Josh Allen

[BCJet]

So I watched 4 or 5 games worth of throws by Josh Allen today on Draftbreakdown, had a few thoughts...

1.  He should be compared more to a Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton then to someone like Mayfield/Rosen as he really is an exceptional runner and will be used in that manner in the NFL.

2.  He does have some accuracy issues and his mechanics aren't great, mostly because he can do so much with his arm, but he is NOT Hackenberg.  He makes accurate passes on a regular basis whereas Hack was always iffy with his ball placement even when he completed passes.

3.  Comparing him to Wentz is very fair as he is tough to bring down behind the LOS, and the biggest question I have after looking at Wentz's game logs is how he would have fared facing teams like Bosise State and Oregon where Allen struggled.  NDSU was good, but likely also would have gotten wentz crushed against teams like oregon.

4.  I can see how he will be picked high.  His arm talent is really off the charts, and he is a very good runner both athletically and instinctively.

All in all, I like him more then I did before watching the breakdowns (i didnt see much of Allen in the regular season) and there is a lot more to work with then what Hack has from an accuracy and talent standpoint.  His bowl performance will be really interesting to see - 4pm on Friday.

[KRL]

Allen is my least favorite QB in this draft class.  Scouts and evaluators will love him because he's
"toolsy" and they will project him to live up to those tools on the pro level.  I just don't see it,
granted the talent level around him this year wasn't great but a big time QB prospect should be able
to lift his team.  Allen failed miserably against good competition (Iowa & Oregon) and didn't dominate
against teams similar to Wyoming.  I hope the Jets stay far away from him

[Philc1]

Pass

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, KRL said:

Allen is my least favorite QB in this draft class.  Scouts and evaluators will love him because he's
"toolsy" and they will project him to live up to those tools on the pro level.  I just don't see it,
granted the talent level around him this year wasn't great but a big time QB prospect should be able
to lift his team.  Allen failed miserably against good competition (Iowa & Oregon) and didn't dominate
against teams similar to Wyoming.  I hope the Jets stay far away from him

Only 56% completion percentage facing mostly scrub schools.  That’s Hack-like

 

He will be a top 10 pick because he’s a phenomenal athlete but I’d rather offer the farm for Darnold or sit put and roll dice with Lamar Jackson who had a 60% completion rate facing top competition every week

 

[bla bla bla]

If somehow we miss out on Cousins, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Jackson and Allen is on the board when we pick then I'd pull the trigger. If this many GMs have him as a top rated QB who am I to argue. I think he still brings hope to this team but the excitement factor would be no where near the other 5.

[MDL_JET]

Wyoming QB Josh Allen is one of the most polarizing players in the scouting community, and he'll be back in the spotlight on Friday in the Potato Bowl vs. Central Michigan.

Allen's name comes up all the time when I'm talking to NFL evaluators. Some of them absolutely love his game, while others have major concerns. To illustrate that point, I reached out to 5 NFL executives and asked for their pro comparison after they studied Allen. Here are their answers.

Executive 1: Ben Roethlisberger 
"He reminds me of Ben coming out (of college). Similar size, athleticism, playmaking ability and decision-making. Allen actually has a stronger arm."

Executive 2: Jake Locker 
"I actually think there are some similarities to his game that will remind people of all three QBs taken early in the 2011 draft (Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbertand Locker). However, he reminds me more of Locker than the other two. Immensely talented athlete with a big arm but I question his accuracy. Major boom-or-bust prospect."

Executive 3: Locker
"I hope I'm wrong but I see a lot of Jake Locker in his play. He's taller, obviously. You can't ask for more physical tools. However, I have major concerns about his field vision and accuracy. He is a classic boom-bust guy."

Executive 4: Cam Newton 
"There isn't one specific guy that comes to mind. I'd probably say a lesser version of Cam Newton. He's a big, raw athlete that flashes 'wow' plays. Huge arm, can run, throw on the move and extend plays. His accuracy and mechanics are a concern. Big upside. Love the prospect."

