Looks like O'Brien may be out in Houston

[Jetster]

41 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Watson performed well individually but the team still lost those games and 2 of their wins one was a layup versus the browns and the other was a win they accidentally got facing an inept bengals team

 

O’Brien isn’t that good.  You are binge chugging on the kool-aid

 

Can coach circles around Bowles. Nearly upset the Pats in Gillette with f*cking Osweiller at QB. Give him a good QB he'll succeed, Bowles with a good QB? Jury is still out! McCown played well enough to win Pats, Fins, we couldn't take advantage of Falcons miscues, didn't even show up in Tampa.

Obrien has lost Watt, Mercillus, their LB core, Fuller, their RBs. Watson, Savage. Bowles can't even get Mo to play!

[UnTypicalJET]

No one is defending Bowles.  If the bengals and colts are “lining up” for O’Brien great I know  those are model franchises just like us

if I’m not mistaken Bowles interviewed for two of the three you mentioned. Bill Obrien has had a top 3 defense and weapons out the wazoo and still hasn’t had 10 wins. His QBs he’s had although not elite are way better than anyone Bowles has ever had. He has arguably the best DE to ever play the damn game. And please, let’s not forget CLOWNEY! Playoff appearances in a weak league is why Houston is running him out. If he was in the AFC east he’d have no appearances. To replace TB in my opinion it would have to have someone who hasnt displayed SIMILAR STRUGGLES with BETTER TALENT.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

[UnTypicalJET]

Can coach circles around Bowles. Nearly upset the Pats in Gillette with f*cking Osweiller at QB. Give him a good QB he'll succeed, Bowles with a good QB? Jury is still out! McCown played well enough to win Pats, Fins, we couldn't take advantage of Falcons miscues, didn't even show up in Tampa.
Obrien has lost Watt, Mercillus, their LB core, Fuller, their RBs. Watson, Savage. Bowles can't even get Mo to play!

Why is Houston running him out then?? Sounds like a Slam Dunk to me. ??‍♂️


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[TuscanyTile2]

This thread is 4 pages so far and I haven't read it all but I'm wondering if "Bill O'Brien to the Giants" has been mentioned.  I would think he'd prefer them to us should both want him.

[Jetster]

34 minutes ago, UnTypicalJET said:

Why is Houston running him out then?? Sounds like a Slam Dunk to me. ??‍♂️


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Uh, Parcells didn't get along with Kraft...sh*t happens.

[Jetster]

40 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This thread is 4 pages so far and I haven't read it all but I'm wondering if "Bill O'Brien to the Giants" has been mentioned.  I would think he'd prefer them to us should both want him.

Giants are a bigger mess than the Jets right now. OBJ? dude is a nutjob & will want to be the highest paid WR ever. Eli is a shell of himself, HUGE amount of salary going to the defense. Oline is more of a mess than the Jets. Brandon Marshall? he might say "no thanks to that". 

At least with the Jets he'll have close to 100 million after cutting Mo, Forte & Skrine, 4 picks in the top 115. And the ability to make a decision on the QB, maybe he wants Bridgewater, Keenum, trade for AJ McCarron, Cousins (admitted long shot), Jets at least have a young inexpensive group to work with & add assets as you go along.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Giants are a bigger mess than the Jets right now. OBJ? dude is a nutjob & will want to be the highest paid WR ever. Eli is a shell of himself, HUGE amount of salary going to the defense. Oline is more of a mess than the Jets. Brandon Marshall? he might say "no thanks to that". 

At least with the Jets he'll have close to 100 million after cutting Mo, Forte & Skrine, 4 picks in the top 115. And the ability to make a decision on the QB, maybe he wants Bridgewater, Keenum, trade for AJ McCarron, Cousins (admitted long shot), Jets at least have a young inexpensive group to work with & add assets as you go along.

