The Mount. Rushmore of Jets Worst Mistakes

[Jet Nut]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

3 and only 3 -

1) Marino
2) Manning
3) Bellichick

Funny that Parcells was at fault for 2 of the 3 biggest blunders in franchise history.




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No he wasn't, Belichick wasn't anyone's fault. Other than he got more power and I'll assume Mont to go to NE. Manning?  What was supposed to do, lie to his friend that he would never trade the pick no matter the offer?  I get what he became but it wasn't as cut and dried then as it is today looking back.  Imagine if Parcels passed up a trade for a boatload of picks for Manning and he didn't work out?  Back up on Mt. Rushmore, lol.  Plus, BP was brought in to win NOW.  He knew the deal, Hess was dying and the clock was ticking.

I wanted Marino, was at the draft at the Sheridan Hotel.  As much as it's a thorn in the side it amazes me to this day that we're the only fans who cry to this day.  For not taking a QB with drug accusations floating around him and a drop in production his senior season.  30 teams passed on Marino, not just the Jets.  No one can say why us like Jets fans.  But hey, best QB I've ever seen on a regular basis but a few fans have told us last week how overrated Marino was

[FidelioJet]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

No he wasn't, Belichick wasn't anyone's fault. Other than he got more power and I'll assume Mont to go to NE. Manning?  What was supposed to do, lie to his friend that he would never trade the pick no matter the offer?  I get what he became but it wasn't as cut and dried then as it is today looking back.  Imagine if Parcels passed up a trade for a boatload of picks for Manning and he didn't work out?  Back up on Mt. Rushmore, lol.  Plus, BP was brought in to win NOW.  He knew the deal, Hess was dying and the clock was ticking.

I wanted Marino, was at the draft at the Sheridan Hotel.  As much as it's a thorn in the side it amazes me to this day that we're the only fans who cry to this day.  For not taking a QB with drug accusations floating around him and a drop in production his senior season.  30 teams passed on Marino, not just the Jets.  No one can say why us like Jets fans.  But hey, best QB I've ever seen on a regular basis but a few fans have told us last week how overrated Marino was

I'm not sure of your point here...You're looking to make excuses as to why these things happened - in hindsight they were in fact mistakes.  Had these decision gone the other way - the Jets would be a very different franchise.

1) Had Parcells told his friend he would definitely take Manning with the first pick - the Jets would have had a Peyton Manning (that's a mistake - you can make excuses as to why - but a mistake nonetheless)

2) The Jets had Bellichick under contract and prepared to give him full control of the team - they went back on that initial promise.  BB left and went on to coach the Patriots (that's a mistake - you can make any excuses as to why - but a mistake nonetheless)

3) Marino - everyone Jet fan at the Sheridan that day knew the Jets should be taking Marino - it wasn't some out there decision to pass on him.  Taking Ken O'brien?   but even putting that aside.  Had the Jets that day done what virtually everyone else knew they should do Marino would have been a Jet, instead he went to the Dolphins (that's a mistake - you can make excuses as to why - but a mistake nonetheless)

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I'm not sure of your point here...You're looking to make excuses as to why these things happened - in hindsight they were in fact mistakes.  Had these decision gone the other way - the Jets would be a very different franchise.

1) Had Parcells told his friend he would definitely take Manning with the first pick - the Jets would have had a Peyton Manning (that's a mistake - you can make excuses as to why - but a mistake nonetheless)

2) The Jets had Bellichick under contract and prepared to give him full control of the team - they went back on that initial promise.  BB left and went on to coach the Patriots (that's a mistake - you can make any excuses as to why - but a mistake nonetheless)

3) Marino - everyone Jet fan at the Sheridan that day knew the Jets should be taking Marino - it wasn't some out there decision to pass on him.  Taking Ken O'brien?   but even putting that aside.  Had the Jets that day done what virtually everyone else knew they should do Marino would have been a Jet, instead he went to the Dolphins (that's a mistake - you can make excuses as to why - but a mistake nonetheless)

Who said they weren't mistakes.  Every draft has mistakes.  No point other than to look at the circumstances.  What does that have to do with we're the only ones crying over the O'Brien/Marino pick?  At least we didn't take Blackledge or Eason. Again no one says that ultimately he shouldn't have been a jet.  But again 30 teams passed on Marino.  Never heard a Lions, Bears, Rams etc fan cry like we do.  Actually he should have went 1st, I wouldn't trade Marino for Elway or Kelly. 

Manning was bad timing, a HOF HC hired to win now at all costs.  You think that's making an excuse fine, it's just the way it was.  Sucks, but understandable given the circumstances.  