Summary: That's two votes for Locker and one apiece for Lynch, Newton and Roethlisberger.

Conclusion: See what I mean? The comparisons are all over the place, from Locker -- a draft bust -- to Roethlisberger -- a two-time Super Bowl champion. Allen is truly a glass-half-full or glass-half-empty prospect. Evaluators that love him speak of his size, arm strength and athleticism while his skeptics point out issues with accuracy and decision-making. Personally, I think he will need some time to develop whenever he chooses to move on to the next level, but he's a worthy project to invest in.

 

All it sounds like is people know there's major issues with him but don't wanna be the ones to pass up on a huge talent that turns into something great.   They get excited about the big flashy plays he does make and say "holy sh, imagine if we can get him to fix this and that...we'd be in business". Unfortunately that usually never works out. 

[Lupz27]

21 hours ago, BCJet said:

So I watched 4 or 5 games worth of throws by Josh Allen today on Draftbreakdown, had a few thoughts...

1.  He should be compared more to a Lamar Jackson or Cam Newton then to someone like Mayfield/Rosen as he really is an exceptional runner and will be used in that manner in the NFL.

2.  He does have some accuracy issues and his mechanics aren't great, mostly because he can do so much with his arm, but he is NOT Hackenberg.  He makes accurate passes on a regular basis whereas Hack was always iffy with his ball placement even when he completed passes.

3.  Comparing him to Wentz is very fair as he is tough to bring down behind the LOS, and the biggest question I have after looking at Wentz's game logs is how he would have fared facing teams like Bosise State and Oregon where Allen struggled.  NDSU was good, but likely also would have gotten wentz crushed against teams like oregon.

4.  I can see how he will be picked high.  His arm talent is really off the charts, and he is a very good runner both athletically and instinctively.

All in all, I like him more then I did before watching the breakdowns (i didnt see much of Allen in the regular season) and there is a lot more to work with then what Hack has from an accuracy and talent standpoint.  His bowl performance will be really interesting to see - 4pm on Friday.

The main issue I have with Allen is he is NOT a plug and play QB, he needs a year most likely to learn and develop if not more so he really isn’t what the Jets are looking for I can’t sit through another Fitz McCown type QB year just can’t.

Also comparing him to Wentz is impossible Wentz has a photographic memory so learning the playbook, and defenses when watching film is so easy for him which separates him from any of these prospects coming in by Miles because of it and his willingness to put in the time off the field studying this stuff.

[derp]

Seems like he's right in Maccagnan's wheelhouse of traits he likes to go after. Will be interesting to see if he pivots based on the complete and utter lack of success he's had drafting QB's or wants to go to the well again.

Also seems like there's a good chance he'll be the top QB available when the Jets pick. Likely him or Mayfield.

I like our offensive coaching staff. Not sure if I trust them enough to develop someone like Allen, but I like this group more than I have in a while.

I've always thought the Jets would be best with a big, strong armed QB since they play outside in cold weather so much late in the year. I honestly have no idea if Mayfield has any track record outside in harsh conditions but that'd be interesting to check out (I need to watch more but on paper I like the idea of Mayfield here).

I guess the nice thing about Allen is there's no middle ground really. He gets his three years and he's either completely incompetent or you've got your franchise QB. Major dice roll.

Also entirely possible they sign Cousins and this is all moot.

[BCJet]

31 minutes ago, derp said:

Seems like he's right in Maccagnan's wheelhouse of traits he likes to go after. Will be interesting to see if he pivots based on the complete and utter lack of success he's had drafting QB's or wants to go to the well again.

Also seems like there's a good chance he'll be the top QB available when the Jets pick. Likely him or Mayfield.

I like our offensive coaching staff. Not sure if I trust them enough to develop someone like Allen, but I like this group more than I have in a while.

I've always thought the Jets would be best with a big, strong armed QB since they play outside in cold weather so much late in the year. I honestly have no idea if Mayfield has any track record outside in harsh conditions but that'd be interesting to check out (I need to watch more but on paper I like the idea of Mayfield here).

