ball comes out. Still a TD. Possession established, football move made, crosses the plane of goal.

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The refs are like robots with no common sense

same goes for the hits on qbs. Sometimes a hit on the head isnt a 15 yard penalty, let the refs use their own judgements.

sometimes a qb will bend a little and that will cause a hit to the head, not a 15 yard penalty.

Common sense!!!

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3 hours ago, rangerous said:

if it was bobbled, it was after it was already across the goal line.  that was a clean catch.

that is not the way the rule works. You should know this by now.  This has been going on now for 2+years.  On a running play, the ball carrier crosses the goal line and it's a TD.  But on receptions, it's not enough to cross the plane...  the catch "process" must be completed without bobbling the ball. It's what overturned a pair of would-be ASJ TD's this year.  The rule sucks.  But it is the rule and the refs are adhering to it.  The rule really sucks. 

 

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1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:
  1. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
  2. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
  3. maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps

James secured control of the ball with his hands. That satisfies number 1. James touches the ground with a knee and a foot. That satisfies number 2. He maintains control of the ball long enough to become a runner and turns up field. That satisfies number 3. He turned his head up field and drove his knee into the ground to lunge forward. 

The play was originally called a touchdown, so in order to overturn the call, you need indisputable visual evidence. In this case, there was not indisputable visual evidence that James was not a runner. The call was wrong.

Yep

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Inconsistency is a killer. 

If Fans start to truly believe the rules are not equally applied.....then they start seeing you like the WWE. 

Rigged, fraudulent, "Sports Entertainment".

I don't think the league is doing it on purpose, honestly.  But I DO think they're wildly inconsistent in how and when and for whom calls get made.

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17 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Inconsistency is a killer. 

If Fans start to truly believe the rules are not equally applied.....then they start seeing you like the WWE. 

Rigged, fraudulent, "Sports Entertainment".

I don't think the league is doing it on purpose, honestly.  But I DO think they're wildly inconsistent in how and when and for whom calls get made.

I used to deny the reality until..........

The league and this commissioner burnt the tapes telling us there was nothing on them and then later when confronted in a legal setting stated that the league was not a sport but an "Entertainment Company" and as such patrons had no expectation of fair games.  What that says in common parlance is the league is saying that games can be rigged if they wish they to be.

Think:

 1.   Well are games fixed?  Well on page 308 of Dan Moldea's book "Interference" he lists over 70 NFL games that have been fixed and includes the names of the 2 referees involved in fixing those games. He also lists interviews with NFL HOF players most notably KC Chiefs QB Len Dawson. 

2.   Remember in 2007 a Jets season ticket holder sued the NFL for $185 million and the case reached the US Supreme Court. The court documents are available online at http://thefixisin.net/resources/prec...al+opinion.pdf. The Jets fan argued that, all Jets fans are entitled to refunds because they paid for a ticket to a legitimate sporting event and not FIXED EVENTS. He argued, as would I, had he been aware that the games were not "real" then we would not have gone.

The NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored" not that the games were real or true competitive events!!!  Shocking that this was not discussed in greater depth at the time.

 Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed with the NFL stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

This is important because in a legitimate competition a team can't fix their own games for gambling purposes, nor can they fix an intellectual contest (a ruling based n the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950s) But judges  have ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL and that is why the NFL won.

There is so much here but I  don't want to write a book.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Dcat said:

that is not the way the rule works. You should know this by now.  This has been going on now for 2+years.  On a running play, the ball carrier crosses the goal line and it's a TD.  But on receptions, it's not enough to cross the plane...  the catch "process" must be completed without bobbling the ball. It's what overturned a pair of would-be ASJ TD's this year.  The rule sucks.  But it is the rule and the refs are adhering to it.  The rule really sucks. 

 

the refs called it a td on the field.  it's the morons in nfl central who don't have a clue.  imo it was a catch.  the te caught the ball cleanly and had complete possession.  the ball crossed the plane firmly in his possession. the asj catch can be argued.  this one can't.

and if the nfl wants to know why they are losing viewers, it's because of bs calls like this one. and while i'm at it, in the final play, the patsie was back climbing the receiver.  it was clearly pass interference.  but it's the patsies.

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The NFL is rigged. They know that league viewing is down.

So, one of the biggest matchups Steelers vs Pats. 

They did everything in their power to keep this game close, back & forth. 

It is absolutely amazing how many games the Patriots are involved in that are exactly like this. Questionable TD reversals, ignored PI on their defense. The list goes on. Earlier this year, the Texans had the lead & the ball and were just 1 first down from ending the game. The refs threw a flag on the Pats LB for hooking the RB. Automatic 1st down, game over right?

Wrong, the refs picked up the flag for no apparent reason, I think they told Bill Obrien the hold was within 1 yard of the LOS. They replay the play on the big board at Gillette, it was an OBVIOUS grab, 5 yards from the LOS, Bill Obrien blew his f*cking top, screaming at the refs.

Texans got sacked on the next play, Pats drove the field & won the game with a throw to Cooks with zero time on the clock & their Oline holding Watt & Mercillus all day so Brady could get the throw off! It happens WAY TOO OFTEN with the Pats. Brady is a GOAT, if you give him an unearned possession & keep your flag in your pocket & ignore all the holding that goes on with that Pats Oline his % of last minute & last 2nd wins is inevitable. 

