chirorob Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 1:24 PM, Joe W. Namath said: Coaches dont count against the salary cap so he is worth it. Who cares whats coming out of the owners pocket. If Gruden helps sell out that stadium until they move, he is worth every penny. BB should make more. How much money has he made for Kraft? How much does 2 home playoff games get him every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandarinia Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 4:20 PM, Pequod said: Hmmm, I suggest you look at the Patriots forums, crickets about the Jets. Why So? Because people on the forum love football, hence we talk about all 32 teams. Whereas, on a Patriots forum, 90% of the fans are only fans of the Patriots because they are "winners" and really could care less about the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 10:56 AM, greenwichjetfan said: Ok, agree to disagree. No one will ever convince me that Brady played 1 vs. 53 and was responsible for building and maintaining a competitive roster and gameplanning to stop some of the best offenses in league history for the past 17 years. And not for nothing, but if he didn't have Adam Vinatieri there to kick those field goals in Oak and the first three super bowls, those teams would have been forgotten. Simpletons remember winners, and specifically, the winning QB because that's the easiest to see and that's the narrative that sports writers like to create because it's marketable. That's fine for you. obviously it wasn't 1 on 53 but also obviously Brady was the difference maker. all you have to do is look at his long HC career w/o Brady and see the results. BB has been very fortunate both as a D coach and a HC in that he had the greatest D player of all time and the greatest QB of all time. Coaches need talent to win but they don't need the greatest of all time to win. oh now it's Adam Vinatieri, you know Peyton Manning had him just as long. How many did he win w/ Peyton? how many did AV win w/ NE pre Brady? how many in Indy w/ Luck? The QB set the K up after the defensive genius watched his D blow historic leads in SBs. Oh and Brady has 4 SB apps and 2 SB wins post AV, AV has 1 SB app and 1 SB win post Brady and that was won mostly w/ great defense in that 2006 playoff run. yes he has gameplanned, how many has he stopped? again, his D's bcame the first TWO D's EVER to blow double digit 4th qtr leads in SBs, in the 2 losses Brady left the field w/ a lead and the D blew them. How many times has his D come up small in the playoffs? let's look: SB XXVB which he gets so much credit for his brilliant gameplan where he allowed Buffalo to score 17 pts in 19 mins TOP(which was Buf's average during the year by the way). Just brilliant, if NYG's O doesn't hold the ball for 40 mins they don't win that game. Gave up 27 pts to Neil O'Donnell and the Steelers in 1994 div rd, a week later Pitt would lose to SD at home ion title game. Jets had 10 point 2nd half lead in AFC Championship in 1998, lost 23-10. Immediately after we took the 10-0 lead in the 3rd BB's D allowed a 3 play TD drive and momentum swung back to Denver. in a game that eventually determined whether we made the playoffs or not his D allowed 41 pts to a mediocre Giants offense in Dec 1999. Became 1st D EVER to blow double digit 4th qtr lead in a SB when they blew 14 pt 4th qtr lead in SB 36 Became 2nd D EVER to blow double digit 4th qtr lead in SB 38 when they blew 11 pt lead to mighty Jake Delhomme and Carolina where they allowed 29 pts. allowed 27 to Jake Plummer and Denver in 2005 In 2006 Championship Gamne blew 21-3 lead to one of the greatest choking QBVs of all time. Brady had no run game, Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his top weapons while leading NE O to 27 pts and BB's great D allowed 38 pts. Brady leads 80 yd drive to take 4 pt lead over giants in SB 42, NE D allows mediocre O to go down the field and score winning TD D allows 33 to Ravens and Joe Flacco in 2009 WC game at home D allows 28 to Mark Sanchez and Jets at home in div rd D again blows late SB lead to NYG. D allows 28 to Baltimore in 2012 title game at home D got lucky vs. Seattle in 2014, they were on the verge of blowing another. as it was they allowed 24 pts. Know how many losing SB teams have scored at least 24? You can credit BB all you want, the facts show us otherwise. He's an under .500 HC w/o Brady as his starter, he's missed the playoffs 6 of 7 years w/o him and had 5 losing seasons. In NE he was 5-11 then gave Bledsoe a $100 mil extension showing his faith in Brady. Bledsoe gets knocked out after they are 0-2 and magically they go 11-3 the rest of the way. It was obviously all BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 