I guess the nice thing about Allen is there's no middle ground really. He gets his three years and he's either completely incompetent or you've got your franchise QB. Major dice roll.

Also entirely possible they sign Cousins and this is all moot.

Mayfield has experience playing in the cold weather, the bigger issue with him though will be hand size as far as holding the ball in the cold.

This was written about him on rotoworld which I found interesting:

Allen suffered the sprained throwing shoulder on Nov. 11 against Air Force. Up until then, Wyoming was 7-3 and averaging 35.0 ppg against Group of 5 teams. In the two games Nick Smith started, Wyoming lost to Fresno St. and lowly San Jose St. while averaging an ugly 12.0 ppg. With Allen healthy, the Cowboys went three-and-out on 27.5-percent of its drives. With Allen out, they've done so on 42.1-percent of drives. Simply put, without Allen, Wyoming has arguably the FBS' worst offense.

Personally I prefer mayfield and would be thrilled to have him as a Jet, especially if the choice came down to him or allen.  The thing is though that opinions tend to sway to far in a direction and then too far back in the opposite - i.e., this kid allen is not Hack and I think there is a greater chance of success with him then most people think as of today.

[bla bla bla]

Allen scares me too much, I think you need to go with a winner. Mayfield checks off a lot of boxes for us except the body structure that Macc likes. I'm interested to see how much weight Morton will have on the decision because with Brees in his background there could be a high likelyhood that Mayfield is an option. I think the NFL would salivate if the Jets got Mayfield because his is the young, passionate, QB that looks like he's playing football for the fun of it. 

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Wyoming QB Josh Allen is one of the most polarizing players in the scouting community, and he'll be back in the spotlight on Friday in the Potato Bowl vs. Central Michigan.

Allen's name comes up all the time when I'm talking to NFL evaluators. Some of them absolutely love his game, while others have major concerns. To illustrate that point, I reached out to 5 NFL executives and asked for their pro comparison after they studied Allen. Here are their answers.

Executive 1: Ben Roethlisberger 
"He reminds me of Ben coming out (of college). Similar size, athleticism, playmaking ability and decision-making. Allen actually has a stronger arm."

Executive 2: Jake Locker 
"I actually think there are some similarities to his game that will remind people of all three QBs taken early in the 2011 draft (Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbertand Locker). However, he reminds me more of Locker than the other two. Immensely talented athlete with a big arm but I question his accuracy. Major boom-or-bust prospect."

Executive 3: Locker
"I hope I'm wrong but I see a lot of Jake Locker in his play. He's taller, obviously. You can't ask for more physical tools. However, I have major concerns about his field vision and accuracy. He is a classic boom-bust guy."

Executive 4: Cam Newton 
"There isn't one specific guy that comes to mind. I'd probably say a lesser version of Cam Newton. He's a big, raw athlete that flashes 'wow' plays. Huge arm, can run, throw on the move and extend plays. His accuracy and mechanics are a concern. Big upside. Love the prospect."

Summary: That's two votes for Locker and one apiece for Lynch, Newton and Roethlisberger.

Conclusion: See what I mean? The comparisons are all over the place, from Locker -- a draft bust -- to Roethlisberger -- a two-time Super Bowl champion. Allen is truly a glass-half-full or glass-half-empty prospect. Evaluators that love him speak of his size, arm strength and athleticism while his skeptics point out issues with accuracy and decision-making. Personally, I think he will need some time to develop whenever he chooses to move on to the next level, but he's a worthy project to invest in.

 

All it sounds like is people know there's major issues with him but don't wanna be the ones to pass up on a huge talent that turns into something great.   They get excited about the big flashy plays he does make and say "holy sh, imagine if we can get him to fix this and that...we'd be in business". Unfortunately that usually never works out. 

Jake Locker is an excellent comparison 

 

No wonder Macagnan is jizzing over this guy

[Philc1]

15 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Allen scares me too much, I think you need to go with a winner. Mayfield checks off a lot of boxes for us except the body structure that Macc likes. I'm interested to see how much weight Morton will have on the decision because with Brees in his background there could be a high likelyhood that Mayfield is an option. I think the NFL would salivate if the Jets got Mayfield because his is the young, passionate, QB that looks like he's playing football for the fun of it. 

