Do we really want Kirk Cousins?

[SenorGato]

Teams that wouldn’t swap their QB situation for Cousins:

Packers

Falcons

Chargers

Eagles

Texans 

Steelers

Patriots

Colts

Raiders

Rams

Saints

Ravens

Lions

Bucs

I don’t think this necessarily means the incumbent QB is outright better. 

[bla bla bla]

5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Alex Smith got a better coach in Jim Harbaugh who recognized he needed a different QB if he wanted to win a SB.

Why do Jet fans want someone else's unwanted QB? I want my own QB. A guy who will be the QB for 12-15 years. 

Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Drew Brees, Steve Young, and Peyton Manning -- These are all of the QB's who won 1 SB after having been the starting QB for a different team. Jim Plunkett won 2 SBs with the Raiders after having been the starting QB for the Patriots.

Dilfer, Williams, Johnson and Plunkett were picked up from the garbage heap.

Bress' and Manning's careers were thought to be over due to injuries and were not resigned (or cut) from their teams.

Steve Young was acquired for a second and fourth round draft choices - not a very hefty price.

So, we are still waiting for a healthy starting QB at, or near, his peak to switch teams and win a SB. It hasn't happened before and it's not going to happen with Cousins.

Why do you keep saying this? It is not true at all, they've tried to resign him he doesn't want to be there. This isn't like any QB situation we've ever seen before.

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Today’s hilarious new knock on Cousins:

He’s healthy

?

If a 2nd and 4th was cheap for Young, what’s so crippling about Cousin’s contract with $80 million in cap space before cuts or the cap going up over the next 3 years?

Folks are making stuff up...

They want us to have one shot and if the Jets are wrong they want to complain for the next twenty years, "how no one knew or could have done anything differently", when having real options is now avaible for the Jets.

Not one person has stated a specific player or strategy that would have to be abandoned by acquiring Cousins; not one...

Of course getting Cousins at a high price would impact some decisions but I argue nothing is as impact-full as getting someone who can operate the QB position at a high level in the NFL and until the Jets do that we aint winning nothing; and drafting a QB guarantees nothing (see Andrew Luck) (injury Watson), you have to take a chance to build your team now and have multiple QBs who can win in the NFL (see Vikings).

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

That's not even the right question to ask.  The better question is how many teams would be worse if Cousins was their QB?  It's not more than a handful.

And the best question that only should concerns us, is who could the Jets get, who will be available, that would be a better fit than Cousins from a talent stand point?

Answer = No one (Bridgewater = injury risk)

The Jets have to stop going for adequate or passable for the QB position, it isn't working..

[Greenseed4]

Interesting that Luke Falk may be available in the third round, and his pro comp is Kirk Cousins. 

I say we get both, and put our draft capital into a revamped O-Line.

[SenorGato]

If they sign Cousins I want Rudolph or possibly this Kyle Lauletta guy, whichever is later. Are there any other three year starters with a 60% or better completion% in this draft besides these two and Mayfield? 

[jetstream23]

I think Cousins just made himself more money in Free Agency by virtue of how Tyrod Taylor and Alex Smith did this weekend.  Not that Smith was particularly bad but he couldn't do squat once Kelce left the game injured.  If Alex Smith can't get some offense going with Kareem Hunt, Tyreek Hill, etc. because he needs a Pro Bowl TE in the lineup as well then how is he going to do running an offense with Bilal Powell, Robby Anderson and ASJ?

The Jets don't need a QB that can go along for the ride with a great supporting cast, they need a guy who can lead a group of average/good players to very good results.  Cousins looks like the only available guy who could do that (Garopolo would be the second if he hits FA which I don't think will happen).

[Philc1]

You guys do realize the skins are going to franchise tag him again?  It’s not only a matter of money we probably have to give up our first round pick too 

[Sonny Werblin]

8 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Why do you keep saying this? It is not true at all, they've tried to resign him he doesn't want to be there. This isn't like any QB situation we've ever seen before.

I keep saying it because Cousins keeps saying it. Is he a liar? 

Quote

Entering his third straight offseason without a long-term contract, Kirk Cousins has already said he's "fully invested" in being the quarterback for the Washington Redskins "in 2018 or beyond."

