Do we really want Kirk Cousins?

[bla bla bla]

3 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Question for those who want Cousins, how much better QB play does Cousins give us over what McCown gave us this year? And how many more games did we win with him instead?

You're better than this. McCown had his best season as a pro, I'd bet if we could have a 29 year old version of this McCown with no injury history we'd sign up for it. You are also comparing apples to hand grenades.

McCown for 2017 does not equal Cousins for 2018 considering we have close to $100M in cap and 4 high draft picks to surround him with talent. I get the bias but you're not really making a sound argument.

[SpartanJet]

I mean I'm always going to want a Spartan on the Jets but I really wanted a QB the Jets could call their own so I'm going to be slightly disappointed if we go that route.  On the other hand since we needed to play a 100 year old QB for those precious 5 wins we aren't going to be able to draft the potential FQB I dreamed about.   Given the choice between Shrimp Mayfield/Geno Jackson or Cousins I'm picking Cousins every time.

[David Harris]

We should back up the Brinks for Cousins

 

but I don’t see anyway he’d ever pick us over a Super Bowl contender like the Denver Broncos

[Patriot Killa]

21 minutes ago, David Harris said:

We should back up the Brinks for Cousins

 

but I don’t see anyway he’d ever pick us over a Super Bowl contender like the Denver Broncos

It’s a win-win. If they get Kirk then we don’t have anyone to worry about.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, DoubleDown said:

The Jets traded a late round conditional draft pick for Fitzpatrick. I believe it ended up being a 6th rounder if I'm not mistaken.

That wasn’t Macc evaluating, watching college tape and drafting a QB though. That was a simple low risk-high reward flyer and he was, at the time of the trade, viewed as a really solid back up. Mac only truly chose 2 QB’s ..and they both sucked but hey.. you hit or miss. Two swings. Get us the guy this time..it’s the best QB draft in awhile. I’ll be expecting Rosen or Mayfield because I truly believe in my heart of hearts that Darnold is going back to school.

[BklynJetsFan85]

If the jets can score Kirk Cousins in free agency, 100% they need to take O-Line in the first, either the OT or G from Notre Dame, both All Americans, because lets face it, doesn't matter who our QB is, if they don't have a line to protect them, they will fail.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

We should back up the Brinks for Cousins

 

but I don’t see anyway he’d ever pick us over a Super Bowl contender like the Denver Broncos

That’s funny. The Broncos are a terrible team outside of Miller, hence the top 5 draft pick. This isn’t five years ago. By FO’s rankings the Broncos were worse than the Jets, and bottom 3 in the league, on offense and STs. Calling them a SB contender is like calling the Jets a SB favorite. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

6 hours ago, NoBowles said:

So the skins were 2 wins better with Cousins and arguably a better team and an easier schedule, but you think the jets would have been 5 wins better?

The Redskins had the 5th hardest schedule based on winning percentage and deal with significant losses to injuries on offense. Also, that wasn’t your question. Look at the Jets losses and tell me that if Cousins is the QB that the Jets loss to Tampa or Denver or the first Bills, Miami, and NE games. Probably beat the Chargers too. So again. Yes. 4-5 maybe even 6 wins better. 

[SenorGato]

6 hours ago, NoBowles said:

So the skins were 2 wins better with Cousins and arguably a better team and an easier schedule, but you think the jets would have been 5 wins better?

None of this is how anything works, but you can’t be upset your nonsense question didn’t get whatever you think the answer should be (2?). Cousins is a significantly better QB than McCown and a decade younger. It is safe to say the Jets would be much better off. 

[Jetsplayer21]

1 hour ago, BklynJetsFan85 said:

If the jets can score Kirk Cousins in free agency, 100% they need to take O-Line in the first, either the OT or G from Notre Dame, both All Americans, because lets face it, doesn't matter who our QB is, if they don't have a line to protect them, they will fail.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

True about the line. Don’t know how McCown played so well behind this 1. Likely why he finally got hurt. A starting caliber RB is also needed. It’s pathetic what patchwork backs jets have currently have. Would like to see jets draft/sign a power back and all around back that is a strong in receiving and running game .

