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Do we really want Kirk Cousins?


Freemanm

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2 hours ago, flgreen said:

If the Skins put the transition tag on him, which they expected to do, the bidding will begin at 30M.  If the Jets sign him at 30, they will still have 60+M.  If the Bronco's sign him for 30, they will be in over their heads, and have to strip their D to the ground.    Elway would have to be an idiot to do it, when he will be getting a QB in the draft.

Players are usually interested in how much money they walk out of the signing  room with

Lol no way are we signing Kirk Cousins for 30 mil a yr. when josh McCown is a fraction below him ( for next yr ) at a 1/10 of the the cost. Rather bring him back and overhaul our line, $$ difference to much better use. We are drafting a qb anyway. We need to build a actuall offense around the qb, whoever it is. Otherwise it won’t matter who is behind center.

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7 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol no way are we signing Kirk Cousins for 30 mil a yr. when josh McCown is a fraction below him ( for next yr ) at a 1/10 of the the cost. Rather bring him back and overhaul our line, $$ difference to much better use. We are drafting a qb anyway. We need to build a actuall offense around the qb, whoever it is. Otherwise it won’t matter who is behind center.

I think you are going to be very surprised.

It was widely reported 2 years ago that Macc tried to trade for Cousins after Cousins had rejected an offer from the Skins that guaranteed Cousins 53M in 2 years, Macc knew he had to top that offer.  He has over 90M cap space now.

LOL you think McCown is only a fraction below Cousins, I just don't know what to say. 

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16 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol no way are we signing Kirk Cousins for 30 mil a yr. when josh McCown is a fraction below him ( for next yr ) at a 1/10 of the the cost. Rather bring him back and overhaul our line, $$ difference to much better use. We are drafting a qb anyway. We need to build a actuall offense around the qb, whoever it is. Otherwise it won’t matter who is behind center.

Cousins is a 4,000 passer - who is 9 years younger than McCown.  They're not even remotely comparable.  

You're not bringing in cousins as a palceholder.  He's your future. 

You're bringing him in and trying to build a championship roster around him over the next 4-5 years.

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37 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Cousins is a 4,000 passer - who is 9 years younger than McCown.  They're not even remotely comparable.  

You're not bringing in cousins as a palceholder.  He's your future. 

You're bringing him in and trying to build a championship roster around him over the next 4-5 years.

I know. I can’t cringe thinking he is going to be top 5 paid qb. As long as we have an out if he doesn’t live up to it, I’d be on board

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Reposting from another Thread because wow, just wow.

All Stats courtesy of ProFootball Reference Website:

Kirk Cousins at NY Giants, Dec. 31, 2017:  20 of 37 (54%), 158 Yards, 0 TD, 3 INT - 31.1 Rating -- LOSS
Kirk Cousins at NY Giants, Sept. 25, 2016:  21 of 35 (60%), 296 Yards, 2 TD, 0 INT - 106.4 Rating -- WIN
Kirk Cousins at NY Giants, Sept. 24, 2015:  30 of 49 (61%), 316 Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT - 69.8 Rating -- LOSS
Kirk Cousins at NY Jets, Oct. 18, 2015:  25 of 43 (58%), 196 Yards, 1 TD, 2 INT - 57.9 Rating -- LOSS
Kirk Cousins at NY Giants 2014 - Did Not Play
Kirk Cousins at NY Giants, Dec. 29, 2013:  19 of 49 (38%), 169 Yards, 0 TD, 2 INT - 31.8 Rating -- LOSS
Kirk Cousins at NY Giants 2012 - Did Not Play

Kirk Cousins Career numbers in Met Life Stadium:

5 Games, 115 of 213 (54%) for 1,135 Yards (5.3 YPA), 4 TD's, 9 INT's, 1 Win, 4 Losses

Is this a 26-30 million a year QB in Met Life?

How about these stats?

