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Jets and Broncos looking to move up for a QB


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2 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Let’s look at it this way. If we picked one of the three top QBs in the draft we would have to give up a lot. If they performed to the level of Cousins I’d imagine we’d all be doing an Irish jig in our living rooms every Sunday. The problem is we have no idea if that would actually happen. For arguments sake though let say that maybe through time and experience one of these guys develops Cousins level of talent. That’s not going to happen immediately. It will take three to four years. In addition, the amount of picks it will take to move up will be very costly. This team can fill many holes in free agency but everyone knows the draft is the life blood of every NFL team. By signing Cousins we know what we’re getting and don’t have to wait for it. We also don’t lose picks and high ones at that plus have loads of money to sign other free agents. We can be a playoff contender right away. Drafting a QB just means we’re facing another two to three years of mediocrity at best and who knows if they even pan out.

#LoGiK

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9 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Cousins will be a Bronco and this will be a mute point.

Cousins is the deciding factor as to how the QB situation plays out. SF already has invested in JimmyG and he’s played outstanding. Can’t see them letting him walk. Cousins has paid his dues playing for a sub par team. He’s in his prime and Denver has all the pieces to make a run. Perfect fit. Makes no sense for us as we are really a clone of that Redskin team.  This would open the door for us to at least trade up to 1 or 3.  So many question marks but we should at least be able to land Mayfield if Rosen and Darnold go off the board. 

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9 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Cleveland or the Giants are not trading out of their top 2 spots anyway.  Both are QB needy teams.

What really sucks is we're likely going to have to trade to the 3 spot and give away a lot - just to get the 3rd best QB in the draft.

how do you know who the third best QB in the draft is ?

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2 hours ago, Viermoo said:

Let’s look at it this way. If we picked one of the three top QBs in the draft we would have to give up a lot. If they performed to the level of Cousins I’d imagine we’d all be doing an Irish jig in our living rooms every Sunday. The problem is we have no idea if that would actually happen. For arguments sake though let say that maybe through time and experience one of these guys develops Cousins level of talent. That’s not going to happen immediately. It will take three to four years. In addition, the amount of picks it will take to move up will be very costly. This team can fill many holes in free agency but everyone knows the draft is the life blood of every NFL team. By signing Cousins we know what we’re getting and don’t have to wait for it. We also don’t lose picks and high ones at that plus have loads of money to sign other free agents. We can be a playoff contender right away. Drafting a QB just means we’re facing another two to three years of mediocrity at best and who knows if they even pan out.

Ehhhhhrrrr. No dice. Cousins will cost way to much. That immediately diminishes your FA money.  This team lacks quality talent. It has decent depth but the whole starting team wouldn’t even start on the majority of teams in the NFL.  We have ZERO pro bowlers. ZERO. Our OL is mediocre as are our LB’s, and entire secondary. Our DL, which once was our strength, is now pedestrian. We have no true #1 WR or #1 RB. In other words, we stink.  We need numerous positions filled by quality players. Yes QB is one but we are just not in a position to make a run with the poor overall talent we have. Trade down, do what it takes and get Rosen or Darnold. Mac can’t draft anyways so who cares if he gives up multiple picks. He’ll just screw them up anyway. At least if we trade to #1, we’d have our choice and truly have a foundation to build around in place. The Eagles and Rams have done this recently and are on the right path.  You don’t build around a 38 year old back up QB and  pass him off like he’s Sonny Jurgenson.

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I could care less what the draft charts are. If we have to also give a 2020 first along with our firsts from 2018/2019 and both second rounders this year, get it done.

We have plenty of cap space to fill holes until we get our draft picks back to full capacity. 

Pay whatever is necessary !

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12 hours ago, thshadow said:

If Darnold / Rosen go 1/2, what QB do we think is going in the 3 spot that we need to trade up for?

I seriously doubt that the first 3 picks in this draft will be QBs.

This is what I think: If the Browns and Giants draft QBs at 1 and 2, then a QB will go at 3. Indy will either trade back a couple spots with a team that will be desperate to not miss out. 

