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I think I'd prefer starting Hackenberg next year and tanking for 2019 than drafting Allen in the top 10. 

Lamar Jackson please.

Giants aren’t even a lock for the #2 pick. i really don’t understand why you think the Colts can’t secure that spot. The Giants played a good game last week. Manning isn’t going out without some

7 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

I'm not sure you grasp the whole idea of tanking.

Oh please enlighten me? Ask players to lose games because we know that’s not reality. A gm strips the team of talent and plays the “kids” which is essentially what we did 

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1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

Sure its sound strategy if you have the Bears 46 defense or you have the Cowboys Oline and Zeke toting the rock. Its not sound strategy when you have a mediocre Oline and Powell/Forte/Mcguire as your Rb's . Bowles is just the next in line of defensive minded HC's the Jets have employed who believe they are playing mid 70's NFL football.

Mac could hand Bowles a gunslinging Qb and 3 wr's who run 4.4 and Bowles would still prefer to run the ball win the TOP and have his defense carry the team - its whats ingrained in him to do. 

how do you know that? He's had Fitz and McCown as QB's.  It's entirely speculative to say he wouldn't be aggressive on offense if he had a QB he felt had the skill set to do so.

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14 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

how do you know that? He's had Fitz and McCown as QB's.  It's entirely speculative to say he wouldn't be aggressive on offense if he had a QB he felt had the skill set to do so.

The guy punts down by 11 in the 4th quarter, he runs the clock out trailing at halftime with to's in hand - he could have Aaron Rodgers and he'd be running Forte and Powell for 3 yards a clip and Jet fans would be saying man if we could only get a Qb like Brady or BigBen. 

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Oh please enlighten me? Ask players to lose games because we know that’s not reality. A gm strips the team of talent and plays the “kids” which is essentially what we did 

 

Except we had a 38-year old at QB and 31-year old starting at RB...

 

The defense was only young because of all the early draft picks we’ve used there. Williams, Lee, both safeties, etc.

 

A true tank effort would have been going with Petty as starter from the beginning, with Hack and a camp arm as the alternatives.

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13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Except we had a 38-year old at QB and 31-year old starting at RB...

 

The defense was only young because of all the early draft picks we’ve used there. Williams, Lee, both safeties, etc.

 

A true tank effort would have been going with Petty as starter from the beginning, with Hack and a camp arm as the alternatives.

Most would of argued getting McCown was the ultimate tank move he jus went out there and balled, not his fault or the teams. Just how th cookie crumbled but we had a tank roster 

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20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I think if we trade up for Allen, Josh McCown will start ~12 games for the Jets next year and Bowles will be replaced at the end of the year by whomever happens to be coaching the Eagles wide receivers at the time, who will then decide he wants Nick Foles to be his starter.

I could easily see this being the case.

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Most would of argued getting McCown was the ultimate tank move he jus went out there and balled, not his fault or the teams. Just how th cookie crumbled but we had a tank roster 


No reason to go the vet route from the outset, other than Macc trying to protect his job.

McCown had a decent year with the Bears a few years prior, so it wasn’t outlandish to think he’d do OK here. In any case, we should have avoided it entirely and played the kids. Sink or swim with them instead of this no-mans land result.
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On 12/23/2017 at 4:11 PM, kevinc855 said:

You are one of the guys who loves to complain and doesn’t offer solutions! What would you like the jets to do at the qb position? 

Trade up for Darnold or trade for Luck.  Offer the entire draft and use the $80 mil cap to plug the holes in the roster

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On 12/23/2017 at 7:49 PM, BigO said:

What if, and a BIG what if, both Rosen AND Darnold tell the Browns they won’t play for them. Darnold has leverage as he can say he won’t come out but Rosen I believe has none. 

I actually think that happens

 

Which is why it’s realistic that we trade up to 1

 

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On 12/23/2017 at 7:52 PM, kevinc855 said:

Yep cutting decker mangold Marshall etc and signing a 38 year old journeyman qb who won 2 games in like his last 20 starts was def mac trying to win. 

Tell me more about Decker, Marshall, and Mangold’s seasons!