Jets were never giving Belichick full control of anything.  Guttman was president of the team, they were putting a GM in place.  He was viewed as a lousy HC who had issues with the press.  Now we're making things up.  As I said earlier, can remember people hating the Parcels hire because we were eventually giving the job to  Belichick, who was hated everywhere and not looked at like he is post Brady.  

 

[nyjunc]

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

WTF reason did he need Parcells to go?  Belichick was the HC, do you not get this?  Parcells was in the building, so what?  If BP became the GM, consultant or president of the team, so what.  Belichick would still be the HC.  

Got to love that you assume we would have had a dynasty had Belichick not left for the Pats and that it was Parcells fault.  Were we getting Brady too? Because without Brady Belichick might not have lasted that season. 

Stop telling us that woody didn't turn Parcells offer down, because he did.  Report d everywhere at the time.  When did Woody try to get Parcells back the following year?  

 

 

 

 

 

BB did not want BP around.

Despite it affecting his future as much as BPs, BP did not tell BB if he was coming back or not even though he knew he wasn't coming back.

BB wanted to shop for the groceries too just like BP did. 

I assume we become a dynasty b/c I also assume BB has the same staff in place that selected Brady.  If they don't select Bardy than BB is out of a job w/in 3 years like he would have been in nE had Brady not become the starter and rescued his career and that franchise.

Show me any sort of proof that Woody turned down BP's offer? It was reported everywhere at the time how badly Woody wanted BP to coach and then after Groh quit Woody AGAIN wanted ted him to coach but BP had no interest again.

16 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Wow... you didnt even state your opinion like it was hard fact.  You're improving.

Pipe down giant fan pretending to be a Jet fan

[Jet Nut]

33 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

BB did not want BP around.

Despite it affecting his future as much as BPs, BP did not tell BB if he was coming back or not even though he knew he wasn't coming back.

BB wanted to shop for the groceries too just like BP did. 

I assume we become a dynasty b/c I also assume BB has the same staff in place that selected Brady.  If they don't select Bardy than BB is out of a job w/in 3 years like he would have been in nE had Brady not become the starter and rescued his career and that franchise.

Show me any sort of proof that Woody turned down BP's offer? It was reported everywhere at the time how badly Woody wanted BP to coach and then after Groh quit Woody AGAIN wanted ted him to coach but BP had no interest again.

Pipe down giant fan pretending to be a Jet fan

One more time, BB was a failure as a HC in Cleveland, was in no position to tell Woody, BP and Guttman that he wanted BP out of the way.  He then stole all of BPs staff, that's who selected TB.  Proof that Woody turned down BP offer?  BP never worked for the Jets after that time.  There's you're proof.  If he accepted would have been a different story.  You have most of the story right just not all of it.  You want to continue, find proof that any of this is wrong, it's how it happened, it's how BB was thought of.  It's how much of a POS Kraft and the pats were

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Pipe down giant fan pretending to be a Jet fan

Actually I am rooting for the Buffalo Bills!!!   Go Bills!!

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

One more time, BB was a failure as a HC in Cleveland, was in no position to tell Woody, BP and Guttman that he wanted BP out of the way.  He then stole all of BPs staff, that's who selected TB.  Proof that Woody turned down BP offer?  BP never worked for the Jets after that time.  There's you're proof.  If he accepted would have been a different story.  You have most of the story right just not all of it.  You want to continue, find proof that any of this is wrong, it's how it happened, it's how BB was thought of.  It's how much of a POS Kraft and the pats were

 

[SouthernJet]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

One more time, BB was a failure as a HC in Cleveland, was in no position to tell Woody, BP and Guttman that he wanted BP out of the way.  He then stole all of BPs staff, that's who selected TB.  Proof that Woody turned down BP offer?  BP never worked for the Jets after that time.  There's you're proof.  If he accepted would have been a different story.  You have most of the story right just not all of it.  You want to continue, find proof that any of this is wrong, it's how it happened, it's how BB was thought of.  It's how much of a POS Kraft and the pats were

was he a Browns failure?

New coach, WORST and CHEAPEST owner in NFL at time, not willing to pay anywhere near Cap for players. For all we know Belly got the most of that squad that he could. Not everyone in 'the know' back then thought he should be fired.

I dont know enuf about it, but I know working for Art Moddell and Mike Brown is not easy as far as getting top FA talent and also using cap to accumulate depth (helps w/injuries and STs you know)

[Billyg]

On 1/3/2018 at 3:00 PM, UnitedWhofans said:

That's a subjective call though. I've seen worse not called.

It has to be the fake spike. Sent the Jets into the depths for 2 years

the fake spike is overrated.  they would have scored anyway.  

