Jets Teammates "Optimistic" on Hackenberg

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I mean i'd be pretty afraid if I was told I have to start Petty or Hack as my QB too. But seriously...if I was a HC and im trying to build something good, establish a good winning culture...I'm playing the guy that is gonna move the offense and give me some hope. It's not Bowles fault that a 38 yr old QB is the only decent option. They tried to see with Hack. That failed, miserably. So it was McCown. 

You talk about transitioning to them mid season but how do you do that when you transition to something much less? It's not as if they're handing it off to first round pick. 

Agreed. I was in the Suck for Sam mode before just about everyone on this board. And going 5-11 sucks compared to going 1-15 and getting the top pick or 2. But you can't expect an NFL head coach to risk losing his team by starting inferior talent when the team was competitive much of the season. It's not fair to the other guys on the team to let the team implode. Even the Giants didn't go from Eli to Webb, they went to GENO!

In addition, when you try to evaluate players, especially on offense, it's tough to do it when the QB is awful. We've seen some kids develop this year. We have some decent cheap vets, we have a top 10 pick, 2 2nd round picks and a ton of cap space. 

There is plenty of reason to be excited heading into next year....even if Bowles is our HC. 

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Literally everyone—from his head coach, to the scouts, to the analytics people, to the mom’s basement draft-bloggers—knew he’d be bad. 

I'm not here to defend Hack or Mac for drafting him. I Want Mac fired as much as you and the others. But what you wrote above is simply untrue. Literally. There were mostly 2nd -4th round ratings from the main draft guru sites, with  only one or two sites (PFF, for one) labeling him undraftable/bottom of draft.  There is no need to exaggerate or fabricate.  Hack sucks and Mac didn't  see it. No need to embellish this tragedy with exaggerated nonsense.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I mean i'd be pretty afraid if I was told I have to start Petty or Hack as my QB too. But seriously...if I was a HC and im trying to build something good, establish a good winning culture...I'm playing the guy that is gonna move the offense and give me some hope. It's not Bowles fault that a 38 yr old QB is the only decent option. They tried to see with Hack. That failed, miserably. So it was McCown. 

You talk about transitioning to them mid season but how do you do that when you transition to something much less? It's not as if they're handing it off to first round pick. 

Tried to see when, in PS games where no one game plans on either side of the ball and the roster is chock full of guys who will never play another down in the NFL. You can argue maybe Petty was given a shot as he's now had real game action over 2 seasons, but even his games last year came with a team that had flat out quit. Hack has yet to see action in any meaningful game period.

As far as the transition goes it was to see and evaluate what we had at QB behind a 38 year old journeyman. It may well prove out that most here are right and Petty and Hack are garbage , but it would have been nice to have that evaluation done in real live games that mean something not a PS game or games at the end of the season with nothing to play for.

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

I'm not here to defend Hack or Mac for drafting him. I Want Mac fired as much as you and the others. But what you wrote above is simply untrue. Literally. There were mostly 2nd -4th round ratings from the main draft guru sites, with  only one or two sites (PFF, for one) labeling him undraftable/bottom of draft.  There is no need to exaggerate or fabricate.  Hack sucks and Mac didn't  see it. No need to embellish this tragedy with exaggerated nonsense.

Exactly 

[Jetster]

There is nothing I want more than for Christian Hackenberg to never play in a regular season for the Jets, get waived, picked up by a GOOD organization, get a chance & win a f*cking Super Bowl,lol. No fans in the history of this sport deserve a turn of events like that more than Jet fans. I seriously hate everyone of you deeply,lol.

[56mehl56]

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Literally none of these "optimistic" teammates expressed optimism.

Nicest compliment came from Maye, who said he threw balls at him, and then topped off the optimism by saying you could tell he's actually trying.

Otherwise it was a bunch of carefully-worded compliments that don't say he's actually any good, like finding different ways of saying he's improved over last year.