18 hours ago, chirorob said: If Gruden helps sell out that stadium until they move, he is worth every penny. BB should make more. How much money has he made for Kraft? How much does 2 home playoff games get him every year? they get 2 home playoff games nearly every year b/c of the QB and BB already makes more than Gruden(again thanks to Brady). gruden will be worth it if he gets to and wins a SB in Oak/LV. he is walking into a very talented team and should be able to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southtown24th Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 $200 mill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 hours ago, nyjunc said: obviously it wasn't 1 on 53 but also obviously Brady was the difference maker. all you have to do is look at his long HC career w/o Brady and see the results. BB has been very fortunate both as a D coach and a HC in that he had the greatest D player of all time and the greatest QB of all time. Coaches need talent to win but they don't need the greatest of all time to win. oh now it's Adam Vinatieri, you know Peyton Manning had him just as long. How many did he win w/ Peyton? how many did AV win w/ NE pre Brady? how many in Indy w/ Luck? The QB set the K up after the defensive genius watched his D blow historic leads in SBs. Oh and Brady has 4 SB apps and 2 SB wins post AV, AV has 1 SB app and 1 SB win post Brady and that was won mostly w/ great defense in that 2006 playoff run. yes he has gameplanned, how many has he stopped? again, his D's bcame the first TWO D's EVER to blow double digit 4th qtr leads in SBs, in the 2 losses Brady left the field w/ a lead and the D blew them. How many times has his D come up small in the playoffs? let's look: SB XXVB which he gets so much credit for his brilliant gameplan where he allowed Buffalo to score 17 pts in 19 mins TOP(which was Buf's average during the year by the way). Just brilliant, if NYG's O doesn't hold the ball for 40 mins they don't win that game. Gave up 27 pts to Neil O'Donnell and the Steelers in 1994 div rd, a week later Pitt would lose to SD at home ion title game. Jets had 10 point 2nd half lead in AFC Championship in 1998, lost 23-10. Immediately after we took the 10-0 lead in the 3rd BB's D allowed a 3 play TD drive and momentum swung back to Denver. in a game that eventually determined whether we made the playoffs or not his D allowed 41 pts to a mediocre Giants offense in Dec 1999. Became 1st D EVER to blow double digit 4th qtr lead in a SB when they blew 14 pt 4th qtr lead in SB 36 Became 2nd D EVER to blow double digit 4th qtr lead in SB 38 when they blew 11 pt lead to mighty Jake Delhomme and Carolina where they allowed 29 pts. allowed 27 to Jake Plummer and Denver in 2005 In 2006 Championship Gamne blew 21-3 lead to one of the greatest choking QBVs of all time. Brady had no run game, Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his top weapons while leading NE O to 27 pts and BB's great D allowed 38 pts. Brady leads 80 yd drive to take 4 pt lead over giants in SB 42, NE D allows mediocre O to go down the field and score winning TD D allows 33 to Ravens and Joe Flacco in 2009 WC game at home D allows 28 to Mark Sanchez and Jets at home in div rd D again blows late SB lead to NYG. D allows 28 to Baltimore in 2012 title game at home D got lucky vs. Seattle in 2014, they were on the verge of blowing another. as it was they allowed 24 pts. Know how many losing SB teams have scored at least 24? You can credit BB all you want, the facts show us otherwise. He's an under .500 HC w/o Brady as his starter, he's missed the playoffs 6 of 7 years w/o him and had 5 losing seasons. In NE he was 5-11 then gave Bledsoe a $100 mil extension showing his faith in Brady. Bledsoe gets knocked out after they are 0-2 and magically they go 11-3 the rest of the way. It was obviously all BB. Honest to god, can't even be bothered to read this. I'm sorry you wasted your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pcola Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 How about a more important question: If Gruden is worth $10M a year, does that mean Bowles is being over paid at $4M? