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Jets Teammates "Optimistic" on Hackenberg

southtown24th

By southtown24th
in NY Jets Forum

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BurnleyJet

BurnleyJet

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Hackenberg selection is going to be in the first two sentences of the Mike Maccagnan career obituary. It’s the one rare pick where you can’t spin an argument for ever making it in the first place. Literally everyone—from his head coach, to the scouts, to the analytics people, to the mom’s basement draft-bloggers—knew he’d be bad, and he’s actually performed worse than even the most grim pre-draft predictions asserted. If you’re so inclined, you can make crediblr cases for picking Milliner, Gholston, Darron Lee, even guys like Stephen Hill. But Hackenberg was unconscionable and, imo, should instill raw terror into anyone who believes Mike Maccagnan should get the chance to draft another QB. 

I cant wait for the "Josh Allen has all the tools" lines to come out, except the mental acuity to play QB. Then spend the next 3 years trying to play him until we draft another one.

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Freemanm

Freemanm

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Posted
1 hour ago, BCJet said:

It is beyond belief that this organization wont start him for at least one game, completely ridiculous.

I agree it would do no harm but most would agree that Petty's lack of talent marginally makes him a back up, and Hack is even worse. So I guess an argument could be made either way. 

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jeremy2020

jeremy2020

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

If Mac trades up to get Josh Allen he should be hung by his testicles and punched in the face by IK Enemkpali

Man, IK Ekampali should be on this team just. Think of the value if he just broke Hack's jaw. Bowles wouldn't have to tap dance around how terrible he is..and could start McFitzownrick all he wants..

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varjet

varjet

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

The Hackenberg selection is going to be in the first two sentences of the Mike Maccagnan career obituary. It’s the one rare pick where you can’t spin an argument for ever making it in the first place. Literally everyone—from his head coach, to the scouts, to the analytics people, to the mom’s basement draft-bloggers—knew he’d be bad, and he’s actually performed worse than even the most grim pre-draft predictions asserted. If you’re so inclined, you can make crediblr cases for picking Milliner, Gholston, Darron Lee, even guys like Stephen Hill. But Hackenberg was unconscionable and, imo, should instill raw terror into anyone who believes Mike Maccagnan should get the chance to draft another QB. 

I agree completely with this, particularly when you see some of the players he passed on to draft Hack.  Yes, you need to roll the dice on a potential QB, but with Hack potential NFL QB was a real stretch.  The PFF write up is just damning.

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

mccags' problem isn't hackenberg.  the bigger failures that will bury him will be that he 1) passed on watson, and 2) didn't get aggressive in this draft and get allen.  it's one thing to screw up a 2nd round pick, it's another to fail getting a qb in round 1 when you have consecutive top 10 picks.  

The jury is still out with Watson, and Allen will need a solid coaching structure-he is like a Flacco.  He is a bottom of the 1st round pick who will need to learn the NFL game and have a system designed for him.

49 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

I'm ok with BPA available to a point but in that scenario you need to weigh the value of the position.  For instance, if you have a D-Tackle ranked slightly better than say a CB you would think you would steer more towards that CB vs. the D-Tackle just because it's just a more valuable position in today's NFL.  Obviously this also applies to the QB.  Not that you want to reach for a player you don't believe in because that just sets the organization back further but you also have to take some risk.  This is something I hope Macc has learned

BPA does not always work, as we know.  This draft is just frought with peril-the BPA could easily be a S, G or WR.   The smartest thing to do in this draft is trade down.

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

The Hackenberg selection is going to be in the first two sentences of the Mike Maccagnan career obituary. It’s the one rare pick where you can’t spin an argument for ever making it in the first place. Literally everyone—from his head coach, to the scouts, to the analytics people, to the mom’s basement draft-bloggers—knew he’d be bad, and he’s actually performed worse than even the most grim pre-draft predictions asserted. If you’re so inclined, you can make crediblr cases for picking Milliner, Gholston, Darron Lee, even guys like Stephen Hill. But Hackenberg was unconscionable and, imo, should instill raw terror into anyone who believes Mike Maccagnan should get the chance to draft another QB. 

This is a really good post. I wish it wasn't but it is.

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Maxman

Maxman

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

I agree it would do no harm but most would agree that Petty's lack of talent marginally makes him a back up, and Hack is even worse. So I guess an argument could be made either way. 

Yeah I don't know how the practices are going but you have to assume Petty is playing much better than Hack. Which is scary because Petty isn't good.

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HawkeyeJet

HawkeyeJet

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Posted

I don't think Hack will ever be a remote answer, and I don't know what teammates would be expected say when asked about him.

That said, I don't get why this upsets people.  Like people actually get rattled that anyone might suggest he may show a glimmer of hope.