Of course, 19 degrees being warmer than 3 degrees doesn't therefore mean it isn't still ****ing freezing outside. So he's moved up from impossibly atrocious, and now is merely terrible and still unusable. If he was otherwise there would be plenty of leaks.

So compliments equate to not news. If there were even thinly veiled hints that players thought he sucked there would be 100's of posts here reveling in the "facts".

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

What are you defining as the modern era and what is the N we are dealing with?

Since the rules started to favor the passing game, turn of the century time frame.  There are quite a few examples in the 90's Bledsoe, Favre, McNabb, Kerry Collins, Kordell Stewart, Jake Plummer, Matt Hassebleck but literally not a single example since the turn of the century.

Not sure what your N question means?

 

[Warfish]

I'd rather see him play than see him not play.

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

There is nothing I want more than for Christian Hackenberg to never play in a regular season for the Jets, get waived, picked up by a GOOD organization, get a chance & win a f*cking Super Bowl,lol. No fans in the history of this sport deserve a turn of events like that more than Jet fans. I seriously hate everyone of you deeply,lol.

Good? More like MAGICAL.

[MDL_JET]

7 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Tried to see when, in PS games where no one game plans on either side of the ball and the roster is chock full of guys who will never play another down in the NFL. You can argue maybe Petty was given a shot as he's now had real game action over 2 seasons, but even his games last year came with a team that had flat out quit. Hack has yet to see action in any meaningful game period.

As far as the transition goes it was to see and evaluate what we had at QB behind a 38 year old journeyman. It may well prove out that most here are right and Petty and Hack are garbage , but it would have been nice to have that evaluation done in real live games that mean something not a PS game or games at the end of the season with nothing to play for.

Yes pre sesason. When it's BASIC coverages, vanilla defenses and when QBs should have a nice easy time moving an offense. Hack came out and looked like a lost boy. So you want the coach to say "hm....aright f it, lets start the kid!" You're out of your mind. It's great as a fan that wants to tank but in reality? No way. 

The "evaluation" period was done in the off season. And it was clear as day, same as it is now. They're not good. Get this team a QB with a hint of talent and maybe they'd actually be able to consider it. I do think they should have switched to one of them when it was clear they were out of the playoffs. But before that...don't think so.

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Hit me up with a link to these reputable draft shwanks. Gruden is the only one on record who said he liked Hack, but he says that about literally every player who goes on that show.

The sites that ranked him 2nd - 4th were listed in a post yesterday or the day before. Not sure which thread. Frankly, I was surprised by how many. But PFF was the one who called him undraftable for sure.

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Hit me up with a link to these reputable draft shwanks. Gruden is the only one on record who said he liked Hack, but he says that about literally every player who goes on that show.

who is exactly a reputable draft shwank ?

Are we now in the business of listening to guys who make out draft boards ?

Hack was drafted for his elite physical skills nothing more. Its the Jets organization and coaches who have failed and are the sole reason this kid has not seen the field and we have to watch a very less than mediocre Bryce Petty with his terrible pocket presence and fear of throwing the ball past 20 yards down field.

What this team needs and is not going to get is a real look at Hackenberg in a real game situation not the practice team and not the preseason. This is just another notch of Stupidity in Todd Boiwles belt and hes running out of space quickly.

[Smashmouth]

41 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Literally none of these "optimistic" teammates expressed optimism.

Nicest compliment came from Maye, who said he threw balls at him, and then topped off the optimism by saying you could tell he's actually trying.

Otherwise it was a bunch of carefully-worded compliments that don't say he's actually any good, like finding different ways of saying he's improved over last year.

Of course, 19 degrees being warmer than 3 degrees doesn't therefore mean it isn't still ****ing freezing outside. So he's moved up from impossibly atrocious, and now is merely terrible and still unusable. If he was otherwise there would be plenty of leaks.

No they said he was improving ...Improving from what ? we may never know since the Idiot HC refuses to play him and every other team at some point has played their drafted QB. I mean for christs sake can you be any worse than Kizer ? Yet he plays. Why ? So the team can see if he has any shot at all of being an NFL QB. 