[nyjunc]

7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

One more time, BB was a failure as a HC in Cleveland, was in no position to tell Woody, BP and Guttman that he wanted BP out of the way.  He then stole all of BPs staff, that's who selected TB.  Proof that Woody turned down BP offer?  BP never worked for the Jets after that time.  There's you're proof.  If he accepted would have been a different story.  You have most of the story right just not all of it.  You want to continue, find proof that any of this is wrong, it's how it happened, it's how BB was thought of.  It's how much of a POS Kraft and the pats were

One more time, Woody wasn't our owner when BB walked out on us.  He was a failure in Cle(and in NE w/o Brady) but that doesn't mean he didn't have leverage. You have leverage when someone else wants you too and that someone else was Bob Kraft so clearly he was in position to tell walk out.

What does it tell you that so much of BP's staff decided to go to NE w/ BB rather than stay in NY?

I have all of the story right.  BP refused to let BB know he was stepping down even though he knew he was.  This angered BB who worked out a deal w/ Kraft(who was still angry at BP and this was a way he could get back at BP).  All BP had to do was tell BB the truth and he stays here, has the same staff in place and chances are we get Brady and it's our dynasty. 

we can call Kraft and the Pats a POS but we did even worse to them w/ the BP hiring then the poison pill in the Curtis contract.  Kraft, being the bst owner in the league, just got revenge and it resulted in a dynasty.

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Actually I am rooting for the Buffalo Bills!!!   Go Bills!!

why do you waste your time here? you are clearly not a Jet fan.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

 

this is why I don't argue w/ you, I just try to educate on the topics we discuss but you refuse to accept and keep looking silly.

4 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

was he a Browns failure?

New coach, WORST and CHEAPEST owner in NFL at time, not willing to pay anywhere near Cap for players. For all we know Belly got the most of that squad that he could. Not everyone in 'the know' back then thought he should be fired.

I dont know enuf about it, but I know working for Art Moddell and Mike Brown is not easy as far as getting top FA talent and also using cap to accumulate depth (helps w/injuries and STs you know)

The cap didn't come into play until 1994 I believe, BB took over in 1991 and was fired after the 1995 season.  One of the reasons they had to leave Cleveland was b/c they were in financial trouble, Art Modell had to take out a loan to pay FA WR Andre Rison after the 1994 season.

In 5 seasons in Cle(keep in mind Cle made 3 AFC championship games in the previous 5 seasons and Bernie Kosar was just 28 years old in BB's 1st year) Bill Belichick made the playoffs just ONE time as a Wild Card team in 1994.  He had just ONE playoff win, a WC win at home(today you don't get home games if you are a WC team) before being blown out in the divisional round.  He had FOUR losing seasons in 5 years in Cleveland.  He was a total and complete failure in Cleveland and was on his way to the same in NE before a certain QB was pressed into action and would change BB's career from failure to "best ever".

[southparkcpa]

17 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

this is why I don't argue w/ you, I just try to educate on the topics we discuss but you refuse to accept and keep looking silly.

The cap didn't come into play until 1994 I believe, BB took over in 1991 and was fired after the 1995 season.  One of the reasons they had to leave Cleveland was b/c they were in financial trouble, Art Modell had to take out a loan to pay FA WR Andre Rison after the 1994 season.

In 5 seasons in Cle(keep in mind Cle made 3 AFC championship games in the previous 5 seasons and Bernie Kosar was just 28 years old in BB's 1st year) Bill Belichick made the playoffs just ONE time as a Wild Card team in 1994.  He had just ONE playoff win, a WC win at home(today you don't get home games if you are a WC team) before being blown out in the divisional round.  He had FOUR losing seasons in 5 years in Cleveland.  He was a total and complete failure in Cleveland and was on his way to the same in NE before a certain QB was pressed into action and would change BB's career from failure to "best ever".

That’s nonsense.  Any objective fan, and  would add to that, 95 percent of all fans, executives and other NFL people would all say B.B. is amongst the greatest 3 HCs of all time.  I’ve never heard anyone credible dilute that except a few fans. HIs decision making over the last 17 years is tremendous as is his ability to bring in young coaches.  Brady helps but B.B is a far better coach than any we have had since and possibly including Parcells.  He learned from his mistakes in Cleveland and is fully credited with the GIants SB win shutting down the Bills no huddle offense.   As a GM he has been better than any we have had.  