The media would love Mayfield because he’d be an epic train pileup wreck here.  Worse than Sanchez

 

 

Mayfield will go from college football’s best OL to our crappy turnstile OL. Oh and wait til he starts partying in New York. It’s almost going to be fun to watch

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

Mayfield has experience playing in the cold weather, the bigger issue with him though will be hand size as far as holding the ball in the cold.

This was written about him on rotoworld which I found interesting:

Allen suffered the sprained throwing shoulder on Nov. 11 against Air Force. Up until then, Wyoming was 7-3 and averaging 35.0 ppg against Group of 5 teams. In the two games Nick Smith started, Wyoming lost to Fresno St. and lowly San Jose St. while averaging an ugly 12.0 ppg. With Allen healthy, the Cowboys went three-and-out on 27.5-percent of its drives. With Allen out, they've done so on 42.1-percent of drives. Simply put, without Allen, Wyoming has arguably the FBS' worst offense.

Personally I prefer mayfield and would be thrilled to have him as a Jet, especially if the choice came down to him or allen.  The thing is though that opinions tend to sway to far in a direction and then too far back in the opposite - i.e., this kid allen is not Hack and I think there is a greater chance of success with him then most people think as of today.

Dude, he was awful in those games before the injury. He did his best not to win games. Did he even light up an FCS school? Some people think Allen has upside to be mined. Others say "seen this show before a 10000 times. buuuust."... 

Either way he should not be in the 1st round conversation. Not by a country mile. That's biggest beef besides the accuracy of blind Hackenberg.

 

He's playing in the bowl game. So there's that. Don't think he'll show to Senior bowl because he sucks. 

 

[Adoni Beast]

We do not have the head coach or organizational structure to develop a player with his raw ability, and refine his skills. He would fail here just as Hack has.

[maury77]

15 hours ago, Paradis said:

Dude, he was awful in those games before the injury. He did his best not to win games. Did he even light up an FCS school? Some people think Allen has upside to be mined. Others say "seen this show before a 10000 times. buuuust."... 

Either way he should not be in the 1st round conversation. Not by a country mile. That's biggest beef besides the accuracy of blind Hackenberg.

 

He's playing in the bowl game. So there's that. Don't think he'll show to Senior bowl because he sucks. 

 

I don't think Allen is as inaccurate as Hackenberg. In college (and the pros), Hackenberg is inaccurate at all levels of the field. Allen's coaches dial up tough throw after tough throw for the kid. When you watch Wyoming, they throw an inordinate number of deep throws and throws to the far hashmark (which show up as a short pass on the stat sheet, but you still have to fling them 30-40 yards across the field). I think Allen is better than you give him credit for, but I don't want him in the first round either. 

[Philc1]

23 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I don't think Allen is as inaccurate as Hackenberg. In college (and the pros), Hackenberg is inaccurate at all levels of the field. Allen's coaches dial up tough throw after tough throw for the kid. When you watch Wyoming, they throw an inordinate number of deep throws and throws to the far hashmark (which show up as a short pass on the stat sheet, but you still have to fling them 30-40 yards across the field). I think Allen is better than you give him credit for, but I don't want him in the first round either. 

Literally no one is as inaccurate as Hack.  He had a 53% completion rate his last year in Penn State and Macagnan actually thought he needed to use a second round pick to get him

[BCJet]

16 hours ago, Paradis said:

Dude, he was awful in those games before the injury. He did his best not to win games. Did he even light up an FCS school? Some people think Allen has upside to be mined. Others say "seen this show before a 10000 times. buuuust."... 

Either way he should not be in the 1st round conversation. Not by a country mile. That's biggest beef besides the accuracy of blind Hackenberg.

 

He's playing in the bowl game. So there's that. Don't think he'll show to Senior bowl because he sucks. 