Can anyone tell me the last time a QB drafted to be the QB of the future never got one rep in 2 full years ?

[dbatesman]

26 minutes ago, JiF said:

Not sure what your N question means?

[munchmemory]

[56mehl56]

26 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Yes pre sesason. When it's BASIC coverages, vanilla defenses and when QBs should have a nice easy time moving an offense. Hack came out and looked like a lost boy. So you want the coach to say "hm....aright f it, lets start the kid!" You're out of your mind. It's great as a fan that wants to tank but in reality? No way. 

The "evaluation" period was done in the off season. And it was clear as day, same as it is now. They're not good. Get this team a QB with a hint of talent and maybe they'd actually be able to consider it. I do think they should have switched to one of them when it was clear they were out of the playoffs. But before that...don't think so.

And with an offensive line playing 3 new starters learning a new offensive playbook and shuffling players in and out every other series. Hack looked decent in the Tenn game but again I didn't read anything in to that based on the points we both made. 

To me the evaluation process was not done at least not in meaningful games with a stabilized environment. If Hack lit it up in PS , do you have any faith that Bowles would have started him game 1 - not a snowball's chance in hell not with this HC . Oh and I get it he's protecting his livelihood , but in essence his propensity to play it safe and conservative will eventually be his undoing. 

And to those saying well he's 3rd string they see him in practice everyday so he must really suck. Do we trust that this CS especially with Bowles at HC will put any credence to what a player does in what limited practice the CBA allows these days - I don't. Hell this is a coach who after the mess last season was still allowing players to show up late for meetings. 

[Pac]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Hackenberg selection is going to be in the first two sentences of the Mike Maccagnan career obituary. It’s the one rare pick where you can’t spin an argument for ever making it in the first place. Literally everyone—from his head coach, to the scouts, to the analytics people, to the mom’s basement draft-bloggers—knew he’d be bad, and he’s actually performed worse than even the most grim pre-draft predictions asserted. If you’re so inclined, you can make crediblr cases for picking Milliner, Gholston, Darron Lee, even guys like Stephen Hill. But Hackenberg was unconscionable and, imo, should instill raw terror into anyone who believes Mike Maccagnan should get the chance to draft another QB. 

Is it already story time today?  Did Dbuttman bring the marshmallows and hot cocoa?

[Pac]

47 minutes ago, Dcat said:

The sites that ranked him 2nd - 4th were listed in a post yesterday or the day before. Not sure which thread. Frankly, I was surprised by how many. But PFF was the one who called him undraftable for sure.

that was me in the O'brien thread..

https://forums.jetnation.com/topic/135016-looks-like-obrien-may-be-out-in-houston/?do=findComment&comment=3546722

 

[JetFaninMI]

I'm optimistic about Hack too. Optimistic that he will never play in the NFL.

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, Pac said:

Is it already story time today?  Did Dbuttman bring the marshmallows and hot cocoa?

I just read your exhaustively researched post in the O’Brien thread and they’re all “My god he is awful but he’ll go in the second or third round I guess I don’t know whatever.”

[NoBowles]

54 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Lol, yeah, you have To understand applied math to understand what an N is...... silly troll

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

So compliments equate to not news. If there were even thinly veiled hints that players thought he sucked there would be 100's of posts here reveling in the "facts".

It would be newsworthy, since half the people here think the only reason Hackenberg isn't on the field is the irretrievable stupidity of Todd Bowles. Just because the fans are curious - and understandably so - doesn't mean those that see him perform unimpressively on a daily basis need to share this same curiosity (much like the need of many fans to see Tebow on the field). 

After 2 years, that this is the extent of teammate compliments his way, it's pretty damning. Sounds as much as anything that a bunch of the guys just like him as a person and want to be nice.

