For the folks who have been here for awhile: "Worst ingame startegist? Herm or Bowles?"

[Beerfish]

Herm was incompetent but at least he 'played to win the game'

Bowles flat our quits mid game.  There is no comparison.  Bowles is far worse.

[kelly]

[SouthernJet]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

In reality it's between Holtz and Kotite as the worst HC the Jets have ever had. No other HC is even in the same zip code.

again its not a worst HC poll, it's a worst INGAME adjustment skills HC of all time

[Freemanm]

I don't think the two are even comparable. Herm got us to the playoffs in two of his three first seasons with the Jets with two different quarterbacks. Bowles has gotten us to the playoffs exactly zero times. Everyone here had no problem with Herm's in game strategies when we won two playoff games under him. He was a competent FG kicker away from getting us to the AFCCG. 

All Bowles has done is watch his team miss the playoffs in the final game in 2015, and reside over two 5-11 teams with that never changing, stupid sideways smirk on his face.  

There really is no comparison. Herm was actually a better coach than most people here give him credit for. 

[Bruce Harper]

I searched "Herm Edwards clock management" and came up with an article that listed Herm as the 10th worst clock manager of all time. 

 

I also found this article, which brought back some bad memories:

Questionable call, clock management haunt Jets

Nov 15, 2004

• Associated Press

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HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Somehow, Jets coach Herman Edwards
allowed his team to lose another game because of clock management
issues and questionable play calling.

Now they might have a hard time recovering.

 

 

Edwards did all he could in the offseason to avoid the same
problems that have plagued his teams throughout his four-year
tenure. He assigned assistant coach Dick Curl to concentrate solely
on time management, and drew up countless late-game scenarios for
how to handle the clock in any situation.

Little good that did in a 20-17 overtime loss to Baltimore.

Perhaps even more galling than a failed halfback option pass
that let Baltimore back into the game was the way the Jets and
Quincy Carter botched their chance to win it in regulation by
mismanaging the clock.

Edwards took responsibility for it all, covering for the
mistakes Carter made.

"I really let the team down," Edwards said. "I didn't do a
good enough job coaching. I put our team in a bad situation, in
certain situations, and really cost them the game at the end of the
day."

Carter, who started his first game for the Jets in place of the
injured Chad Pennington, shouldered none of the blame. He took a
limited number of questions Monday and brushed aside a reporter who
had one final query while being escorted out of the locker room.

"We can sit here on Monday and say would've should've,
could've, but we didn't get the job done and that's the bottom
line," Carter said. "I don't care how you say it or what finger
you point in or what direction you go. As a team, we didn't get the
job done."

The first poor decision came with 1:56 to go before halftime,
with the Jets up 14-0. Offensive coordinator Paul Hackett took an
uncharacteristic risk, calling the halfback pass by LaMont Jordan.

Edwards had a chance to veto the call, but allowed it to unfold.
It ended in failure. Jordan tried to throw the ball away, but
instead Ed Reed intercepted. Baltimore went on to score 17 straight
points.

The Jets were clearly deflated, but had one final chance to make
things right. That is when things imploded.

Trailing 17-14, Carter got a first down on a draw play to the
Ravens 4. But the Jets ticked off 32 seconds before the ball was
snapped because they had to get the play in and switch personnel
groups. When Jordan took the handoff on first-and-goal, 18 seconds
remained.

Edwards had no problem wasting all that time, because the Jets
had two timeouts left.

"We knew we had enough time to get three plays off," Edwards
said.

Wrong. The Jets called timeout with 14 seconds left after Jordan
ran for 1 yard. Carter then threw incomplete on second-and-goal.
Eight seconds remained, enough time to try to score a touchdown.

But Edwards said the play call got down to Carter too late.
Carter seemed to have no sense of urgency. When Carter broke the
huddle, Edwards realized there would be no time to get the play
off, so he used their final timeout.