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Stark

Stark

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Posted

 

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

mccags' problem isn't hackenberg.  the bigger failures that will bury him will be that he 1) passed on watson, and 2) didn't get aggressive in this draft and get allen.  it's one thing to screw up a 2nd round pick, it's another to fail getting a qb in round 1 when you have consecutive top 10 picks.  

 

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Allen? 

 

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

yes, i believe that will be mccags target, and another team like denver or arizona will be more aggressive and get him.  then mccags will avoid mayfield and jackson and default to the best defensive player available strategy again.

Jos Allen is garbage, will be garbage and should not be traded up for. His issues are BIG issues especially transitioning to NFL from College, those issues do not improve, historically... Good lord I am sick of hearing about Josh Allen. 

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56mehl56

56mehl56

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

mccags' problem isn't hackenberg.  the bigger failures that will bury him will be that he 1) passed on watson, and 2) didn't get aggressive in this draft and get allen.  it's one thing to screw up a 2nd round pick, it's another to fail getting a qb in round 1 when you have consecutive top 10 picks.  

If he drafted Watson he would have been sitting on the bench this season as Josh gave us the best chance to win. Doesn't everyone see its obvious that Bowles is the issue. If he was in O'Briens shoes Savage would have played the entire year until he was injured.  Its what happens when you have a HC that believes as long as his D can keep it close he just needs a game manager at QB. Hack and Petty may prove to be NFL busts but you need a HC with some cajones to play a younger QB - Bowles is not that guy, I had hope , gave him many chances but he continues to employ the same mantra of let's keep games close .

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Augustiniak

Augustiniak

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58 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Yeah I don't know how the practices are going but you have to assume Petty is playing much better than Hack. Which is scary because Petty isn't good.

with bowles, you can't assume this.  for all we know, hack may look better than petty in practices, and this is the players' attempts to communicate this.  

all we as fans really know is what we see. and we see petty sucking.  he is quoted in the papers as being disappointed with his footwork, 3 years into the league he can't come close to fixing this.  his accuracy is concerning.  he was using madden to learn defenses.  being a nice guy isn't cutting it here.  it would be great if we could also see hackenberg once, but i doubt it.

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Augustiniak

Augustiniak

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Posted
4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

If he drafted Watson he would have been sitting on the bench this season as Josh gave us the best chance to win. Doesn't everyone see its obvious that Bowles is the issue. If he was in O'Briens shoes Savage would have played the entire year until he was injured.  Its what happens when you have a HC that believes as long as his D can keep it close he just needs a game manager at QB. Hack and Petty may prove to be NFL busts but you need a HC with some cajones to play a younger QB - Bowles is not that guy, I had hope , gave him many chances but he continues to employ the same mantra of let's keep games close .

bowles is not the issue.  mccagnan is the one who signed mccown.  if mccagnan gave bowles only petty and hackenberg, or watson and hackenberg, then bowles would have to play one of those guys.

the real problem IMO is that mccagnan doesn't have much faith in the qbs he's drafted, so he's hedged with veterans.  if he had the balls to go all in with a qb in the top of the first round, he wouldn't sign someone like mccown and the team would sink or swim.  as would mccagnan.  but mccagnan would rather tread water with a life vest in the shape of josh mccown.

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56mehl56

56mehl56

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

bowles is not the issue.  mccagnan is the one who signed mccown.  if mccagnan gave bowles only petty and hackenberg, or watson and hackenberg, then bowles would have to play one of those guys.

the real problem IMO is that mccagnan doesn't have much faith in the qbs he's drafted, so he's hedged with veterans.  if he had the balls to go all in with a qb in the top of the first round, he wouldn't sign someone like mccown and the team would sink or swim.  as would mccagnan.  but mccagnan would rather tread water with a life vest in the shape of josh mccown.

If Bowles had two young Qb's you'd see 90% runs each game, Bowles is the problem as he coaches afraid to lose.  McCown should have been there as an insurance policy or at best someone who could get the offense on the same page for a few games before transitioning over to Petty/Hack. If Bowles has control over game day decisions he could have easily started Petty or Hack instead he chose to go with McCown - that is on Bowles.

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varjet

varjet

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3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

If Bowles had two young Qb's you'd see 90% runs each game, Bowles is the problem as he coaches afraid to lose.  McCown should have been there as an insurance policy or at best someone who could get the offense on the same page for a few games before transitioning over to Petty/Hack. If Bowles has control over game day decisions he could have easily started Petty or Hack instead he chose to go with McCown - that is on Bowles.

There are many threads talking about Mac, Bowles, Hack, McCown, etc.