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

bowles is not the issue.  mccagnan is the one who signed mccown.  if mccagnan gave bowles only petty and hackenberg, or watson and hackenberg, then bowles would have to play one of those guys.

the real problem IMO is that mccagnan doesn't have much faith in the qbs he's drafted, so he's hedged with veterans.  if he had the balls to go all in with a qb in the top of the first round, he wouldn't sign someone like mccown and the team would sink or swim.  as would mccagnan.  but mccagnan would rather tread water with a life vest in the shape of josh mccown.

So essentially the Jets have a conservative HC and a conservative GM both of whom are unwilling to take significant chances at being great and hence invariably settle for mediocrity.  

 

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It would be newsworthy, since half the people here think the only reason Hackenberg isn't on the field is the irretrievable stupidity of Todd Bowles.

After 2 years, that this is the extent of teammate compliments his way, it's pretty damning. Sounds as much as anything that a bunch of the guys just like him as a person and want to be nice.

Bowles stupidity is clearly on display for all to see 16 weeks each season. The only thing that's irretrievable is his grasp of offensive minded football.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

No they said he was improving ...Improving from what ? we may never know since the Idiot HC refuses to play him and every other team at some point has played their drafted QB. I mean for christs sake can you be any worse than Kizer ? Yet he plays. Why ? So the team can see if he has any shot at all of being an NFL QB. 

Can anyone tell me the last time a QB drafted to be the QB of the future never got one rep in 2 full years ?

I think we have a good idea. Again, just because we don't have a complete picture of what type of QB he is doesn't therefore mean nobody on the team has the slightest clue.

I'm quite certain if he looked at all impressive he'd be on the field (and he surely would've been ahead of Petty on the depth chart all season long).

[varjet]

15 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I just read your exhaustively researched post in the O’Brien thread and they’re all “My god he is awful but he’ll go in the second or third round I guess I don’t know whatever.”

This point is really getting ready to strike twice in Josh Allen.

He is big and strong, he can throw and he looks like a QB out of central casting.   He like Hack was pegged to be a QB from their PeeWee days.   But can they actually process the game in real time and make accurate throws with real defenders covering?  

I do believe that there was another GM, probably in round 3, that would have taken Hack if we did not.  I also believe that there were smart GMs who would not have touched him with a 10 foot pole-the good question is whether O'Brien would have taken him the third round after he took Martin in the 2nd.

But someone needs to make the smart analysis of which QB to take a chance on.  Hopefully Morton and Bates can opine as to whether they think a QB can run an NFL WCO.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Bowles stupidity is clearly on display for all to see 16 weeks each season. The only thing that's irretrievable is his grasp of offensive minded football.

Again, this would not therefore mean Hackenberg should be on an NFL football field. He has offensive coaches and offensive players. Surely if he was flashing his flashy flashes, word would get leaked out.

[56mehl56]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I think we have a good idea. Again, just because we don't have a complete picture of what type of QB he is doesn't therefore mean nobody on the team has the slightest clue.

I'm quite certain if he looked at all impressive he'd be on the field (and he surely would've been ahead of Petty on the depth chart all season long).

And if Bilal Powell or Elijah Mcguire were impressive they would surely get the majority of touches over Matt Forte - yeah I got some becahfront property to sell you in Kansas.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, varjet said:

This point is really getting ready to strike twice in Josh Allen.

He is big and strong, he can throw and he looks like a QB out of central casting.   He like Hack was pegged to be a QB from their PeeWee days.   But can they actually process the game in real time and make accurate throws with real defenders covering?  

I do believe that there was another GM, probably in round 3, that would have taken Hack if we did not.  I also believe that there were smart GMs who would not have touched him with a 10 foot pole-the good question is whether O'Brien would have taken him the third round after he took Martin in the 2nd.

But someone needs to make the smart analysis of which QB to take a chance on.  Hopefully Morton and Bates can opine as to whether they think a QB can run an NFL WCO.  