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 To answer the OP: Belichick would be worth more than any other coach in the league simply because he would trade on his reputation with NE. Most, probably all, teams would jump at the chance at nearly two decades of success. Belichick's strength is that he is very good at many things and he has a clear vision for the direction of the team. It's easy to be good when you have a HOF QB your entire tenure with the team. It's easy to build around a franchise QB especially when he takes a lower contract than what he could get elsewhere. Their success is tied together. We don't really know what Belichick would do building a team without being handed an already successful team and lucking into drafting a HOF QB to sit behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 16 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said: Honest to god, can't even be bothered to read this. I'm sorry you wasted your time. It is a waste of time trying to help someone whop doesn't understand the game and doesn't want to learn. You are entitled to your opinions as off as they are but being adults we can have a back and forth and sharing of our opinions. You choose to ignore reality and that's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, nyjunc said: It is a waste of time trying to help someone whop doesn't understand the game and doesn't want to learn. You are entitled to your opinions as off as they are but being adults we can have a back and forth and sharing of our opinions. You choose to ignore reality and that's up to you. No one's ignoring anything. I choose not to read your redundant, long-winded, bordering-on-trolling posts because I've probably read them elsewhere on this board. You have an uncanny ability to infest every single thread with your extra-ridiculous contrarian views; all the while posting in a holier-than-thou tone talking about "helping" and "teaching" others. I know your emotions for Brady. I also know that you think Peyton was a scrub who was carried by Dungy and Kubiak, that you think Sanchez was a driving force for our 2 conference championship runs, and that you think Eli and Favre are terrible. Taking all of that garbage under consideration, I still took time to engage in a discussion with you. I explained my stance on this in a legitimate way. You did the same. I said to agree to disagree, and you came back with another long post as if you wanted to continue this. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 9:08 AM, nyjunc said: This great tactician has been a mediocre defensive coach w/o the greatest defensive player in league history and a failure of a HC w/o the greatest QB to ever play. Bill Belichick as a HC without Tom Brady: 7+ seasons 54-63 record, 46% ONE WC playoff app ONE WC playoff win 5 LOSING seasons most games won in a season? 11 Bill Belichick with Tom Brady as HC: 196-55, 78% 16 seasons 15 division titles 25 playoff wins 5 Super Bowl wins 7 conf titles 12 title game apps times won MORE than 11 games in a season? TWELVE I'm not sure how anyone can look at these numbers and see anything else but BB is a very average coach that fell into a QB in the 6th round that became the greatest of all time. How can you argue with that record? T he numbers are stark - and certainly a long enough window to be clear that his record as a HC without Brady is poor. Even the point that he was 0-2 before Brady took over (and that was due to injury not a genius move of pulling the QB) Fact is, he was on his way to being fired from his second HC job and was saved by TB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Depends if Ernie Adams comes as part of the package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: I'm not sure how anyone can look at these numbers and see anything else but BB is a very average coach that fell into a QB in the 6th round that became the greatest of all time. How can you argue with that record? T he numbers are stark - and certainly a long enough window to be clear that his record as a HC without Brady is poor. Even the point that he was 0-2 before Brady took over (and that was due to injury not a genius move of pulling the QB) Fact is, he was on his way to being fired from his second HC job and was saved by TB. Or we could say Brady was a 6th round pick, a forgettable prospect, benched in college and Belichick had a big part in helping him become the greatest(or one of) of all time. The Pats went 11-5 with Cassel. 3-1 last year with Garraplo/Brisset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Or we could say Brady was a 6th round pick, a forgettable prospect, benched in college and Belichick had a big part in helping him become the greatest(or one of) of all time. The Pats went 11-5 with Cassel. 3-1 last year with Garraplo/Brisset. Though to make the bolded claim considering BB had QB's prior to Brady that failed...Bledsoe was a good QB - BB couldn't win with him. So now 11-5 and missing the playoffs is good? Heck, Rex Ryan won 11 games. 