The Jets are likely 5-11 this year, like last year, because of their owners and the structure and expectations they create.   The problems will not be solved by Bowles being smarter, hiring a better DC, or Mac drafting a QB at 9.  The problems will be solved when the management approach to the team is changed, and owners realize that football comes first.  

Until then, we will wallow around in mediocrity.

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56mehl56

56mehl56

Posted
Posted
Just now, varjet said:

There are many threads talking about Mac, Bowles, Hack, McCown, etc.

The Jets are likely 5-11 this year, like last year, because of their owners and the structure and expectations they create.   The problems will not be solved by Bowles being smarter, hiring a better DC, or Mac drafting a QB at 9.  The problems will be solved when the management approach to the team is changed, and owners realize that football comes first.  

Until then, we will wallow around in mediocrity.

The NFL today is geared toward offenses - when was the last HC we had from that side of the ball.

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56mehl56

56mehl56

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Posted
Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

This roster is plenty offensive

Yep, but let's punt down by 11 in the 4th quarter because its better to lose by a smaller margin. When was the last trick play the Jets ran on offense (outside of trying to sneak 12 guys into the huddle) . This team should be throwing caution to the wind and playing loose , yet our HC thinks we're playing for a Wildcard draw - memo to Todd - we've been eliminated.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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Posted
Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Yep, but let's punt down by 11 in the 4th quarter because its better to lose by a smaller margin. When was the last trick play the Jets ran on offense (outside of trying to sneak 12 guys into the huddle) . This team should be throwing caution to the wind and playing loose , yet our HC thinks we're playing for a Wildcard draw - memo to Todd - we've been eliminated.

These 2 things can both be bad

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CrazyCarl40

CrazyCarl40

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Hackenberg selection is going to be in the first two sentences of the Mike Maccagnan career obituary. It’s the one rare pick where you can’t spin an argument for ever making it in the first place. Literally everyone—from his head coach, to the scouts, to the analytics people, to the mom’s basement draft-bloggers—knew he’d be bad, and he’s actually performed worse than even the most grim pre-draft predictions asserted. If you’re so inclined, you can make crediblr cases for picking Milliner, Gholston, Darron Lee, even guys like Stephen Hill. But Hackenberg was unconscionable and, imo, should instill raw terror into anyone who believes Mike Maccagnan should get the chance to draft another QB. 

Worse, he’s compounded the mistake by choosing to ignore the position in hopes that they can make something of the kid. It’s obvious they can’t. And they ignored a decent QB draft class and the opportunity to suck on the cheap this year for a shot at a real QB this draft. He should be fired hastily this season. Period. 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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Posted
8 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yep, but let's punt down by 11 in the 4th quarter because its better to lose by a smaller margin. When was the last trick play the Jets ran on offense (outside of trying to sneak 12 guys into the huddle) . This team should be throwing caution to the wind and playing loose , yet our HC thinks we're playing for a Wildcard draw - memo to Todd - we've been eliminated.

This might be my favorite line in the history of this board. lmfao

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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Posted

Literally none of these "optimistic" teammates expressed optimism.

Nicest compliment came from Maye, who said he threw balls at him, and then topped off the optimism by saying you could tell he's actually trying.

Otherwise it was a bunch of carefully-worded compliments that don't say he's actually any good, like finding different ways of saying he's improved over last year.

Of course, 19 degrees being warmer than 3 degrees doesn't therefore mean it isn't still ****ing freezing outside. So he's moved up from impossibly atrocious, and now is merely terrible and still unusable. If he was otherwise there would be plenty of leaks.

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

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22 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Worse, he’s compounded the mistake by choosing to ignore the position in hopes that they can make something of the kid. It’s obvious they can’t. And they ignored a decent QB draft class and the opportunity to suck on the cheap this year for a shot at a real QB this draft. He should be fired hastily this season. Period. 

Lol, he's sticking around and I'll love seeing you guys cry about him for another season. That Sheldon Richardson trade was just awful. LMAO

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

If Bowles had two young Qb's you'd see 90% runs each game, Bowles is the problem as he coaches afraid to lose.  McCown should have been there as an insurance policy or at best someone who could get the offense on the same page for a few games before transitioning over to Petty/Hack. If Bowles has control over game day decisions he could have easily started Petty or Hack instead he chose to go with McCown - that is on Bowles.

I mean i'd be pretty afraid if I was told I have to start Petty or Hack as my QB too. But seriously...if I was a HC and im trying to build something good, establish a good winning culture...I'm playing the guy that is gonna move the offense and give me some hope. It's not Bowles fault that a 38 yr old QB is the only decent option. They tried to see with Hack. That failed, miserably. So it was McCown. 

You talk about transitioning to them mid season but how do you do that when you transition to something much less? It's not as if they're handing it off to first round pick. 

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