Or maybe teams were bluffing to hide the player they truly wanted. For example, Macc was apparently convinced Houston was taking Hackenberg as soon as they leapfrogged us. But just because some believe or heard of a particular interest being so doesn't make it so.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

5 hours ago, southtown24th said:

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2017/12/what_do_christian_hackenbergs_jets_teammates_think.html

 

 

This validates my blind optimism for Hack! 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

There is nothing I want more than for Christian Hackenberg to never play in a regular season for the Jets, get waived, picked up by a GOOD organization, get a chance & win a f*cking Super Bowl,lol. No fans in the history of this sport deserve a turn of events like that more than Jet fans. I seriously hate everyone of you deeply,lol.

 

If Hack leaves i'll follow him like the Tebow freaks!

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

And if Bilal Powell or Elijah Mcguire were impressive they would surely get the majority of touches over Matt Forte - yeah I got some becahfront property to sell you in Kansas.

Uh, Bilal Powell and Elijah McGuire do get the majority of touches over Matt Forte. Forte has more touches outright, and Forte doesn't even have 1/3 of the touches among the 3 of them. Lol.

I think Bowles is a terrible HC, but that doesn't therefore mean Hackenberg is an NFL QB at this stage or has earned any playing time. And I'm as morbidly curious as the next fan to see what he actually looks like vs pro competition. I sense the staff already knows (or if I'm giving Hack the extreme benefit of the doubt, they know what he'd do at this stage of his career). 

[Sperm Edwards]

Nothing would have been better for this team than to have Hackenberg become a good QB this year. Nobody doubts he's anything you'd need physically, and he was able to grasp a pro offense at age 18. Plus everyone here would get to see me with fresh remnants of crow feathers around my mouth on a weekly basis.

They haven't been keeping him on the bench for spite, or because they can't see how deserving he really is. If they all wanted to see him on the field that badly, never mind if they believed in him at all, then Josh McCown wouldn't have been on the roster in the first place. 

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Nothing would have been better for this team than to have Hackenberg become a good QB this year. Nobody doubts he's anything you'd need physically, and he was able to grasp a pro offense at age 18. Plus everyone here would get to see me with fresh remnants of crow feathers around my mouth on a weekly basis.

They haven't been keeping him on the bench for spite, or because they can't see how deserving he really is. If they all wanted to see him on the field that badly, never mind if they believed in him at all, then Josh McCown wouldn't have been on the roster in the first place. 

Once again if Todd Bowles had any say in the decision , there is no way in hell he was starting Hack. It has nothing to do with Hack either it has all to do with the mentality of a HC who's rooted in defense first football and protect the ball at all costs on offense.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Once again if Todd Bowles had any say in the decision , there is no way in hell he was starting Hack. It has nothing to do with Hack either it has all to do with the mentality of a HC who's rooted in defense first football and protect the ball at all costs on offense.

Just like your nonsensical claim that Forte is still getting more touches than Powell and McGuire? He gets less than 1/3 of the touches and you still think he's the go-to guy that gets most of the touches. It's all in your head, friend.

Just like Anderson got/gets more playing time than either Kearse or Kerley, Shell more playing time than Ijalana, younger DBs were chosen over Marcus Williams, Jalin Marshall was given a hundred chances despite repeated ineptitude on the field, etc.

People used to whine about Burris not being on the field enough last year. Well now with a year under his belt - i.e. healthy and with a year of experience now - he was pretty much handed that chance and people patted his drafter on the head for locking up the CB2 position with only a 4th round pick. Except he's horrible. Could be that he was basically nothing last year, like I said, like with his only pick coming as a result of a ball under-thrown by 3 yards so he could succeed despite his shoddy coverage, or getting dusted for a TD by some TE nobody's ever heard of.

At some point you have to realize these young players you're dying to see starting simply aren't good, and on balance our GM is wrong somewhere between 80 and 90% of the time. I mean, after 3 years can you name even one young player who's been held back by Bowles the first 2+ years, who showed us he's clearly an above average player once he got the chance (or after we let the player go)? The closest I can think of is Shell, and he's not even average yet.