21 of 33 (63%), 188 Yards, 1 TD, 3 INT - 51.1 Rating -- LOSS

18 of 30 (60%), 223 Yards, 3 TD, 2 INT - 69.2 Rating -- LOSS

31 of 54 (57%), 334 Yards, 1 TD, 3 INT - 58.7 Rating -- LOSS

20 of 34 (58%), 196 Yards, 1 TD, 3 INT - 48.2 Rating -- LOSS

16 of 29 (55%), 256 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT - 93.5 Rating -- LOSS

They're Peyton Mannings first 5 games at Foxboro.  Thank god we didn't get that clown.

             
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4 hours ago, PS17 said:
2015:  BY LOCATION CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD
OUTDOORS 346 496 3,771 69.8 7.60 78 25 9 25 101.1 25 47 1.9 13 5

We don’t want any part of that.

I say we hold out another 30 years for the next Brady to come waltzing through the door.

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1 hour ago, Pac said:

How about these stats?

21 of 33 (63%), 188 Yards, 1 TD, 3 INT - 51.1 Rating -- LOSS

18 of 30 (60%), 223 Yards, 3 TD, 2 INT - 69.2 Rating -- LOSS

31 of 54 (57%), 334 Yards, 1 TD, 3 INT - 58.7 Rating -- LOSS

20 of 34 (58%), 196 Yards, 1 TD, 3 INT - 48.2 Rating -- LOSS

16 of 29 (55%), 256 Yards, 2 TD, 1 INT - 93.5 Rating -- LOSS

They're Peyton Mannings first 5 games at Foxboro.  Thank god we didn't get that clown.

             

I'm sorry, I must have missed where the Pats signed a FA Manning to play all year at Foxboro for 30 million a year.

And lets be clear, Cousins isn't a clown nor am I saying he is.  He's a very solid pro QB generally.

He's simply not a 30 million a year level QB.

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

We don’t want any part of that.

I say we hold out another 30 years for the next Brady to come waltzing through the door.

Exactly. People around here are way to greedy for a fanbase that has goes decades without good, let along GREAT QB play. Cousins is a top 10 QB. He isn't top 2, but if you draft a kid like Rosen or Mayfield, you'd be pretty happy if he turns out to be a guy that puts up:
67pct Comp Pct, 4,300yds, 26-12TD/INT ratio a season. 

Well, Cousins has averaged that over his last 3 years playing behind a pretty average offense. He's had some weapons,  but Reed is always hurt, they have NO RBs, their WRs were pretty good before this year (Garcon/Jackson). The offensive line is nothing special. And it's not like you  had to surround him with Julio/Sanu/Freeman/Coleman for him to finally put up good numbers. 

Not to mention is tough as nails, has a chip on his shoulder and has something to prove. That is a recipe for success and a far better recipe than taking a random young QB in the draft and hoping Bowles pushes the right buttons. 

And I was on the "Suck for Sam" bandwagon since last year. So I have loved Darnold and I have loved this QB draft class, but rookie QBs are always a bit of  a crapshoot. 

Cousins would  be a great signing and would free us up to address other needs in the draft. 

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35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm sorry, I must have missed where the Pats signed a FA Manning to play all year at Foxboro for 30 million a year.

And lets be clear, Cousins isn't a clown nor am I saying he is.  He's a very solid pro QB generally.

He's simply not a 30 million a year level QB.

Like it or not that 30 million dollar a year mark is what very solid QB's are getting.  I think Cousins is better than both Carr and Stafford who are currently 1st and 2nd highest paid with 25 and 27 mil each. 

If you don't do it now it will only go higher as Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rogers are coming up on contract years and will certainly ask for more than Stafford.

The Jets can cross their fingers and draft a QB who can eventually be as good as Cousins, or just sign the sure thing now and build around a proven commodity. 

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want Baker Mayfield over Kirk Cousins.

Don't get me wrong..  if Cousins gets crazy with his demands or goes elsewhere then I am adamantly against signing the likes of Keenum, Bridgewater, Alex Smith etc..  If you don't get Kirk then resign McCown and by all means go all in drafting a QB - including trading up if necessary.

