If Josh Allen looks good at the senior bowl, will you change your opinion of him?

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

I'm not Allen's biggest fan but acting as if he's Hack 2.0 is absurd. Allen doesn't have anywhere close to the accuracy woes of Hack. And no one will be coming into this draft with better tools.

An interesting stat:

Wyoming's record the 2 yrs before Allen took over: 6-18

Wyoming's record in the 2 yrs with Allen as their starter: 16-11

So despite not lighting up the stat sheet, he made his team markedly better. (Again, something Hack never did)

Is Allen someone your keeping an open mind to based on how he does with comparable talent, ie senior bowl? Can he climb your big board?

Very well said.

[legler82]

38 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

In my observation of watching both of them as College prospects, Josh Allen reminds me more of Blake Bortles than Carson Wentz.

 

 

I think he falls somewhere in the middle of those 2.  I think he is better coached and has better mechanics than Bortles but is not as accurate and poised as Wentz.

[Bugg]

Steve Serby's mock, make of it what you wish. We end up with Allen-

https://nypost.com/2018/01/07/giants-and-jets-will-snag-a-qb-in-our-first-nfl-mock-draft-of-2018/

He's probably pretty close. Don't see Darnold nor Rosen dropping, nor Mayfield getting past Broncos. And if you want to trade up, you will get hit off the head with a hard object. 

[KRL]

Only stupid scouts/teams will discount his horrible 2017 and only focus on the pre-draft

process.  Hopefully we won't be one of those teams

[HighPitch]

Man ive been to wyoming dozens of times. Lots of big dudes threre. 7777ft altitude you always feel sleepy and kinda just want to relax. Cant imagine playing sports there

[KRL]

The pre-draft process is important but it should never supercede the player's
tape.  If Allen becomes Tom Brady in the pre-draft process my question is why
was he so bad during the season?

[Jetsplayer21]

7 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

I'm not Allen's biggest fan but acting as if he's Hack 2.0 is absurd. Allen doesn't have anywhere close to the accuracy woes of Hack. And no one will be coming into this draft with better tools.

An interesting stat:

Wyoming's record the 2 yrs before Allen took over: 6-18

Wyoming's record in the 2 yrs with Allen as their starter: 16-11

So despite not lighting up the stat sheet, he made his team markedly better. (Again, something Hack never did)

Is Allen someone your keeping an open mind to based on how he does with comparable talent, ie senior bowl? Can he climb your big board?

How is 1 game going to change the fact he isn’t very good.. 

[BigO]

9 hours ago, Persiussa said:

For me personally he has to show an understanding of the offense that he’s being presented and show progress throughout the week in practice especially mentally and hopefully with mechanics. Of course none of us will see this but it will have to be evident in each days practice report. They always say the practices are the most important part and many scouts leave before the game. I will watch the game but put the most stock into the reports. 

I reckon Hack aced all those practices. Mac: Ok Hack this is a mental practice exercise - here are 2 pictures - now put an X on the picture of the ocean ? and a check mark ✅ on the picture of the barn. Uhhhh ok good try let’s do it again. Ok well done Hack well done! ??‍♂️

 

[HessStation]

I'll take any QB and hope for the best but Allen actually scares me the most out of any of the possible or potential first round picks. Nothing he could possibly do would change that at this point. That said, if he's the pick I'll start looking at every positive until/unless he still sucks about 4 years from now. 

[adb280z]

6 hours ago, KRL said:

The pre-draft process is important but it should never supercede the player's
tape.  If Allen becomes Tom Brady in the pre-draft process my question is why
was he so bad during the season?

Go to a high school football game.  Pick the best 10 guys, that's who he was playing with.

[legler82]

12 hours ago, BigO said:

I reckon Hack aced all those practices. Mac: Ok Hack this is a mental practice exercise - here are 2 pictures - now put an X on the picture of the ocean ? and a check mark ✅ on the picture of the barn. Uhhhh ok good try let’s do it again. Ok well done Hack well done! ??‍♂️

 

I know you were trying to be funny but Hack is actually a great example of why the Senior Bowl and the week of practices leading up to it is so valuable.  Hack was a true junior so he was not eligible for the Senior Bowl.  For some college QBs the Senior Bowl week is the first time they are exposed to a pro-style offense or quality surrounding casts and competition.  If he was eligible, maybe that week would have addressed some of the questions/concerns/excuses many had about him.  Like were his struggles in his sophomore and junior years due to the fact that Coach Franklin replaced Bill O'brien's pro-style offense with the Spread system that didn't mesh with his skill set?  Or was it because Penn St lost of all those scholarships and thus talent as a result of the Sandusky scandal?  Or did he really just suck?  If he stunk it up all week running a pro-style offense with better teammates, then maybe Mac or whomever was pounding the table to draft him in the 2nd would have had a harder case to make.  

[New York Mick]

Not unless he has a major injury. 

[FidelioJet]

21 hours ago, Bugg said:

Steve Serby's mock, make of it what you wish. We end up with Allen-

https://nypost.com/2018/01/07/giants-and-jets-will-snag-a-qb-in-our-first-nfl-mock-draft-of-2018/

He's probably pretty close. Don't see Darnold nor Rosen dropping, nor Mayfield getting past Broncos. And if you want to trade up, you will get hit off the head with a hard object. 

