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Sign Kirk Cousins, Draft Barkley


Pac

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, that's it, wins weren't signature.  Why the hell are you arguing against this or any decent QB.  You can't seriously be disecting his December games with the Skins as if it means anything to anyone other than someone who just doesn't like him.  Give it up, why do you think you're going to convince that he sucks

You obviously have no more argument left in you. Numerous quotes i have in this thread speaking on price tag relative to performance in crunch time, and not that he "sucks". 

I appreciate you not resorting to fukkery, quick stats checking to create a lame argument or mentioning mike glennon. Im moving on now.

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

What? What got proven right? 

 

 

So now they have to be specific types of wins at specific times? Is this what was proven right? 

Proven right that you dont pay guys like Fitz 15 million because of stats. 

And yes, they must be specific type of  wins in order for them to be signature wins. Its called winning during crunch time, something that a qb getting paid 20+ million needs to be able to do.

No, proven right was not agreeing to the jets overpaying quarterbacks because of stats. I dont care about paying for stats padding, i care about paying for beating good teams with players on the field during crunch time. 

Cousins has not done that yet is paid 24 million dollars and will probably ask for 20+ million a year. I dont agree with it, and if the redskins let him walk, then neither do they. 

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33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You obviously have no more argument left in you. Numerous quotes i have in this thread speaking on price tag relative to performance in crunch time, and not that he "sucks". 

I appreciate you not resorting to fukkery, quick stats checking to create a lame argument or mentioning mike glennon. Im moving on now.

Lame argument, you're right.  Back to Glennon, an absolute jag that you bombarded the board with stats and highlight videos up the arse.  You might want to lay low with the QB hard core reactions.  Nice guy, wrong player to Hitch your rep to, Glennon blows.  Big Time

 

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31 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Proven right that you dont pay guys like Fitz 15 million because of stats. 

And yes, they must be specific type of  wins in order for them to be signature wins. Its called winning during crunch time, something that a qb getting paid 20+ million needs to be able to do.

No, proven right was not agreeing to the jets overpaying quarterbacks because of stats. I dont care about paying for stats padding, i care about paying for beating good teams with players on the field during crunch time. 

Cousins has not done that yet is paid 24 million dollars and will probably ask for 20+ million a year. I dont agree with it, and if the redskins let him walk, then neither do they. 

A specific type of win that you can’t actually specify, this is very convenient for you. UNLESS “beating good teams with players on the field during crunch time,” is supposed to be really laying it out? That doesn’t clarify anything. What is crunch time? Does Cousins play without players on the field? Or does he usually pass against no defense, hence the “stats padding?” 

And what is this nonsense about proven right about something with stats? All you’ve done is make up a stat and say this guy doesn’t have any of that made up stat! 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Lame argument, you're right.  Back to Glennon, an absolute jag that you bombarded the board with stats and highlight videos up the arse.  You might want to lay low with the QB hard core reactions.  Nice guy, wrong player to Hitch your rep to, Glennon blows.  Big Time

 

Oh, now you just want to hurt my feelings. This is what you resort to when you dont get your way huh? Attacking the messenger and not the message. 

 

amateur ;) 

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1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

A specific type of win that you can’t actually specify, this is very convenient for you. UNLESS “beating good teams with players on the field during crunch time,” is supposed to be really laying it out? That doesn’t clarify anything. What is crunch time? Does Cousins play without players on the field? Or does he usually pass against no defense, hence the “stats padding?” 

And what is this nonsense about proven right about something with stats? All you’ve done is make up a stat and say this guy doesn’t have any of that made up stat! 

I cant specify it because he doesnt have any. 

I can specifiy quite a few from a guy like Russell Wilson. Kirk Cousins?....not so much. But hey, he's a good quarterback, all im saying is that he's not worth the price tag. That's what im saying, and im sticking to it. 

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12 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Drew Brees doesnt happen every year. In other words you have a better chance of drafting your qb and winning a sb over picking up someone elses talent in order to over pay them, which their former team was no longer willing to do. 