[SenorGato]

42 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

True about the line. Don’t know how McCown played so well behind this 1. Likely why he finally got hurt. A starting caliber RB is also needed. It’s pathetic what patchwork backs jets have currently have. Would like to see jets draft/sign a power back and all around back that is a strong in receiving and running game .

Probably/Likely the OL’s impact on a passing game is not what it is for a running game. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

Jimmy G went 5-0 with the exact same cast of characters that went 1-10.  Kirk Cousins got 7 wins in 16 games.

 

[SenorGato]

13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Jimmy G went 5-0 with the exact same cast of characters that went 1-10.  Kirk Cousins got 7 wins in 16 games.

Cool, next up is completing his first full season as a starter with expectations. 

[Charlie Brown]

7 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think the vast majority of Jets fans would sign off on Cousins, but this forum, especially after 2 bad  years is disproportionately filled with sad SOJFs that seem to root for the Jets to do bad so it can prove their point that the Johnson's are bad owners, Macc is an idiot, Bowles is a dope etc.. To the point that these guys were rooting against Adams/Mayes from day 1. 

If we get Cousins and he puts up 350 yards in week 1 next year, they will find a reason to bash him also. The better this team does the more those sad voices will be drowned out. 

Thank you!!!?

Cousins, the so called mediocre QB according to some out here, would be the most complete QB the Jets would have had under center in more than a generation and it is not even close!

 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Charlie Brown said:

Thank you!!!?

Cousins, the so called mediocre QB according to some out here, would be the most complete QB the Jets would have had under center in more than a generation and it is not even close!

 

I don't want "better than we've had in a long time".  I want "guy who can win us the Superbowl".

[Charlie Brown]

12 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't want "better than we've had in a long time".  I want "guy who can win us the Superbowl".

Hmmmm that is great!!

Well let’s just put on our snow boots and just march on down to the SB winning QB aisle at KMART and pick one out, shall we?  

I didn’t know it was all that simple!!  

You know better than this, come on now.

No one knows how many of the QBs in college are going to respond when they come out and acquiring Cousins doesn’t stop you from drafting a QB.  In fact that is precisely what I would do  

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmm that is great!!

Well let’s just put on our snow boots and just march on down to the SB winning QB aisle at KMART and pick one out, shall we?  

I didn’t know it was all that simple!!  

You know better than this, come on now.

No one knows how many of the QBs in college are going to respond when they come out and acquiring Cousins doesn’t stop you from drafting a QB.  In fact that is precisely what I would do. 

We know stuff about Cousins.  He's going to cost a fortune (probably will be the highest paid QB in the NFL) and he hasn't gotten his team very far.  I'd rather roll the dice with a younger QB in the draft.  But it's Macc's call.  He's on the hook, not me.

[Jetsplayer21]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

We know stuff about Cousins.  He's going to cost a fortune (probably will be the highest paid QB in the NFL) and he hasn't gotten his team very far.  I'd rather roll the dice with a younger QB in the draft.  But it's Macc's call.  He's on the hook, not me.

His agent will definitely be looking for a sucker team to way over pay. I liked jay gruden’s opinion when asked about cousins. Luke warm. He wasn’t going to jack up his value. It’s already overblown .I’d take cousins if the price is reasonable. Otherwise, Josh McCown at a much affordable price another yr is ok. Maybe other guys. 

[rangerous]

it all depends on the contract terms.  cousins is certainly a step up from what the jets have now and will bring instant credibility to the team.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

His agent will definitely be looking for a sucker team to way over pay. I liked jay gruden’s opinion when asked about cousins. Luke warm. I’d take cousins if the price is reasonable. Otherwise, Josh McCown at a much affordable price another yr is ok. Maybe other guys. 

The price will not be reasonable for Kirk Cousins.