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The NFL has made the refs the "stars" and it is ruining the game.  Every play you 
have to hold your breath to see if there's a flag, if what's a catch a catch, if
what's a TD is a TD, if what's a fumble is a fumble.  It's beyond irritating, it's
ridiculous that I know the names of refs because they're on TV so often

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11 minutes ago, KRL said:

The NFL has made the refs the "stars" and it is ruining the game.  Every play you 
have to hold your breath to see if there's a flag, if what's a catch a catch, if
what's a TD is a TD, if what's a fumble is a fumble.  It's beyond irritating, it's
ridiculous that I know the names of refs because they're on TV so often

Just remember - the ground can't cause a fumble.  Unless it does.

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Bottom line:  If he made a football move then it's a catch regardless of what happened when the ball is knocked loose by the ground.

So, was stretching out a football move?  THIS is the real point.  Ref said "the receiver did not survive the ground"  but that only occurred after he made a football move resulting in the ball crossing the plain?

So either stretching for the plane isn't a football move or the refs got it wrong.  Sure seems like a football move to me.  

      

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13 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Pitt TE did not have control of the ball just like the call that went against the Jets weeks ago. 

Oddly, these calls always seem to happen during Patriots games, and they always seem to be in favor of the Patriots. Hmmm...

 

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The NFL needs to change the catch rule to something simple like possession and two feet, or a knee, or a buttcheek hitting the ground. "Surviving the ground" should only matter if two feet, or a knee, or a buttcheek didn't hit the ground.  Forget "football moves" as well. 

I mentioned the buttcheek because someone actually made a catch by landing on their ass.

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13 hours ago, Pac said:

10 times more pissed about this than any Jet loss this year.  How many ******* times are the Pats going to be gifted games?!  It's ******* sickening.

Gifted?  Brady and Gronk completely took over the friggin' game when all the Steeelers had to do was stop them.  Always a good idea to single up coverage on Gronk in crunch time.  Who the fuk is Pitt's DC?  Plus, the Steeler DB had an INT in his hands which would have ended the game. Choked.   Pitt just got outplayed by the Pats at the end.  Again.  And I'm a closet Steelers fan.

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9 hours ago, PS17 said:

How bout that index card first down

I'm reading his explanation for using the folded card right now and it makes zero sense.  

His decision was made visually but he needed to use the card to verify what he saw?

The NFL is trash. 

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1 hour ago, KRL said:

The NFL has made the refs the "stars" and it is ruining the game.  Every play you 
have to hold your breath to see if there's a flag, if what's a catch a catch, if
what's a TD is a TD, if what's a fumble is a fumble.  It's beyond irritating, it's
ridiculous that I know the names of refs because they're on TV so often

I was out watching some of the games and I legit heard a fan say, "oh no, so and so is ref'ing this game, he hates us"...as they announced the refs for the game. 

The NFL is trash. 

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I've been preaching this for the last few years. The NFL jumped the shark tank as soon as they enforced the 5 yard chuck rule to benefit Manning. This got the wheels in motion to make huge profits off of fantasy football. NFL is a fraud league, all about the money.

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

I was out watching some of the games and I legit heard a fan say, "oh no, so and so is ref'ing this game, he hates us"...as they announced the refs for the game. 

The NFL is trash. 

it sure seems to be going the way of the nba.  that was a td.  i don't care what their rule book says because the rule is not objective. the te caught the ball and wasn't touched.  he stretched out to cross the plane.  once the ball is across the plane the play is over.  nothing else should matter at that point.

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38 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it sure seems to be going the way of the nba.  that was a td.  i don't care what their rule book says because the rule is not objective. the te caught the ball and wasn't touched.  he stretched out to cross the plane.  once the ball is across the plane the play is over.  nothing else should matter at that point.

Anyone with common sense would agree, but the NFL rulebook is constructed to benefit NE.

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I looked up the rule today, the football move is irrelevant on a catch where the player is going to the ground. The rule states if the player catches the ball in the act of going to the ground, he must not lose possession in the process of hitting the ground. That is the whole "surviving the ground" part of the rule. Its an awful, awful rule IMO, but the replay officials got the call right according to the awful rule. The football move is only relevant if the catch is made not going to the ground.

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19 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Pitt TE did not have control of the ball just like the call that went against the Jets weeks ago. 

He completes the process of the catch as soon as his knee hits thr grkund, and makes a football move to extend the football across the goal line.  That is catch against every team in the nfl and even against the pats if it wasnt a go ahead td.

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46 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I looked up the rule today, the football move is irrelevant on a catch where the player is going to the ground. The rule states if the player catches the ball in the act of going to the ground, he must not lose possession in the process of hitting the ground. That is the whole "surviving the ground" part of the rule. Its an awful, awful rule IMO, but the replay officials got the call right according to the awful rule. The football move is only relevant if the catch is made not going to the ground.

I read that 5 times and it makes zero sense.  The reason he was going to the ground was to extend the ball and lunge for the end zone.  If he just would have fallen naturally it would have been a completion short of the endzone.  He clearly secured the ball and was bringing it to his body.  His entire body was on the ground when he then extended the ball.  The extension for the goal line was what made the ball supposedly hit the ground (which you never actually clearly see, I saw a hand under the ball). This wasn't a situation where he used the ground to trap the ball or "catch" the ball.  The catch was made, his entire body was down, then the extension for the end zone happened.  

The rule is stupid and it's ambiguous but I don't see how this explains anything.  I saw a player, make a clear catch, his entire body was on the ground and he then extended the ball past the goalline.  There was nothing indisputable about it too.  

So let me ask you this with the way you've interpreted the rule; what if he was touched when his entire body was down before he extended the ball?  Catch or no catch? 

 

 

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