But the giants might have the pick of the litter as far as QB in this draft.  Even if Cleveland won’t trade down 1 spot the giants will still have one of either Darnold or Rosen

[Jetster]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

But the giants might have the pick of the litter as far as QB in this draft.  Even if Cleveland won’t trade down 1 spot the giants will still have one of either Darnold or Rosen

Yea, replacing Eli goes over well with Giant fans clinging to the past, lol. Coaches available...say NO THANKS. Why would any coach want to deal with impediments? 

[RoadFan]

8 hours ago, Jetster said:

He did enough to win EVERY GAME

33 points vs Pats in Gillette- Brady throws last second TD to Cooks for the win.

57 points in a win over Titans

5 TDs in a loss vs Chiefs- defense lost that game

33 points & 3TDs vs Browns in a win

38 points & 4TDs in a Seattle loss- again the defense lost that game

Do your homework. 

Apparently, you didn't actually watch the Texans' games at New England and at Seattle.

Both games, the Texans had a lead very late in the game needing only to convert a 4th and short to run out the clock.  Deshaun Watson shredded both opponents up and down the field.  In those games, O'Brien thought the better option was to take the ball out of Watson's hands... and instead punt it back to the GOAT Tom Brady and MVP candidate Russell Wilson, thus relying on his shaky defense to hold the lead on the road at two of the biggest home field advantage venues.

How did O'Brien's gutless decisions work out?

DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

You don't replace a coach that has no balls with another.

[greenwave81]

44 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Apparently, you didn't actually watch the Texans' games at New England and at Seattle.

Both games, the Texans had a lead very late in the game needing only to convert a 4th and short to run out the clock.  Deshaun Watson shredded both opponents up and down the field.  In those games, O'Brien thought the better option was to take the ball out of Watson's hands... and instead punt it back to the GOAT Tom Brady and MVP candidate Russell Wilson, thus relying on his shaky defense to hold the lead on the road at two of the biggest home field advantage venues.

How did O'Brien's gutless decisions work out?

DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

You don't replace a coach that has no balls with another.

That depends...

Did the Coach with no balls in TX learn from that?  no one knows I guess...

But Bowles hasn't seemed to have learned about anything since he's been here as he continually sticks to the same lame ass decisions.

[joewilly12]

Mike Maccagnan/Bill O'Brien say no more if he's ousted in Houston he's our next HC. 

[Il Mostro]

On 12/17/2017 at 6:32 PM, SAR I said:

No.

More.

Rookie.

Head.

Coaches.

I'd take Bill O'Brien in a heartbeat.  I am sick and tired of breaking in rookie head coaches.  They suck.

SAR I

The Rams say hello.

[MaxAF]

What would Mac have to say of a Hack/O'Brien reunion if Mac stays. The college coach who actually had great success with Hackenberg. I think Mac would call it a match made in NFL heaven. However I think Mac and Bowles will more than likely stay. I'm not a Bowles hater but I would like to see what O'Brien could/would do with Hack. If Bill could turn the corner with Hackenberg it would save face on that 2nd round pick. Fantasy football at the highest level.

[Philc1]

On 12/19/2017 at 11:55 AM, 56mehl56 said:

Ok so who are your GM candidates - and if you say Casserly I'll put you on ignore for good.  

Anyone but Macc.  The 49ers are headed in the right direction and they hired John Lynch who was a friggin announcer

[Philc1]

On 12/19/2017 at 1:19 PM, UnTypicalJET said:

if I’m not mistaken Bowles interviewed for two of the three you mentioned. Bill Obrien has had a top 3 defense and weapons out the wazoo and still hasn’t had 10 wins. His QBs he’s had although not elite are way better than anyone Bowles has ever had. He has arguably the best DE to ever play the damn game. And please, let’s not forget CLOWNEY! Playoff appearances in a weak league is why Houston is running him out. If he was in the AFC east he’d have no appearances. To replace TB in my opinion it would have to have someone who hasnt displayed SIMILAR STRUGGLES with BETTER TALENT.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

This

 

Bill O’Brien is as mediocre a head coach as it gets 

[Philc1]

20 hours ago, MaxAF said:

What would Mac have to say of a Hack/O'Brien reunion if Mac stays. The college coach who actually had great success with Hackenberg. I think Mac would call it a match made in NFL heaven. However I think Mac and Bowles will more than likely stay. I'm not a Bowles hater but I would like to see what O'Brien could/would do with Hack. If Bill could turn the corner with Hackenberg it would save face on that 2nd round pick. Fantasy football at the highest level.