 

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9 hours ago, Pac said:

Like it or not that 30 million dollar a year mark is what very solid QB's are getting.  I think Cousins is better than both Carr and Stafford who are currently 1st and 2nd highest paid with 25 and 27 mil each. 

Agree to disagree.  Cousins is adequate, above average even, he is not great, he is not a Franchise QB, and I don't pay adequate 30 million a year and bind my franchise to it for half a decade minimum.  

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If you don't do it now it will only go higher as Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rogers are coming up on contract years and will certainly ask for more than Stafford.

Or you can draft a QB and get five seasons on the cheap if you have any talent at scouting, evaluation and drafting.

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The Jets can cross their fingers and draft a QB who can eventually be as good as Cousins, or just sign the sure thing now and build around a proven commodity.

Cousins was an after-thought 4th round pick in a year where the team took their real QB in round 1.  Lets not pretend he's a "sure thing" anywhere else.  His record in the wilds of Met Life show he sucks here, especially late in the year in weather.  

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I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want Baker Mayfield over Kirk Cousins.

Cousins is, today, better than Mayfield.  That's indisputable.

However, Cousins will cost 30 million a year for a minimum of five to six years, and eat up a massive portion of our cap for a player who will be age 30-36 over than period.  He will limit the ability of the team to put pieces around him.  He will perform, I have no doubt, in the first few years but the talent around him won't be enough, and we'd be 8-8, 7-9 or 9-7, same as the Skins (who over Cousins time have been more talented than the Jets).  By the time we assemble enough talent around him at low cost only, Cousins will be 34 or 35, on the downside of his career with a dwindling arm.  

Signing Cousins to a massive deal is signing Neil O'Donnell to a massive deal.  It could work, for a short period, but it'll never win a title and it will hamstring the team everywhere else.  

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Don't get me wrong..  if Cousins gets crazy with his demands or goes elsewhere then I am adamantly against signing the likes of Keenum, Bridgewater, Alex Smith etc..

I am against Broke Knee Bridgewater, the risk is too high.  I am against Keenim because Keenum sucks, his little flash in the pan nonwithstanding.

I would accept Alex Smith on a lower cost deal as a bridge to a #1 draft pick QB.  

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  If you don't get Kirk then resign McCown and by all means go all in drafting a QB - including trading up if necessary.

All this talk is irrelevant.  What almost assuredly WILL happen is Macc will resign McCown and start McCown.  We will not draft a QB in round 1, we'll draft defense (Fitzpatrick is almost a sure thing if he falls to us) because that's what Macc and Bowles do.  We might draft another low tier prospect in say, the 3rd of 4th.  And there will be no big name FA QB signing.  We will go into 2018 with McCown starting, Hack backing him up, and the draft pick replacing Petty as the who-cares #3.  

Cousins will not shake loose, and the Skins will resign him and never win anything of note with him.  

That's the future.

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Agree to disagree.  Cousins in adequate, he is not great, and I don't pay adequate 30 million a year and bind my franchise to it for half a decade minimum.

 

Nooooot how NFL contracts work. Pretty much everyone here should have picked up on that by now. The hyperbole alone required in the arguments against Cousins should offer the hint that the Jets should be all over this guy. 

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Just now, nico002 said:

I don’t get the obsession with the money. We have more cap that we can spend and it’s not your money!

id rather pay a qb and get cheap years form other positions than overpay for those in free agency 

Think of what WE might spend it on One Day in the Future! It’s also possible Lord Johnson will notice how we protect his money and offer perhaps fresh bread in thanks! 

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8 hours ago, nico002 said:

I don’t get the obsession with the money. We have more cap that we can spend and it’s not your money!

id rather pay a qb and get cheap years form other positions than overpay for those in free agency 

I simply feel that the way you should spend Fa money is to use to to add to your build via the draft.  so many big Fa deals have turned to fools gold.

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On 1/4/2018 at 7:20 PM, flgreen said:

I think you are going to be very surprised.