Edwards never thought about taking a delay-of-game penalty to
save the timeout and push the Jets to third-and-8 with a chance to
throw into the end zone. Instead, they kicked a field goal to send
the game into overtime.

"We have to get the play into Quincy faster," Edwards said.
"There was 1 second on the play clock when I looked up there. I
wasn't going to let the clock go down, put him in third-and-8, I
wasn't going to do that to Quincy. We have to do a better job."

Especially with Pennington out again this week; he could miss
another two weeks with a strained right rotator cuff. Last year,
the Jets went into a nosedive when Pennington got injured in the
preseason. They have to hope this loss is not the start of another
freefall.

"This is the most devastating loss we have had this season,"
Curtis Martin said. "There is a question mark, so that is what
really makes this one difficult."

[SouthernJet]

13 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

I searched "Herm Edwards clock management" and came up with an article that listed Herm as the 10th worst clock manager of all time. 

 

I also found this article, which brought back some bad memories:

Questionable call, clock management haunt Jets

Nov 15, 2004

• Associated Press

•  
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Facebook Messenger
• Pinterest
• Email
• print
• comment

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- Somehow, Jets coach Herman Edwards
allowed his team to lose another game because of clock management
issues and questionable play calling.

Now they might have a hard time recovering.

 

 

Edwards did all he could in the offseason to avoid the same
problems that have plagued his teams throughout his four-year
tenure. He assigned assistant coach Dick Curl to concentrate solely
on time management, and drew up countless late-game scenarios for
how to handle the clock in any situation.

Little good that did in a 20-17 overtime loss to Baltimore.

Perhaps even more galling than a failed halfback option pass
that let Baltimore back into the game was the way the Jets and
Quincy Carter botched their chance to win it in regulation by
mismanaging the clock.

Edwards took responsibility for it all, covering for the
mistakes Carter made.

"I really let the team down," Edwards said. "I didn't do a
good enough job coaching. I put our team in a bad situation, in
certain situations, and really cost them the game at the end of the
day."

Carter, who started his first game for the Jets in place of the
injured Chad Pennington, shouldered none of the blame. He took a
limited number of questions Monday and brushed aside a reporter who
had one final query while being escorted out of the locker room.

"We can sit here on Monday and say would've should've,
could've, but we didn't get the job done and that's the bottom
line," Carter said. "I don't care how you say it or what finger
you point in or what direction you go. As a team, we didn't get the
job done."

The first poor decision came with 1:56 to go before halftime,
with the Jets up 14-0. Offensive coordinator Paul Hackett took an
uncharacteristic risk, calling the halfback pass by LaMont Jordan.

Edwards had a chance to veto the call, but allowed it to unfold.
It ended in failure. Jordan tried to throw the ball away, but
instead Ed Reed intercepted. Baltimore went on to score 17 straight
points.

The Jets were clearly deflated, but had one final chance to make
things right. That is when things imploded.

Trailing 17-14, Carter got a first down on a draw play to the
Ravens 4. But the Jets ticked off 32 seconds before the ball was
snapped because they had to get the play in and switch personnel
groups. When Jordan took the handoff on first-and-goal, 18 seconds
remained.

Edwards had no problem wasting all that time, because the Jets
had two timeouts left.

"We knew we had enough time to get three plays off," Edwards
said.

Wrong. The Jets called timeout with 14 seconds left after Jordan
ran for 1 yard. Carter then threw incomplete on second-and-goal.
Eight seconds remained, enough time to try to score a touchdown.

But Edwards said the play call got down to Carter too late.
Carter seemed to have no sense of urgency. When Carter broke the
huddle, Edwards realized there would be no time to get the play
off, so he used their final timeout.

Edwards never thought about taking a delay-of-game penalty to
save the timeout and push the Jets to third-and-8 with a chance to
throw into the end zone. Instead, they kicked a field goal to send
the game into overtime.