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

That’s nonsense.  Any objective fan, and  would add to that, 95 percent of all fans, executives and other NFL people would all say B.B. is amongst the greatest 3 HCs of all time.  I’ve never heard anyone credible dilute that except a few fans. HIs decision making over the last 17 years is tremendous as is his ability to bring in young coaches.  Brady helps but B.B is a far better coach than any we have had since and possibly including Parcells.  He learned from his mistakes in Cleveland and is fully credited with the GIants SB win shutting down the Bills no huddle offense.   As a GM he has been better than any we have had.  

He has developed into a great coach, he wouldn't be a head coach right now if not for Tom Brady. 

He learned from his mistakes in Cleveland by going 5-11 year 1 then starting 0-2 year 2 before Brady stepped on the field as starter and they magically went 11-3 the rest of the way.

it's easy to be a GM w/ Brady, Brady made an AFC Championship Game w/ no run game, Recehe Caldwell & Jabar Gaffney as his main weapons.  No matter who is around him he wins.  Gronk gets hurt? no problem they win SB, Edelman goes down? they get a 1 seed again. BB has had the easiest job in sports since Brady took over.  W/ all that said he has developed into a great HC, one I think could be a playoff coach w/o Brady at this point BUT to those that think BB would guarantee championships they just haven't watched him w/o Brady. 

who cares what fans think? fans are swayed by the media and the media lives in the moment.  these are the same types of people calling a career mediocre QB like Eli Manning a HOFer.

Parcells made SBs w/ THREE different QBs(winning 2), he made the playoffs w/ 2 more.  BB has only made it as far as a title game w/ Brady, he has ONE playoff win in 7 years w/o him and that was w/ Vinny at QB when they made the div rd and got crushed.  Parcells made a title game w/ Vinny.

Let's look at BB's QBs:

Kosar: made 3 title games w/o him, best record w/ him? 6-10

Tomczak: 21-10 in Chi, started playoff games in 3 postseasons and won PO games in 2 of them(just like Eli!). was 4-4 as starter under BB

Vinny: led BB to only playoff app, a WC berth. won one playoff game.  Vinny made the playoffs twice w/ us including leading us to an AFC Championship Game.

Bledsoe: Reached SB w/ NE and 4 plauyoff apps.  w/ BB? 5-13 as a starter.

 

The greats that have had a chance w/ multiple QBs win no matter who is under C for the most part.  Lombardi and Walsh never had a real chance w/ other QBs but guys like Shula made a SB w/ David Woodley, Gibbs WON 3 SBs w/ 3 different QBs none of which are HOF caliber(but still were better than Eli)...

on that note, go look up his defenses w/ and w/o the greatest defensive player of all time Lawrence Taylor.  BB is a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in the history of football to have the greatest defensive player and greatest QB the majority of his career.

[nyjunc]

14 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

That’s nonsense.  Any objective fan, and  would add to that, 95 percent of all fans, executives and other NFL people would all say B.B. is amongst the greatest 3 HCs of all time.  I’ve never heard anyone credible dilute that except a few fans. HIs decision making over the last 17 years is tremendous as is his ability to bring in young coaches.  Brady helps but B.B is a far better coach than any we have had since and possibly including Parcells.  He learned from his mistakes in Cleveland and is fully credited with the GIants SB win shutting down the Bills no huddle offense.   As a GM he has been better than any we have had.  

oh and on the Giants SB XXV win, they won BEACUSE OF THE OFFENSE holding the ball for 40 mins.  Buffalo score 17 points in 19 mins of possession, they shut down nothing. theat projects to about 27 points if they had the ball for 30 mins like most teams average around.  Let's look at their season:

 

game 1: scored 26 pts in 34 minutes TOP vs. Indy

game 2: scored 7 in 20 mins at Miami

game 3: scored 30 in 31 at NYJ

game 4: scored 15 in 25 mins vs. Den

game 5: scored 24 in 21 mins vs. Oak

game 6: scored 30 in 23 mins vs. NYJ

game 7: scored 27 in 32 mins at NE

game 8: scored 35 in 35 mins at Cle

game 9: scored 45 in 38 vs. Phoenix

game 10: scored 14 in 26 vs. NE

game 11: scored 24 in 30 at Hou

game 12: scored 30 in 27 vs. Phi

game 13: scored 31 in 32 at Indy

game 14: scored 17 in 22 at NYG

game 15: scored 24 in 36 vs. Mia

game 16: rested starters

379 points in 432 mins

taking that average it would give Buffalo 17 points in 19 minutes which is exactly what they had.

 

NYG won that SB for 3 reasons:

1. they held the ball for 40 minutes

2. Hostetler not allowing Bruce Smith to get the ball on the safety, that should have been a fumble and TD but Hostetler prevented it and it only resulted in 2 pts rather than 7.