It was widely reported 2 years ago that Macc tried to trade for Cousins after Cousins had rejected an offer from the Skins that guaranteed Cousins 53M in 2 years, Macc knew he had to top that offer.  He has over 90M cap space now.

LOL you think McCown is only a fraction below Cousins, I just don't know what to say. 

Thank you!!!

We have Jets fans out here who were clamoring like nuts for Fitzmagic and others supporting career loser in McCown (nice guy); and now they are saying that a top ten QB in Cousins is beneath them...

It is a joke!

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Folks please stop comparing Neil O'Donnell to Kirk Cousins, it is EMBARRASSING!!!

Neil O'Donnell had his best years with Pittsburgh and those two years went like this..

"In the 1992 NFL season O'Donnell would throw for 2,283 passing yards, 13 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions and receive his only Pro Bowl selection of his career. The Steelers would finish 11-5 and take the AFC Central division title, but lost to the Buffalo Bills 24-3 in a division playoff game.

In 1993, he would have another "great" season throwing for a career-high 3,208 passing yards, 14 touchdowns, and 7 interceptions finishing with a 1.4 interception percentage, the second lowest in his career."

Obviously O'Donnell's very best years are not even comparable to Cousins worst years (different eras, I get it) once he became the starter, to compare the two QB is beyond ludicrous.

As I posted elsewhere....

Kirk Cousins ranks third among qualifying NFL quarterbacks in completion percentage (67.0) and sixth in passer rating (97.5) -- rivaling two-time MVP Aaron Rodgers in both categories. Over that 48-game sample size, he also ranks an impressive fifth in adjusted net yards per attempt, a discerning metric that rewards a strong touchdown-to-interception ratio and punishes sacks taken. He also has averaged 27 (TD) passes against 12 (INTs). Cousins is just the 11th quarterback in history to reach the 4,000-yard passing mark in three consecutive seasons, joining a host of current and future Hall of Famers.

Get that Hall Of Fame Numbers!!

Neil O'Donnell could only dream of those numbers and even then he should wake up and apologize.

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23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The idea of cousins is growing on me.
This is going to be sacrilege around here but if we sign Cousins - in order to win a super bowl with him we’re going to need an elite D.

Sign cousins. Build a solid o line. And draft defense. Defense defense.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

We have done that for past 10 yrs ha. We can draft a little D, but it’s gotta be 80% O for once. As opposed to 80% past few yrs that have gotten us to wear we are today. We def need few more pieces on D, but O needs to be the focus for once. If Cousins requires a top #1 defense to carry him like mark Sanchez needed, what are we paying him 30 mil a yr for ? Lol

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14 hours ago, nico002 said:

I don’t get the obsession with the money. We have more cap that we can spend and it’s not your money!

id rather pay a qb and get cheap years form other positions than overpay for those in free agency 

The best argument for Cousins is we're stuck with Macc anyway, and the only college QBs he's shown serious interest in were QBs taken with one of the top 2 picks overall. Real stretch for a QB-less team's GM to have interest in one of those, I know. Other than consensus very high-ranked picks (i.e. QBs almost everyone thinks would be average at worst) he has shown no eye for identifying QB talent.

Cousins may not prove worthy of his percentage of the team's assets, but a person throwing darts at a composite of assessing value of QB prospects these past 3 seasons would be no less a failure than Maccagnan.

Based on that it's not so terrible. One could argue it's personal growth that this glorified scout admits his scouting skills are worth less than nothing.

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Here's what we know. % wise Cousins is 3rd in the league. The Redskins are a mess & have been ravaged by injury & haven't had a decent defense since Kirks been there. He has a chip on his shoulder. He's incredibly accurate in the short game a prerequisite for success in Mortons WCO. He's a leader. He's tough & doesn't get hurt. It's not our money. He'll instill confidence in the players around him. 

Yea, I want no part of that, lol.