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The price will not be reasonable for Kirk Cousins.

Depends if Eli will be on the market. The win now team without a qb are few. Other than jags, aren’t too many more. Other teams without a set qb are in building mode, or just sh*t mode ha. Most of them would like to draft 1 obviously. Cousins won’t get what he will be asking. All about guaranteed $. I would leave a window open to get out after 2 years. He still hasn’t proved A lot of consistency to earn a long locked in deal.

[Sonny Werblin]

No question that Cousins would be an upgrade over McCown, but I've actually watched Cousins play over the past few seasons (sister-in-law is a Redskin fan) and he is NOT a winner. When the game is on the line, he does not make plays. The Skins loss to the Saints this season is an excellent example of the difference between a winning QB and an average QB. Brees was contained all game long, but he made the necessary plays in crunch time to guide an improbable comeback. During that time, Cousins could not covert 3d downs to salt the game away for his team. Worse yet, Brees did such a great job that the Skins got the ball back with about a minute left and the score tied. Cousins could not get his team in field goal range and threw a mind boggingly stupid pass and was called for intentional grounding.

Bottom line. Cousins is not a winner. So, I do not want him as the QB for my team. Also, one might wonder how well Cousins would do when not playing for Jay Gruden.... just ask Andy Daulton.

[Charlie Brown]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

No question that Cousins would be an upgrade over McCown, but I've actually watched Cousins play over the past few seasons (sister-in-law is a Redskin fan) and he is NOT a winner. When the game is on the line, he does not make plays. The Skins loss to the Saints this season is an excellent example of the difference between a winning QB and an average QB. Brees was contained all game long, but he made the necessary plays in crunch time to guide an improbable comeback. During that time, Cousins could not covert 3d downs to salt the game away for his team. Worse yet, Brees did such a great job that the Skins got the ball back with about a minute left and the score tied. Cousins could not get his team in field goal range and threw a mind boggingly stupid pass and was called for intentional grounding.

Bottom line. Cousins is not a winner. So, I do not want him as the QB for my team. Also, one might wonder how well Cousins would do when not playing for Jay Gruden.... just ask Andy Daulton.

I disagree but this is a well thought out rationale of why not to get Cousins.  

[BurnleyJet]

19 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I disagree but this is a well thought out rationale of why not to get Cousins.  

My main issue is age and cost. Ok 30 isn't old for QB's, but it puts us in Win now mode, before we are ready. I'd sooner draft a QB. Althought if we took him I'd not hate it.

[NoBowles]

8 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

You're better than this. McCown had his best season as a pro, I'd bet if we could have a 29 year old version of this McCown with no injury history we'd sign up for it. You are also comparing apples to hand grenades.

McCown for 2017 does not equal Cousins for 2018 considering we have close to $100M in cap and 4 high draft picks to surround him with talent. I get the bias but you're not really making a sound argument.

Im better than what? Im fine with Cousins, but I think people need to realize what he is. He is not a game changing QB.

In fact, I would argue with our ineptitude at coaching, Cousins or Alex Smith probably make the most sense as sad as that is. We are going on our 3rd OC in 3 years, its literally impossible to develop a QB under those circumstances.

I also think we have to look at some simple facts.

1) If Cousins was as good as many are making him out to be, how does Washington let him go?

2) If he has choices, the only way he chooses to come to this sh*t show is if the Jets wildly overpay him.

3) If he is not game changing QB, and we wildly overpay him, it will make our ceiling a 9-7 or 10-6 type team if we can draft well and develop talent, which we have not shown the propensity to do.

[NoBowles]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Redskins had the 5th hardest schedule based on winning percentage and deal with significant losses to injuries on offense. Also, that wasn’t your question. Look at the Jets losses and tell me that if Cousins is the QB that the Jets loss to Tampa or Denver or the first Bills, Miami, and NE games. Probably beat the Chargers too. So again. Yes. 4-5 maybe even 6 wins better. 