3. mark Ingram's incredible 3rd and long where he broke about 9 tackles to get the first down on one of their last scoring drives(may even have been the last).

BB's D got chewed up in the limited time they were on the field.  if Buffalo had just 30 more seconds it would have been a chip shot FG to win it.

BB gets credit for everything, when he fails to call TO vs. Sea he's a genius b/c Sea screwed up though had they scored he would have robbed Brady of any chance to come back.

 

[Hitman Harris]

Johnson & Johnson purchase of the org 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

was he a Browns failure?

New coach, WORST and CHEAPEST owner in NFL at time, not willing to pay anywhere near Cap for players. For all we know Belly got the most of that squad that he could. Not everyone in 'the know' back then thought he should be fired.

I dont know enuf about it, but I know working for Art Moddell and Mike Brown is not easy as far as getting top FA talent and also using cap to accumulate depth (helps w/injuries and STs you know)

He was a nightmare.  All involved complained about him.  All except Mike Brown, he had nothing to do with the Browns, he was with the Bengals, never the Browns.  ?

[UntouchableCrew]

On 1/3/2018 at 3:14 PM, Beerfish said:

I have not been a jet fan nearly as long as most here but one that I raged at and and almost kicked my tv in was Eric Barton roughing vs San diego letting them kick the game tieing FG.

Jets won in overtime but I was totally enraged at the stupidity of that play

Same. I've never lost my mind like that during a Jets game. Broke the remote control by throwing it at the wall, had to be convinced to turn the game back on.

[southparkcpa]

44 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He has developed into a great coach, he wouldn't be a head coach right now if not for Tom Brady. 

He learned from his mistakes in Cleveland by going 5-11 year 1 then starting 0-2 year 2 before Brady stepped on the field as starter and they magically went 11-3 the rest of the way.

it's easy to be a GM w/ Brady, Brady made an AFC Championship Game w/ no run game, Recehe Caldwell & Jabar Gaffney as his main weapons.  No matter who is around him he wins.  Gronk gets hurt? no problem they win SB, Edelman goes down? they get a 1 seed again. BB has had the easiest job in sports since Brady took over.  W/ all that said he has developed into a great HC, one I think could be a playoff coach w/o Brady at this point BUT to those that think BB would guarantee championships they just haven't watched him w/o Brady. 

who cares what fans think? fans are swayed by the media and the media lives in the moment.  these are the same types of people calling a career mediocre QB like Eli Manning a HOFer.

Parcells made SBs w/ THREE different QBs(winning 2), he made the playoffs w/ 2 more.  BB has only made it as far as a title game w/ Brady, he has ONE playoff win in 7 years w/o him and that was w/ Vinny at QB when they made the div rd and got crushed.  Parcells made a title game w/ Vinny.

Let's look at BB's QBs:

Kosar: made 3 title games w/o him, best record w/ him? 6-10

Tomczak: 21-10 in Chi, started playoff games in 3 postseasons and won PO games in 2 of them(just like Eli!). was 4-4 as starter under BB

Vinny: led BB to only playoff app, a WC berth. won one playoff game.  Vinny made the playoffs twice w/ us including leading us to an AFC Championship Game.

Bledsoe: Reached SB w/ NE and 4 plauyoff apps.  w/ BB? 5-13 as a starter.

 

The greats that have had a chance w/ multiple QBs win no matter who is under C for the most part.  Lombardi and Walsh never had a real chance w/ other QBs but guys like Shula made a SB w/ David Woodley, Gibbs WON 3 SBs w/ 3 different QBs none of which are HOF caliber(but still were better than Eli)...

on that note, go look up his defenses w/ and w/o the greatest defensive player of all time Lawrence Taylor.  BB is a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in the history of football to have the greatest defensive player and greatest QB the majority of his career.

More opinion stated like you wrote fact.....  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

One more time, Woody wasn't our owner when BB walked out on us.  He was a failure in Cle(and in NE w/o Brady) but that doesn't mean he didn't have leverage. You have leverage when someone else wants you too and that someone else was Bob Kraft so clearly he was in position to tell walk out.

What does it tell you that so much of BP's staff decided to go to NE w/ BB rather than stay in NY?

I have all of the story right.  BP refused to let BB know he was stepping down even though he knew he was.  This angered BB who worked out a deal w/ Kraft(who was still angry at BP and this was a way he could get back at BP).  All BP had to do was tell BB the truth and he stays here, has the same staff in place and chances are we get Brady and it's our dynasty. 

we can call Kraft and the Pats a POS but we did even worse to them w/ the BP hiring then the poison pill in the Curtis contract.  Kraft, being the bst owner in the league, just got revenge and it resulted in a dynasty.

why do you waste your time here? you are clearly not a Jet fan.