But then again, after he says it, he normally walks it back...

Quote

 

 Then again, both Cousins and the Redskins have at different times expressed interest in sticking together for the long haul.

Answering a question about his desire to stay in Washington at the Q and A, Cousins said "the short answer is yes."

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-says-dan-snyder-and-the-redskins-are-all-in-on-re-signing-him/

This is why he is NOT a winner. Bottom line is that winning is not a top priority for Cousins. He will have a fine career with lots of good stats and many 8-8 seasons and perhaps a couple of more one and done playoff experiences unless he is signed by D first team where the QB is not relied upon to make game winning plays. Just look where he ranks for 4th qtr comebacks among current QBs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_active.htm

With 8 Cousins trails Ryan Tannehill (12), March Sanchez (10) and Matt Cassell (9).  Mariotta is already tied with 15 less starts. Prescott trails Cousins at 5 with 25 less starts.

I understand that knowledgeable football people like Kirk Cousins and want him as their starting QB. I do not. Watching him play and considering his duplicitous statements related to his contract and desire to be a Redskin, my opinion is that he is neither a winner nor a leader of men. I really don't mind that others have a different opinion, and only time will tell who is correct in their evaluation of Kirk Cousins.

[JetsFanatic]

If the Jets have an opportunity to sign Cousins they should absolutely do it! It would finally solve our QB position for the foreseeable future. I would much prefer him to an unknown quantity.

[SenorGato]

 

Quote

This is why he is NOT a winner. Bottom line is that winning is not a top priority for Cousins.

 

I missed the explanation, was kinda glossed over. Is he not a winner because he would not resign with the Redskins? This is up there with knocking him for being healthy yesterday. 

 

[Warfish]

15 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Why do Jet fans want someone else's unwanted QB? I want my own QB. A guy who will be the QB for 12-15 years. 

Because someone has to play till we find that diamond guy, that Tom Brady of our own we all want.

Because going 10-6 with a Smith or Cousins while we work to find "that guy" > going 5-11 under Geno, or Fitz, or McCown, or Petyy, or fill-in-loser-here.

Because an endless string of "try out the new guy, oh he sucks, try out the new new guy, oh he sucks, try out the new new new guy, etc" simply hasn't worked here, at all.

Because competing and being in the running for the playoffs > being a perenial loser whose only hope for the future is an all-or-nothing shot akin to playing the MegaMillions lottery.  Many enter, they almost all lose.

I'm sick of losing.  I demand to compete WHILE we work to find the holy grail savior QB.

Unless the Redskins are dumber than even I think, they'll get this, and resign Cousins.  He'll never hit free agency.

But the Chiefs will almost assuredly dump Alex Smith, and thats the perfect QB for this team to play right now while we work to find the future legit Franchise QB.

[Sonny Werblin]

54 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 

 

I missed the explanation, was kinda glossed over. Is he not a winner because he would not resign with the Redskins? This is up there with knocking him for being healthy yesterday. 

 

Just look in the past at how QB's who are leaders and winners behave in their contract negotiations. Cousins is more Jeff George than Tom Brady.

[Sonny Werblin]

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Because someone has to play till we find that diamond guy, that Tom Brady of our own we all want.

Because going 10-6 with a Smith or Cousins while we work to find "that guy" > going 5-11 under Geno, or Fitz, or McCown, or Petyy, or fill-in-loser-here.

Because an endless string of "try out the new guy, oh he sucks, try out the new new guy, oh he sucks, try out the new new new guy, etc" simply hasn't worked here, at all.

Because competing and being in the running for the playoffs > being a perenial loser whose only hope for the future is an all-or-nothing shot akin to playing the MegaMillions lottery.  Many enter, they almost all lose.

I'm sick of losing.  I demand to compete WHILE we work to find the holy grail savior QB.

Unless the Redskins are dumber than even I think, they'll get this, and resign Cousins.  He'll never hit free agency.

But the Chiefs will almost assuredly dump Alex Smith, and thats the perfect QB for this team to play right now while we work to find the future legit Franchise QB.

