Do we really want Kirk Cousins?

[Drums]

42 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

This isn't about Woody's pocket book...There's a salary cap that has to be spent by league rules. As fans we're trying to determine the best way in which to spend that money.  

For the purposes of this debate and thread it is our money to spend.

If he’s too expensive then move on but people here are acting like an above avg qb hitting FA is something that EVER happens. What are we waiting for? We have all these young guys playing cheap for the next few years. What do we really have to lose?

[SenorGato]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

I need to see his playoff record..and his regular season record now.

0-1 and something like 24-23

[JoJoTownsell1]

Just now, Untouchable said:

For those asking if Cousins is so good, why haven’t the Redskins signed him longterm...

Who can explain how Dan Snyder’s goofy brain works?

This is the same f*ckhead who tossed a $100 million contract at an interior DL who was already known as lazy and cancerous at a time when the cap wasn’t nearly as high as it is now.

But he won’t do the same for a franchise QB who consistently produces and has never said peep to the media or acted out over still not having a longterm deal.

The Redskins are dumb. There’s your answer.

And the Skins did pay Cousins 19 million in 2016 and 23 million in 2017 (making him the 5th highest paid QB in the NFL).

[bla bla bla]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

They've had a decade to build a team around these guys. 

Average NFL career is 3 years, it's not too often you find teams that keep talent for a decade.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, SenorGato said:

0-1 and something like 24-23

It’s hard to gauge where you stand. Do you want Kirk or are you where I am with it? Because most of your posts have suggested a mixture of both. Just curious.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

And the Skins did pay Cousins 19 million in 2016 and 23 million in 2017 (making him the 5th highest paid QB in the NFL).

Because they have literally NOTHING after Cousins and they can’t just sell that to their fan base. Their decisions scream “WE ARE ON THE FENCE ABOUT ALL THIS”.

[SenorGato]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

This^ @SenorGato you even said it yourself 

Plus we both agree that the Jets are #NotReady for a QB unless a rookie!

[The Crusher]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We have a young/cheap team. We will have about 100 million in cap space. You can give Cousins a deal that averages out to 25 million a year (give him 35 million this year) and you still have 65 million to use on OL/edge rusher/CB. Plus you still have the 6th pick (edge rusher/OL/CB), 2 2nd round picks, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and a returning Enunwa. 

We would become an instant playoff contender. 

Would I rather draft a franchise QB? Of course, but we didn't tank, we didn't end up with the 1st/2nd overall so now we would be left with the 3/4th best QB in this draft class.

Well put.  I think this is reasonable.

[bla bla bla]

5 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

For those asking if Cousins is so good, why haven’t the Redskins signed him longterm...

Who can explain how Dan Snyder’s goofy brain works?

This is the same f*ckhead who tossed a $100 million contract at an interior DL who was already known as lazy and cancerous at a time when the cap wasn’t nearly as high as it is now.

But he won’t do the same for a franchise QB who consistently produces and has never said peep to the media or acted out over still not having a longterm deal.

The Redskins are dumb. There’s your answer.

They have tried to sign him. He declined their offer with out a counter offer. We have no idea what type of contract he wants, for all we know it may be that he just wants out of Washington. Would not shock me if he took less money from Denver or the Jags to play on contenders. I'm not sure I buy him going automatically to the highest bidder.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Plus we both agree that the Jets are #NotReady for a QB unless a rookie!

I never said that. That’s why you rubbed me wrong earlier when you said that. What I said was the Jets aren’t good as some people here think but the Jets also aren’t as bad as some people here think. That has nothing to do with not being ready. I just don’t want the guy. I want to use our resources to support a younger hope.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

He sounds more like a coach thats not going to provide statements that will be used against the organization during Negotiation.  Thats something  Rex Ryan would do. 

No he made statements that might make his his QB tell the skins during negotiations that he won't play for their Dousch coach

[Untouchable]

2 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

They have tried to sign him. He declined their offer with out a counter offer. We have no idea what type of contract he wants, for all we know it may be that he just wants out of Washington. Would not shock me if he took less money from Denver or the Jags to play on contenders. I'm not sure I buy him going automatically to the highest bidder.

Sure, they tried signing him to some bullsh*t 2 year deal.

If I was Cousins, I wouldn’t have signed it either. Why do that when I can continue signing the franchise tag and get $22+ million a year, every cent of which is guaranteed?

He’s repeatedly gambled on himself and it’s repeatedly paid off. Guy definitely has plenty of balls and confidence.

When he hits the market, the Jets probably won’t be the favorites to sign him. Then again, they can offer the most money and come with the least expectations. You go to Denver or Jacksonville, it’s Super Bowl or bust.

You come here, and you’re a damn hero if you can get this team to 9-7/10-6 your first year. Anything more than that and you’re a god amongst men.