 

I totally get what you are saying, and Im not a huge allen guy by any means, just trying to present some info on him on the draft board to further the discussion without the thread turning into everyone hating on Mac, etc.

I do agree he isnt as inaccurate as Hackenberg and he is a much more fluid athlete as well.

[FTL Jet Fan]

Mac is clearly executive # 1

[JiFtheOracle]

He plays at 4pm today.  I'm leaving work a little early, plan on tuning in.  Surprised he's playing to be honest.  If I were a potential 1st round pick, I think I'd be sitting out of the Famous Idaho Potato Bowl. 

[Stark]

Drafting Allen would be a huge mistake as I have said a lot. His issues are not ones that historically improve with increased competition. Kid is inaccurate, doesn't carry his team, seems to play small against competition. 

If we draft Allen you can mark down another 4 years of losing because as much as he has a great arm, and is athletic he won't all of a sudden gain Mayfield's confidence and accuracy , Rosen's Arm and technique and accuracy, Darnolds grit and playmaking/throwing placement ability, or Jackson's for that. 

We are not the team that can afford to gamble on another kid like this. The locker comparison is freaking dead on, Locker would make a few throws and plays a game in TN that was like, " man, this kid is going to be awesome" but then the other 85% of the game happened and he's out of the league in 4 years

[Paradis]

5 hours ago, maury77 said:

I don't think Allen is as inaccurate as Hackenberg. In college (and the pros), Hackenberg is inaccurate at all levels of the field. Allen's coaches dial up tough throw after tough throw for the kid. When you watch Wyoming, they throw an inordinate number of deep throws and throws to the far hashmark (which show up as a short pass on the stat sheet, but you still have to fling them 30-40 yards across the field). I think Allen is better than you give him credit for, but I don't want him in the first round either. 

Some push back is probably warranted -- my posts speak to Allen as though he's the worst thing since Jimmy Clausen... which he isnt.

2 things just can't get over--

1) Why is he a 1st rnd prospect? Seriously. He was maybe a round 2-3 guy last year when his team carried him, and then all of sudden in the summer while playing NO FOOTBALL WHATSOEVER he's a top 10, why? Because he could moonlight as a WWE superstar? Then he plays the worst football of his career, and people are making excuses for him... like wtf.

2) If someone rapes you, and your next partner is agressive - you're likely to have an adverse reaction. Hackenberg. Allen. that is all.  

[Pcola]

On 12/21/2017 at 8:56 AM, bla bla bla said:

If somehow we miss out on Cousins, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and Jackson and Allen is on the board when we pick then I'd pull the trigger. If this many GMs have him as a top rated QB who am I to argue. I think he still brings hope to this team but the excitement factor would be no where near the other 5.

If this happens, Macc should be fired the minute a team in front of us takes the last of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson, thus negating a franchise crippling pick like Allen.

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

If this happens, Macc should be fired the minute a team in front of us takes the last of Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson, thus negating a franchise crippling pick like Allen.

I think this is the biggest difference between Hack and Allen - no one had Hack in the first or second round yet there are definitely 10 GMs who think Allen is a first rounder.  Its an inexact science, so ill take 25-33% chance on allen if thats what is left after Rosen and Darnold

[Pcola]

3 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I think this is the biggest difference between Hack and Allen - no one had Hack in the first or second round yet there are definitely 10 GMs who think Allen is a first rounder.  Its an inexact science, so ill take 25-33% chance on allen if thats what is left after Rosen and Darnold

There may be 10 GMs that think he’s going in the first round.  Are any o those GMs going to pick him?  The GM that drafts Allen in the first round, will be unemployed by the end of his second year. Ozzie Newsome included.

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, BCJet said:

I think this is the biggest difference between Hack and Allen - no one had Hack in the first or second round yet there are definitely 10 GMs who think Allen is a first rounder.  Its an inexact science, so ill take 25-33% chance on allen if thats what is left after Rosen and Darnold

I have the same thought process only I'd rather have Cousins, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield and then Allen/Jackson is a coin flip with time favoring Jackson. I don't care who we deem as "the guy" as long as we go out and make sure we get him.