"We have to get the play into Quincy faster," Edwards said.
"There was 1 second on the play clock when I looked up there. I
wasn't going to let the clock go down, put him in third-and-8, I
wasn't going to do that to Quincy. We have to do a better job."

Especially with Pennington out again this week; he could miss
another two weeks with a strained right rotator cuff. Last year,
the Jets went into a nosedive when Pennington got injured in the
preseason. They have to hope this loss is not the start of another
freefall.

"This is the most devastating loss we have had this season,"
Curtis Martin said. "There is a question mark, so that is what
really makes this one difficult."

Good research, BUT, aren't we all in enough pain already as Jets fans

[nyjunc]

every HC makes questionable clock decisions from time to time, the stuff about Herm was overblown.

 

and remember how he was bashed for taking a knee in Pitt to set up a GW FG after moments earlier our K missed one from 4 yards further out?  Possibly the greatest football coach of all time did the exact same thing the other night in the CFB Championship game.  it did get the same results but the point is it wasn't a crazy move by Herm.  the K had to make the kick and he failed.

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, nyjunc said:

how many games did we blow late? There weren't many of them.

 

The Miami game says hi

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, Freemanm said:

I don't think the two are even comparable. Herm got us to the playoffs in two of his three first seasons with the Jets with two different quarterbacks. Bowles has gotten us to the playoffs exactly zero times. Everyone here had no problem with Herm's in game strategies when we won two playoff games under him. He was a competent FG kicker away from getting us to the AFCCG. 

All Bowles has done is watch his team miss the playoffs in the final game in 2015, and reside over two 5-11 teams with that never changing, stupid sideways smirk on his face.  

There really is no comparison. Herm was actually a better coach than most people here give him credit for. 

Bowles is our worst coach since Kotite.

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The Miami game says hi

I was talking about Herm. 

we obviously blew a ton of games late under Bowles including a 14 pt 4th qtr lead at Miami- something we hadn't done since Kotite wa sour HC.  Bowles did many things a Jets HC hasn't done since Kotite.

[T0mShane]

Herm was terrible, but coasted through on the back of a roster that Parcells left him. At least Bowles has the excuse of inheriting a legitimately bad team. 

[Harlemnite1]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:18 AM, Bruce Harper said:

I think people here have short memories.  Herm was among the worst time managers that I have ever seen.

Herm problem was managing the clock and had to have a coach do it for him. He talked a great game but didn't back it up. Bowles is in a coma for 4 quarters. So Herm wins this one easily.

[Harlemnite1]

19 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

In reality it's between Holtz and Kotite as the worst HC the Jets have ever had. No other HC is even in the same zip code.

I agree but you can add a few like Charley Winner and Joe Walton. I hope we don't have another situation like Walton. He stayed like 7 years and was terrible. They just rewarded Bowles for losing and you have these Bowles apologist chiming in that he needs to stay around. If he has less wins than losses by game 6 he needs to be fired. Tired of hearing they play hard and he's a nice guy crap.

[Savage69]

On 1/8/2018 at 7:09 PM, FidelioJet said:

Kotite would take the cake as worst HC - no question in my mind.  Herm won playoff games.  Bowles has won 10 games.

Even Kotite won a playoff game with the Eagles and had a 11-5 season..

[UntouchableCrew]

Bowles hasn't been great but Herm was easily the worst gameday coach the Jets have had in my lifetime. Clueless when it came to game management and not big on adjustments. Bowles winning this poll is recency bias, IMO.

[rangerous]

when was the last time the jets showed any urgency with 2 minutes left in the half or the game when on offense?  i can't recall.  i can't really chose between herm or bowles.  bowles is too fresh and herm is ancient history. and let's not forget rex wasn't exactly a great game manager either.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Bowles hasn't been great but Herm was easily the worst gameday coach the Jets have had in my lifetime. Clueless when it came to game management and not big on adjustments. Bowles winning this poll is recency bias, IMO.