Oh 

 

my

 

 

God

 

 

 

 

[Anthony Jet]

31 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Anyone but Macc.  The 49ers are headed in the right direction and they hired John Lynch who was a friggin announcer

So you want Jim nantz?

[JoJoTownsell1]

On 12/19/2017 at 9:07 PM, joewilly12 said:

Mike Maccagnan/Bill O'Brien say no more if he's ousted in Houston he's our next HC. 

I hope you're right, but for some reason I get the vibe from Bowles that he has been told he is safe. My hope is that sometimes there are some borderline surprise firings every year and that this year it will be Bowles. 

[Augustiniak]

28 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I hope you're right, but for some reason I get the vibe from Bowles that he has been told he is safe. My hope is that sometimes there are some borderline surprise firings every year and that this year it will be Bowles. 

from the johnsons' perspective there's not much to like about bowles.  he hasn't shown to be a shrewd in-game coach or motivator.  he can't control his lockerroom.  he does not express a desire to develop offensive talent, but rather, seems to do so begrudgingly. 

i'd say there's more than a 50% chance bowles stays another year.  but if they fire him, i fully expect the johnsons and mccagnan to have a candidate in mind right away.  i wouldn't expect them to get rid of bowles, and then begin a search from pure scratch when there could be 10 other teams looking for head coaches.

[shuler82]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

from the johnsons' perspective there's not much to like about bowles.  he hasn't shown to be a shrewd in-game coach or motivator.  he can't control his lockerroom.  he does not express a desire to develop offensive talent, but rather, seems to do so begrudgingly. 

i'd say there's more than a 50% chance bowles stays another year.  but if they fire him, i fully expect the johnsons and mccagnan to have a candidate in mind right away.  i wouldn't expect them to get rid of bowles, and then begin a search from pure scratch when there could be 10 other teams looking for head coaches.

You're giving the Johnsons way too much credit. What they see is a team projected to go 1-15 this season, play relatively competitive football and win more than expected. What they're seeing on the field will have little influence on whether or not Bowles goes, considering the pre season projections.

What might (and what I'm holding out hope about) is that the fan base is disinterested. TV money aside, there's still something to be said about a half full home crowd and large contingents of visiting fans week in and week out. Forget selling PSLs, the Jets (and season ticket holders) can't unload game day tickets without taking a loss.

 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

Anybody who wants to bring in O'Brien because he "did well with Hackneberg" is outside their d*mn mind. Christian Hackenberg is one of the biggest mistakes in the last 25 years of this franchise. The idea that we should compound that by picking our next head coach based on him is so ludicrous I can't even wrap my head around it.

Now if you're impressed by his 31-31 record and legitimately believe he's a good coach, whatever. But Hack? C'mon people.

[Pac]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Christian Hackenberg is one of the biggest mistakes in the last 25 years of this franchise

Hack looks destined to be a bust but this always gets blown out of proportion.  A player taken 51st overall and not panning out is hardly as dramatic as most on this site make it out to seem.

Taking Coples at 16 then following that up by trading up to take Stephen Hill 43rd overall was wayyyyy worse.  

The Hack pick was a big swing and looks like it missed.  So what.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

Hack looks destined to be a bust but this always gets blown out of proportion.  A player taken 51st overall and not panning out is hardly as dramatic as most on this site make it out to seem.