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On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 3:22 PM, kevinc855 said:

We are not getting Darnold or Rosen at 1 and 2. Get over it, browns and giants are not trading out. With that said it’s betwen mayfield or Allen and most have Allen more highly rated ( still skeptical since Wyoming plays crap teams but ok). If we trade up and snag him at 3 from bears or colts what is our expectations next year? I mean we need to still get this man help but with the current roster and Allen what are the Jets next year? Playoff contenders? Just curious to hear all your opinions. Jet up! 

This made me laugh because well you're comparing him to a QB coming from the Big 12.  

That said, to your point.  I don't think Mac can afford to draft another Christian Hackenberg, especially not in the top 10 this time.  And if he did, how many colored shirts does he get while Hack is working on the rainbow?

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On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 7:52 PM, kevinc855 said:

Yep cutting decker mangold Marshall etc and signing a 38 year old journeyman qb who won 2 games in like his last 20 starts was def mac trying to win. 

100%.  They were trying to strike lightening in a bottle just like with Fitz baby!!!

Have you watched Petty?  And Hack is way behind him supposedly?  That was the recipe to the tank.  

Instead, we should all be grateful for Joshy and his 5 wins!!!!!!!!!!!!

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On 12/23/2017 at 8:45 PM, kevinc855 said:

Oh please enlighten me? Ask players to lose games because we know that’s not reality. A gm strips the team of talent and plays the “kids” which is essentially what we did 

Those moves outside of signing Mccown were the 100% correct moves to make . None of those guys or combination of them were making this team a playoff contender. It was a critical step in rebuilding and getting the youngsters experience , it just happens that there's a moron trolling the sidelines masquerading as HC who is only concerned about his self preservation and having his defense look good. 

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The Jets need to be all in on one of the top 2 QB's in the draft.  If there's any possibility at all to trade up to get one of them, no price should be too steep to make it happen.  Go big or go home.  It's about time this franchise adapts this philosophy. 

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If they draft Allen and Bowles is the coach the guy won't even be active on game day much less start.

What I would like to see: The Jets somehow get lucky and Mayfield is available and they pick him. They then grab an RB with either one of the 2nd round picks and an OL with the other. They sign and bolster the OL RB and WR's in FA while signing a servicable QB until Mayfield is ready. Go so heavy on offense this off-season that it will make people stop and say: "Damn those Jets went heavy on Offense this off-season".

What will happen: Macchole will chase every available QB in FA and lose out. He will wind-up signing second tier FA's and the best part about it will be the way he structures those contracts. In the draft he will NOT trade-up(he will say "We tried but the price was to high") He will go BPA in the first and most likely trade one of those second rounders for a slew of 4th and 5th rounders. He will do this because of his belief of"his eye for late round talent". This is what he does and has done in the past. That will most likely be your off-season this year. Once again reality is sometimes a sh*t sandwich so get ready to take a big bite.

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3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

If they draft Allen and Bowles is the coach the guy won't even be active on game day much less start.

What I would like to see: The Jets somehow get lucky and Mayfield is available and they pick him. They then grab an RB with either one of the 2nd round picks and an OL with the other. They sign and bolster the OL RB and WR's in FA while signing a servicable QB until Mayfield is ready. Go so heavy on offense this off-season that it will make people stop and say: "Damn those Jets went heavy on Offense this off-season".

What will happen: Macchole will chase every available QB in FA and lose out. He will wind-up signing second tier FA's and the best part about it will be the way he structures those contracts. In the draft he will NOT trade-up(he will say "We tried but the price was to high") He will go BPA in the first and most likely trade one of those second rounders for a slew of 4th and 5th rounders. He will do this because of his belief of"his eye for late round talent". This is what he does and has done in the past. That will most likely be your off-season this year. Once again reality is sometimes a sh*t sandwich so get ready to take a big bite.

And that my friends is the real problem in a nutshell. 

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

This made me laugh because well you're comparing him to a QB coming from the Big 12.  

That said, to your point.  I don't think Mac can afford to draft another Christian Hackenberg, especially not in the top 10 this time.  And if he did, how many colored shirts does he get while Hack is working on the rainbow?