I have no problem with cousins, i have a problem paying him elite money. He's not elite. I dont care about the stats when he simply hasn't done it when it truly counts.

If he's signed its not like im going to erupt...but im going to be critical of it if he's paid more than he's proven to be worth. 

I would agree with this statement if it weren't referring to the NY Jets.  I don't know how you could trust this team/regime with that position. 

You're getting way to wrapped up in "when it counts" and "single handedly win a game" baloney  - Manning lost how many playoffs games before he won a Super Bowl?  If I'm not mistaken, he was 0-3 in the playoffs before he won his first playoff game!  Mark Sanchez has signature wins, wouldy ou prefer him over Cousins?  And no QB single handedly wins a Football game, yes, there are clutch performers but other people have to make plays too.  The Redskins are terrible, they'd be a 2 win team without him.  Maybe that's not a signature win or winning when it counts but he is that team. 

And 95% of the QB's in this league don't deserve their contract.  It's the NFL baby!!!

 

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12 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Just because the rest of the league are overvaluing qb's thst are not elite in terms of their pay doesnt mean we should do it.

It actually kind of does because it's sets the market.  Hence why Mike Glennon and his 1 signature win got a 45 million dollar contract with almost 20 of it guaranteed. 

Chase Daniel signed a 21 million dollar deal to be a back up. These are the times we live in, my man.

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12 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Signing Cousins (if possible) is like getting a free first rounder.  You took care of your QB in free agency and you still have a top 8 first round pick to fill another hole with a premium player.   Also, we'll still have another $70M left in cap space.  Imagine Cousins, Landry, Anseh, others in free agency and  Barkley in round one and you'll still have plenty of picks and $ to plug the OL and CB positions.

A top 10 pick and 2 second round picks.  Do something crazy like, hit on all 3 at premium positions and Kirk's contract doesn't sting nearly as bad.  If you truly think you have your core with Leo, Lee, Adams and Maye...none of them are going to demand ridiculous contracts either.  And the cap continues to increase very year, right?

It's a no brainer if you ask me. 

 

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34 minutes ago, JiF said:

I would agree with this statement if it weren't referring to the NY Jets.  I don't know how you could trust this team/regime with that position. 

You're getting way to wrapped up in "when it counts" and "single handedly win a game" baloney  - Manning lost how many playoffs games before he won a Super Bowl?  If I'm not mistaken, he was 0-3 in the playoffs before he won his first playoff game!  Mark Sanchez has signature wins, wouldy ou prefer him over Cousins?  And no QB single handedly wins a Football game, yes, there are clutch performers but other people have to make plays too.  The Redskins are terrible, they'd be a 2 win team without him.  Maybe that's not a signature win or winning when it counts but he is that team. 

And 95% of the QB's in this league don't deserve their contract.  It's the NFL baby!!!

 

I dont trust this regime whatsoever. I haven't liked our qb situation under this regime. I fully expect Bowles and co to be fired next monday. 

 

Cousins is not Manning. People know the difference between qb's but forget it when i dont agree with their new favorite qb. 

Sign him for a respectable deal and its all good. Sign him for 20+ million and im going to think it wss too much. 

I didnt say the dude was trash, just staying the obvious. 

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I dont trust this regime whatsoever. I haven't liked our qb situation under this regime. I fully expect Bowles and co to be fired next monday. 

I don't but I understand your position on this better if that's your feeling.

 

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34 minutes ago, JiF said:

It actually kind of does because it's sets the market.  Hence why Mike Glennon and his 1 signature win got a 45 million dollar contract with almost 20 of it guaranteed. 

Chase Daniel signed a 21 million dollar deal to be a back up. These are the times we live in, my man.

And both were stupid contracts. You dont follow the leader when you know its stupid. 

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

And both were stupid contracts. You dont follow the leader when you know its stupid. 