I would also like to sign Kirk Cousins with a way out of the contract after 2-3 years. I would draft a QB as well. It is similar situation when the Seahawks signed Matt Flynn and drafted Russell Wilson in the 3rd. 

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3 hours ago, BigO said:

Cousins is the deciding factor as to how the QB situation plays out. SF already has invested in JimmyG and he’s played outstanding. Can’t see them letting him walk. Cousins has paid his dues playing for a sub par team. He’s in his prime and Denver has all the pieces to make a run. Perfect fit. Makes no sense for us as we are really a clone of that Redskin team.  This would open the door for us to at least trade up to 1 or 3.  So many question marks but we should at least be able to land Mayfield if Rosen and Darnold go off the board. 

Denver has a chance to make a run? You do realize they lost 8 games in a row & their starting WRs are over 30 years old right? This isn't the Ray Lewis Ravens defense anymore & to sign Cousins they have to weaken their defense by letting a player like Talib go. Their Oline was worse than ours. Denvers Super Bowl window is CLOSED.

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4 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Does anyone truly have faith that Mac can pull off signing Cousins or moving up in the draft without getting raped in the process and choosing the right QB. He can't F this up. 

it's not about having faith that mccags can do it.  anyone can throw enough money at a problem if you have it to spend.  i wonder if mccags is more gunshy about spending so much money on one guy when he just got burned by revis and wilk.  sure the situations are all different, and qb is qb, but still, he has thus far proven to be a prudent gm for the most part.  

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14 hours ago, faba said:

First manning is going nowhere but the Giants will pick a guy to develop

 

My gut has to be Cleveland can not play around whoever they think is the best QB they have to take in that one slot

If Mac believes that Darnold and Rosen are far better than all of the other options, I fail to see how the giants would pass up swapping their first round pick for the Jets first and two seconds this year, plus a first next year. The giants have a clear shot at another SB with Manning and Odell, and if they use the picks on a RB and two O lineman, a lot of their problems are almost immediately fixed. Ans at this point, it would be near impossible for the Jets to pay too much to finally land a franchise QB.

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3 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

I support pretty much any move it takes to go up and get a QB..  I’m tired of not having one  this position has been a mess for way to long . 

This is why you blow the Giants away with an offer for the #2 pick. The giants don't NEED a QB and can be enticed by a volume of good picks that puts them in the SB hunt for the next two years.

Frankly, the Giants GM is committing professional malpractice if he is not actively shopping the pick to gauge it's value. And there is not way that the uncertain futures of either Darnold or Rosen can outweigh the real chances of a SB win that multiple high picks would afford the Giants.

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8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

it's not about having faith that mccags can do it.  anyone can throw enough money at a problem if you have it to spend.  i wonder if mccags is more gunshy about spending so much money on one guy when he just got burned by revis and wilk.  sure the situations are all different, and qb is qb, but still, he has thus far proven to be a prudent gm for the most part.  

It also has a lot to do with Cousins, and there will be plenty of teams bidding for his service. I think there will be some unexpected teams in the mix. Cousins already has a problem with his GM, and I think that will be a major factor in his decision. I think it's a positive that Mac already tried to trade for Cousins so he knows Mac has faith in him. If that counts for anything. 

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27 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

It also has a lot to do with Cousins, and there will be plenty of teams bidding for his service. I think there will be some unexpected teams in the mix. Cousins already has a problem with his GM, and I think that will be a major factor in his decision. I think it's a positive that Mac already tried to trade for Cousins so he knows Mac has faith in him. If that counts for anything. 

The only two teams that NEED a QB and can win games now are the Broncos and Cardinals. Why any team in a rebuild mode would pay buco bucks for a QB who is, at best, very good AND turns 30 this summer is beyond me. Elway can not whiff on another QB after the Paxton Lynch debacle.  I see Cousins in Denver in 2018 with Elway using his first round pick on a playmaker to help cousins out or an edge rusher to match with Von Miller.

That said. If the Chiefs move on from Alex Smith, he will end up in Washington because he is exactly the type of QB who excels in Gruden's offense.

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50 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

This is why you blow the Giants away with an offer for the #2 pick. The giants don't NEED a QB and can be enticed by a volume of good picks that puts them in the SB hunt for the next two years.