This definitely might happen.  I wouldn't be happy but he does seem like a Mac kind of guy.  

[Charlie Brown]

What about every single professional scout saying Allen isn’t ready are we all rejecting. 

Why in the world would a NY team put all that pressure on a high draft pick who won’t be ready for two years, probably minimum?

The Senior Bowl is supposed to change all that?

ok 

[JoJoTownsell1]

12 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

What about every single professional scout saying Allen isn’t ready are we all rejecting. 

Why in the world would a NY team put all that pressure on a high draft pick who won’t be ready for two years, probably minimum?

The Senior Bowl is supposed to change all that?

ok 

If he impresses scouts during the Senior Bowl practices and then plays better than Mayfield and Falk during the senior bowl, tell me why that wouldn't change your mind on him? Many of the knocks on him COULD be attributed to the team he was on. This is will be a neutral environment that gives Falk/Mayfield/Allen an even playing field. If he is as raw as some suggest, then he will likely play worse than both Mayfield and Falk. But why close the door on a kid with more talent and ability than every other QB in the draft?

It would be like closing the door on a kid because he played at North Dakota State.....
 

[bitonti]

I am going on record right now pre-senior Bowl that I'm more than ok, heck I'm thrilled with Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield and Lamar Jackson. I don't care if they get value or "Reach" for a QB at 6. I don't even care which one it is. Do the homework, consult the tea leaves, slaughter a goat, and Pick the one you like the best. Whatever happens, please take a QB at 6. Please. For everyone's sake.  Don't take a rd 2 mason Rudolph and make us eat that sh*t sandwich again. 

to use a baseball analogy the Jets (and BRowns) are looking for that fat meatball pitch. and will take a walk but end up  go down looking. Take a friggin cut. Be somebody. 

The only scenario I am OK with the JEts not taking a QB is literally if the top 5 QBs go 1-5. With the BRowns picking 2x that seems unlikely. 

[legler82]

21 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

What about every single professional scout saying Allen isn’t ready are we all rejecting. 

Why in the world would a NY team put all that pressure on a high draft pick who won’t be ready for two years, probably minimum?

The Senior Bowl is supposed to change all that?

ok 

"Every professional scout" really; exaggerate much?  What exactly makes Allen "not ready".  The fact that he has some accuracy concerns or lacks great poise in the pocket?  If so, those things are not likely to change too much in the NFL.  Outside of Rosen, he is probably the 2nd most ready to start of the consensus top QBs.  He's actually taken snaps from center, can perform 3-5-7 step drops w/ or w/o a hitch, experienced in identifying coverage after turning his back to the defense, has called plays in the huddle...etc...etc.  Most of those other guys not named Rosen have limited to no experience with those aspects of the pro game.  Also he doesn't have mechanical issues to clean-up like a Jackson or even Darnold.  A lot of his inaccurate passes are when he is throwing off platform which he does a lot even when it's not necessary.  I'm sure the fact that he does not trust his line probably has something to do with that.  "Boom or bust" maybe, but "project" or "isn't ready" he is not.  BTW I think coaching will have a lot to do on which direction his career goes in the NFL.

[JustInFudge]

On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:41 AM, New York Mick said:

Absolutely not. The combine is the stupidest thing in sports outside of diagnosing injuries and heart problems. 

The combine and senior bowl are 2 different events. 

[JustInFudge]

The Senior Bowl can 100% help Josh Allen.  In fact, I think him and Mason Rudolph stand the most to gain from it.

Will it change my opinion? Probably not but you're fooling yourself if you don't think this will 100% help his draft stock.

See Blake Bortles.

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

The Senior Bowl can 100% help Josh Allen.  In fact, I think him and Mason Rudolph stand the most to gain from it.

Will it change my opinion? Probably not but you're fooling yourself if you don't think this will 100% help his draft stock.

See Blake Bortles.

 

I think the Senior Bowl can help all these guys. Falk/Mayfield/Allen/Rudolph all have a chance to prove their worth. It's probably the best Senior bowl group of QBs I can remember. 

While you pointed out Bortles, the Senior Bowl also greatly improved the stock of Carson Wentz who many questioned coming from North Dakota State. 

[Bugg]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

What about every single professional scout saying Allen isn’t ready are we all rejecting. 

Why in the world would a NY team put all that pressure on a high draft pick who won’t be ready for two years, probably minimum?

The Senior Bowl is supposed to change all that?

ok 

Because you need a good QB, period. There aren't many. 

[New York Mick]

31 minutes ago, JiF said:

The combine and senior bowl are 2 different events. 

I know I swear the title said combine at one point. 