You got to pay to play, my man.  It's the nature of the beast.  Like I said before, if the Jets pick Mayfield and he turns out to be the goods, guess what is coming in a few years?  I ridiculous contract. It's not about following the leader, it's about what the market dictates for you to secure the most important position in sports.  

 

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58 minutes ago, JiF said:

You got to pay to play, my man.  It's the nature of the beast.  Like I said before, if the Jets pick Mayfield and he turns out to be the goods, guess what is coming in a few years?  I ridiculous contract. It's not about following the leader, it's about what the market dictates for you to secure the most important position in sports.  

 

It's not a ridiculous contract if he got the goods. We have so many overpaid QB's in this league right now that DONT have the goods

Joe Flacco

Mike Glennon

Carson palmer

Brock Osweiler (Remember when Jets fans wanted to give this guy 19 million?)

Andy Dalton

Ryan Tannehill

Kirk Cousins

Matt Stafford (Very good QB, shouldnt be the highest paid QB in the league though). 

 

You said "Pay to play" yet the only QB from the above list making the playoffs is Joe Flacco. The rest of these guys are not "playing" brother. 

 

Kirk Cousins is better than many of these guys mentioned above, the problem is the overly inflated price of QB's today is ridiculous. Just because we have teams willing to pay the above players way overpriced contracts doesnt mean that the Jets should be doing the same. 

Look at the teams in the playoffs relative to how they got their QB. 

Patriots (Drafted QB)

Steelers (Drafted QB)

Eagles (Drafted QB)

Vikings (Free agent)

Titans (Drafted QB)

Jaguars (Drafted QB)

Ravens (Drafted QB)

Chiefs (Traded QB)

Falcons (Drafted QB)

Panthers (Drafted QB)

Rams (Drafted QB)

Saints (Free Agent). 

 

Out of these 12 playoff teams (if the playoffs started today) only 3 of the teams have a QB that they didnt draft and of those 3 only 1 is even elite (Brees). 

Teams that are in the hunt for a playoff spot are:

Chargers (Drafted QB)

Seahawks (Drafted QB)

Bills (Free Agent QB)

 

It seems like the actual success isnt throwing money at the QB via free agency but drafting your QB and or building a complete team around your QB such as what the Jags and Vikings have done. 

 

Paying Kirk Cousins only means that we overpaid the man. It doesnt mean that we're "paying to play". Most of these big money guys arent even in the playoffs. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Pac said:

Matt Stafford is the highest paid QB in the league..   Cousins > Stafford.
 

If I felt like putting any time into it I could show you 10 QB's who make over 15 Mil and have no "signature wins".

Agree 100%.

I said this before, Kirk Cousins has been a top 7 QB for the last 3 years. As far as his future, once you factor age into it (he's only 29) he becomes a top 5 QB going forward. What more could you ask for? We aint getting Darnold or Rosen. 

But no worries Cousins haters. He aint coming here

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8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Kirk Cousins is better than many of these guys mentioned above, the problem is the overly inflated price of QB's today is ridiculous. Just because we have teams willing to pay the above players way overpriced contracts doesnt mean that the Jets should be doing the same. 

Look at the teams in the playoffs relative to how they got their QB. 

Patriots (Drafted QB)

Steelers (Drafted QB)

Eagles (Drafted QB)

Vikings (Free agent)

Titans (Drafted QB)

Jaguars (Drafted QB)

Ravens (Drafted QB)

Chiefs (Traded QB)

Falcons (Drafted QB)

Panthers (Drafted QB)

Rams (Drafted QB)

Saints (Free Agent). 

 

 

Fair point. But most of the playoff teams you mentioned drafted QB's in the top 5. We don't have that luxury. When you start taking QB's outside the top 5, you're taking a greater risk.

 

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26 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It's not a ridiculous contract if he got the goods. We have so many overpaid QB's in this league right now that DONT have the goods

Joe Flacco

Mike Glennon

Carson palmer

Brock Osweiler (Remember when Jets fans wanted to give this guy 19 million?)