Frankly, the Giants GM is committing professional malpractice if he is not actively shopping the pick to gauge it's value. And there is not way that the uncertain futures of either Darnold or Rosen can outweigh the real chances of a SB win that multiple high picks would afford the Giants.

I think there is an unfortunate fact that rival teams from the same city are akin to trading within your own division.

I totally agree with what you say that it shouldn't impede a move that will make your team better but intercity rivals fan bases hate each other and trading a franchise Qb to the jets who helps them win would be viewed the same as if we traded a franchise player to the giants.

In any case, I will still be shocked if the giants do not pick a QB.

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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think there is an unfortunate fact that rival teams from the same city are akin to trading within your own division.

I totally agree with what you say that it shouldn't impede a move that will make your team better but intercity rivals fan bases hate each other and trading a franchise Qb to the jets who helps them win would be viewed the same as if we traded a franchise player to the giants.

In any case, I will still be shocked if the giants do not pick a QB.

You say you will be shocked if the Giants don't pick a QB. What would you do if you were the Giant's GM -- 1) pick the highest rated player on your board regardless of position -- Like Chubb?; 2) trade the pick for the best offer; 3) or pick the top QB not taken by the Browns?

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5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

You say you will be shocked if the Giants don't pick a QB. What would you do if you were the Giant's GM -- 1) pick the highest rated player on your board regardless of position -- Like Chubb?; 2) trade the pick for the best offer; 3) or pick the top QB not taken by the Browns?

Pick the QB not taken by the Browns.

- You rarely find yourself picking top two in a draft.

- Qb outweighs all other positions by a mile.

- i have an aging QB that is near the end that might still give us a year or mentor-ship.

- I look over at my fellow NY team and see that they have had no QB and haven't been able to find one for 20 or more years.

Easy decision for me.

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4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

You say you will be shocked if the Giants don't pick a QB. What would you do if you were the Giant's GM -- 1) pick the highest rated player on your board regardless of position -- Like Chubb?; 2) trade the pick for the best offer; 3) or pick the top QB not taken by the Browns?

If I were the Giants, I'd trade down with the Jets or whoever. But still take a QB later on. If you can build a good oline you can let Eli play for a few more years while you develop a 2nd or 3rd round guy. You won't have the fan base screaming for their 2nd overall pick to start as soon as Eli throws a pick. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The only two teams that NEED a QB and can win games now are the Broncos and Cardinals. Why any team in a rebuild mode would pay buco bucks for a QB who is, at best, very good AND turns 30 this summer is beyond me. Elway can not whiff on another QB after the Paxton Lynch debacle.  I see Cousins in Denver in 2018 with Elway using his first round pick on a playmaker to help cousins out or an edge rusher to match with Von Miller.

That said. If the Chiefs move on from Alex Smith, he will end up in Washington because he is exactly the type of QB who excels in Gruden's offense.

Agreed. I have also heard from some of the local talking head radio hosts in Miami that they are going to be cutting dead weight on defense and might move on from Tannehill. I don't know if I believe that but they emphasized his two ACL tears in less than a year and his salary.  They seem to think Cousins would be a good fit for Gase. My bet would be Denver, but who knows, there is always an unexpected turn in FA.

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14 hours ago, Gangrene said:

I've heard the cap space aurgument before and it is valid. However if Elway really wants Cousins, they will dump salaries, renegotiate players, whomever they have to. The question is Cousins ready to go to the best situation to win a Super Bowl or continue on the path to the most money?

That said, there are other QB options for the Broncos. ProFootball Focus feel certain that the Chiefs are ready to move onto the Mahones era next season, no matter how far they get in the playoffs with Smith.

I highly doubt the Chiefs trade their QB to a division rival. I think Smith goes to the Browns. Browns have too many draft picks (55 players already under contract for 2018) and Dorsey was the one who traded for Smith from the 49ers.