Woody bought the team, officially, Jan of 2000.  Same month and year BB quit.  He quit knowing who his boss was.  He had no leverage, youre completely wrong.   You have no idea what you're talking about but once again pat yourself on the back for your vast knowledge and tell us you're right.  BB was under contract all through his Jets employment with the included clause that as soon as BP retired he would become the HC.  It was done and signed years earlier.  but There was no negotiating, no need to use imagined leverage.  It's the deal he signed when no one wanted anything to do with him as a HC.  He signed it, he was paid well for it, accepted it along with a 7 figure bonus for being the good soldier and waiting his turn.  BP retired and he negotiated illegally with Kraft and the Pats.  What leverage you dream up is all in your head, as is the idea that you know what happened.

[Kleckineau]

Junc science. The hallmark of all things Jets.

 

[SouthernJet]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

He has developed into a great coach, he wouldn't be a head coach right now if not for Tom Brady. 

He learned from his mistakes in Cleveland by going 5-11 year 1 then starting 0-2 year 2 before Brady stepped on the field as starter and they magically went 11-3 the rest of the way.

it's easy to be a GM w/ Brady, Brady made an AFC Championship Game w/ no run game, Recehe Caldwell & Jabar Gaffney as his main weapons.  No matter who is around him he wins.  Gronk gets hurt? no problem they win SB, Edelman goes down? they get a 1 seed again. BB has had the easiest job in sports since Brady took over.  W/ all that said he has developed into a great HC, one I think could be a playoff coach w/o Brady at this point BUT to those that think BB would guarantee championships they just haven't watched him w/o Brady. 

who cares what fans think? fans are swayed by the media and the media lives in the moment.  these are the same types of people calling a career mediocre QB like Eli Manning a HOFer.

Parcells made SBs w/ THREE different QBs(winning 2), he made the playoffs w/ 2 more.  BB has only made it as far as a title game w/ Brady, he has ONE playoff win in 7 years w/o him and that was w/ Vinny at QB when they made the div rd and got crushed.  Parcells made a title game w/ Vinny.

Let's look at BB's QBs:

Kosar: made 3 title games w/o him, best record w/ him? 6-10

Tomczak: 21-10 in Chi, started playoff games in 3 postseasons and won PO games in 2 of them(just like Eli!). was 4-4 as starter under BB

Vinny: led BB to only playoff app, a WC berth. won one playoff game.  Vinny made the playoffs twice w/ us including leading us to an AFC Championship Game.

Bledsoe: Reached SB w/ NE and 4 plauyoff apps.  w/ BB? 5-13 as a starter.

 

The greats that have had a chance w/ multiple QBs win no matter who is under C for the most part.  Lombardi and Walsh never had a real chance w/ other QBs but guys like Shula made a SB w/ David Woodley, Gibbs WON 3 SBs w/ 3 different QBs none of which are HOF caliber(but still were better than Eli)...

on that note, go look up his defenses w/ and w/o the greatest defensive player of all time Lawrence Taylor.  BB is a great coach but he's been the luckiest coach in the history of football to have the greatest defensive player and greatest QB the majority of his career.

Coach ranking is tuf I agree. So many things factor in. I liken it to Archie Mmannings career. He goes almost anywhere else and.......................

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

More opinion stated like you wrote fact.....  

that is a great counter to what I wrote.  you are really good at this.

57 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Woody bought the team, officially, Jan of 2000.  Same month and year BB quit.  He quit knowing who his boss was.  He had no leverage, youre completely wrong.   You have no idea what you're talking about but once again pat yourself on the back for your vast knowledge and tell us you're right.  BB was under contract all through his Jets employment with the included clause that as soon as BP retired he would become the HC.  It was done and signed years earlier.  but There was no negotiating, no need to use imagined leverage.  It's the deal he signed when no one wanted anything to do with him as a HC.  He signed it, he was paid well for it, accepted it along with a 7 figure bonus for being the good soldier and waiting his turn.  BP retired and he negotiated illegally with Kraft and the Pats.  What leverage you dream up is all in your head, as is the idea that you know what happened.

Bill Belichick resigned as the HC of NYJ on January 4, 2000.  Woody Johnson was named the new owner of the Jets on January 11, 2000. 

you can keep telling me I don't know what I am talking about but I obviously do despite your ramblings.

I understand about BB's contract but contracts are made to be broken(just ask Parcells).  BB signed that deal in 1997, it was now 2000.  things change.  He didn't want BP around and he wanted assurances BP was stepping down.  He didn't get it just as Peyton Manning didn't get assurances that we would take him #1 overall or he would have been a Jet in 1997. BP is an all time great HC but he was awful at being a GM/head of a franchise type.