This!  And I was going to use the phrase "recency bias" in my reply as well.

(and I should mention that I'm no fan of Bowles).

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Herm was terrible, but coasted through on the back of a roster that Parcells left him. At least Bowles has the excuse of inheriting a legitimately bad team. 

I'm not even convinced Herm was much more than just a figurehead.  His coordinators did the coaching.  His job was to motivate the players and talk to the media.  But the Jets made the playoffs with him and even won a playoff game (San Diego) and easily could've beaten Pittsburgh that year.  So whatever they were doing did kind of work.

[Fantasy Island]

On 1/8/2018 at 6:56 PM, Sonny Werblin said:

So, none of the white HCs in the running for worst of?

#MeToo

[Dcat]

On 1/8/2018 at 8:12 PM, peebag said:

I've never seen a team quit so many times on a coach like I have with Bowles.  

Yup.  And Ive never seen a head coach who so obviously quit games like Bowles did this season.  Bowles is horrendous.  The Jets are going nowhere with him.  

[shevys]

It’s like picking the pit or the pendulum. 

[jgb]

Man it's a tough call. Herm hired a special Assistant Coach of Time Management (Dick Curl) and maybe Bowles should too. We could also give Rex an honorable mention in this department. He called a TO on the first offensive play of the game once in his last season here. Seriously.

Even coaches who are the fastest thinkers on the fly, all they have to do is ask themselves, "if I was confronted with the game plan I just created for this week's game, how would I react?" And then devise a counter to that reaction to have in his bag of tricks for Sunday. But I guess that's why I am a genius.

[j4jets]

Bowles. I don’t think Herm was nearly as bad as Bowles. And I don’t think Spermy wasn’t bad. 

[New York Mick]

I don’t remember the last coach we had that did make good decisions especially on offense. 

[Sonny Werblin]

7 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

#MeToo

#WeBeToo

[Philc1]

On 1/9/2018 at 9:48 AM, jmat321 said:

Still Herm had the balls to pull his Vet and play the young QB.  I remember Pennington looked shaky in preseason and media was reporting that he was  very inconsistent in practice that year.  Knowing what I know now, I doubt Pennington would have gotten a shot under Bowles that year.

Except Chad looked good in TC and preseason while Petty was mediocre and Hack was throwing footballs at reporters heads

[jmat321]

8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Except Chad looked good in TC and preseason while Petty was mediocre and Hack was throwing footballs at reporters heads

Not the way I remember it.  I remember the media portraying Pennington as being very inconsistent in training camp and practice, didn’t have the confidence of the team.  Once Chad took over, there was this general attitude that people were shocked on how good he looked in live games, even his own teammates.  Maybe I’m losing it, but I just remember the general consensus that Chad was a “gamer” and just one of those guys who didn’t always practice well.  

[ScarletKnight89]

Has to be Bowles. Hopefully he can improve but right now you have to look at the results.

Herm's teams won...to a certain extent. He may have had much better teams and one could argue that he should have done better than he did but Bowles has shown me nothing as in game coach.

I do believe Bowles is a good motivator and gets guys to play for him but his in game decisions are dreadful really starting with that Steelers game in 2016. He basically gave up on games this year as well.

[ScarletKnight89]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:48 AM, jmat321 said:

Still Herm had the balls to pull his Vet and play the young QB.  I remember Pennington looked shaky in preseason and media was reporting that he was  very inconsistent in practice that year.  Knowing what I know now, I doubt Pennington would have gotten a shot under Bowles that year.

This was my initial thought as well. But to be fair to Bowles he didn't have a first round pick QB sitting on his bench. And I would take Herm over Bowles at this point. But I have to be fair regarding this. From all accounts Hack is absolutely awful and Petty was a 4th round draft pick. He did pull Fitz for Geno last year whose better than the 2 guys he had sitting behind McCown this year (even though that's not saying much). Although he did it to late and Geno got hurt.