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9 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

We have done that for past 10 yrs ha. We can draft a little D, but it’s gotta be 80% O for once. As opposed to 80% past few yrs that have gotten us to wear we are today. We def need few more pieces on D, but O needs to be the focus for once. If Cousins requires a top #1 defense to carry him like mark Sanchez needed, what are we paying him 30 mil a yr for ? Lol

I do understand and I'm not happy about it but I don't think Cousins is capable of winning a Super Bowl as an "offensive" team.  If you're going to win with Cousins you'll need a dominant defense.

My preference is to draft Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold (who can be an offensive superstar) and build an strong offense around them.  at that point I agree - 80% offense.

 

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On 1/4/2018 at 11:14 PM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Exactly. People around here are way to greedy for a fanbase that has goes decades without good, let along GREAT QB play. Cousins is a top 10 QB. He isn't top 2, but if you draft a kid like Rosen or Mayfield, you'd be pretty happy if he turns out to be a guy that puts up:
67pct Comp Pct, 4,300yds, 26-12TD/INT ratio a season. 

Well, Cousins has averaged that over his last 3 years playing behind a pretty average offense. He's had some weapons,  but Reed is always hurt, they have NO RBs, their WRs were pretty good before this year (Garcon/Jackson). The offensive line is nothing special. And it's not like you  had to surround him with Julio/Sanu/Freeman/Coleman for him to finally put up good numbers. 

Not to mention is tough as nails, has a chip on his shoulder and has something to prove. That is a recipe for success and a far better recipe than taking a random young QB in the draft and hoping Bowles pushes the right buttons. 

And I was on the "Suck for Sam" bandwagon since last year. So I have loved Darnold and I have loved this QB draft class, but rookie QBs are always a bit of  a crapshoot. 

Cousins would  be a great signing and would free us up to address other needs in the draft. 

I urge you to go back and watch the skins games this season. (NFL game pass is only $100). Cousins almost never makes a play when his team needs it. He is not clutch. And he is not a leader. Those qualities are essential for a winning QB. He is a compiler who puts together a nice stat line without really having a significant impact on the game's outcome. You really have to watch the games to understand that he is fool's gold.

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On 1/4/2018 at 10:39 PM, FidelioJet said:

The idea of cousins is growing on me.
This is going to be sacrilege around here but if we sign Cousins - in order to win a super bowl with him we’re going to need an elite D.

Sign cousins. Build a solid o line. And draft defense. Defense defense.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Its growing on me too.  He's a borderline top 10 QB right now.  Do we think any of the QB's coming out will be a top 10 QB in the future?  It's possible but how often does a QB like Cousins become obtainable?  We have the money and he's young enough to be around for many years.  Yes, we would be the team that gives the highest salary ever to a QB but it is what it is. I'm sure every year or so other QB's will get even more $$.  If old man McCown can move the team down the field for us then imagine Cousins doing it and actually getting in the end zone in stead of fg's.

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So, if you are the Skins and you let Cousins leave, who are you signing to play QB? The FA market after Cousins is very mediocre. The Skins won't be drafting high enough to get a shot at the top 4 QBs (unless they are trading up). I just think at the end of the day, they work something out with Cousins. 

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1 minute ago, prime21 said:

Its growing on me too.  He's a borderline top 10 QB right now.  Do we think any of the QB's coming out will be a top 10 QB in the future?  It's possible but how often does a QB like Cousins become obtainable?  We have the money and he's young enough to be around for many years.  Yes, we would be the team that gives the highest salary ever to a QB but it is what it is. I'm sure every year or so other QB's will get even more $$.  If old man McCown can move the team down the field for us then imagine Cousins doing it and actually getting in the end zone in stead of fg's.

Yes, my concern is Cousins is 30, so you really have about 5 years to win.  So the window is tight to win - especially with a young team like ours.  And because you are paying him so much you won't have a lot of money to bring in the high priced FA's...but you get to keep and use your 3 top 50 picks this year.