[prime21]

12 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Sure, they tried signing him to some bullsh*t 2 year deal.

If I was Cousins, I wouldn’t have signed it either. Why do that when I can continue signing the franchise tag and get $22+ million a year, every cent of which is guaranteed?

He’s repeatedly gambled on himself and it’s repeatedly paid off. Guy definitely has plenty of balls and confidence.

When he hits the market, the Jets probably won’t be the favorites to sign him. Then again, they can offer the most money and come with the least expectations. You go to Denver or Jacksonville, it’s Super Bowl or bust.

You come here, and you’re a damn hero if you can get this team to 9-7/10-6 your first year. Anything more than that and you’re a god amongst men.

Exactly.  He knows he's going to get a lot of money regardless where he goes so taking less to play in the warm weather of Jacksonville with a great running back and goodt WR's could be ideal for him.

[Patriot Killa]

32 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Sure, they tried signing him to some bullsh*t 2 year deal.

If I was Cousins, I wouldn’t have signed it either. Why do that when I can continue signing the franchise tag and get $22+ million a year, every cent of which is guaranteed?

He’s repeatedly gambled on himself and it’s repeatedly paid off. Guy definitely has plenty of balls and confidence.

When he hits the market, the Jets probably won’t be the favorites to sign him. Then again, they can offer the most money and come with the least expectations. You go to Denver or Jacksonville, it’s Super Bowl or bust.

You come here, and you’re a damn hero if you can get this team to 9-7/10-6 your first year. Anything more than that and you’re a god amongst men.

Well he went 9-7 one year..EVER.

[detectivekimble]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Stats?

The thing about the QB position and the Jets is that they do not need stats. Stats do not win you football games. Cousin’s own coach called his heart, will, fire, and it right out and said this guy cannot win you more than 7 games. That is his own coach! 

So what happens if you give him all the cap space for all eternity like he demands? He throws some meaningless TDs? Yards? Complete alot of passes at a high rate? Jets do not need that, they need a QB that knows how to WIN. 

No, he didn't.

[detectivekimble]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Agreed. I am just not willing to shell out half our cap to one player just because we have it like, that this year. Noooo way. I know everyone here just wants to see success as fast as possible but it’s not going to happen the way people want it to. People are expecting to sign him and he give us 5/6 years of 5,000 yard QB play. We need to factor in systems fits. He has never played outside of Washington. What will he look like? He has been a 8-8, 7-9 middling QB most of his career. People will say the Redskins are worse than us...yet we are the guys with 5 wins and they are the ones with 7. People will then say look at our QB play and I would counter Josh McCown threw 67% this year. We aren’t as good as we think we are and we aren’t as bad as we think we are..but we aren’t doing ourselves any favors handing him half our cap space. There are so many different routes that can lead us out of this mess. I understand a lot of guys are scared we can’t develop a QB and that’s why they want to see an “established” guy. But how “established” is 8-8 2016 record and a 7-9 2017 record. He threw two picks to a broken Giants D with an interim coach running the show. We will have to develop a guy as SOME point in our damned future if we EVER want to be anything more than what we are now. Do that. Take every shot possible. Take the best shot possible. Don’t be scared and try to get it the cheap way..which is ironically the super expensive way.?

What are you guys smoking?  The 2018 projected cap is close to $180 million.  

[hawk]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

When you look at the stats, Cousins is very comparable to Matt Ryan over the last 3 years.  And Cousins did not have Julio Jones to throw to, or anywhere near the level of RB play supporting him.  Now I know that most of you bashing Cousins would happily take Ryan on this team as the QB for the next 3 years.  So is it Cousins' performance on the field?  Or just that he was a low-round, nearly no-name pick that outplayed his draft position?

I would gather the Cousins bashing is ciming mostly for posters who bashed him for the last couple years, and rather admit they were wrong on him, will reach to support their agenda.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, detectivekimble said:

What are you guys smoking?  The 2018 projected cap is close to $180 million.  

I’m using a hyperbole when I say that. I don’t want us paying ANY money for cousins. There, that better?

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, hawk said:

I would gather the Cousins bashing is ciming mostly for posters who bashed him for the last couple years, and rather admit they were wrong on him, will reach to support their agenda.

Except me. I wanted him BAAD last offseason.. not really into that direction anymore. I really want a young QB and would rather spend the money on a great supporting cast to help him grow

[detectivekimble]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m using a hyperbole when I say that. I don’t want us paying ANY money for cousins. There, that better?

I'll bet you that Baker Mayfield never becomes as good as Kirk Cousins.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, detectivekimble said:

I'll bet you that Baker Mayfield never becomes as good as Kirk Cousins.

That’s a little stupid to bet. 