Taking Coples at 16 then following that up by trading up to take Stephen Hill 43rd overall was in wayyyyy worse.  

The Hack pick was a big swing and looks like it missed.  So what.

I'm talking more from a defensible standpoint. The Hack pick was atrocious when it happened, multiple scouts and sources basically said that guy was undraftable before the draft -- plus you're not factoring in the butterfly effect of refusing to address the QB position because we had to "see what we had" in Hack. Had we not wasted a pick on Hack, maybe we take QB at 6 last year instead of a safety.

Look, teams miss on 2nd round picks (and the Jets almost exclusively miss on them) but Hackenberg is a 2nd round pick at the most important position on the field that is so bad he doesn't even dress for games. It's astounding that a team of highly paid professionals could take this guy that high and be so, so wrong about him. I still think he is by far the biggest indictment of Mac there is.

[Pac]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I'm talking more from a defensible standpoint. The Hack pick was atrocious when it happened, multiple scouts and sources basically said that guy was undraftable before the draft -- plus you're not factoring in the butterfly effect of refusing to address the QB position because we had to "see what we had" in Hack. Had we not wasted a pick on Hack, maybe we take QB at 6 last year instead of a safety.

Look, teams miss on 2nd round picks (and the Jets almost exclusively miss on them) but Hackenberg is a 2nd round pick at the most important position on the field that is so bad he doesn't even dress for games. It's astounding that a team of highly paid professionals could take this guy that high and be so, so wrong about him. I still think he is by far the biggest indictment of Mac there is.

This narrative that Hack was universally considered a terrible pick is not reality.  The only one that blasted Hack before the draft was PFF.

 

Walter:

For the 2016 NFL Draft, Hackenberg could go as high as the second round and as low as the fourth round. In speaking with sources, some teams grade Hackenberg on the third day of the 2016 NFL Draft as a fourth-rounder, but others have graded him in Round 3. Even the teams that graded him after the third round expect him to be selected on the second day. Hackenberg could at least be a quality backup and a developmental project who has the skill set and upside to become a good starter. 

Bleacher:

There’s ample reason to hate Hackenberg’s film. He was inaccurate, inefficient and ineffective as a starter this past season. But NFL teams are in the projection and upside business, not sticking to what a player has done in his college career. Hackenberg, at his best and based on his freshman-season offensive responsibilities, has all the signs of a franchise quarterback.

And while his film hasn’t looked the part of a first-round quarterback from this past season, it’s time to get on board with NFL teams’ interest and appreciate that the Penn State product will be a better pro than college player. He merits a first-round grade from more than a few NFL teams.

 

NFL.com:

Projection:

2nd-3rd Round

Scouting Report:

"Hackenberg has the size, athleticism and arm talent of a long-time NFL starter, but his accuracy issues go well beyond just "ball placement" problems. Teams must determine if his inaccuracy is innate or a product of the beatings he's taken, and then determine if he's shell-shocked or able to round back into form. Hackenberg's tools, intelligence and experience under center should make him an eventual starter, but his boom-or-bust potential will either get a coach an extension or fired." - Lance Zierlein, NFL.com

 

No link but both Kiper and McShay had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

31 minutes ago, Pac said:

This narrative that Hack was universally considered a terrible pick is not reality.  The only one that blasted Hack before the draft was PFF.

 

Walter:

For the 2016 NFL Draft, Hackenberg could go as high as the second round and as low as the fourth round. In speaking with sources, some teams grade Hackenberg on the third day of the 2016 NFL Draft as a fourth-rounder, but others have graded him in Round 3. Even the teams that graded him after the third round expect him to be selected on the second day. Hackenberg could at least be a quality backup and a developmental project who has the skill set and upside to become a good starter. 

Bleacher:

There’s ample reason to hate Hackenberg’s film. He was inaccurate, inefficient and ineffective as a starter this past season. But NFL teams are in the projection and upside business, not sticking to what a player has done in his college career. Hackenberg, at his best and based on his freshman-season offensive responsibilities, has all the signs of a franchise quarterback.