Please let's insert some facts into the discussion of the comparison between Mayfield and Allen because the poster is correct, there was a dramatic difference in the level of competition between the two teams  in 2017. Here are the two schedules:

Wyoming  - Strength of schedule - 85th out of 130                                 Oklahoma - Strength of Schedule - 3rd out of 130

Iowa                                                                                                                         UTEP 

Gardner Webb                                                                                              Ohio State (5)

Oregon                                                                                                        Tulane

Hawaii                                                                                                          Baylor

Texas State                                                                                                   Oklahoma State

Utah State                                                                                                    Texas

Boise State                                                                                                    Kansas State

New Mexico                                                                                                   Texas Tech

Co State                                                                                                        Oklahoma State

Air Force                                                                                                        TCU (13)

Fresno State                                                                                                   Kansas

San Jose State                                                                                                West Virginia

                                                                                                                     TCU (13)

The Oklahoma season included a signature win on the road at Ohio State against a top 10 defense. So the concerns of Allen playing against soft competition are absolutely legitimate while the assumption that Mayfield, since Oklahoma is the BIG 12, never plays against top tier competition/defenses is false. 

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6 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

Please let's insert some facts into the discussion of the comparison between Mayfield and Allen because the poster is correct, there was a dramatic difference in the level of competition between the two teams  in 2017. Here are the two schedules:

Wyoming  - Strength of schedule - 85th out of 130                                 Oklahoma - Strength of Schedule - 3rd out of 130

Iowa                                                                                                                         UTEP 

Gardner Webb                                                                                              Ohio State (5)

Oregon                                                                                                        Tulane

Hawaii                                                                                                          Baylor

Texas State                                                                                                   Oklahoma State

Utah State                                                                                                    Texas

Boise State                                                                                                    Kansas State

New Mexico                                                                                                   Texas Tech

Co State                                                                                                        Oklahoma State

Air Force                                                                                                        TCU (13)

Fresno State                                                                                                   Kansas

San Jose State                                                                                                West Virginia

                                                                                                                     TCU (13)

The Oklahoma season included a signature win on the road at Ohio State against a top 10 defense. So the concerns of Allen playing against soft competition are absolutely legitimate while the assumption that Mayfield, since Oklahoma is the BIG 12, never plays against top tier competition/defenses is false. 

You mean to tell me Oklahoma plays a tougher schedule than Wyoming????  Get right on out here with that. 

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19 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

Please let's insert some facts into the discussion of the comparison between Mayfield and Allen because the poster is correct, there was a dramatic difference in the level of competition between the two teams  in 2017. Here are the two schedules:

Wyoming  - Strength of schedule - 85th out of 130                                 Oklahoma - Strength of Schedule - 3rd out of 130

Iowa                                                                                                                         UTEP 

Gardner Webb                                                                                              Ohio State (5)

Oregon                                                                                                        Tulane

Hawaii                                                                                                          Baylor

Texas State                                                                                                   Oklahoma State

Utah State                                                                                                    Texas

Boise State                                                                                                    Kansas State

New Mexico                                                                                                   Texas Tech

Co State                                                                                                        Oklahoma State

Air Force                                                                                                        TCU (13)

Fresno State                                                                                                   Kansas

San Jose State                                                                                                West Virginia

                                                                                                                     TCU (13)

The Oklahoma season included a signature win on the road at Ohio State against a top 10 defense. So the concerns of Allen playing against soft competition are absolutely legitimate while the assumption that Mayfield, since Oklahoma is the BIG 12, never plays against top tier competition/defenses is false. 

What was Connor Cook's strength of schedule vs Carson Wentz's, factual speaking, of course?

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2 hours ago, legler82 said:

What was Connor Cook's strength of schedule vs Carson Wentz's, factual speaking, of course?

Lol what a troll response. I never said anything about strength of schedule being the only or most important factor in evaluating QB's. Please read the string. Oh and thanks for comparing Connor Cook to Mayfield and Wentz to Josh Allen in your response, it was good for a laugh. 

And it's factually speaking........

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I thought this was an interesting article - the Josh Allen accuracy issue is really scary, as is the fact that Macc didn't care about that when he took Hackenburg.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sd-sp-chargers-josh-allen-is-nfl-draft-mystery-man-20171224-story.html

 

In the recent Potato Bowl, quarterback Josh Allen tossed the football in a fashion that likely improved his NFL draft stock.