[detectivekimble]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

That’s a little stupid to bet. 

Those tiny hands are his first problem.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Those tiny hands are his first problem.

Kirks winning percentage is his first problem.??‍♂️

[detectivekimble]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

Kirks winning percentage is his first problem.??‍♂️

Hopefully the Jets pass on Johnny . . . I mean Baker Mayfield.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, detectivekimble said:

Hopefully the Jets pass on Johnny . . . I mean Baker Mayfield.

Hopefully the Jets pass on Kirk Cousins . . . I mean ....yeah Kirk Cousins.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Hopefully the Jets pass on Johnny . . . I mean Baker Mayfield.

Btw if you wholesomly agree with the notion Baker is even slightly comparable to Manziel. You show me exactly what you know about QB evaluation.

[detectivekimble]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

Hopefully the Jets pass on Kirk Cousins . . . I mean ....yeah Kirk Cousins.

Mayfield won't be as good as Kirk Cousins.  

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, detectivekimble said:

Mayfield won't be as good as Kirk Cousins.  

Yeah, you just said that.

[SenorGato]

12 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeah, you just said that.

That’s not some crazy proclamation. As you saw last night Mayfield, like Cousins, does not have the it factor required to win on the Big Stage. They are both stage 5 Compilers, Cousins doing his in the NFL while Mayfield in college. Both are born losers - proved it back to back Sunday and Monday.

Knowing beforehand that neither will ever win anything, what is so crazy about thinking Cousins outcompiles Mayfield? 

[bla bla bla]

18 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

I'll bet you that Baker Mayfield never becomes as good as Kirk Cousins.

This is the biggest thing for me for why Kirk should be #1 option and if we miss then we turn our attention to the draft. The chances that any of these QBs play to Kirks level the past 3 years is not very high. This is coming from someone who loves Baker Mayfield, I'm just playing the odds game. Kirk has proven to stay consistent in the NFL regardless of talent around him eroding, using wins or losses as a way to justify 1 player on a team of 53 seems a little ridiculous. His situation in one that the NFL has never really seen, most teams don't lose franchise QBs but the Redskins put themselves in a very awkward situation. I'm just happy we'll have multiple options this offseason to solve our QB problem, it's not a position we've been in for quite some time.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, SenorGato said:

That’s not some crazy proclamation. As you saw last night Mayfield, like Cousins, does not have the it factor required to win on the big stage. They are both Stage 5 Compilers, Cousins doing his in the NFL while Mayfield in college. 

Mayfield has yet to play a snap in the NFL yet and he will start most likely right away while Kirk had 2 -3 years to sit. I’m not making stupid bets when one of the players involved in the bet hasn’t played pro ball yet. But I do believe in his ability to play pro ball and not only just play pro ball but the ability to play it better than Cousins. That’s my stance. Not saying it’s a crazy proclamation. I just rather take a shot on a younger option. I wouldn’t even b mad if we took Cousins but in my mind I’m more hopeful for Rosen or Baker so we can have them longer.

[Pac]

That article reads like Gruden knows they screwed the pooch and are likely going to lose him in FA.

He's trying to prep the fan base for the inevitable. 

Get it done Macc!  Start filming those 1 minute videos where celebrities urge a player to come join the club.  Adam Sandler, Larry David, George RR Martin, Kevin James, Mike Greenburg..  get them all to tell Kirk to come to NY.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

This is the biggest thing for me for why Kirk should be #1 option and if we miss then we turn our attention to the draft. The chances that any of these QBs play to Kirks level the past 3 years is not very high. This is coming from someone who loves Baker Mayfield, I'm just playing the odds game. Kirk has proven to stay consistent in the NFL regardless of talent around him eroding, using wins or losses as a way to justify 1 player on a team of 53 seems a little ridiculous. His situation in one that the NFL has never really seen, most teams don't lose franchise QBs but the Redskins put themselves in a very awkward situation. I'm just happy we'll have multiple options this offseason to solve our QB problem, it's not a position we've been in for quite some time.

This I can stand behind...but as I said..I’m all in for playing the odds game. 

[ChuckkieB]

My preference is to draft a QB over signing Cousins or any other vet QB for that matter.  Realistically, signing Cousins will get 3-4 good years out of him parallel to the time the Jets are building up the team for long term success.  Will the Jets be competitive enough during those 3 or so years to make his massive contract worth it?  Not sure.  I'd much rather draft a QB and build the up and coming team around him. 

[bla bla bla]

I wonder if Kirk will go to the highest offer, the best current team, or will he let teams know what his number is and then say "build a team to fit this number under your cap and I'll make my decision" or will other FAs wait to sign until he falls into place. Either way Jensen should absolutely be our top target. He's one player I have no issues with over paying, gotta protect whoever our QB investment is.