So, you are looking for Steve DeBerg. You shouldn't have to break the bank to sign a Steve DeBerg .

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

If the Jets have an opportunity to sign Cousins they should absolutely do it! It would finally solve our QB position for the foreseeable future. I would much prefer him to an unknown quantity.

We have different foreseeable futures. Cousins will be 30 during the 2018 season.

[Ovechkin8]

6 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I keep saying it because Cousins keeps saying it. Is he a liar? 

But then again, after he says it, he normally walks it back...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-says-dan-snyder-and-the-redskins-are-all-in-on-re-signing-him/

This is why he is NOT a winner. Bottom line is that winning is not a top priority for Cousins. He will have a fine career with lots of good stats and many 8-8 seasons and perhaps a couple of more one and done playoff experiences unless he is signed by D first team where the QB is not relied upon to make game winning plays. Just look where he ranks for 4th qtr comebacks among current QBs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_active.htm

With 8 Cousins trails Ryan Tannehill (12), March Sanchez (10) and Matt Cassell (9).  Mariotta is already tied with 15 less starts. Prescott trails Cousins at 5 with 25 less starts.

I understand that knowledgeable football people like Kirk Cousins and want him as their starting QB. I do not. Watching him play and considering his duplicitous statements related to his contract and desire to be a Redskin, my opinion is that he is neither a winner nor a leader of men. I really don't mind that others have a different opinion, and only time will tell who is correct in their evaluation of Kirk Cousins.

Listen to the entire interview if you haven't.  No offense but this is shoddy research at best.

In the DC area on CBS radio Cousins came on for a 2 hour interview last Friday on the Grant and Danny show.  Every Redskin fan listened to every minute of it including yours truly.  Did you?  I suspect not due to the misrepresentation of facts.  I listened to it twice and listened to all the other stations parse out every detail today.

Kirk is not all about the money.  The reason he didn't sign or even negotiate with the Skins last year is to see where the team was at this year (specifically since Jackson/Garcon were not retained)

Again I watched every single snap he has taken as a Redskin (many times twice or three times).  I listened to EVERY single Chris Cooley film breakdown following every one of those games.

BTW - he has engineered many crucial 4th comebacks that don't count since his defense lets the other team go right down the field and score.  Example the Kansas City game earlier this year.  Detroit Lions game last year.  There are many others where our atrocious defense has cost us games.

Also not sure how you are measuring being a "leader of men".  But his teammates LOVE him.  In fact Trent Williams and Morgan Moses played most of the season when they needed surgery.  Moses even played the last game.  When asked they specifically mentioned they didn't want to leave Kirk hanging.   His teammates LOVE the guy.  The fans love him EVEN more.  The Owner loves him.

We just have an idiot arrogant GM

[Ovechkin8]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

 

Unless the Redskins are dumber than even I think, they'll get this, and resign Cousins.  He'll never hit free agency.

But the Chiefs will almost assuredly dump Alex Smith, and thats the perfect QB for this team to play right now while we work to find the future legit Franchise QB.

Sadly Cousins wants to test the market.  He said as much.  He wants to see what else is out there in terms of team situations.

The Skins can perhaps keep him 1 more year at best.

His agent played this perfectly from the get go.  

[Jetsplayer21]

6 minutes ago, Ovechkin8 said:

Listen to the entire interview if you haven't.  No offense but this is shoddy research at best.

In the DC area on CBS radio Cousins came on for a 2 hour interview last Friday on the Grant and Danny show.  Every Redskin fan listened to every minute of it including yours truly.  Did you?  I suspect not due to the misrepresentation of facts.  I listened to it twice and listened to all the other stations parse out every detail today.

Kirk is not all about the money.  he didn't sign or even negotiate with the Skins last year is to see where the team was at this year (specifically since Jackson/Garcon were not retained)

Again I watched every single snap he has taken as a Redskin (many times twice or three times).  I listened to EVERY single Chris Cooley film breakdown following every one of those games.

BTW - he has engineered many crucial 4th comebacks that don't count since his defense lets the other team go right down the field and score.  Example the Kansas City game earlier this year.  Detroit Lions game last year.  There are many others where our atrocious defense has cost us games.