Draft a QB and you run the risk of a bust but you also have the opportunity of finding your QB for the next 15 years - and be able to take your time to build your team around him.  You'll be about to spend this massive $100mm on FA's to get some initial support for the kid.  but you're likely trading up to 3 so your 3 top 50 picks are gone on one player (and likely another pick next year)

It really is an interesting choice.  My choice is get Mayfield and use the entire cap to buy offense.

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7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, my concern is Cousins is 30, so you really have about 5 years to win.  So the window is tight to win - especially with a young team like ours.  And because you are paying him so much you won't have a lot of money to bring in the high priced FA's...but you get to keep and use your 3 top 50 picks this year.

Draft a QB and you run the risk of a bust but you also have the opportunity of finding your QB for the next 15 years - and be able to take your time to build your team around him.  You'll be about to spend this massive $100mm on FA's to get some initial support for the kid.  but you're likely trading up to 3 so your 3 top 50 picks are gone on one player (and likely another pick next year)

It really is an interesting choice.  My choice is get Mayfield and use the entire cap to buy offense.

I'm thinking Mayfield should be there for us at 6 but of course anything can happen.  As you said, it is a very interesting choice.  If I had to bet then I would say Mac probably wants to draft the QB. If that's the case then will he settle for whoever is available at #6 or does he identify the guy they want and trade up to try and get him?  Man there is so much time between now, FA and the draft that are eyes will be bloodshot reading pots, mock drafts and articles.  Should be fun!

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12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Yes, my concern is Cousins is 30, so you really have about 5 years to win.  So the window is tight to win - especially with a young team like ours.  And because you are paying him so much you won't have a lot of money to bring in the high priced FA's...but you get to keep and use your 3 top 50 picks this year.

Draft a QB and you run the risk of a bust but you also have the opportunity of finding your QB for the next 15 years - and be able to take your time to build your team around him.  You'll be about to spend this massive $100mm on FA's to get some initial support for the kid.  but you're likely trading up to 3 so your 3 top 50 picks are gone on one player (and likely another pick next year)

It really is an interesting choice.  My choice is get Mayfield and use the entire cap to buy offense.

i think the way mccags and bowles would look at it is, with cousins we have a legit chance to make the playoffs for the next 5-7 years and perhaps compete for the division if brady finally retires.  it would also give this regime more time to groom another qb behind cousins, like the redskins did when they took him after rg3.  the jets could still draft a qb in the 2nd round who has upside and let him develop for 2 years.  how sick would it be if the jets were able to draft someone like lamar jackson in the 2nd round, and groom him behind cousins?  he could drop, you just never know.  

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8 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I'm thinking Mayfield should be there for us at 6 but of course anything can happen.  As you said, it is a very interesting choice.  If I had to bet then I would say Mac probably wants to draft the QB. If that's the case then will he settle for whoever is available at #6 or does he identify the guy they want and trade up to try and get him?  Man there is so much time between now, FA and the draft that are eyes will be bloodshot reading pots, mock drafts and articles.  Should be fun!

Yup..

The next 3 months are going to be very interesting.  I mean it's not just us - what are the Giants thinking? What is Denver thinking? Buffalo? Cincinnati? Miami (who are the QB needy teams and what do they havre to trade up)

If you believe Buffalo and Denver aren't trading up then you could probably sit tight and wait at 6 - but if Mac has identified Mayfield as his guy - then you can't F around with it.  You can't risk it.

If I had to bet - Mac is thinking Cousins.  He's right in his wheelhouse.  Low floor yet low ceiling.

My money is Cousins is a Jet next year. 

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33 minutes ago, maury77 said:

So, if you are the Skins and you let Cousins leave, who are you signing to play QB? The FA market after Cousins is very mediocre. The Skins won't be drafting high enough to get a shot at the top 4 QBs (unless they are trading up). I just think at the end of the day, they work something out with Cousins. 

Pure speculation but I get the sense Cousins wants nothing to do with the Skins - or they would have worked something out already.   IMO he's going, it's just a matter of where.

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