12 teams a year make the playoffs - Cassel's Pats weren't one of them. So he coached the 13th best team that year. GOAT it is not. Todd Bowles was 3-2 with McCown. Turns out Garapolo is a much better QB than McCown. Even if your using those numbers to highlight BB - those aren't championship numbers. He's just another coach that had a reasonably good season. GOAT it is not. The point I'm trying to make is while BB has done a great job managing Brady and the Pats to what they've become - Brady is the reason they're winning championships not BB. BB is no lock to be successful if he went somewhere else and certainly not worth $20mm a year. If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt or BB had passed on Brady for the 6th time (instead of 5) BB would go down in history as a very good DC and just another coach from the Parcels tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Though to make the bolded claim considering BB had QB's prior to Brady that failed...Bledsoe was a good QB - BB couldn't win with him. So now 11-5 and missing the playoffs is good? Heck, Rex Ryan won 11 games. 12 teams a year make the playoffs - Cassel's Pats weren't one of them. So he coached the 13th best team that year. GOAT it is not. Todd Bowles was 3-2 with McCown. Turns out Garapolo is a much better QB than McCown. Even if your using those numbers to highlight BB - those aren't championship numbers. He's just another coach that had a reasonably good season. GOAT it is not. The point I'm trying to make is while BB has done a great job managing Brady and the Pats to what they've become - Brady is the reason they're winning championships not BB. BB is no lock to be successful if he went somewhere else and certainly not worth $20mm a year. If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt or BB had passed on Brady for the 6th time (instead of 5) BB would go down in history as a very good DC and just another coach from the Parcels tree. Belichick barely coached Bledsoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Though to make the bolded claim considering BB had QB's prior to Brady that failed...Bledsoe was a good QB - BB couldn't win with him. So now 11-5 and missing the playoffs is good? Heck, Rex Ryan won 11 games. 12 teams a year make the playoffs - Cassel's Pats weren't one of them. So he coached the 13th best team that year. GOAT it is not. Todd Bowles was 3-2 with McCown. Turns out Garapolo is a much better QB than McCown. Even if your using those numbers to highlight BB - those aren't championship numbers. He's just another coach that had a reasonably good season. GOAT it is not. The point I'm trying to make is while BB has done a great job managing Brady and the Pats to what they've become - Brady is the reason they're winning championships not BB. BB is no lock to be successful if he went somewhere else and certainly not worth $20mm a year. If Bledsoe doesn't get hurt or BB had passed on Brady for the 6th time (instead of 5) BB would go down in history as a very good DC and just another coach from the Parcels tree. So if you're saying that the QB the sole driver of a team game where there are 2/3rds of the game that the QB isn't even on the field for, and you're saying that a QB supersedes everything that goes into being a coach/gm such as roster maintenance, gameplanning, motivation, actually being on the field for defense and special teams....then you're saying that Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time, right? 1st overall pick, broke every single substantial record in the books, most of them multiple times, took 4 different head coaches to the Super Bowl, and is the only QB to ever win a super bowl with two different head coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Belichick barely coached Bledsoe I believe he was 5-13 with him (not sure on that though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: So if you're saying that the QB the sole driver of a team game where there are 2/3rds of the game that the QB isn't even on the field for, and you're saying that a QB supersedes everything that goes into being a coach/gm such as roster maintenance, gameplanning, motivation, actually being on the field for defense and special teams....then you're saying that Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time, right? 1st overall pick, broke every single substantial record in the books, most of them multiple times, took 4 different head coaches to the Super Bowl, and is the only QB to ever win a super bowl with two different head coaches. yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, FidelioJet said: yes. Good. Glad we settled that Peyton Manning is the G.O.A.T.