Also not sure how you are measuring being a "leader of men".  But his teammates LOVE him.  In fact Trent Williams and Morgan Moses played most of the season when they needed surgery.  Moses even played the last game.  When asked they specifically mentioned they didn't want to leave Kirk hanging.   His teammates LOVE the guy.  The fans love him EVEN more.  The Owner loves him.

We just have an idiot arrogant GM

If that’s true jets must not be too high on his list

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, Ovechkin8 said:

Also not sure how you are measuring being a "leader of men".  But his teammates LOVE him.  In fact Trent Williams and Morgan Moses played most of the season when they needed surgery.  Moses even played the last game.  When asked they specifically mentioned they didn't want to leave Kirk hanging.   His teammates LOVE the guy.  The fans love him EVEN more.  The Owner loves him.

Man, I really hope the Jets land this guy.

Trent Williams and Ovechkin are amazing talents btw. 

[Ovechkin8]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:12 AM, FidelioJet said:

I do understand and I'm not happy about it but I don't think Cousins is capable of winning a Super Bowl as an "offensive" team.  If you're going to win with Cousins you'll need a dominant defense.

My preference is to draft Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold (who can be an offensive superstar) and build an strong offense around them.  at that point I agree - 80% offense.

 

How do you figure?

The Skins have been about .500 the last 3 years while have a BOTTOM 3 defense!!!  

One thing Skins and Jets fan know well is how to strike out on 1st round QBs over the years.   They are ALL shiny new and exciting before they get drafted!

Shuler, Ramsey, Campbell, RGIII, Sanchez, Geno Smith etc etc

For every Wentz there are 10 Ryan Leaf's.

 

[Ovechkin8]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If that’s true jets must not be too high on his list

After listening to that interview I think Cleveland is definitely out.   Not sure about the Jets but yeah I can see you being right.

SenorGato,

Right on.  We just can't seem to ever get the right mix in DC lately.  Ughhh

[JoJoTownsell1]

14 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You guys do realize the skins are going to franchise tag him again?  It’s not only a matter of money we probably have to give up our first round pick too 

So you think the Skins will franchise tag him for 34 million? Um, no. 

[Warfish]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

So you think the Skins will franchise tag him for 34 million? Um, no. 

Nope.

But they can sign him for $28.5/mil a year if they like, because that's what he's going to get on the open market.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, Ovechkin8 said:

After listening to that interview I think Cleveland is definitely out.   Not sure about the Jets but yeah I can see you being right.

SenorGato,

Right on.  We just can't seem to ever get the right mix in DC lately.  Ughhh

I think it’s not just about how bad jets are right now, it’s no secret to qbs who do their hw on jets, offense is definitely a second rate citizen to the D under Todd Bowles. Bowles is extremely conservative. Qbs don’t like to be handcuffed, they want to pass, not just on 3rd and long when the D knows pass is coming. Hearing Bowles wants more control over the offense is not something FA qbs will want to hear either. We know that means more running, until pass is last resort.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Nope.

But they can sign him for $28.5/mil a year if they like, because that's what he's going to get on the open market.

Sure, he can but if the Skins have balked at giving him that kind of contract in the past I am not sure why they would do it now and I am not sure why Cousins would want to stay with a team that has failed to show him that they wanted him. 

At this point I am more worried about the Broncos, but we have more cap space than all the teams mentioned to be interested in Cousins. We also have good young talent and extra cap space to go out and get more players. If the Skins/Broncos spend 28 million on Cousins they will be in cap hell. 

[Jetsplayer21]

5 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

So you think the Skins will franchise tag him for 34 million? Um, no. 

So if he isn’t worth 34 mil on a 1 yr deal, he isn’t worth more than 25 mil on a multi-yr deal then. 

[kelly]

he's signing with denver..   

[#27TheDominator]

20 minutes ago, Ovechkin8 said:

Sadly Cousins wants to test the market.  He said as much.  He wants to see what else is out there in terms of team situations.

The Skins can perhaps keep him 1 more year at best.

His agent played this perfectly from the get go.  

His agent only played it perfectly because he played so well.  If he went all Derek Anderson people would be mocking him.  