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, legler82 said:

"Every professional scout" really; exaggerate much?  What exactly makes Allen "not ready".  The fact that he has some accuracy concerns or lacks great poise in the pocket?  If so, those things are not likely to change too much in the NFL.  Outside of Rosen, he is probably the 2nd most ready to start of the consensus top QBs.  He's actually taken snaps from center, can perform 3-5-7 step drops w/ or w/o a hitch, experienced in identifying coverage after turning his back to the defense, has called plays in the huddle...etc...etc.  Most of those other guys not named Rosen have limited to no experience with those aspects of the pro game.  Also he doesn't have mechanical issues to clean-up like a Jackson or even Darnold.  A lot of his inaccurate passes are when he is throwing off platform which he does a lot even when it's not necessary.  I'm sure the fact that he does not trust his line probably has something to do with that.  "Boom or bust" maybe, but "project" or "isn't ready" he is not.  BTW I think coaching will have a lot to do on which direction his career goes in the NFL.

KC, Houston and Phila, all of which tailored their offenses more towards college spread-type offenses to fit their respective QBs had their QB under center only 28%, 32% and 29% of the time.  Yes its great that Allen called plays in a huddle and took more snaps under center, but these guys are all elite athletes and can learn to get by working under center by the time opening day comes around - or more likely, will have an offense tailored to their strengths with RPO plays and runs our of the pistol.

[peebag]

2 hours ago, legler82 said:

  BTW I think coaching will have a lot to do on which direction his career goes in the NFL.

Well that rules the Jets out.

[legler82]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

KC, Houston and Phila, all of which tailored their offenses more towards college spread-type offenses to fit their respective QBs had their QB under center only 28%, 32% and 29% of the time.  Yes its great that Allen called plays in a huddle and took more snaps under center, but these guys are all elite athletes and can learn to get by working under center by the time opening day comes around - or more likely, will have an offense tailored to their strengths with RPO plays and runs our of the pistol.

Houston yes but not KC, at least not yet, and Philly.  First off why would KC change their offense to tailor it around their back-up QB?  Mahomes didn't play until the last game of the season and when he did he ran the same offense Alex Smith ran and has been running.  Why would Philly tailor their offense towards the Spread for Wentz when he played in a pro-style offense in college, coincidently the exact same offense Allen ran?  They drafted Wentz in part because he was a great fit for what they had already planned to run.  All that being said, I agree just like Mahomes last year and Mariota the year before many of the Spread QBs in the years class are smart and able enough to learn the elements of working under center by opening day.  Don't get me confused; I'm not saying Allen is a better QB than the other guys in contention for the top 3-5 of the class, I'm just dispelling the notion that he is not ready or some kind of project; like Hack or Petty.  He may suck in the eyes of many but that's because he is not ready.

[Philc1]

If Allen looks semi-competent in the senior bowl he’s a Bronco

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If Allen looks semi-competent in the senior bowl he’s a Bronco

Then he'll suck.  Elway can't bring in a competent QB unless he's already a known HOF QB.

 

[Jack Straw]

I have no doubt that Jets' management would ignore three years of game film based on one 60 minute game.

[jack48]

I would just like to see if this kid is accurate.  Both Petty and Hack are not.  He will be throwing to strange receivers with little practice, so it will be hard to determine

[flgreen]

11 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

I have no doubt that Jets' management would ignore three years of game film based on one 60 minute game.

it's not even one game.  It's one 1/4 of 1 exhibition game.  As far as what goes on during the week, everyone knows he can throw the football one on one with out a pass rush 

[Pointdexter]

45 minutes ago, flgreen said:

it's not even one game.  It's one 1/4 of 1 exhibition game.  As far as what goes on during the week, everyone knows he can throw the football one on one with out a pass rush 

Really? So all wk of practice is just a never-ending contest of who can chunk it the furthest? 

There's nothing to be gleaned by these guys' accuracy?  Ability to read a defense? Ability to run a huddle and lead?

The fact that so many ppl are completely dismissing that these guys are playing real football for a whole wk, in pads, on a level playing field with equal talent for the first time, is crazy. There is value here if you pay attention. 

[Jack Straw]

Really? So all wk of practice is just a never-ending contest of who can chunk it the furthest? 
There's nothing to be gleaned by these guys' accuracy?  Ability to read a defense? Ability to run a huddle and lead?
The fact that so many ppl are completely dismissing that these guys are playing real football for a whole wk, in pads, on a level playing field with equal talent for the first time, is crazy. There is value here if you pay attention. 

Sincerely signed,
Christian Hackenberg


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Adoni Beast]

This kid, like Hackenberg is not fit for a west coast offense at all. Offenses based on timing, rhythm, accuracy, and percision will not translate well.

IF he is going to succeed in the pros (big if), he will have to be on a team that lets him improvise and chuck it deep (like Steelers-Big Ben, or Panthers - Cam Newton).

You’ll have to be resigned to the fact that the offense will never be “run correctly,” and you have to accept a lot of on-the-fly decisions by the qb.

 

[Bugg]

13 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

I have no doubt that Jets' management would ignore three years of game film based on one 60 minute game.

Much as they spent months finding reasons not to pick Watson nor Mahomes. 

[Pointdexter]

1 hour ago, Jack Straw said:

 

Sincerely signed,
Christian Hackenberg


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

If Hackenberg participated in something like this he would have been exposed for the fraud he is, and furthermore it would have saved this franchise from making an epic mistake.