2018 Mets thread

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I just don't see the upside to this deal at all.  Salary relief only helps the Wilpons; it doesn't automatically mean Thor and deGrom will be here long-term.  Cano is 36.  So it just comes down to Diaz.  And bullpen only matters if you're a contender.

There's so many things that need to go right to make this deal even close to acceptable.  And like 8,000 things that can wrong to make it an awful trade. 

Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss.  (Maybe worse)

This is really it. I can't believe we're giving credit to the Mets for trading away one of their top prospects for essentially salary relief.

[Philc1]

Good move by the Mets.  I think they make the playoffs next year 

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This is really it. I can't believe we're giving credit to the Mets for trading away one of their top prospects for essentially salary relief.

What this tells you is that the mets are going to "go for it" now. Otherwise, this does not make sense. So, that means they should not be done, and everything has to be judges on the basis of the totality of the offseason.

When I first heard the deal. I was in shock. Cano? For what and whom? Why do that. I really don't follow the AL much, and thought Cano had dropped off precipitously from his Yankee days. as I looked at his numbers, that is not the case, He actually has played very, very well. Ruthian, based Met 2nd base recently.

I think if he can for years 1 and 2, give the Mets a .290 average with 20 HRs and 80 RBI, it can be a good deal. The clincher is then, what does he do in years 3-5 (ages 38-40). If he can age like Jeff Kent did, and give those numbers, then they may have made a heck of a deal. His swing is not that long, and if he can keep his legs healthy, he would seem to have a shot to do that.

Diaz is a top 3 9(maybe best) reliever in the game. The need to build the bp around him now.

Again, I will judge this offseason in its totality. If they give us nothing else, it is a head scratcher.

I am willing to have this "go for it' mentality, after watching Alderson be ultra conservative and wait and wait and plod. To not have Brice and Swarzak, is a plus also.

Important to note that the Mets have -0- (ZERO) dollars committed to the roster after 2020 (accept for the Cano money just added.

 

[faba]

I am going to wait to see what other moves we make before passing judgement. If we can get elite closer for 600000 a year this year that is pretty shrewd money wise though

[Jetsfan80]

On 12/8/2018 at 2:33 PM, faba said:

I am going to wait to see what other moves we make before passing judgement. If we can get elite closer for 600000 a year this year that is pretty shrewd money wise though 

I don't care much about the salary relief UNLESS the Wilpon's pony up to keep our pitchers.  I'm not interested in them pocketing money just to start from scratch once Thor and deGrom his free agency.  We might as well trade Diaz at that point if that's the case.

IF we do that, and that's a big if, this deal looks a ton better.  But until that happens, its pretty useless.  How likely do you think that is that we keep both deGrom and Thor longterm? 

I know deGrom will be 33 by the time he hits free agency, but all that means is we'll need to make a decision on him well before that.  We also need to make that decision on Thor by about 2021. 

[Scott Dierking]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't care much about the salary relief UNLESS the Wilpon's pony up to keep our pitchers.  I'm not interested in them pocketing money just to start from scratch once Thor and deGrom his free agency.  We might as well trade Diaz at that point if that's the case.

IF we do that, and that's a big if, this deal looks a ton better.  But until that happens, its pretty useless.  How likely do you think that is that we keep both deGrom and Thor longterm? 

I know deGrom will be 33 by the time he hits free agency, but all that means is we'll need to make a decision on him well before that.  We also need to make that decision on Thor by about 2021. 

I seriously doubt that they keep BOTH deGrom AND Thor long-term. 

The way things seem to be progressing is signing DeGrom (if they can) this off season (I hope no longer than 5 years- PLEASE).

If they get bowled over by a trade for Thor this offseason, consider it, but they always have time to do that down the road.