Andy Dalton

Ryan Tannehill

Kirk Cousins

Matt Stafford (Very good QB, shouldnt be the highest paid QB in the league though). 

 

You said "Pay to play" yet the only QB from the above list making the playoffs is Joe Flacco. The rest of these guys are not "playing" brother. 

 

Kirk Cousins is better than many of these guys mentioned above, the problem is the overly inflated price of QB's today is ridiculous. Just because we have teams willing to pay the above players way overpriced contracts doesnt mean that the Jets should be doing the same. 

Look at the teams in the playoffs relative to how they got their QB. 

Patriots (Drafted QB)

Steelers (Drafted QB)

Eagles (Drafted QB)

Vikings (Free agent)

Titans (Drafted QB)

Jaguars (Drafted QB)

Ravens (Drafted QB)

Chiefs (Traded QB)

Falcons (Drafted QB)

Panthers (Drafted QB)

Rams (Drafted QB)

Saints (Free Agent). 

 

Out of these 12 playoff teams (if the playoffs started today) only 3 of the teams have a QB that they didnt draft and of those 3 only 1 is even elite (Brees). 

Teams that are in the hunt for a playoff spot are:

Chargers (Drafted QB)

Seahawks (Drafted QB)

Bills (Free Agent QB)

 

It seems like the actual success isnt throwing money at the QB via free agency but drafting your QB and or building a complete team around your QB such as what the Jags and Vikings have done. 

 

Paying Kirk Cousins only means that we overpaid the man. It doesnt mean that we're "paying to play". Most of these big money guys arent even in the playoffs. 

 

 

I don't understand the purpose of this exercise.  Nobody is arguing the benefits of finding a QB in the draft (though this all extremely comical after your years of pleading for Glennon).  I've stated numerous times that the preferred method is drafting one.  Sperm had a great post about this regarding cap allocation to a QB vs Super Bowl wins.  I get it 100%.  I too would love for the Jets to get it right for once.  Unfortunately, I have zero faith in that happening. 

The issue with this premise and your post is: you don't see QB's like Cousin hit the open market often (Brees being the last? and that's worked out well) and of those QB's you listed that are making the playoffs, only 4 of them are on their rookie contracts.  The rest are getting paid and you failed to show the ridiculous contracts they received.  Like I've said over and over again, eventually that rookie contract runs out and their respective teams understand that you have to pay to play.

So I don't see the difference here.  You draft one and he's good, you're eventually over paying.  Or in the rare occasion a player of Cousins caliber hits the market, you over pay for him because he's earned the contract just like those other dudes.  And in the case of the Jets, they suck at drafting and are in no mans land in 2 QB draft once again...so Kirk makes a ton of sense. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Fair point. But most of the playoff teams you mentioned drafted QB's in the top 5. We don't have that luxury. When you start taking QB's outside the top 5, you're taking a greater risk.

 

Fair point, yet many fans want the Jets to overpay a QB that was drafted in the 4th round. 

Do I think Cousins is a top 15 talent? Yes. Do I think he's a top 10 talent? Possibly. Do I think he's worth 24 million dollars? No. Would I instead take my chances with the QB's this year? Yes. The jets will probably have the 6th or 7th pick. There will be a respectable QB available at that pick. Sure, Darnold, Rosen may be gone, Mayfield may be gone, but that doesnt mean that there is no talent to be had. Instead of throwing money at the problem (which doesnt work more often than not), how about getting some quality scounts that can recognize talent in order for the Jets to build a football team? It's not like we're just a QB away. The Jags and Vikings dont have much at the QB position but their teams are literally build from the draft with free agency being a compliment. We have no pass rusher, we have no offensive line, Forte is done, We need corners...etc. 

 

How about building a team so whatever QB we do have we can actually support that QB with talent. How about not being like the Packers and wanting to put everything on the QB. Aaron Rodgers should have 3 rings at this point. The Packers have been terrible at evaluating talent in the draft and they tend not to entertain free agency, meanwhile if not for Aaron Rodgers ,as we've been able to see first hand, the Packers would be one of the worst teams in the league. Aaron Rodgers singlehandedly wins games for that organization, yet they build nothing around him. 