10 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Tell you what fellas........with it very likely the jets wind up with one of the top 5 qbs WITHOUT trading up, possibly top 4 with just a little luck, id hold on to my 2 second rounders and build my offense for whoever we get.

these qbs are all question marks anyways. Not sure its worth giving up 2 2nd rounders to move up a few spots

If the Jets don't sign Cousins then it will be a dead give away that we are picking a QB at #6. There is no way I risk taking the 4th or 5th QB when we have the ammo to get a top 3 QB. If we are jumped by a team because we didn't fork over a draft pick I'll be livid.

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3 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I've been doing my fair share of spying on enemy fansites, and most Giants fans don't want to draft a QB, but they want Barkley, and Browns fans want Cousins instead of drafting one too.

If it turned out this way I would be nothing short of elated and feel finally that we as a team have caught a break.

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22 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think there is an unfortunate fact that rival teams from the same city are akin to trading within your own division.

I totally agree with what you say that it shouldn't impede a move that will make your team better but intercity rivals fan bases hate each other and trading a franchise Qb to the jets who helps them win would be viewed the same as if we traded a franchise player to the giants.

In any case, I will still be shocked if the giants do not pick a QB.

The Giants top need is not a Quarterback, Eli is still alright and can be great with a team around him. One of their biggest struggles last year was a trash heap of an O-Line. They also had a really bad Running game which is why many Giants fans are calling for Barkley.

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28 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The only two teams that NEED a QB and can win games now are the Broncos and Cardinals. Why any team in a rebuild mode would pay buco bucks for a QB who is, at best, very good AND turns 30 this summer is beyond me. Elway can not whiff on another QB after the Paxton Lynch debacle.  I see Cousins in Denver in 2018 with Elway using his first round pick on a playmaker to help cousins out or an edge rusher to match with Von Miller.

That said. If the Chiefs move on from Alex Smith, he will end up in Washington because he is exactly the type of QB who excels in Gruden's offense.

1) Smith is going to the Browns, I'd bet my last dollar on it. Dorsey traded for Smith from the 49ers and the Browns have too many draft picks. (already have 55 players under contract for 2018)

2) I think the Redskins slap Cousins with the Transition Tag so they can match any deal offered by the Broncos. If that's the case Cousins will need to choose a team that can out bid the skins, Jets, Browns, and 49ers have the most money Browns likely draft a QB + Smith and the 49ers have Jimmy G. The only way I don't see us landing Cousins is if we don't try to sign him.

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5 minutes ago, Grandy said:

I've been doing my fair share of spying on enemy fansites, and most Giants fans don't want to draft a QB, but they want Barkley, and Browns fans want Cousins instead of drafting one too.

I'm not sold that the Giants will take a QB at #2. I don't think Cousins chooses to go to the Browns though.

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Neither am I. The way Gettleman has talked about it shoring up the OL

I think the Jets or Broncos will own the #2 pick when it's all said and done, whichever doesn't land Cousins. I think the Giants are high on Darnold but not so much on Rosen or Allen. With Khan coming out saying Blake Bortles is his QB for the future I think that closes the door on an Eli trade. My gut says that they will take a QB at the top of round 2 so they can sit for the final 2 years of Eli's contract.

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4 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I'm not sold that the Giants will take a QB at #2. I don't think Cousins chooses to go to the Browns though.

Even though it looks pretty on paper, it'd be stupid for them to take a QB. They have much larger and more noticeable problems to solve than getting an Eli Replacement.

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6 minutes ago, Grandy said:

The Giants top need is not a Quarterback, Eli is still alright and can be great with a team around him. One of their biggest struggles last year was a trash heap of an O-Line. They also had a really bad Running game which is why many Giants fans are calling for Barkley.

People are vastly overrating how much eli has left in the tank imo.

Hey nothing I would like better than to have them not take a Qb but I think they are smarter than that.  You do not get to or aspire to get two the 2nd pick in the draft so when you find yourself there you should take a Qb if the need is there.

In the end it will depend on how they feel about Darnold and Rosen.

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1 minute ago, Grandy said:

Even though it looks pretty on paper, it'd be stupid for them to take a QB. They have much larger and more noticeable problems to solve than getting an Eli Replacement.

Yes...but...the logic is: These are THE GIANTS...when will they be selecting at #2 again? In another 20-25 years? That's the logic.  If you have to pick at #2, why not reload for another 10-15 year run of success? It can go either way.

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