All things considered, I consider deGrom more of a "pitcher" than Thor, and there is far less wear and tear (he was a shortstop into college), and there is less torque.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[RutgersJetFan]

Trading for Realmuto is dumb. The market is flush with catchers this year. There's no need to use extra resources to get a quality guy. The only reason is because they would still get him for 2 years on the cheap and come on already with that sh*t.

[T0mShane]

I’m not sure about any of these moves, but it’s shameful how hard the FAN is dick-riding Van Wagenen already. Jesus. 

[section314]

31 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure about any of these moves, but it’s shameful how hard the FAN is dick-riding Van Wagenen already. Jesus. 

Consider the source. 90% of the idiots on the FAN think Taco Bell was spun off from AT&T back in the 80's.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’m not sure about any of these moves, but it’s shameful how hard the FAN is dick-riding Van Wagenen already. Jesus. 

All I know is this: Sending Thor to the Yankees reeks of one of those things that down the line, the Mets will get laughed at for. If you're sending him to the Bronx of all places, it better be for a package that sets the Mets up for years to come. I really can't believe this guy is willing to put him in pinstripes and everyone is cool with that.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

All I know is this: Sending Thor to the Yankees reeks of one of those things that down the line, the Mets will get laughed at for. If you're sending him to the Bronx of all places, it better be for a package that sets the Mets up for years to come. I really can't believe this guy is willing to put him in pinstripes and everyone is cool with that. 

Yeah, it's completely gross.  Even moreso when you throw Derek Jeter into the mix, who already gave away Stanton to the Yankees. 

Without even knowing the full details of the rumor, the Yankees would win this deal easily, with the Marlins and Mets getting completely laughed at.

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah, it's completely gross.  Even moreso when you throw Derek Jeter into the mix, who already gave away Stanton to the Yankees. 

Without even knowing the full details of the rumor, the Yankees would win this deal easily, with the Marlins and Mets getting completely laughed at.

As a Sox fan, please tell the Mets to knock it off. 

[RutgersJetFan]

27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah, it's completely gross.  Even moreso when you throw Derek Jeter into the mix, who already gave away Stanton to the Yankees. 

Without even knowing the full details of the rumor, the Yankees would win this deal easily, with the Marlins and Mets getting completely laughed at.

Not to mention that you can buy a catcher this year. The market is flush. It's a buyer's market and we're trading the biggest phenom the Mets have had since Doc Gooden for something you can go out and get in free agency.

[Scott Dierking]

19 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Not to mention that you can buy a catcher this year. The market is flush. It's a buyer's market and we're trading the biggest phenom the Mets have had since Doc Gooden for something you can go out and get in free agency.

You know when it is difficult watching Thor?

-When there are runners on base. Teams steal at will on him. His rhythm gets affected, and he just is all off pace and slogs through an inning. Once someone gets on, he is a different pitcher.

-When he is at 100 pitches in the 5th inning. Which happens a lot. He has still not registered a true out pitch. His fastball, while hard, is straight as an arrow. It does not have that late life. The slider seems to come and go. He has trouble putting batters away.

To compare him to Gooden is not even close. 

Is Thor a very good pitcher? Yes. But I worry how he will age. I would not do a straight up for Realmuto for him, they would need to bring something else back in return. But I would not cry if he leaves, if the haul back is decent.

 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

You know when it is difficult watching Thor?

-When there are runners on base. Teams steal at will on him. His rhythm gets affected, and he just is all off pace and slogs through an inning. Once someone gets on, he is a different pitcher.

-When he is at 100 pitches in the 5th inning. Which happens a lot. He has still not registered a true out pitch. His fastball, while hard, is straight as an arrow. It does not have that late life. The slider seems to come and go. He has trouble putting batters away.

To compare him to Gooden is not even close. 

Is Thor a very good pitcher? Yes. But I worry how he will age. I would not do a straight up for Realmuto for him, they would need to bring something else back in return. But I would not cry if he leaves, if the haul back is decent.

 

 

Yes yes, we know. Everything the Mets do is good.