47 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

Coach ranking is tuf I agree. So many things factor in. I liken it to Archie Mmannings career. He goes almost anywhere else and.......................

The thing w/ BB is we have 7 seasons of him without Tom Brady.  7 seasons is a long time, in those 7 seasons he made the playoffs one time, one playoff game and never even reached a conf title game.  He also had 5 losing seasons in those 7 years and has an overall record below .500 w/o Brady both overall and in NE.

[Jet Nut]

45 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

that is a great counter to what I wrote.  you are really good at this.

Bill Belichick resigned as the HC of NYJ on January 4, 2000.  Woody Johnson was named the new owner of the Jets on January 11, 2000. 

you can keep telling me I don't know what I am talking about but I obviously do despite your ramblings.

I understand about BB's contract but contracts are made to be broken(just ask Parcells).  BB signed that deal in 1997, it was now 2000.  things change.  He didn't want BP around and he wanted assurances BP was stepping down.  He didn't get it just as Peyton Manning didn't get assurances that we would take him #1 overall or he would have been a Jet in 1997. BP is an all time great HC but he was awful at being a GM/head of a franchise type.

The thing w/ BB is we have 7 seasons of him without Tom Brady.  7 seasons is a long time, in those 7 seasons he made the playoffs one time, one playoff game and never even reached a conf title game.  He also had 5 losing seasons in those 7 years and has an overall record below .500 w/o Brady both overall and in NE.

You truly are a moron if you think on 1/4/2000 no one knew who the owner of the Jets was.  Or that it made a difference. And a huge dick stroker if you think that it makes you right.  Somehow.  

Stop telling me how good hes been, we know.  Doesn't make you smart.  Doesn't make BB a HC in demand in 2000 with leverage.  Negotiating a contact.  Because he was already under contract.  His contact was bought along with the team when Woody bought the Jets.  Youre not right.  Go away already, WTF is the matter with you that you can't stop, no matter the subject?  

I would have guessed that a Pats fan like you would know

[Fantasy Island]

Kotite, Mangina, Rex, Bowles,Idzik, MacCagnan

 

players

Gholston, Revis , ODonnell, Sanchez

[long suffering jets fan]

On 1/3/2018 at 1:18 PM, SouthernJet said:

I will start:

 

1 - New owner Johnson making parcells totally leave organization as he promised year before (when Hess promised Belichick he would have TOTAL control following year when Tuna retired). Instead Tuna decides to stay as President and Belichick , not being stupid, says BS, I've been in his shadow my whole career and if he is Prez of team and I start out 2-5, he will come back to sideline. No trophies cause Parcells decided he wanted to stay since new owner would allow it (Hess promised Belichick 100% control)

2 - Is a penalty a mistake? Gastineau roughing Kosar on meaningless last gasp play that allowed Browns to win game and cost us a AFC Champ/SB berth. We were better than Denver that year (they beat Browns following week on 98 yd drive). I think we would have had home field for that game. 

3 - Lam Jones #1 pick in draft

4 - Not having own stadium

 

Add to this, not committing to draft Peyton Manning first, resulting in him staying in school and Indy drafting him the following year.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 1/3/2018 at 1:18 PM, SouthernJet said:

I will start:

 

1 - New owner Johnson making parcells totally leave organization as he promised year before (when Hess promised Belichick he would have TOTAL control following year when Tuna retired). Instead Tuna decides to stay as President and Belichick , not being stupid, says BS, I've been in his shadow my whole career and if he is Prez of team and I start out 2-5, he will come back to sideline. No trophies cause Parcells decided he wanted to stay since new owner would allow it (Hess promised Belichick 100% control)

2 - Is a penalty a mistake? Gastineau roughing Kosar on meaningless last gasp play that allowed Browns to win game and cost us a AFC Champ/SB berth. We were better than Denver that year (they beat Browns following week on 98 yd drive). I think we would have had home field for that game. 

3 - Lam Jones #1 pick in draft

4 - Not having own stadium

 

Lam Jones was a first rounder, but not #1 overall.  Actually Gholston was less productive,  Blair Thomas and that other CB from just a few years ago and Calvin Pryor are up there too.

[long suffering jets fan]

Extending Santonio Holmes and cutting half the offense to pay for it.  This destroyed Sanchez blocking, receiving corp and running game ending our playoff run and ultimately destroying Sanchez.