The Jets need to build a football team and not just throw 24 million at a QB meanwhile have no offensive line to protect your 24 million dollar man. 

I think Cousins is a good QB, I dont think he's worth that amount. 

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16 minutes ago, JiF said:

I don't understand the purpose of this exercise.  Nobody is arguing the benefits of finding a QB in the draft (though this all extremely comical after your years of pleading for Glennon).  I've stated numerous times that the preferred method is drafting one.  Sperm had a great post about this regarding cap allocation to a QB vs Super Bowl wins.  I get it 100%.  I too would love for the Jets to get it right for once.  Unfortunately, I have zero faith in that happening. 

The issue with this premise and your post is: you don't see QB's like Cousin hit the open market often (Brees being the last? and that's worked out well) and of those QB's you listed that are making the playoffs, only 4 of them are on their rookie contracts.  The rest are getting paid and you failed to show the ridiculous contracts they received.  Like I've said over and over again, eventually that rookie contract runs out and their respective teams understand that you have to pay to play.

So I don't see the difference here.  You draft one and he's good, you're eventually over paying.  Or in the rare occasion a player of Cousins caliber hits the market, you over pay for him because he's earned the contract just like those other dudes.  And in the case of the Jets, they suck at drafting and are in no mans land in 2 QB draft once again...so Kirk makes a ton of sense. 

 

 

I never once called Glennon a franchise QB, I never once said that you dont draft a QB because you have Glennon. I said he's a quality QB that could be top 15 at his height if given the right pieces. You've said numerous times that the preferred method is drafting one, well I've said numerous times that we're talking about Cousins yet I keep hearing Glennon. Why not my adamant disagreement with the Ryan Fitzpatrick signing for all that money? That would seem somewhat more relevant given that im talking about players being overpriced relative to talent. Furthermore, I even said that the Bears overpaid for Glennon. So what are you talking about here really???? You're just kicking rocks. 

 

The exercise is simple if you were to get past Mike Glennon, overpaying for someone elses trash tends not to work. Now im not saying that Cousins a bad QB, but if the Redskins kick him to the curb, how often do we see that situation work for the new team that picks up those players and overpays them? More importantly, how many times do we see players "Of that caliber" kicked to the curb???

You dont over pay players for being overrated. "Of Cousins Caliber"????? What has Cousins done in the NFC East? Now we want to bring him to the AFC East with Brady? Dude could be great, im not denying that he has talent, but stop with the overrating and make accurate comparisons if you're going to talk about QB's that have nothing to do with the topic. 

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I never once called Glennon a franchise QB, I never once said that you dont draft a QB because you have Glennon. I said he's a quality QB that could be top 15 at his height if given the right pieces. You've said numerous times that the preferred method is drafting one, well I've said numerous times that we're talking about Cousins yet I keep hearing Glennon. Why not my adamant disagreement with the Ryan Fitzpatrick signing for all that money? That would seem somewhat more relevant given that im talking about players being overpriced. That would be boring because you wouldnt be able to kick rocks, so I understand. 

 

The exercise is simple if you were to get past Mike Glennon, overpaying for someone elses trash tends not to work. Now im not saying that Cousins a bad QB, but if the Redskins kick him to the curb, how often do we see that situation work for the new team that picks up those players? More importantly, how many times do we see players "Of that caliber" kicked to the curb???

You dont over pay players because for being overrated. "Of Cousins Caliber"????? What has Cousins done in the NFC East? Now we want to bring him to the AFC East with Brady? Dude could be great, im not denying that he has talent, but stop with the overrating and make accurate comparisons if you're going to talk about QB's that have nothing to do with the topic. 

My dude!  You were obsessed with Glennon for years!  I think you know why his name keeps coming up in this conversation as you take an adamant stance about a 10x better player.  The Fitz example is not comparable because he is/was terrible and everyone in the sporting world knew it other than Todd Bowles and Big Mac. 