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Yes yes, we know. Everything the Mets do is good.

The Mets have done nothing here. I am commenting on Thor, and my feeling about him as a pitcher.

[Jetsfan80]

You know when it is difficult watching Thor? -When there are runners on base. Teams steal at will on him. His rhythm gets affected, and he just is all off pace and slogs through an inning. Once someone gets on, he is a different pitcher.

-When he is at 100 pitches in the 5th inning. Which happens a lot. He has still not registered a true out pitch. His fastball, while hard, is straight as an arrow. It does not have that late life. The slider seems to come and go. He has trouble putting batters away.

To compare him to Gooden is not even close. 

Is Thor a very good pitcher? Yes. But I worry how he will age. I would not do a straight up for Realmuto for him, they would need to bring something else back in return. But I would not cry if he leaves, if the haul back is decent.

 

 

 

The Mets have done nothing here. I am commenting on Thor, and my feeling about him as a pitcher.

 

At least a couple of those takes on Thor are not reasonable critiques.

 

The base runner deal I can’t speak on since I don’t get to watch enough Mets games here in NC. But you’re seriously complaining that his 100 mph fastball is “too straight”? That’s simple physics dude. You throw a ball that hard (which very few on the planet can do like he does with such consistency), there’s not going to be movement.

 

And would you rather him throw 7 innings every start, which he was doing a lot in the past, and flame out quicker? The game’s emphasis is on bullpens now. Asking starters to go 7 or even 6 consistently is how flamethrowers flame out in their primes.

 

[Scott Dierking]

44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

At least a couple of those takes on Thor are not reasonable critiques.

 

The base runner deal I can’t speak on since I don’t get to watch enough Mets games here in NC. But you’re seriously complaining that his 100 mph fastball is “too straight”? That’s simple physics dude. You throw a ball that hard (which very few on the planet can do like he does with such consistency), there’s not going to be movement.

 

And would you rather him throw 7 innings every start, which he was doing a lot in the past, and flame out quicker? The game’s emphasis is on bullpens now. Asking starters to go 7 or even 6 consistently is how flamethrowers flame out in their primes.

 

Some fair points you have made. I actually went to his advanced stats and his barrel % and hard hit % was in the top 1% of the league for 2018. That belies what I said.

In terms of what you say about a fastball being straight the harder you throw is absolutely true. That is why it is not necessary to throw full bore, all the time as Noah seems to want to do. Take some off and movement will come, which will lead to more swings and misses. 

Noah is absolutely a different pitcher with runners on base, he does a poor job holding them. He has one of the slowest deliveries to the plate. In part, because of his high leg kick. Base runners run wild on him. The Phillies had 5 in one game against him last August.

Teams would rather pitchers achieve their 100 pitches in as many innings as possible, so they don't have to go to the bullpen and save arms. Syndergaard piles up pitches quickly.

Admittedly, I am judging on a harsh curve here. The kid is still only 26. I am judging him on an "ace" standard, which he should be compared too. It is also not fair because he has to measure against deGrom.

Noah had a GREAT September. That helped his numbers a lot Many of those starts were off 5 days rest, rather than the normal 4. He won't have that luxury as often.

Would I be heartbroken if Thor stays on the Mets? No. But the reality is the Mets will not pay both Syndergaard and deGrom. It just does not make great monetary sense. It appears that they want to pay Jake. Whicjh ultimately means they should try to harvest a bonanza for Thor at some point. That does not have to be this offseason. But I understand at least throwing his name out there.

 

 

 

[Anthony Jet]

On 12/11/2018 at 4:46 PM, Scott Dierking said:

You know when it is difficult watching Thor?

-When there are runners on base. Teams steal at will on him. His rhythm gets affected, and he just is all off pace and slogs through an inning. Once someone gets on, he is a different pitcher.