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said: No one's ignoring anything. I choose not to read your redundant, long-winded, bordering-on-trolling posts because I've probably read them elsewhere on this board. You have an uncanny ability to infest every single thread with your extra-ridiculous contrarian views; all the while posting in a holier-than-thou tone talking about "helping" and "teaching" others. I know your emotions for Brady. I also know that you think Peyton was a scrub who was carried by Dungy and Kubiak, that you think Sanchez was a driving force for our 2 conference championship runs, and that you think Eli and Favre are terrible. Taking all of that garbage under consideration, I still took time to engage in a discussion with you. I explained my stance on this in a legitimate way. You did the same. I said to agree to disagree, and you came back with another long post as if you wanted to continue this. I don't. " I also know that you think Peyton was a scrub who was carried by Dungy and Kubiak, that you think Sanchez was a driving force for our 2 conference championship runs, and that you think Eli and Favre are terrible." I guess this is just my signal not to bother w/ you. You have nothing, you do nothing but make stuff up when your weak arguments are destroyed so have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: I believe he was 5-13 with him (not sure on that though) he was 5-13 w/ him. w/ Bledsoe he was 5-13, Bledsoe made a SB w/ Parcells w/ many of the same players BB went 5-13 w/. w/ Kosar he was 6-10, w/ other coaches Kosar made 3 AFC Championship Games and he was only 28 when BB took over. w/ Vinny he actually made the playoffs and won a WC game before being crushed in the div rd but w/ Vinny BP made a conf title game and won a division. Stevie Wonder could see the difference in BB's HC career was Brady. even when you look at BB as a defensive coach, he was GREAT when he had LT but w/o LT he has been nothing more than average. He's been very fortunate to coach the greatest D player and greatest QB of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, nyjunc said: " I also know that you think Peyton was a scrub who was carried by Dungy and Kubiak, that you think Sanchez was a driving force for our 2 conference championship runs, and that you think Eli and Favre are terrible." I guess this is just my signal not to bother w/ you. You have nothing, you do nothing but make stuff up when your weak arguments are destroyed so have a great day. Lol any mention of brady/Peyton/Dungy/Sanchez/Eli/Favre are definitely 100% your bat signal. Like a moth to a flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said: Lol any mention of brady/Peyton/Dungy/Sanchez/Eli/Favre are definitely 100% your bat signal. Like a moth to a flame. it's not my fault you struggle w/ reading comprehension to where you think if I back Sanchez in any way and bash Peyton in any way that you conclude I think Mark is great and Peyton sucks. I feel bad for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, nyjunc said: it's not my fault you struggle w/ reading comprehension to where you think if I back Sanchez in any way and bash Peyton in any way that you conclude I think Mark is great and Peyton sucks. I feel bad for you. But you've gone on record and said that every positive thing that has gone on up in NE is "100% Brady". Somehow, even after I've constantly called brady an all-time great, and called him the cog in the engine, you feel that if any credit for the pats is given to anyone except brady, it's a slight to brady and that the obnoxiousness of the poster to even suggest otherwise means the poster is: - wholly uninformed - struggles with reading comprehension - doesn't understand the game and isn't willing to learn.....from you(!) - needs to be felt bad for ^The above is taken simply from your last 4 posts addressing me in this thread. Hm, interesting how that works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said: But you've gone on record and said that every positive thing that has gone on up in NE is "100% Brady". Somehow, even after I've constantly called brady an all-time great, and called him the cog in the engine, you feel that if any credit for the pats is given to anyone except brady, it's a slight to brady and that the obnoxiousness of the poster to even suggest otherwise means the poster is: - wholly uninformed - struggles with reading comprehension - doesn't understand the game and isn't willing to learn.....from you(!) - needs to be felt bad for ^The above is taken simply from your last 4 posts addressing me in this thread. Hm, interesting how that works for you. yes that is what I have said. It's all Brady, he takes teams on 1 on 11 every game. Your reading comprehension is truly a special gift. I understand what you are doing, you are deflecting from the topic. You have nothing to actually back up your wild claims so you deflect. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.