Your acting like Kirk Cousins plays every game lights out, and that he has no games of the likes of the games McCown had in the games your mentioning. Go look at his game by game stats, he has his share of bad games. So your presumption that he is worth 5 more wins means he plays as well if not better than McCown did in all his well played games, and much better in the games McCown played poorly in. 

I am not arguing that Cousins is not better, he is, and is a clear upgrade. I just don't believe Cousins to be good enough to justify the cost it will take to get him to the NYJ. 

[NoBowles]

4 hours ago, SenorGato said:

None of this is how anything works, but you can’t be upset your nonsense question didn’t get whatever you think the answer should be (2?). Cousins is a significantly better QB than McCown and a decade younger. It is safe to say the Jets would be much better off. 

Why is my question nonsense, and what makes you think I am upset at all??

I have no problem with the Jets bringing in Cousins, even though I think our ceiling with him will be a hoping to squeak into a week 17 playoff spot needing help. I just don't see him as a game changing QB.

Game changing QB's just don't become available. He is a good not great QB, and we will have to drastically overpay him to come to this sh*t show.

[ChuckkieB]

5 hours ago, SenorGato said:

That’s funny. The Broncos are a terrible team outside of Miller, hence the top 5 draft pick. This isn’t five years ago. By FO’s rankings the Broncos were worse than the Jets, and bottom 3 in the league, on offense and STs. Calling them a SB contender is like calling the Jets a SB favorite. 

 

Even though this is true, the Broncos clearly have a winning pedigree far superior to the Jets, and if I were a QB, I'd rather play under the watch of John Elway then Mac any day of the week. 

[section314]

7 hours ago, David Harris said:

We should back up the Brinks for Cousins

 

but I don’t see anyway he’d ever pick us over a Super Bowl contender like the Denver Broncos

Think you may be sampling a bit too much of the stuff that is legal in Denver but not out here.

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Why is my question nonsense

The whole thing was nonsense:

- You ask how many wins Cousins adds to the 2017 Jets because that matters and can be answered legit.

- Get a fairly straight answer of five

- You break the news it might be 2 becsuse the Redskins won 7 and the Jetd won 5.

As far as the question itself I don’t know how it wasn’t nonsense. It was meant to serve  as a set up for a doozy of a hammer involving some super cas loling. If there was a “right” answer for you it would be between 2-4 because he’s had those records before, but nooot how it works. 

[SenorGato]

21 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Even though this is true, the Broncos clearly have a winning pedigree far superior to the Jets, and if I were a QB, I'd rather play under the watch of John Elway then Mac any day of the week. 

Even if this were true, nobody cares especially when the roster is both bad and old. They earned that 5th pick, if it wasn’t for the defense, still good but years past it’s prime, they would have easily been the worst team in the league this year.

[NoBowles]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The whole thing was nonsense:

- You ask how many wins Cousins adds to the 2017 Jets because that matters and can be answered legit.

- Get a fairly straight answer of five

- You break the news it might be 2 becsuse the Redskins won 7 and the Jetd won 5.

As far as the question itself I don’t know how it wasn’t nonsense. It was meant to serve  as a set up for a doozy of a hammer involving some super cas loling. If there was a “right” answer for you it would be between 2-4 because he’s had those records before, but nooot how it works. 

It wasn't meant for anything other than discussion, if you think that is nonsense, that is your right, but it wasn't my intention, nor was any lol'ing whatever that is. I expected those type of answers, but I just don't agree, and that is fine.  As I have said I am not opposed to getting him, hell, I think no matter what we do the next few years we are likely going through the motions. Only exception to that is if we land a big time QB in the draft. I just don't think Cousins is a big time QB, sorry but I don't. I think if he were, we would not be having this discussion, teams just don't allow big time QB's to get away. Only exception historically is Drew Bree's, and there were very unusual circumstances with that. Hell, the skins don't even have another QB on the roster they can hang their hopes on.