-When he is at 100 pitches in the 5th inning. Which happens a lot. He has still not registered a true out pitch. His fastball, while hard, is straight as an arrow. It does not have that late life. The slider seems to come and go. He has trouble putting batters away.

To compare him to Gooden is not even close. 

Is Thor a very good pitcher? Yes. But I worry how he will age. I would not do a straight up for Realmuto for him, they would need to bring something else back in return. But I would not cry if he leaves, if the haul back is decent.

 

 

I agree with all of this and still wouldn’t trade Noah  

It’s crazy, the stars are aligned, our SP is in there prime, we got one of the best closers in the game, some good young positions players and there is a superstar about to enter his prime on the market for nothing but money, a lot of money, but just money, not to mention all the usual teams that end up with these kinda of guys don’t have a natural fit or need for him. Bryce Harper is there for the taking. Let’s see BVW smooth talk the Wilpons to letting him play just the tip game on the first date. 

Im not a huge Harper fan but the logic behind this move and how everything playing out just makes to much sense. We don’t have long term money committed to anyone besides Cano. We have a 2 year window with the pitching before it gets expensive. Probably 2 solid years of Cano. It just makes to much sense. 

Harper  

defensive catcher on the cheap ( can’t think of his name right now)

one more bullpen arm and call it an offseason

bring in some BP arms on try out for ST and see if lightning strikes 

[Anthony Jet]

Only two things left 

sign Harper 

sign maldonado

[JetsMetsDevilsPA]

Mets sign Familia 3yrs/30mil.  Guess I'd better buy a CPAP machine to make sure Im still breathing when he comes in the game.  Jesus...

[Lith]

12 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

one more bullpen arm and call it an offseason

Here is your bullpen arm.  Still think we need a lefty, but I like bringing him back -- especially not as a closer.

 

[faba]

Well get ready for more nail biting innings from Familia. Hopefully in 7 and 8th inning he will work

[faba]

IMO opinion Noiah will not be traded but lets remember do not compare him to Doc please

[JustInFudge]

Familia as the set up guy for Diaz?  

I dont hate it, I dont hate it.

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Only two things left 

sign Harper 

sign maldonado

 

No no no no to Bryce Harper.  Most overrated player in baseball.  And do you really think the Wilpons are willing to spend that kind of money anyways?

[Anthony Jet]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

No no no no to Bryce Harper.  Most overrated player in baseball.  And do you really think the Wilpons are willing to spend that kind of money anyways?

I agree. Def overrated. But the way things are falling into place right now. I sign him big money with an opt out after year 3. 2-3 years is what we have with this pitching staff. He will most likely opt out. Slide Nimmo to CF. Harper in RF Conforto LF. If Cespedes comes back. Rotate Nimmo and Conforto.  

Sign maldanado to slow down the run game 

[Philc1]

Mets are making the playoffs next year

[Lith]

I could get on board with this.  Sign Grandal and stop the nonsense about trading young talent for Realmuto.

[RutgersJetFan]

11 minutes ago, Lith said:

I could get on board with this.  Sign Grandal and stop the nonsense about trading young talent for Realmuto.

I'd be ecstatic about this. Weakening the franchise to get Realmuto, in my opinion, is so goddamn dumb. He's a great player but not the type of guy you bet the team on. Pay Grandal and call it a win.

[Anthony Jet]

Def don’t want to trade what is needed for Realmuto. 

Not saying it will end up the same but I’m a little gun shy with catchers after watching Lucroy fall off a cliff 

Grandal works for me 

[Anthony Jet]

Did the Mets ever do anything with the international slot money the received for familia when they traded him?

[Anthony Jet]

Mets sign Wilson Ramos 2 years 

[faba]

Good move do not deplete roster or farm system and get a legit catcher that can actually hit Ramos

[Jetsfan80]

Agreed.  Solid signing there.  Giving up a king's ransom for a Catcher was pointless.  Ramos has been solid.  Though he is, of course, an injury risk.