[Ovechkin8]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

His agent only played it perfectly because he played so well.  If he went all Derek Anderson people would be mocking him.  

Another way to look at it is that his agent, along with Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVey KNEW how good he was all along.

 

just listen to Mike Shanahan interviews before Kirk even was 5 games into his 1st season as a starter.   Find them if you can.  They are prophetic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/10/09/mike-shanahan-cannot-stop-praising-kirk-cousins/?utm_term=.b2c23d8d35e6

 

 

[Philc1]

23 minutes ago, kelly said:

he's signing with denver..   

If I was in Cousins’ position it’s a no brainer.  Better team, better GM

[whodeawhodat]

45 minutes ago, Ovechkin8 said:

Sadly Cousins wants to test the market.  He said as much.  He wants to see what else is out there in terms of team situations.

The Skins can perhaps keep him 1 more year at best.

His agent played this perfectly from the get go.  

First off, thanks for posting. 

I have heard that there was no way they could keep him last year and yet the skins got him back.  then i heard that there is absolutely no way they can keep him this year and it looks like they may be able to?  I thought there was a limit to years you can franchise the same player.  Was last year the 2nd time they franchised him?  This would be the 3rd year(if they do)?

[Philc1]

36 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

So you think the Skins will franchise tag him for 34 million? Um, no. 

We did the same thing with Abe in 2006 franchise tag just to use as trade bait um yeah

[flgreen]

1 minute ago, whodeawhodat said:

First off, thanks for posting. 

I have heard that there was no way they could keep him last year and yet the skins got him back.  then i heard that there is absolutely no way they can keep him this year and it looks like they may be able to?  I thought there was a limit to years you can franchise the same player.  Was last year the 2nd time they franchised him?  This would be the 3rd year(if they do)?

They can franchise him one more time at 34M  The likely approach will be to put the 29.4 M Transition tag on him

[Ovechkin8]

Just now, whodeawhodat said:

First off, thanks for posting. 

I have heard that there was no way they could keep him last year and yet the skins got him back.  then i heard that there is absolutely no way they can keep him this year and it looks like they may be able to?  I thought there was a limit to years you can franchise the same player.  Was last year the 2nd time they franchised him?  This would be the 3rd year(if they do)?

They used the exclusive tag the last 2 years and that can be used 1 more year at a prohibitive 34 million.

they can transition him indefinitely if they like starting this year at 28 million and that would increase 20% every year going forward.

transition tag means he can negotiate with other teams and sign a contract with them but the skins would have a chance to match and keep him

 

 

[Sonny Werblin]

51 minutes ago, Ovechkin8 said:

Listen to the entire interview if you haven't.  No offense but this is shoddy research at best.

In the DC area on CBS radio Cousins came on for a 2 hour interview last Friday on the Grant and Danny show.  Every Redskin fan listened to every minute of it including yours truly.  Did you?  I suspect not due to the misrepresentation of facts.  I listened to it twice and listened to all the other stations parse out every detail today.

Kirk is not all about the money.  The reason he didn't sign or even negotiate with the Skins last year is to see where the team was at this year (specifically since Jackson/Garcon were not retained)

Again I watched every single snap he has taken as a Redskin (many times twice or three times).  I listened to EVERY single Chris Cooley film breakdown following every one of those games.

BTW - he has engineered many crucial 4th comebacks that don't count since his defense lets the other team go right down the field and score.  Example the Kansas City game earlier this year.  Detroit Lions game last year.  There are many others where our atrocious defense has cost us games.

Also not sure how you are measuring being a "leader of men".  But his teammates LOVE him.  In fact Trent Williams and Morgan Moses played most of the season when they needed surgery.  Moses even played the last game.  When asked they specifically mentioned they didn't want to leave Kirk hanging.   His teammates LOVE the guy.  The fans love him EVEN more.  The Owner loves him.

We just have an idiot arrogant GM

LOL ... so he is balls out a GREAT QB and his teammates, the fans, and even the meddling owner LOVE him, yet they can't seem to sign him.... solely because the GM is in the way. Sounds fishy.

PS. I get a kick out of your screen name in a debate over whether a player is a winner.