Lasers across the field, on the mark.

Strikes, on the run.

A perfect long toss that went over 50 yards in blustery, Boise, Idaho.

Strictly in terms of “arm talent,” Allen looked like the goods.

Not done throwing objects even after leading Wyoming past Central Michigan, Allen tossed a few spuds into the crowd while some NFL observers worked up odes to the young quarterback who’s listed at 6 feet, 5 inches and 240 pounds.

“After watching Allen in person,” wrote former NFL scout Bucky Brooks, for the league’s inherently laudatory web site, “it’s easy to see why the Ben Roethlisberger comparison has been thrown out by scouts across the league. He is big, athletic and physical with a gunslinger’s mentality at the position. While those traits certainly evoke images of Roethlisberger, I believe Allen best compares to a more dynamic version of Blake Bortles.”

Count on this: Between now and the draft in April, Josh Allen will become a known name to even casual NFL followers.

His NFL potential will be debated to excess, even by the hog-wild standards of an NFL draft.

It wouldn’t be surprising if Allen is taken among the top five, perhaps even first overall, despite expected competition from more advanced quarterbacks such as UCLA’s Josh Rosen, USC’s Sam Darnold and Heisman winner Baker Mayfield of Oklahoma. (Rosen and Darnold have yet to declare whether they will enter the draft.)

Of those four, Allen may grade highest for arm strength and size, and he’s more mobile than Rosen.

However, in contrast to Rosen and Darnold especially, he’s not very accurate.

His career completion rate was an alarming 56.2 percent going into the Central Michigan game, raising the possibility that, as fun as it is to throw potatoes, this was an outlier performance.

Greg Gabriel is a former Chicago Bears scouting executive who is bearish about Allen’s NFL potential. He says the first-round projections attached to the Californian, who played for a high school and community college near Fresno, amount to a media creation.

“The Josh Allen lovers can love,” Gabriel said, via Twitter, after the junior’s performance in Idaho, “but fact is, no quarterback in the last 12-14 years with a completion percentage as low as Allen has had success in NFL. Most end up as very average backups or outright busts. Can’t argue with facts.”

Allen’s performance in Idaho was impressive, but not without a few hiccups in addition to the standard disclaimers attached.

He made two bad decisions, once lobbing the ball toward a defender instead of taking a sack, later taking an avoidable sack, denying his team a field-goal try.

Wyoming’s opponent had a funky habit of rushing only three defenders, comforting for a quarterback.

The overall mental tasks required of Allen, as would be true of most college passers, didn’t compare to an NFL quarterback’s mental load.

The comparison with Roethlisberger extends to the level of competition, as Big Ben also played for a mid-tier college program, Miami of Ohio.

However, Roethlisberger’s completion rate, at 65.5, was much higher.

Allen’s size and arm strength recall Cam Newton, the former Auburn star.

Newton was much faster afoot, and a devastating rusher. A top pick overall, Newton hit on more than 66 percent of his passes in his one season as a starter.

Figuring out why Allen’s completion rate was so low, and if it can be elevated against NFL competition, will be job No. 1 for NFL teams that scout him.

Gabriel’s advise: Hedge your bet.

“The quarterbacks with poor accuracy who have been taken high always cost someone their job,” he said. “If you want one, take him in the fourth (round) or lower and pray.”

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On 12/23/2017 at 2:50 PM, joewilly12 said:

Regardless of who we draft we need to have a  HC in place that will grow with a rookie QB, Todd Bowles prefers old loser washed up veteran QB's. 

People love to say this but the fact of the matter is that since he has been coach we have had nothing but young bum arse, scrubs as our young QB's and the only qb we have had that can actually hit the damn target is the OLD bum arse qb's he is given by Mac. 

I dont think for a minute that if he actually had a young qb that wasnt a hot mess he wouldnt play him. A lot of people on this board assume as much but the reality is that he has never had a decent one to make that decision. Hopefully we get a good one in the draft that forces his hand and is something that we can see instead of speculate on. 

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