And while his film hasn’t looked the part of a first-round quarterback from this past season, it’s time to get on board with NFL teams’ interest and appreciate that the Penn State product will be a better pro than college player. He merits a first-round grade from more than a few NFL teams.

 

NFL.com:

Projection:

2nd-3rd Round

Scouting Report:

"Hackenberg has the size, athleticism and arm talent of a long-time NFL starter, but his accuracy issues go well beyond just "ball placement" problems. Teams must determine if his inaccuracy is innate or a product of the beatings he's taken, and then determine if he's shell-shocked or able to round back into form. Hackenberg's tools, intelligence and experience under center should make him an eventual starter, but his boom-or-bust potential will either get a coach an extension or fired." - Lance Zierlein, NFL.com

 

No link but both Kiper and McShay had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

 

I mean after his freshman year there were people who had him as the #1 overall pick. Clearly he had his proponents. We're just unfortunate that our GM was one of the biggest ones, valuing "tools" over being a good football player... Hell that bleacher thing you quoted basically says "he sucks but there are some GMs who might take him in the first anyway."

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Christian Hackenberg is one of the biggest mistakes in the last 25 years of this franchise. 

Sorry. There is no way a late 2nd round pick who is a bust can be considered "one of the biggest mistakes in 25 years."  2nd round picks bust all the time. I suppose then you consider Kellen Clemens to also be one of the biggest mistakes in Jets history as well. After all, he was drafted 2 spots earlier than Hachensuck at #49 - round 2.  Do yourself a favor and look at round 2 QBS over the last 2 decades. Over 90% of them were busts/non NFL starters. Including Geno and Clemens.

people forget where these guys were drafted. Gholston on was the biggest draft mistake of the last 25 years.  Because he was drafted overall #6.  Had he been drafted 51, then no big deal.

[JoJoTownsell1]

16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean after his freshman year there were people who had him as the #1 overall pick. Clearly he had his proponents. We're just unfortunate that our GM was one of the biggest ones, valuing "tools" over being a good football player... Hell that bleacher thing you quoted basically says "he sucks but there are some GMs who might take him in the first anyway."

Hack is a bust, but like some have said, not any more of a bust than Devin Smith/Ducasse etc. Just because Hack plays QB doesn't make him any more of a bust, it just makes it a flashier target for fans like yourself to latch onto. 

If you look at the players taken after Hack, it's not a very impressive list. You have to drop to the 4th round to find a player that has made the Pro Bowl in their first 2 years and that's Pharoah Cooper on special teams and then Jordan Howard (RB) and Tyreke Hill a player most teams wanted no part of for off field issues. 

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

So you want Jim nantz?

How about Peyton Manning

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Pac said:

Hack looks destined to be a bust but this always gets blown out of proportion.  A player taken 51st overall and not panning out is hardly as dramatic as most on this site make it out to seem.

Taking Coples at 16 then following that up by trading up to take Stephen Hill 43rd overall was wayyyyy worse.  

The Hack pick was a big swing and looks like it missed.  So what.

I love Macc lovers minimizing the Hack disaster 

[Pac]

53 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I love Macc lovers minimizing the Hack disaster 

trading a slew of picks to move up for RG3 was a disaster..  drafting Jake Locker 8th overall, Trent Richardson 3rd overall, or Kevin White 7th overall are other examples of "disasters".

Missing on a QB in the 2nd half of round 2 is not.  period.

no amount of feet stomping by the drama queen crew changes that.

 

[NoBowles]

24 minutes ago, Pac said:

trading a slew of picks to move up for RG3 was a disaster..  drafting Jake Locker 8th overall, Trent Richardson 3rd overall, or Kevin White 7th overall are other examples of "disasters".

Missing on a QB in the 2nd half of round 2 is not.  period.

no amount of feet stomping by the drama queen crew changes that.