[long suffering jets fan]

On 1/3/2018 at 3:50 PM, SouthernJet said:

Not true. If Parcells had kept his word to longtime aide Belichick and retire and give Belichick 100% control (what he was promised) we would have had Belly. parcells didnt have to stay cause there was new owner when Hess died. Tuna could have said "No, thanks for Prez offer, but I promised Belly I would leave and give him 100% total control". Belley knew if he won they would say it was Jetz Prez Tuna or if he started out 1-4, Tuna would come back to sidelines. He wanted to be on his own w/no Tuna shadow. Tuna screwed Belly for money and maybe power.

Agreed, I would also add that the way Parcells left New England dragging Belichick along wasn't great.  Beli didn't have an axe to grind with Kraft, so by going back it was kind of like he was righting a wrong.

[y2k8]

1 hour ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Agreed, I would also add that the way Parcells left New England dragging Belichick along wasn't great.  Beli didn't have an axe to grind with Kraft, so by going back it was kind of like he was righting a wrong.

I'm curious what you mean about "dragging Belichick along" because BB was completely complicit in Parcels coming to the Jets. In fact, BB was not only the HC of the NYJ for a day in 2000, he was announced "technically" as HC of the NYJ in 1997 until the Tuna's "situation" with New England was settled among all parties. There was a bizarre press conference that had Parcels on speaker phone if I remember correctly... I'm sure I'm not imagining this...

EDit: Actually BB was HC for 6 days in 1997 and 1 day in 2000.  He was our coach for a collective week!

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-02-11/sports/sp-27483_1_bill-parcells

 

[nyjunc]

13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You truly are a moron if you think on 1/4/2000 no one knew who the owner of the Jets was.  Or that it made a difference. And a huge dick stroker if you think that it makes you right.  Somehow.  

Stop telling me how good hes been, we know.  Doesn't make you smart.  Doesn't make BB a HC in demand in 2000 with leverage.  Negotiating a contact.  Because he was already under contract.  His contact was bought along with the team when Woody bought the Jets.  Youre not right.  Go away already, WTF is the matter with you that you can't stop, no matter the subject?  

I would have guessed that a Pats fan like you would know

Oh so Woody was controlling things and making decisions before he won the bid.  and you are calling someone else a moron

It's so cute when you have nothing real to respond to how you resort to personal attacks and making things up.  enjoy your weekend.

[long suffering jets fan]

3 hours ago, y2k8 said:

I'm curious what you mean about "dragging Belichick along" because BB was completely complicit in Parcels coming to the Jets. In fact, BB was not only the HC of the NYJ for a day in 2000, he was announced "technically" as HC of the NYJ in 1997 until the Tuna's "situation" with New England was settled among all parties. There was a bizarre press conference that had Parcels on speaker phone if I remember correctly... I'm sure I'm not imagining this...

EDit: Actually BB was HC for 6 days in 1997 and 1 day in 2000.  He was our coach for a collective week!

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-02-11/sports/sp-27483_1_bill-parcells

 

You may very well be correct, I remember reading an article where it said Belichick wasn't happy how Parcells stuck it to Kraft, but your argument and evidence are sensible.  

Do you know how Beli and Kraft reconnected?  Did Beli say, Rob I'm not happy with the situation here,  you interested in a head coach?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 Belichick 2 Marino 3 Sanchez 4 who the f knows 5 who the f cares.

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

1 Belichick 2 Marino 3 Sanchez 4 who the f knows 5 who the f cares.

Why Sanchez?

[The Crusher]

17 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You truly are a moron if you think on 1/4/2000 no one knew who the owner of the Jets was.  Or that it made a difference. And a huge dick stroker if you think that it makes you right.  Somehow.  

Stop telling me how good hes been, we know.  Doesn't make you smart.  Doesn't make BB a HC in demand in 2000 with leverage.  Negotiating a contact.  Because he was already under contract.  His contact was bought along with the team when Woody bought the Jets.  Youre not right.  Go away already, WTF is the matter with you that you can't stop, no matter the subject?  

I would have guessed that a Pats fan like you would know

Could we do this without the personal attack?

[Lith]

Here is one that has been under the radar -- never gets talked about much.

Reggie Rembert.  WR out of West Virginia drafted by Jets in the 2nd round (28 overall) of the 1990 draft.  Rembert and his agent considered him a first round talent and wanted to be paid like 1st rounder regardless of draft position.  Rembert held out, never signed with Jets and was eventually dealt to Cincy for a couple of OL.  Unable to sign Rembert, we selected Rob Moore in the 1st round of the 1990 supplemental draft, surrendering the first that we likely would have used to select Brett Favre in 1991.

Reggie Rembert.  Not sure he belongs on the Mt Rushmore of Jet mistakes, but he is a guy I always think of in the context of these discussions.