[SenorGato]

9 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I think the vast majority of Jets fans would sign off on Cousins, but this forum, especially after 2 bad  years is disproportionately filled with sad SOJFs that seem to root for the Jets to do bad so it can prove their point that the Johnson's are bad owners, Macc is an idiot, Bowles is a dope etc.. To the point that these guys were rooting against Adams/Mayes from day 1. 

If we get Cousins and he puts up 350 yards in week 1 next year, they will find a reason to bash him also. The better this team does the more those sad voices will be drowned out. 

I think people will be plenty excited if they put together a good team next year. Can’t deny that these people kiiiiiinda have a point with these guys and this org. Watson was right there last year!!! 

[SenorGato]

36 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

It wasn't meant for anything other than discussion

You got a non-antagonistic response and dropped one of those super cas lol posts in response! 

Edit: OOPS I read the wrong post, saw an lol. Not you! 

That said - I am more caught up in whether Cousins can pass the ball in the NFL than what size time he is. 

[bla bla bla]

15 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Im better than what? Im fine with Cousins, but I think people need to realize what he is. He is not a game changing QB.

In fact, I would argue with our ineptitude at coaching, Cousins or Alex Smith probably make the most sense as sad as that is. We are going on our 3rd OC in 3 years, its literally impossible to develop a QB under those circumstances.

I also think we have to look at some simple facts.

1) If Cousins was as good as many are making him out to be, how does Washington let him go?

2) If he has choices, the only way he chooses to come to this sh*t show is if the Jets wildly overpay him.

3) If he is not game changing QB, and we wildly overpay him, it will make our ceiling a 9-7 or 10-6 type team if we can draft well and develop talent, which we have not shown the propensity to do.

1) It's not Washington's choice to let him go. They have tried to sign him to an extension and Kirk declined without any counter offer. We don't know what kind of contract he wants, it appears he wants nothing to do with the Redskins. Judging by Gruden's comments the other day I'd say he knows Cousins is walking and the Skins won't get anything in return.

2) We actually don't know what he wants money wise. It seems logical that he would want the next highest paid contract (something that the next QBs up for a deal will beat) We know he is disgruntled and that he feels their regime never believed in him enough to pay him a fair market value. We know that the Jets tried to trade for him before he exploded onto the scene. As small as that may appear to be I think someone who has been playing me against the world could feel like the Jets believed in him early in his career. I'm not sure I can explain just how much cap space we have, we can make him the highest paid QB in NFL history and not hamstring ourselves. It will all come down to the structure of the contract. There is no reason he can't be under 12% of our cap come 2020 when we need to start resigning our guys on rookie deals.

3) Why is 9-7 with a QB like Cousins? It sounds like you think he is a Dalton, Tannehill, or Smith type player. The Redskins had 20 players on IR this season and he still led them to 7 wins. He went through an insane amount of players on his OL, had to deal with his top weapons constantly injured or leaving via FA, and his OC have changed 3 times since he's been there. One thing that is nice about his play style is that he doesn't lock on to one target so we likely won't need to pay a top WR at any point. After dealing with the circus of RG3 I'd say he responded pretty well to adversity. I'd also argue that every team is the NFC East is better than the teams in the AFC East outside the Patriots and their QB is 40 with no heir apparent. It could be appealing to be able to beat up on a weak division with him likely being the best QB in around 2 years time, possibly sooner if Father Time catches up to Brady. Other teams he could pick (Broncos/Cardinals/Jags) he'd go against would have Rivers, Carr, Smith/Mahomes or Rams/Seahawks/49ers or Luck/Mariota/Watson. I'd say the AFC East QB situation looks far more unstable than any of those other areas, maybe the Jags look appealing because Mariota hasn't proven much, Luck is coming back from an injury, and Watson is coming off his 2nd ACL tear but I'm not sure the Jags can make a similar offer to us without losing a lot of talent. 

Ultimately it comes down to what does Kirk want and it wouldn't appear like we are an outrageous option for him.