 

This x1000

Its looking like Hack will not be our savior at QB, but as you mentioned, its really hard to call a 2nd half of the 2nd round QB taken a disaster. Was he drafted too early? Probably, maybe even by a couple of rounds. That would be called a bad pick, not a disaster. Its kind of staggering how when it comes to Maccagnan and Hackenberg, all logic and reason goes out the window with Jets fans.

The much bigger hit on Maccagnan is we are going to end year 3 of the Bowles/Maccagnan regime without our future QB on our roster. We will see if he gets him either through draft, trade or FA signing this year.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Hack is a bust, but like some have said, not any more of a bust than Devin Smith/Ducasse etc. Just because Hack plays QB doesn't make him any more of a bust, it just makes it a flashier target for fans like yourself to latch onto. 

If you look at the players taken after Hack, it's not a very impressive list. You have to drop to the 4th round to find a player that has made the Pro Bowl in their first 2 years and that's Pharoah Cooper on special teams and then Jordan Howard (RB) and Tyreke Hill a player most teams wanted no part of for off field issues. 

You're missing key components here.

A) How many of those players have occupied a roster spot for two years despite only being active for two games?

B ) How many of those players led to the team not addressing that position in following years out of... I dunno, hope, that he'd stop sucking?

Because of the nature of the QB position and how bad Hackenberg ended up being, it is far worse of a pick than most of you guys are acknowledging. Outside of Vernon Gholston I can't think of a Jets draft pick in the last 20 years that has contributed less. Guys like D-Rob may have sucked, but they played for us for years.

Hackenberg isn't just a bust. He isn't just bad. He's so bad that he cannot get on the field for a team that is destitute at QB. Had he been picked a couple of rounds later there's zero doubt he wouldn't be on the roster. Had we used the pick on a random guy off the street he would have made just as much impact on the organization. I don't know how you guys can seriously compare Hack with Devin Smith or Vlad Duccasse. It's not even close.

[JoJoTownsell1]

36 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're missing key components here.

A) How many of those players have occupied a roster spot for two years despite only being active for two games?

 

We are going 5-11 for 2 straight years. Hack could have taken up 3 rosters spots and it wouldn't make a difference. Would it be better if he was a WR that took up a roster spot and caught 6 balls over two years for 5-11 teams? Do you honestly think this team would have been a playoff contender if not for Hack taking up a roster spot???

37 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

You're missing key components here.

B ) How many of those players led to the team not addressing that position in following years out of... I dunno, hope, that he'd stop sucking?

 

We drafted him in 2016, so because of that we passed on Brisset/Kessler/Cook/Dak/Cardarale Jones/Hogan/Sudfeld/Rudock/Allen/Doughty. Out of those guys, only Dak looks like a decent NFL QB (and not even that decent without Zeke and his Oline intact). 

So we passed on a couple of QBs this year. But do you know that we passed on them because of Hack's presence? Aside from just assuming that, there is no proof that we passed on any QBs this past year because of Hack. By all accounts, the organization wasn't very high on Hack (which is why we got Mccown because we couldn't trust either Petty or Hack to  be competent enough to start). It's just as likely we passed on Watson/Mahommes etc because Macc didn't love them. 
 

You can hate on Hack all you want, but a 2nd round bust is a 2nd round bust. You're treating Hack like we traded away 5 draft picks to move up to the #1 overall to get him and now our franchise is ruined. 

 

In the 2015 draft, the Rams took Sean Mannion in the 3rd round. Did that prevent them from taking Goff 1 overall in the following years draft? 

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I love Macc lovers minimizing the Hack disaster 

Hackenberg is no different than all the 1st round busts we've had and no different than DuCasse,Hill,D.Smith,G.Smith we don't draft well. 

We need football educated and minded people in here and if Woody and Chris Johnson don't want to pay them then sell the damn team already.

[rillo]

Seems like a raw deal, but whatevs