[sourceworx]

If Rosen, Jackson, and Mayfield are taken, then I'm fine with taking Allen. Better than taking a safety.

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

If Rosen, Jackson, and Mayfield are taken, then I'm fine with taking Allen. Better than taking a safety.

I think I'd rather roll with Jackson over Allen. I think both have an equal opportunity to bust hard but I think Jackson is a more dangerous weapon.

[MDL_JET]

4 hours ago, sourceworx said:

If Rosen, Jackson, and Mayfield are taken, then I'm fine with taking Allen. Better than taking a safety.

Chubb, start Hack. Tank for 2019 QB. Magical off season. 

[sourceworx]

2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Chubb, start Hack. Tank for 2019 QB. Magical off season. 

Next year's draft always looks better than this year's. Been that way as long as I can remember.

Take a QB now. You can always take another one next year.

[JiFtheOracle]

I'm not going to pretend like I've watched a bunch of Josh Allen.  I did watch that bowl game and he does have some insanely incredible raw talent.  Dude is an athlete with about as live of an arm as you can get. 

That said, when was the last time a prospect like him with so many questions marks panned out?   Toolsy QB's are always going to catch scouts eyes but it also what leads you to Paxton Lynch and Christian Hackenberg.  I just think you need to be more polished coming into the league than Allen.  The examples of the raw, inconsistent QB's in college actually making it in the NFL are rare to it's actually never happened unless someone has an example they'd like to share? 

[Stark]

 

I think Allen is Jake Locker, this article says Logan Thomas. I think the locker or Thomas comps are far more likely than Big Ben,or Cam. The fact that Allen has great physical tools is awesome, unfortunately he plays like garbage the minute he steps on a field against a decent team. Completion % is not good when you consider over half his games are against low level competition  he has low completion %, throws a lot of interceptions, and you can tell he isn’t comfortable playing from the pocket (which is funny when people use the “he plays in a pro style offense”)  Allen just has too many issues for me to be comfortable with the JETS drafting him.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/12/22/josh-allen-2018-nfl-draft-ben-roethlisberger-wyoming/

 

The NFL regular season has less than 10 days left, and once it ends, we enter the silly season of the NFL Draft. It’s the silly season because nobody knows anything, but everyone pretends to be in the know.

Because so many NFL teams are in dire need of a QB, and because there are plenty of quarterbacks who will be entering the draft, you’re going to hear some silly things.

Basically, anything about Wyoming QB Josh Allen will be silly. Like this!

Why does it have to be Ben Roethlisberger? Why not Logan Thomas, the former Virginia Tech QB?

Ben Roethliseberger (6-foot-5, 240 pounds) at Miami (OH)
Freshman: 63.3% comp, 8.1 ypa, 25 TD, 13 INT
Sophomore: 63.3% comp, 7.6 ypa, 22 TD, 11 INT
Junior: 69.1% comp, 9.1 ypa, 37 TD, 10 INT

Logan Thomas (6-foot-6, 250 pounds) at Virginia Tech
Sophomore: 59.8% comp, 7.7 ypa, 19 TD, 10 INT
Junior: 51.3% comp, 6.9 ypa, 18 TD, 16 INT
Senior: 56.5% comp, 7.2 ypa, 15 TD, 13 INT

Josh Allen (6-foot-5, 233 pounds) at Wyoming
Sophomore: 56% comp, 8.6 ypa, 28 TD, 15 INT
Junior: 56.2% comp, 6.6 ypa, 13 TD, 6 INT

Yes, Josh Allen played in a meaningless Bowl Game and looked sharp in 17 throws against the mighty Central Michigan defense. Get excited, Josh Allen fans.

Mentioning Josh Allen in the same breath of Ben Roethlisberger for any reason is disrespectful to the Steelers future Hall of Fame QB. A much more accurate comp is former Virginia Tech QB Logan Thomas, who tantalized scouts with his measureables, was drafted by Arizona, and now plays tight end for the Buffalo Bills