In one breath, you call Cousins "trash".  In another, you don't think he's a bad QB.  You're kind of all over the place.  And again, a QB like Cousins hasn't hit the open market since Drew Brees and I think that's worked out pretty well for the Saints.

You over pay for QB's that aren't on their rookie contract.  Period, end of story.  That's the NFL.  It's happening all over the league. And the rest of that paragraph is nonsense.  Cousins isn't overrated.  He's producing at a top 5 level.  And your Brady point? Really? Why would you want to bring in any QB to compete with big bad Brady if that's your worry?  You want a rookie in Baker Mayfield to compete with Brady? Let's just not prioritize the most important position in all off sports because they have to compete with Brady.  Come'on with that noise, brother.   And he's been to the playoffs in the NFCE, so he's proved he can get there, so what is the worry?  No matter who you bring in, you're dealing with NE and Brady.  

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

My dude!  You were obsessed with Glennon for years!  I think you know why his name keeps coming up in this conversation as you take an adamant stance about a 10x better player.  The Fitz example is not comparable because he is/was terrible and everyone in the sporting world knew it other than Todd Bowles and Big Mac. 

In one breath, you call Cousins "trash".  In another, you don't think he's a bad QB.  You're kind of all over the place.  And again, a QB like Cousins hasn't hit the open market since Drew Brees and I think that's worked out pretty well for the Saints.

You over pay for QB's that aren't on their rookie contract.  Period, end of story.  That's the NFL.  It's happening all over the league. And the rest of that paragraph is nonsense.  Cousins isn't overrated.  He's producing at a top 5 level.  And your Brady point? Really? Why would you want to bring in any QB to compete with big bad Brady if that's your worry?  You want a rookie in Baker Mayfield to compete with Brady? Let's just not prioritize the most important position in all off sports because they have to compete with Brady.  Come'on with that noise, brother.   And he's been to the playoffs in the NFCE, so he's proved he can get there, so what is the worry?  No matter who you bring in, you're dealing with NE and Brady.  

Let me redirect this. Kirk Cousins is overpaid and im not in agreement with Kirk being overpaid by this organization. If you want to talk about Mike, dig in the old threads and then quote me. Not going to help you hijack this. And I didnt call Cousins trash, I said overpay the Redskins trash, based on the fact if they're willing to move on. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Let me redirect this. Kirk Cousins is overpaid and im not in agreement with Kirk being overpaid by this organization. If you want to talk about Mike, dig in the old threads and then quote me. Not going to help you hijack this. And I didnt call Cousins trash, I said overpay the Redskins trash, based on the fact if they're willing to move on. 

 

Brother, I wasn't trying to make this about your stance on Glennon.  90% of my responses were about Kirk and the contract and why he's going to get overpaid, just like every other QB in the league not on their rookie contract.   It's just impossible not to reference your obsession with Glennon as you're taking this hard stance vs. a 10x better player because of the sh*t you said just a short few months ago because he got RIDICULOUSLY overpaid and he's god awful. 

It didn't take me long, but here is a direct quote from you.  My how has your position changed. My favorite part is how you'd rather "run the risk of over paying a guy"...which has been my position this entire time. 

 

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Brother, I wasn't trying to make this about your stance on Glennon.  90% of my responses were about Kirk and the contract and why he's going to get overpaid, just like every other QB in the league not on their rookie contract.   It's just impossible not to reference your obsession with Glennon as you're taking this hard stance vs. a 10x better player because of the sh*t you said just a short few months ago because he got RIDICULOUSLY overpaid and he's god awful. 

It didn't take me long, but here is a direct quote from you.  My how has your position changed. My favorite part is how you'd rather "run the risk of over paying a guy"...which has been my position this entire time. 

 

Im not supporting overpaying Kirk Cousins. If the jets overpay him then Im going to look at it as such. He's a good QB, but he has not shown to be worth 24 million per season. 

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